Why Derek Smart is right about Star Citizen - His facts and why SC is likely to fail

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Comments

  • ScoliozScolioz Member UncommonPosts: 50
    edited September 23
    If you spend 150 million dollars developing any kind of software and it still isn't done.. There's fraud and scamming going on. End of story. It's just common sense. This game is nothing more than a game designed to be a big money pit collecting as much money from suckers as possible before it just goes bankrupt.  If a company needs crow funding to build their product then they are losers who could never secure real investors who would never give them money without meeting deadlines and milestones.  EA and Ubi Soft don't crow fund their projects.. because their successful companies that are not managed by broke criminals.



    Post edited by Scolioz on
    rpmcmurphyGdemamiMaxBacon
  • Tiamat64Tiamat64 Member RarePosts: 899
    Scolioz said:
    If you spend 150 million dollars developing any kind of software and it still isn't done.. There's fraud and scamming going on. End of story. It's just common sense.

    To be honest, I'm pretty sure gross incompetence has been the cause for failures around that size in the past, too.
    ArglebargleKefoAsm0deus
  • SirAgravaineSirAgravaine Member UncommonPosts: 321
    edited September 23
    Reading Derek Smart's assessment of Star Citizen is like reading a Fox New article on... well...anything...most of it is just hyperbole.
    Post edited by SirAgravaine on
    SedrynTyrosMrMelGibsonTalonsin
  • donjuanagaindonjuanagain New Orleans, LAMember UncommonPosts: 134
    Ive probably spent close to $800 on this game and I have no intentions of asking for a penny back.
  • RhoklawRhoklaw Ft. Bliss, TXMember EpicPosts: 5,235
    I don't listen to DS myself, even though I've called SC a failure as well. It is obvious CR has no realistic expectations and is a complete visionary. That makes him a huge liability. I believe CR is great at coming up with fun and interesting ways to making SC the best game ever, but he has no concept of financial management. What better reason to put your wife and brother in key positions to prevent people from telling you to shut up and focus on the core mechanics and actually make a working game.

    For instance, in the PU, how many star systems has CRI or CIG completed? 10, 20 or 30 even? Nope. Just 1. At this rate, you won't see this game launching before 2020. Considering they have more important projects to work on, such as taking a crap in outer space.

    As much as I hound this game as a complete train wreck waiting to happen, at the same time, I wish it to become a reality. I just don't see it happening with CR at the helm.

  • TealaTeala SomewhereMember RarePosts: 7,593
    It's crap post like the one the OP has started that has pretty much kept me away from MMORPG.com - this post does nothing but promote Derek Smart and his agenda.  It serves no other purpose and one other little truth - DS has predicted the SC failing almost since day one - guess what OP SC is still on track and getting made and the game development has not collapsed yet.


    Saxx0ngervaise1MaxBaconMrMelGibsonExcession
  • RhoklawRhoklaw Ft. Bliss, TXMember EpicPosts: 5,235
    Teala said:
    It's crap post like the one the OP has started that has pretty much kept me away from MMORPG.com - this post does nothing but promote Derek Smart and his agenda.  It serves no other purpose and one other little truth - DS has predicted the SC failing almost since day one - guess what OP SC is still on track and getting made and the game development has not collapsed yet.


    Uhm, technically speaking, SC is NOT on track, but that doesn't even concern me. I'm more concerned about what they spend their money on.
    ScotchUp

  • SedrynTyrosSedrynTyros USMember EpicPosts: 1,938
    Rhoklaw said:
    Teala said:
    It's crap post like the one the OP has started that has pretty much kept me away from MMORPG.com - this post does nothing but promote Derek Smart and his agenda.  It serves no other purpose and one other little truth - DS has predicted the SC failing almost since day one - guess what OP SC is still on track and getting made and the game development has not collapsed yet.


    Uhm, technically speaking, SC is NOT on track, but that doesn't even concern me. I'm more concerned about what they spend their money on.
    Why are you concerned about that?  It's not your money, it's their money.  If the game fails to be completed, then it makes sense to criticize expenditures after that happens.  But while the game is still being made, sticking our nose in their business is about as useful as pissing in the wind.
    MrMelGibsonAsm0deusMaxBacon
  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Matrix, NYMember RarePosts: 2,198
    Rhoklaw said:
    Teala said:
    It's crap post like the one the OP has started that has pretty much kept me away from MMORPG.com - this post does nothing but promote Derek Smart and his agenda.  It serves no other purpose and one other little truth - DS has predicted the SC failing almost since day one - guess what OP SC is still on track and getting made and the game development has not collapsed yet.


    Uhm, technically speaking, SC is NOT on track, but that doesn't even concern me. I'm more concerned about what they spend their money on.
    Yeah, and they keep adding features instead of working with what they got. I do remember them saying they'd add features post-release, so why can't they do that and finish the game?

    They seem too focused on getting more money, so much that they do is for additional funding. But they already got a lot of funding, the most of any kickstarting project. Tells me its not being managed correctly, which Robert IS well known for not managing things well in the past

    As for Teala's post. I guess he gets triggered when anyone has a different opinion than himself lol. That is the good thing about MMORPG.com, you can have a variety of opinions. Not like reddit or most other forums/sites where you get banned or warned or severely hated on if you don't agree with the majority on the site/forum. MMORPG.com allows for a variety of opinions and beliefs. 
    HeraseMaxBacon

    My adult gaming and mods website (various games, adult mods, screenshots, stories and other games I play(ed) 

    http://nsfwgaming.wixsite.com/adultgamingandmods

    And my Youtube channel (for nature/relaxation/meditation videos)

    https://www.youtube.com/user/Vendayn


  • WalkinGlennWalkinGlenn Member UncommonPosts: 145
    Derek "fake news" Smart..... lol. He's made some good points but mostly just BS.
  • KefoKefo London, ONMember EpicPosts: 3,089
    Rhoklaw said:
    Teala said:
    It's crap post like the one the OP has started that has pretty much kept me away from MMORPG.com - this post does nothing but promote Derek Smart and his agenda.  It serves no other purpose and one other little truth - DS has predicted the SC failing almost since day one - guess what OP SC is still on track and getting made and the game development has not collapsed yet.


    Uhm, technically speaking, SC is NOT on track, but that doesn't even concern me. I'm more concerned about what they spend their money on.
    Why are you concerned about that?  It's not your money, it's their money.  If the game fails to be completed, then it makes sense to criticize expenditures after that happens.  But while the game is still being made, sticking our nose in their business is about as useful as pissing in the wind.
    Yeah why should the backers want accountability with the money they are giving CR, who has failed at running a game studio in the past? Better to ask questions when it's too late right?
    TheScavengerMaxBacon
  • Asm0deusAsm0deus BaatorMember RarePosts: 2,036
    Kefo said:
    Rhoklaw said:
    Teala said:
    It's crap post like the one the OP has started that has pretty much kept me away from MMORPG.com - this post does nothing but promote Derek Smart and his agenda.  It serves no other purpose and one other little truth - DS has predicted the SC failing almost since day one - guess what OP SC is still on track and getting made and the game development has not collapsed yet.


    Uhm, technically speaking, SC is NOT on track, but that doesn't even concern me. I'm more concerned about what they spend their money on.
    Why are you concerned about that?  It's not your money, it's their money.  If the game fails to be completed, then it makes sense to criticize expenditures after that happens.  But while the game is still being made, sticking our nose in their business is about as useful as pissing in the wind.
    Yeah why should the backers want accountability with the money they are giving CR, who has failed at running a game studio in the past? Better to ask questions when it's too late right?
    There a difference between accountability and wanting them to open their books to the public.  As much as I hate some of the thing CIG has done they have shown enough "accountability", via progress on the game, that you or even KS can't do anything or claim scam etc etc.

    The game is being made, its showing progress.. maybe not how you or I would like but then that a risk we take when we "give" our money away in a KS funded project.

    Bottom line is we didn't invest anything and we are not investors thus we have zero right to "see their books" as most people screaming for "accountability" really want.


    MaxBaconMrMelGibsonbarasawa

    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.

    case: Coolermaster HAF932
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  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Matrix, NYMember RarePosts: 2,198
    edited September 24
    Asm0deus said:
    Kefo said:
    Rhoklaw said:
    Teala said:
    It's crap post like the one the OP has started that has pretty much kept me away from MMORPG.com - this post does nothing but promote Derek Smart and his agenda.  It serves no other purpose and one other little truth - DS has predicted the SC failing almost since day one - guess what OP SC is still on track and getting made and the game development has not collapsed yet.


    Uhm, technically speaking, SC is NOT on track, but that doesn't even concern me. I'm more concerned about what they spend their money on.
    Why are you concerned about that?  It's not your money, it's their money.  If the game fails to be completed, then it makes sense to criticize expenditures after that happens.  But while the game is still being made, sticking our nose in their business is about as useful as pissing in the wind.
    Yeah why should the backers want accountability with the money they are giving CR, who has failed at running a game studio in the past? Better to ask questions when it's too late right?
    There a difference between accountability and wanting them to open their books to the public.  As much as I hate some of the thing CIG has done they have shown enough "accountability", via progress on the game, that you or even KS can't do anything or claim scam etc etc.

    The game is being made, its showing progress.. maybe not how you or I would like but then that a risk we take when we "give" our money away in a KS funded project.

    Bottom line is we didn't invest anything and we are not investors thus we have zero right to "see their books" as most people screaming for "accountability" really want.


    actually, for those donating to kickstarters, they ARE investors. They are investing into a game or product, similar to when the company seeks outside funding to publish/help fund a game/product

    However, buying ships does not make one an investor but someone just buying a ship like buying a cash shop product. But for those who donated to Star Citizen's Kickstarter, they are all investors. Without that money, Star Citizen would be very different today. 
    Post edited by TheScavenger on
    MaxBaconMrMelGibson

    My adult gaming and mods website (various games, adult mods, screenshots, stories and other games I play(ed) 

    http://nsfwgaming.wixsite.com/adultgamingandmods

    And my Youtube channel (for nature/relaxation/meditation videos)

    https://www.youtube.com/user/Vendayn


  • KefoKefo London, ONMember EpicPosts: 3,089
    Asm0deus said:
    Kefo said:
    Rhoklaw said:
    Teala said:
    It's crap post like the one the OP has started that has pretty much kept me away from MMORPG.com - this post does nothing but promote Derek Smart and his agenda.  It serves no other purpose and one other little truth - DS has predicted the SC failing almost since day one - guess what OP SC is still on track and getting made and the game development has not collapsed yet.


    Uhm, technically speaking, SC is NOT on track, but that doesn't even concern me. I'm more concerned about what they spend their money on.
    Why are you concerned about that?  It's not your money, it's their money.  If the game fails to be completed, then it makes sense to criticize expenditures after that happens.  But while the game is still being made, sticking our nose in their business is about as useful as pissing in the wind.
    Yeah why should the backers want accountability with the money they are giving CR, who has failed at running a game studio in the past? Better to ask questions when it's too late right?
    There a difference between accountability and wanting them to open their books to the public.  As much as I hate some of the thing CIG has done they have shown enough "accountability", via progress on the game, that you or even KS can't do anything or claim scam etc etc.

    The game is being made, its showing progress.. maybe not how you or I would like but then that a risk we take when we "give" our money away in a KS funded project.

    Bottom line is we didn't invest anything and we are not investors thus we have zero right to "see their books" as most people screaming for "accountability" really want.


    I never asked them to open their books and showing progress at a glacial pace is not accountability. If they were delivering huge chunks of the game in steady updates then I could get behind the game is being made so there's your accountability statement but it's not.
  • RenoakuRenoaku Member RarePosts: 2,363
    Can I start a kickstarter and people just donate me 1 Million Dollars, and if they are feeling good donate me possibly 3 Million I will make sure it a life time lol...

    Generally Speaking I lost my faith in Star Citizen its why I never backed above $30 in the game there has been too many changes from what the original game was made out to sound like and even free lancer didn't cost $150 million dollars to make not saying I like the other game made by Derrick either because it feels to Generic for me to even want to play based off everything I have seen but maybe he is right...
  • Asm0deusAsm0deus BaatorMember RarePosts: 2,036
    edited September 24
    Kefo said:
    Asm0deus said:
    Kefo said:
    Rhoklaw said:
    Teala said:
    It's crap post like the one the OP has started that has pretty much kept me away from MMORPG.com - this post does nothing but promote Derek Smart and his agenda.  It serves no other purpose and one other little truth - DS has predicted the SC failing almost since day one - guess what OP SC is still on track and getting made and the game development has not collapsed yet.


    Uhm, technically speaking, SC is NOT on track, but that doesn't even concern me. I'm more concerned about what they spend their money on.
    Why are you concerned about that?  It's not your money, it's their money.  If the game fails to be completed, then it makes sense to criticize expenditures after that happens.  But while the game is still being made, sticking our nose in their business is about as useful as pissing in the wind.
    Yeah why should the backers want accountability with the money they are giving CR, who has failed at running a game studio in the past? Better to ask questions when it's too late right?
    There a difference between accountability and wanting them to open their books to the public.  As much as I hate some of the thing CIG has done they have shown enough "accountability", via progress on the game, that you or even KS can't do anything or claim scam etc etc.

    The game is being made, its showing progress.. maybe not how you or I would like but then that a risk we take when we "give" our money away in a KS funded project.

    Bottom line is we didn't invest anything and we are not investors thus we have zero right to "see their books" as most people screaming for "accountability" really want.


    I never asked them to open their books and showing progress at a glacial pace is not accountability. If they were delivering huge chunks of the game in steady updates then I could get behind the game is being made so there's your accountability statement but it's not.
    But it is, it's just not going as fast or how YOU want it to, but guess what that's too bad ask for refund.

    Like I said most people say "accountability" when they want to know what they are doing with the money IE see the books.    Not going to happen as unlike what scavenger is saying when you back a KS you are not an investors you don't get shares or reports on how the money you "invested", the proper word is "pledged", is doing etc yadada.

    You pledge in the hopes a game you think looks interesting will work out and be created... that's it and that's all you're entitled to. 

    You don't get to tell them how to run their project or how to spend their money. If they decide the devs working on the game need rolls of toilet paper that costs 100$ a roll cause it's super duper uber soft for the bungholes that's their prerogative not yours and you have nothing to say about it.

    Now it might be stupid, it might be irresponsible or incompetent but you have no right to tell them they HAVE to do different.

    People and even articles use the term investment when talking about KS but it's not.

    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/investment

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investor










    Post edited by Asm0deus on
    MaxBacongervaise1MrMelGibson

    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.

    case: Coolermaster HAF932
    PSU: Antec EA 750watt
    RAM: 4x2g G-SKILL DDR3-1600mhz 9-9-9-24
    Mb:Gigabyte GA-P55-UD4P
    CPU: i5-750 @4ghz
    GPU: gtx msi N760 TF 2GD5/OC
    cooling: Noctua NH-D14
    storage: seagate 600 240GB SSD, 500GB x7200rpm HDD


  • mgilbrtsnmgilbrtsn belleville, ILMember RarePosts: 3,055
    There are so many glass half full people on these forums, that I can barely stand it.
    JamesGoblin

    Concentrate on enjoying yourself, and not on why I shouldn't enjoy myself.

  • Asm0deusAsm0deus BaatorMember RarePosts: 2,036
    Renoaku said:
    Can I start a kickstarter and people just donate me 1 Million Dollars, and if they are feeling good donate me possibly 3 Million I will make sure it a life time lol...

    Generally Speaking I lost my faith in Star Citizen its why I never backed above $30 in the game there has been too many changes from what the original game was made out to sound like and even free lancer didn't cost $150 million dollars to make not saying I like the other game made by Derrick either because it feels to Generic for me to even want to play based off everything I have seen but maybe he is right...
    I would suggest gofundme worked for this guy lolz https://www.gofundme.com/fried-chicken-addiction
    MrMelGibson

    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.

    case: Coolermaster HAF932
    PSU: Antec EA 750watt
    RAM: 4x2g G-SKILL DDR3-1600mhz 9-9-9-24
    Mb:Gigabyte GA-P55-UD4P
    CPU: i5-750 @4ghz
    GPU: gtx msi N760 TF 2GD5/OC
    cooling: Noctua NH-D14
    storage: seagate 600 240GB SSD, 500GB x7200rpm HDD


  • KefoKefo London, ONMember EpicPosts: 3,089
    Asm0deus said:
    Kefo said:
    Asm0deus said:
    Kefo said:
    Rhoklaw said:
    Teala said:
    It's crap post like the one the OP has started that has pretty much kept me away from MMORPG.com - this post does nothing but promote Derek Smart and his agenda.  It serves no other purpose and one other little truth - DS has predicted the SC failing almost since day one - guess what OP SC is still on track and getting made and the game development has not collapsed yet.


    Uhm, technically speaking, SC is NOT on track, but that doesn't even concern me. I'm more concerned about what they spend their money on.
    Why are you concerned about that?  It's not your money, it's their money.  If the game fails to be completed, then it makes sense to criticize expenditures after that happens.  But while the game is still being made, sticking our nose in their business is about as useful as pissing in the wind.
    Yeah why should the backers want accountability with the money they are giving CR, who has failed at running a game studio in the past? Better to ask questions when it's too late right?
    There a difference between accountability and wanting them to open their books to the public.  As much as I hate some of the thing CIG has done they have shown enough "accountability", via progress on the game, that you or even KS can't do anything or claim scam etc etc.

    The game is being made, its showing progress.. maybe not how you or I would like but then that a risk we take when we "give" our money away in a KS funded project.

    Bottom line is we didn't invest anything and we are not investors thus we have zero right to "see their books" as most people screaming for "accountability" really want.


    I never asked them to open their books and showing progress at a glacial pace is not accountability. If they were delivering huge chunks of the game in steady updates then I could get behind the game is being made so there's your accountability statement but it's not.
    But it is, it's just not going as fast or how YOU want it to, but guess what that's too bad ask for refund.

    Like I said most people say "accountability" when they want to know what they are doing with the money IE see the books.    Not going to happen as unlike what scavenger is saying when you back a KS you are not an investors you don't get shares or reports on how the money you "invested", the proper word is "pledged", is doing etc yadada.

    You pledge in the hopes a game you think looks interesting will work out and be created... that's it and that's all you're entitled to. 

    You don't get to tell them how to run their project or how to spend their money. If they decide the devs working on the game need rolls of toilet paper that costs 100$ a roll cause it's super duper uber soft for the bungholes that's their prerogative not yours and you have nothing to say about it.

    Now it might be stupid, it might be irresponsible or incompetent but you have no right to tell them they HAVE to do different.

    People and even articles use the term investment when talking about KS but it's not.

    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/investment

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investor










    Again not a backer (which im sure you will use in some argument against me lol but my alarm bells were going off with this project) but again not asking for them to open their books. I'm also not telling them how to spend their money so if they want to spend 100 dollars per roll of toilet paper then that should be made clear so backers, potential or otherwise, can make a informed decision if they should grow money at a project that likes to waste backer money.

    Also technically we can see into the company's books in a limited capacity via the UK filings since you don't have the option to hide over there and we know that Erin is taking a massive salary of 190k GBP which seems a little in excess and makes you wonder what CR is paying himself and his wife per year.

    And backers do have the power to tell them to do differently but it just means they stop opening their wallets and throwing cash at CR whenever he shows off a new "gameplay" video that is more then likely just marketing fluff meant to drive hype
  • Asm0deusAsm0deus BaatorMember RarePosts: 2,036
    edited September 25
    Kefo said:
    Asm0deus said:
    Kefo said:
    Asm0deus said:
    Kefo said:
    Rhoklaw said:
    Teala said:
    It's crap post like the one the OP has started that has pretty much kept me away from MMORPG.com - this post does nothing but promote Derek Smart and his agenda.  It serves no other purpose and one other little truth - DS has predicted the SC failing almost since day one - guess what OP SC is still on track and getting made and the game development has not collapsed yet.


    Uhm, technically speaking, SC is NOT on track, but that doesn't even concern me. I'm more concerned about what they spend their money on.
    Why are you concerned about that?  It's not your money, it's their money.  If the game fails to be completed, then it makes sense to criticize expenditures after that happens.  But while the game is still being made, sticking our nose in their business is about as useful as pissing in the wind.
    Yeah why should the backers want accountability with the money they are giving CR, who has failed at running a game studio in the past? Better to ask questions when it's too late right?
    There a difference between accountability and wanting them to open their books to the public.  As much as I hate some of the thing CIG has done they have shown enough "accountability", via progress on the game, that you or even KS can't do anything or claim scam etc etc.

    The game is being made, its showing progress.. maybe not how you or I would like but then that a risk we take when we "give" our money away in a KS funded project.

    Bottom line is we didn't invest anything and we are not investors thus we have zero right to "see their books" as most people screaming for "accountability" really want.


    I never asked them to open their books and showing progress at a glacial pace is not accountability. If they were delivering huge chunks of the game in steady updates then I could get behind the game is being made so there's your accountability statement but it's not.
    But it is, it's just not going as fast or how YOU want it to, but guess what that's too bad ask for refund.

    Like I said most people say "accountability" when they want to know what they are doing with the money IE see the books.    Not going to happen as unlike what scavenger is saying when you back a KS you are not an investors you don't get shares or reports on how the money you "invested", the proper word is "pledged", is doing etc yadada.

    You pledge in the hopes a game you think looks interesting will work out and be created... that's it and that's all you're entitled to. 

    You don't get to tell them how to run their project or how to spend their money. If they decide the devs working on the game need rolls of toilet paper that costs 100$ a roll cause it's super duper uber soft for the bungholes that's their prerogative not yours and you have nothing to say about it.

    Now it might be stupid, it might be irresponsible or incompetent but you have no right to tell them they HAVE to do different.

    People and even articles use the term investment when talking about KS but it's not.

    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/investment

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investor










    Again not a backer (which im sure you will use in some argument against me lol but my alarm bells were going off with this project) but again not asking for them to open their books. I'm also not telling them how to spend their money so if they want to spend 100 dollars per roll of toilet paper then that should be made clear so backers, potential or otherwise, can make a informed decision if they should grow money at a project that likes to waste backer money.

    Also technically we can see into the company's books in a limited capacity via the UK filings since you don't have the option to hide over there and we know that Erin is taking a massive salary of 190k GBP which seems a little in excess and makes you wonder what CR is paying himself and his wife per year.

    And backers do have the power to tell them to do differently but it just means they stop opening their wallets and throwing cash at CR whenever he shows off a new "gameplay" video that is more then likely just marketing fluff meant to drive hype
    Nothing personal against you here, I don't care how you spend your money or not. My replies is just me saying the extent of anyone authority, mine included, when pledging a game on KS is pretty much limited to asking for a refund.

    Also when I say open the books I mean open the books, their UK filings have diddly to do with this. Open the books is opening the books to see how they spend or earn  on XYZ.  Which is essentially what you are asking for.

    CIG does not have to tell you how much he pays his employees or himself or how much the yearly toilet paper cost is etc etc ad nauseam.

    People putting projects on KS don't need to make anything clear other than the project they propose.

    Instead of feeling entitled to tell someone running a project that they need to "make clear" what they are going to do with the money in terms of how much this and that will cost and how much they will pay for xyz people pledging should make themselves clear that any money pledged is lost and gone down the toilet regardless of if it fails or not or even if it succeeds and it's a totally different game.

    People give money to a KS or games like CIG with the mindset that they are entitled to something like they are investors or shareholders far far too often.
    Post edited by Asm0deus on

    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.

    case: Coolermaster HAF932
    PSU: Antec EA 750watt
    RAM: 4x2g G-SKILL DDR3-1600mhz 9-9-9-24
    Mb:Gigabyte GA-P55-UD4P
    CPU: i5-750 @4ghz
    GPU: gtx msi N760 TF 2GD5/OC
    cooling: Noctua NH-D14
    storage: seagate 600 240GB SSD, 500GB x7200rpm HDD


  • KefoKefo London, ONMember EpicPosts: 3,089
    Asm0deus said:
    Kefo said:
    Asm0deus said:
    Kefo said:
    Asm0deus said:
    Kefo said:
    Rhoklaw said:
    Teala said:
    It's crap post like the one the OP has started that has pretty much kept me away from MMORPG.com - this post does nothing but promote Derek Smart and his agenda.  It serves no other purpose and one other little truth - DS has predicted the SC failing almost since day one - guess what OP SC is still on track and getting made and the game development has not collapsed yet.


    Uhm, technically speaking, SC is NOT on track, but that doesn't even concern me. I'm more concerned about what they spend their money on.
    Why are you concerned about that?  It's not your money, it's their money.  If the game fails to be completed, then it makes sense to criticize expenditures after that happens.  But while the game is still being made, sticking our nose in their business is about as useful as pissing in the wind.
    Yeah why should the backers want accountability with the money they are giving CR, who has failed at running a game studio in the past? Better to ask questions when it's too late right?
    There a difference between accountability and wanting them to open their books to the public.  As much as I hate some of the thing CIG has done they have shown enough "accountability", via progress on the game, that you or even KS can't do anything or claim scam etc etc.

    The game is being made, its showing progress.. maybe not how you or I would like but then that a risk we take when we "give" our money away in a KS funded project.

    Bottom line is we didn't invest anything and we are not investors thus we have zero right to "see their books" as most people screaming for "accountability" really want.


    I never asked them to open their books and showing progress at a glacial pace is not accountability. If they were delivering huge chunks of the game in steady updates then I could get behind the game is being made so there's your accountability statement but it's not.
    But it is, it's just not going as fast or how YOU want it to, but guess what that's too bad ask for refund.

    Like I said most people say "accountability" when they want to know what they are doing with the money IE see the books.    Not going to happen as unlike what scavenger is saying when you back a KS you are not an investors you don't get shares or reports on how the money you "invested", the proper word is "pledged", is doing etc yadada.

    You pledge in the hopes a game you think looks interesting will work out and be created... that's it and that's all you're entitled to. 

    You don't get to tell them how to run their project or how to spend their money. If they decide the devs working on the game need rolls of toilet paper that costs 100$ a roll cause it's super duper uber soft for the bungholes that's their prerogative not yours and you have nothing to say about it.

    Now it might be stupid, it might be irresponsible or incompetent but you have no right to tell them they HAVE to do different.

    People and even articles use the term investment when talking about KS but it's not.

    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/investment

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investor










    Again not a backer (which im sure you will use in some argument against me lol but my alarm bells were going off with this project) but again not asking for them to open their books. I'm also not telling them how to spend their money so if they want to spend 100 dollars per roll of toilet paper then that should be made clear so backers, potential or otherwise, can make a informed decision if they should grow money at a project that likes to waste backer money.

    Also technically we can see into the company's books in a limited capacity via the UK filings since you don't have the option to hide over there and we know that Erin is taking a massive salary of 190k GBP which seems a little in excess and makes you wonder what CR is paying himself and his wife per year.

    And backers do have the power to tell them to do differently but it just means they stop opening their wallets and throwing cash at CR whenever he shows off a new "gameplay" video that is more then likely just marketing fluff meant to drive hype
    Nothing personal against you here, I don't care how you spend your money or not. My replies is just me saying the extent of anyone authority, mine included, when pledging a game on KS is pretty much limited to asking for a refund.

    Also when I say open the books I mean open the books, their UK filings have diddly to do with this. Open the books is opening the books to see how they spend or earn  on XYZ.  Which is essentially what you are asking for.

    CIG does not have to tell you how much he pays his employees or himself or how much the yearly toilet paper cost is etc etc ad nauseam.

    People putting projects on KS don't need to make anything clear other than the project they propose.

    Instead of feeling entitled to tell someone running a project that they need to "make clear" what they are going to do with the money in terms of how much this and that will cost and how much they will pay for xyz people pledging should make themselves clear that any money pledged is lost and gone down the toilet regardless of if it fails or not or even if it succeeds and it's a totally different game.

    People give money to a KS or games like CIG with the mindset that they are entitled to something like they are investors or shareholders far far too often.
    I'm not sure how many times I have to say I'm not asking them to open the books before you understand that. It's really not that hard though for the most open game dev ever! to tell backers how the money is being used. Does that mean opening the books? No. Does that mean posting a cost breakdown of everything used in the office? No. Shit I'd be curious just to know what they spend on plane tickets flying back and forth between studios(and associated costs) when maybe no one has told CR what skype is?

    And I've never argued about being an investor or not since I know how KS works and yeah the most you can do is ask for a refund which many would probably do or never have pledged in the first place if they knew what kind of waste of money CIG might be doing.

    That wasn't my point about how much CR pays his employees but if he's paying his brother half a million a year to run 1 studio you should be stopping and asking yourself what kind of ridiculous salary he's paying himself and wife. And no I'm not saying he should be taking no salary but perhaps something a little more modest until they don't have to rely on presales of a game that isn't anywhere near complete.


  • acidbloodacidblood melbourneMember UncommonPosts: 645
    Scolioz said:
    ... If a company needs crow funding to build their product then they are losers who could never secure real investors who would never give them money without meeting deadlines and milestones.  EA and Ubi Soft don't crow fund their projects.. because their successful companies that are not managed by broke criminals.



    Not defending CIG / CS / CR in any way (I've seen little but vague 'promises' and horrible mismanagement from day 1), but there are plenty of great games and successful studios that only exist in their current state because of crowd funding.

    Also, and to each their own, but I'd much rather play the likes of Divinity: OS/2, Shadowrun: Returns/Dragonfall/Hong Kong, Wasteland 2, or the upcoming BattleChasers:Nightwar or BattleTech game over any of the re-skinned, microtransaction laden, 'successful' franchises that EA, Ubisoft, Activation, WB, etc. shovel out on a bi-annual (if not annual) basis.



    MrMelGibsonbarasawarpmcmurphy
  • Asm0deusAsm0deus BaatorMember RarePosts: 2,036
    edited September 25
    Kefo said:
    ...snip....
    I'm not sure how many times I have to say I'm not asking them to open the books before you understand that. It's really not that hard though for the most open game dev ever! to tell backers how the money is being used. Does that mean opening the books? No. Does that mean posting a cost breakdown of everything used in the office? No. Shit I'd be curious just to know what they spend on plane tickets flying back and forth between studios(and associated costs) when maybe no one has told CR what skype is?

    And I've never argued about being an investor or not since I know how KS works and yeah the most you can do is ask for a refund which many would probably do or never have pledged in the first place if they knew what kind of waste of money CIG might be doing.

    That wasn't my point about how much CR pays his employees but if he's paying his brother half a million a year to run 1 studio you should be stopping and asking yourself what kind of ridiculous salary he's paying himself and wife. And no I'm not saying he should be taking no salary but perhaps something a little more modest until they don't have to rely on presales of a game that isn't anywhere near complete.



    I'm not sure how many times I have to say I'm not asking them to open the books
    Really? Yet here you ask them,
    to tell backers how the money is being used
    which is essentially opening the books. That's what this term means.  You are asking them to show the inner workings of the company even if you're not after a complete breakdown.

     They are using the money to build the game.. What! Do you expect them to answer you saying they're using it on hoes n blow?
    Post edited by Asm0deus on

    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.

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  • MrMelGibsonMrMelGibson USAMember EpicPosts: 2,269
    Asm0deus said:
    Kefo said:
    Rhoklaw said:
    Teala said:
    It's crap post like the one the OP has started that has pretty much kept me away from MMORPG.com - this post does nothing but promote Derek Smart and his agenda.  It serves no other purpose and one other little truth - DS has predicted the SC failing almost since day one - guess what OP SC is still on track and getting made and the game development has not collapsed yet.


    Uhm, technically speaking, SC is NOT on track, but that doesn't even concern me. I'm more concerned about what they spend their money on.
    Why are you concerned about that?  It's not your money, it's their money.  If the game fails to be completed, then it makes sense to criticize expenditures after that happens.  But while the game is still being made, sticking our nose in their business is about as useful as pissing in the wind.
    Yeah why should the backers want accountability with the money they are giving CR, who has failed at running a game studio in the past? Better to ask questions when it's too late right?
    There a difference between accountability and wanting them to open their books to the public.  As much as I hate some of the thing CIG has done they have shown enough "accountability", via progress on the game, that you or even KS can't do anything or claim scam etc etc.

    The game is being made, its showing progress.. maybe not how you or I would like but then that a risk we take when we "give" our money away in a KS funded project.

    Bottom line is we didn't invest anything and we are not investors thus we have zero right to "see their books" as most people screaming for "accountability" really want.


    actually, for those donating to kickstarters, they ARE investors. They are investing into a game or product, similar to when the company seeks outside funding to publish/help fund a game/product

    However, buying ships does not make one an investor but someone just buying a ship like buying a cash shop product. But for those who donated to Star Citizen's Kickstarter, they are all investors. Without that money, Star Citizen would be very different today. 
    I don't think you understand what the word "investor" actually means.  If there is no return as in you are not getting money back stock shares.  You are not an investor.  The word you are looking for is donor.
    TheScavenger
  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Matrix, NYMember RarePosts: 2,198
    Asm0deus said:
    Kefo said:
    Rhoklaw said:
    Teala said:
    It's crap post like the one the OP has started that has pretty much kept me away from MMORPG.com - this post does nothing but promote Derek Smart and his agenda.  It serves no other purpose and one other little truth - DS has predicted the SC failing almost since day one - guess what OP SC is still on track and getting made and the game development has not collapsed yet.


    Uhm, technically speaking, SC is NOT on track, but that doesn't even concern me. I'm more concerned about what they spend their money on.
    Why are you concerned about that?  It's not your money, it's their money.  If the game fails to be completed, then it makes sense to criticize expenditures after that happens.  But while the game is still being made, sticking our nose in their business is about as useful as pissing in the wind.
    Yeah why should the backers want accountability with the money they are giving CR, who has failed at running a game studio in the past? Better to ask questions when it's too late right?
    There a difference between accountability and wanting them to open their books to the public.  As much as I hate some of the thing CIG has done they have shown enough "accountability", via progress on the game, that you or even KS can't do anything or claim scam etc etc.

    The game is being made, its showing progress.. maybe not how you or I would like but then that a risk we take when we "give" our money away in a KS funded project.

    Bottom line is we didn't invest anything and we are not investors thus we have zero right to "see their books" as most people screaming for "accountability" really want.


    actually, for those donating to kickstarters, they ARE investors. They are investing into a game or product, similar to when the company seeks outside funding to publish/help fund a game/product

    However, buying ships does not make one an investor but someone just buying a ship like buying a cash shop product. But for those who donated to Star Citizen's Kickstarter, they are all investors. Without that money, Star Citizen would be very different today. 
    I don't think you understand what the word "investor" actually means.  If there is no return as in you are not getting money back stock shares.  You are not an investor.  The word you are looking for is donor.
    Well hey, you are right.

    "
    in·ves·tor
    inˈvestər/
    noun
    1. a person or organization that puts money into financial schemes, property, etc. with the expectation of achieving a profit.
    "

    So the correct word is Donor. So everyone is donating to help fund the game, but no one will get profits out of it that have put money in. So you are correct :) Thanks for the correction

    MrMelGibson

    My adult gaming and mods website (various games, adult mods, screenshots, stories and other games I play(ed) 

    http://nsfwgaming.wixsite.com/adultgamingandmods

    And my Youtube channel (for nature/relaxation/meditation videos)

    https://www.youtube.com/user/Vendayn


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