However you need to frame so you can sleep at night. Are you going to play it? If someone calls it one thing and not another will that affect your decision?
Oh c'mon Torval, your argument is a red herring. Just because folks aren't going to go out and riot because Trump is President, it doesn't mean everyone agrees he was the best pick or even qualifies for the position.
I'm saying it doesn't matter what it's called. Sometimes it's relevant when describing a game, sometimes not. It's not relevant to me. Is it relevant to you whether someone calls it an mmo?
If we're talking about viewing the market, then of course. Including games that aren't really part of the genre skews our view of the industry itself.
It's akin to including pop rock in with indie and attempting to assert that indie rock is becoming mainstream because of it.
I have no qualms with the niche that is MMORPG. It was a niche when I found the genre, and I never really considered it as a mainstream gaming genre after I found it. It's the unique exprience that it brings that is attractive to me; not how closely it can imitate modern action RPGs.
Beyond that, if we're going to start including random games all willy nilly, there's not even a reason to use the term MMO anymore. Just call it all multiplayer and be done with it.
yes it's from 2014 and it's about Destiny1 - so obviously Destiny2 is going to stick to the same formula.
They don't want to be associated with MMOs as it would lose them sales - "hey Bob - check out Destiny" - "what is it an MMO, i don't play MMOs" - nah man it's a shooter. "oh cool, i'll buy that"
That logic can be applied the other way as well, it's a poor statement to use to support your opinion. Perhaps they just decided to stay true to their roots and make a shooter. It is Bungie, they aren't exactly hurting for cash, they easily could have said; Meh F@#$ the MMO crowd, call it a shooter. Applying your logic here.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Labels are the quick way of describing something. Marketers use labels to evoke a mental image of the game so you know what you can expect. They never cared what was right or wrong, they will call it anything just to sell more games.
If I would make a quick description of Destiny 2 action shooter would make you think of halo or call of duty, if I said parts of the game are co-op you think of teaming up with your friends for missions, if I say it has arena you think of shooting other players.
If I said MMO the majority of people would associate it with World of Warcraft and that's not a good describer of the game. You would also think of a vast open world and that's also incorrect.
Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
Destiny is an "mmo" in the same way Warframe, GW1, Vindictus, C9, etc etc are mmos. They are all lobby based multiplayer games. The massively part of the name in these games is on the server capacity, not on a persistent world like WoW, EQ etc. So yeah, it is technically still a non persistent mmo.
My two cents.
EDIT: Massively doesn´t imply persistent, its just that... massively. Whether its server side(total capacity) or on a persistent(non instanced) world is irrelevant.
Wrong. It says Massively Multiplayer. That means there are a massive amount of people playing TOGETHER. Not in separate worlds/instances or anything else. Its the definition of the words. The words have no other meanings other than what they stand for. Anyone arguing otherwise is just wrong (like you). Even the developers of GW1 have gone out and stated its not an MMO to those of you (like you) that are new to MMO's and don't quite "get it". Its really easy to understand what the three words applied together mean. But some people are just adamant on calling non mmo games mmo's.
We've already had standard multiplayer games like Counterstrike, Battlefield and more with higher player counts than some of the games you listed. Massively was added before hand for games that had a shit ton playing together. Not a shit ton playing at the same time. That's the best I can do for you. If you still have a problem comprehending the meaning, may whatever deity you believe in have mercy on you.
What is the definition of MMORPG? Go through the required definition list. Is the world persistent? Can you interact with a large number of players? Are there many concurrent users that you can interact with?
Players meet up and goof around, have races, raids, solo missions, holiday events, public events, hidden lore, hidden puzzles, random encounters...It feels like an MMO but no one really cares as we were having too much fun. Over the las 20 years my most meaningful gaming experiences have been with between 3-6 people, in whatever game I have played. Destiny was no different and D2 will be more of the same.
Increasingly, I've become aware of how much the world has moved on from what I first considered an MMO (SWG and CoH). I miss the old days but they are not coming back. New games offer new way to play with friends and I'm not prepared to pass that up over a definition. Folks should worry less about gatekeeping the genre and be more concerned with having fun. Otherwise whats the point?
There is NO miracle patch.
95% of what you see in beta won't change by launch.
Hope is not a stategy. ______________________________ "This kind of topic is like one of those little cartoon boxes held up by a stick on a string, with a piece of meat under it. In other words, bait."
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Destiny is an "mmo" in the same way Warframe, GW1, Vindictus, C9, etc etc are mmos. They are all lobby based multiplayer games. The massively part of the name in these games is on the server capacity, not on a persistent world like WoW, EQ etc. So yeah, it is technically still a non persistent mmo.
My two cents.
EDIT: Massively doesn´t imply persistent, its just that... massively. Whether its server side(total capacity) or on a persistent(non instanced) world is irrelevant.
Yeah lets make up our own definition what a MMO are lol So we got a chat hub that 1000 people can connect and chat and group up to form a 5 man group in a instance world zone are the same MMO as EQ, WoW, EVE, GW2, Linage, RIFT and a like?
That's better interpreted as saying that some fraction of Americans doesn't know and/or doesn't care how gravity works on that scale rather than insisting on something that is untrue. And in their defense, most people don't have any particular reason to know or care about that.
Such polls also get skewed by the overwhelming majority of people contacted being unwilling to answer. There is also some fraction of people who will basically respond, I think that's a stupid question so I'm going to give you a stupid answer.
That's better interpreted as saying that some fraction of Americans doesn't know and/or doesn't care how gravity works on that scale rather than insisting on something that is untrue. And in their defense, most people don't have any particular reason to know or care about that.
Such polls also get skewed by the overwhelming majority of people contacted being unwilling to answer. There is also some fraction of people who will basically respond, I think that's a stupid question so I'm going to give you a stupid answer.
Oh you optimist, you.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I want the "don't care" option in the poll because if I can play with my friends which, frankly, is all I want in the first place, and if I'm having fun then who gives a rip? Destiny 2 looks fun and I'm looking forward to it despite anyone's interpretation of what an MMO is (or isn't).
I guess I just don't understand these endless arguments. If it's a game that suits YOUR interpretation of an "MMO" and it looks fun for you and you want to play it, who cares what Joe Smith, random internet dude #1249537, says?
Conversely, if you are offended that devs don't call it an MMO and Joe Smith, random internet dude #1249537, feels the same way, then don't play it. It's pretty simple really.
More and more developers are shying away from the pigeonhole title "MMORPG" these days. In the end, no one's opinion matters but your own.
Too much time is wasted being offended over game genres. I have better things to do. :P
I guess I just don't understand these endless arguments. If it's a game that suits YOUR interpretation of an "MMO" and it looks fun for you and you want to play it, who cares what Joe Smith, random internet dude #1249537, says?
This would apply to all possible debates regarding video games. People debate for many reasons, not all of them are negative. I understand recurring debates are frustrating. But there is a reason for them. I am a student of the school of Heidegger. I believe fundamentals should remain open for debates, and these debates might not have any conclusions ever, but the arguments themselves help the progress of thought.
Constantine, The Console Poster
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
I guess I just don't understand these endless arguments. If it's a game that suits YOUR interpretation of an "MMO" and it looks fun for you and you want to play it, who cares what Joe Smith, random internet dude #1249537, says?
This would apply to all possible debates regarding video games. People debate for many reasons, not all of them are negative. I understand recurring debates are frustrating. But there is a reason for them. I am a student of the school of Heidegger. I believe fundamentals should remain open for debates, and these debates might not have any conclusions ever, but the arguments themselves help the progress of thought.
Maybe instead of reviews and forums we could just have a game's name and then 2 buttons: "I like it" or "I don't like it". Of course traffic and ad revenues might go down... just a thought.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
However you need to frame so you can sleep at night. Are you going to play it? If someone calls it one thing and not another will that affect your decision?
Oh c'mon Torval, your argument is a red herring. Just because folks aren't going to go out and riot because Trump is President, it doesn't mean everyone agrees he was the best pick or even qualifies for the position.
I'm saying it doesn't matter what it's called. Sometimes it's relevant when describing a game, sometimes not. It's not relevant to me. Is it relevant to you whether someone calls it an mmo?
If we're talking about viewing the market, then of course. Including games that aren't really part of the genre skews our view of the industry itself.
It's akin to including pop rock in with indie and attempting to assert that indie rock is becoming mainstream because of it.
I have no qualms with the niche that is MMORPG. It was a niche when I found the genre, and I never really considered it as a mainstream gaming genre after I found it. It's the unique exprience that it brings that is attractive to me; not how closely it can imitate modern action RPGs.
Beyond that, if we're going to start including random games all willy nilly, there's not even a reason to use the term MMO anymore. Just call it all multiplayer and be done with it.
Like I said before, reason through it in whatever way makes you feel it's all sorted. I'm not sure what your point is other than you think it's not an mmo and it's important that everyone else not call it one either.
So it's an mmo, so it's not an mmo, so it has some features found in mmos but missing some others. So what? The developer and publisher aren't calling it one. You know what I think? I think the only people that really care one way or another are some forum warriors desperately trying to keep MMORPGs relevant and in the current events discussion. But no one else is even thinking about the game in terms of MMO or not MMO or really thinking about "MMO gaming" much at all.
I've talked to a few other Destiny gamers and worries center around weapon balance in pvp. My PC gamer friends who didn't play Destiny are interested because it's a coop shooter and it's on the Blizzard Launcher.
I played Destiny for hundreds of hours. I have a crowded tribe, we played together. Not once we talked if this is an MMO or not.
But we're on mmorpg.com and not so long ago there was an article saying it is an MMO. I guess that started this fire, or at least fueled it for good!
PS. btw I decided to get it on PC instead, and will play on US--hopefully the ping would be tolerable--so I'll be joining ya.
Constantine, The Console Poster
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
Why does every thing have to be labeled? If its fun, play it. If it isn't then don't. Does calling it an MMO or Multi player FPS or even green beans make it any more or less enjoyable?
I want the "don't care" option in the poll because if I can play with my friends which, frankly, is all I want in the first place, and if I'm having fun then who gives a rip? Destiny 2 looks fun and I'm looking forward to it despite anyone's interpretation of what an MMO is (or isn't).
I guess I just don't understand these endless arguments. If it's a game that suits YOUR interpretation of an "MMO" and it looks fun for you and you want to play it, who cares what Joe Smith, random internet dude #1249537, says?
Conversely, if you are offended that devs don't call it an MMO and Joe Smith, random internet dude #1249537, feels the same way, then don't play it. It's pretty simple really.
More and more developers are shying away from the pigeonhole title "MMORPG" these days. In the end, no one's opinion matters but your own.
Too much time is wasted being offended over game genres. I have better things to do. :P
Sadly, this is what happens when these arguments become more interesting than the majority of games that are currently offered. Which is why I don't care about this argument. Just give me a dam game that is fun. I don't care if it's single player, multi player or massively multiplayer. Just give me a fun game. Call it "Al-la-peanut-butter-sandwiches" for all I care.
Comments
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
It's akin to including pop rock in with indie and attempting to assert that indie rock is becoming mainstream because of it.
I have no qualms with the niche that is MMORPG. It was a niche when I found the genre, and I never really considered it as a mainstream gaming genre after I found it. It's the unique exprience that it brings that is attractive to me; not how closely it can imitate modern action RPGs.
Beyond that, if we're going to start including random games all willy nilly, there's not even a reason to use the term MMO anymore. Just call it all multiplayer and be done with it.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
If I would make a quick description of Destiny 2 action shooter would make you think of halo or call of duty, if I said parts of the game are co-op you think of teaming up with your friends for missions, if I say it has arena you think of shooting other players.
If I said MMO the majority of people would associate it with World of Warcraft and that's not a good describer of the game. You would also think of a vast open world and that's also incorrect.
We've already had standard multiplayer games like Counterstrike, Battlefield and more with higher player counts than some of the games you listed. Massively was added before hand for games that had a shit ton playing together. Not a shit ton playing at the same time. That's the best I can do for you. If you still have a problem comprehending the meaning, may whatever deity you believe in have mercy on you.
If <32 then 100% no. 32-64 uncertain. >64 is yes.
Similar to its predecessor, Destiny 2 is a first-person shooter game that incorporates role-playing and massively multiplayer online game (MMO) elements.
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
Increasingly, I've become aware of how much the world has moved on from what I first considered an MMO (SWG and CoH). I miss the old days but they are not coming back. New games offer new way to play with friends and I'm not prepared to pass that up over a definition. Folks should worry less about gatekeeping the genre and be more concerned with having fun. Otherwise whats the point?
There is NO miracle patch.
95% of what you see in beta won't change by launch.
Hope is not a stategy.
______________________________
"This kind of topic is like one of those little cartoon boxes held up by a stick on a string, with a piece of meat under it. In other words, bait."
Yes the Dev/Pub of Destiny classify it as a "Single player/Multi player/Coop game "?
1 In 4 Americans Thinks The Sun Goes Around The Earth, Survey Says
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
So we got a chat hub that 1000 people can connect and chat and group up to form a 5 man group in a instance world zone are the same MMO as EQ, WoW, EVE, GW2, Linage, RIFT and a like?
Such polls also get skewed by the overwhelming majority of people contacted being unwilling to answer. There is also some fraction of people who will basically respond, I think that's a stupid question so I'm going to give you a stupid answer.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I guess I just don't understand these endless arguments. If it's a game that suits YOUR interpretation of an "MMO" and it looks fun for you and you want to play it, who cares what Joe Smith, random internet dude #1249537, says?
Conversely, if you are offended that devs don't call it an MMO and Joe Smith, random internet dude #1249537, feels the same way, then don't play it. It's pretty simple really.
More and more developers are shying away from the pigeonhole title "MMORPG" these days. In the end, no one's opinion matters but your own.
Too much time is wasted being offended over game genres. I have better things to do. :P
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
But we're on mmorpg.com and not so long ago there was an article saying it is an MMO. I guess that started this fire, or at least fueled it for good!
PS. btw I decided to get it on PC instead, and will play on US--hopefully the ping would be tolerable--so I'll be joining ya.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/06/15/seven-percent-of-americans-think-chocolate-milk-comes-from-brown-cows-and-thats-not-even-the-scary-part/