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Lets talk about F2P vs B2P a little. Is F2P the new trial ?
Hefaistos
Member UncommonPosts: 388
I see people...lots of people that want F2P games to have the same features as the ones that have F2P games BUT also standard, deluxe, ultra delux, etc. Why humans wont understand that game costs a lot, ip cost, jobs must be paid ? How can a player think that a company will create by default a f2p game with no monetization in mind in 2017 and be called a business ?
Why humans dont understand that if its cheap sucks or its hard to progress, its made to bait you in to the game and buy the cheapest package ?
I have no problems with costs. I work, i am paid, i can afford any game and any package BUT why F2P players want ALL FOR FREE ?
F2P in 2017 is like an extended trial.
OH WAIT>>>>DID U PAID FOR STANDARD PACKAGE....YOU ARE P2W.
Why humans dont understand that if its cheap sucks or its hard to progress, its made to bait you in to the game and buy the cheapest package ?
I have no problems with costs. I work, i am paid, i can afford any game and any package BUT why F2P players want ALL FOR FREE ?
F2P in 2017 is like an extended trial.
OH WAIT>>>>DID U PAID FOR STANDARD PACKAGE....YOU ARE P2W.
Comments
I personally haven't really gotten into the whole f2p thing anymore because most share the same issue of poor costumer service, which can be vital if you get hacked (which again can be common depending on the game). So if you're hacked, most cases you're out of luck and the company does not have to guarantee you anything because they give you access to their service for free. Companies like Blizzard and SE are a bit more liable if the same thing happens and will usually guarantee you at least one roll back in the event something like that happens. As for entitlement, it really depends. Some people feel that you should have access to all content for free and personally I agree because it helps keep the player base together. As far as selling boosts and such that help you level faster, I personally feel those are fine. But selling gear or locking gear slots/tiers of gear behind pay walls really only attributes to a separation in the community. And ultimately a situation is created where the biggest wallet wins the day. People can argue that games like Archeage aren't p2w, but when you see 3 people killing 20 in an enemy city because they were able to buy massive amounts of luck charms etc to get their gear score higher than everyone else faster, one has to question if that's really right or not.
Yes, whatever you say. OMG.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Still, far from all F2P games are pay2win, it is a difference between wanting players to buy some stuff and totally messing up the games balance with expensive stuff. Some games have an acceptable model and sell stuff that doesn't make the game less fun to play.
Me personally prefer B2P, the initial and expansion cost means you still get money and can get a little extra for more cosmetic stuff in the shop while not going too far, I don't care if they sell stuff (and even buy an expansion slot or something similar now and then if I enjoy a game) as long as it doesn't break the game.
No matter what model they use they need to get an income and the F2P model do tempt them to add expensive game breaking stuff for a quick income but I am pretty sure they will loose long term on that.
As for freemium games with "voluntary" subs I wish they just went P2P instead with an unlimited trial for the first third of the game instead. At least that seems more honest to me, we know you usually need that sub anyways.
Cryomstrix
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
HOWEVER, to have access to all it features and boosts you will have to spend money. Just how much and on what decides whether or not it is fair and/or P2W. And even that differs from person to person.
I think F2P is a perfect description, people just read into it what they want to see, not what it actually says.
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
no one asked for totaly free to play game, they want fairness, fine if the dev want to make it f2p but make a fair cash shop !!
you are a tool if you think these f2p barely got enough of their investments... they make way more more money that needed... and you sound like their typical target ... aka ''hey i got money, rip me off, im fine, i got money, take it !!
well i also got money and im not buying into these f2p crap games
stop blame consumer, that the company fault at this point, many peoples actualy would gladly pay for a subs at this point for a quality games, but they got way more money leech peoples like you in f2p game... 15$ a month ?? pfffffff we want 500$ from addic who dont know the value of money
if they dont want you in their group because you got bad item because you did not pay for unlock special skill, magic, or whatver abuse the game do for make a money sink , so you dont do highest level instance for exemple ?
im guessing you are very casual for not care about p2win and not someone who enjoy pvp
im right?
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
2) F2P doesn't give an even playing field, the people around you, who has what.
3) F2P Is often a hidden trick, and a gambling device instead of a game.
4) People seem to pull money out of a hat somehow. Charge $59.95 and $14.99 a month, that's what the going price was 20 years ago. Check out your local mall where ever you live. You'll find no cars less than 3 years old.
5) Unemployment is a choice, people put conditions on their work or they will not work at all.
6) No money, no play !...... I don't think I'm cold at all by saying this.
New thing comes out, new thing is over powered. You buy or put money into new thing, 3-6 months down the line, new thing is now useless.
"Oh my god, I need to pay the sub fee to be competitive! Pay to win!!!"
My god! It's like you can't play the game for free forever and expect to be competitive! (Though even that usually isn't all that true. If you know how to work a game's economy and it has some kind of item you can buy for monthly subs like PLEX then you can be very competitive for free.)
I've thought about various payment models over the years. Each have their strengths and weaknesses. I think the most appealing compilation of payment models is a combination of several.
- Base game. This is a combination package including 4 character types, 4 races, 1 character permit and 20-30 zones (5 zones are starter zones). This includes all future updates to these elements.
- Fixed price expansion packages. These could include new character classes, new races and new areas (a group of 5 zones). These would also include all future updates to these elements.
- There would be a charge per character beyond the first. This is a one-time fee to create the character, and may be incrementally priced. Basically, a pay for an alt thing. All characters have an annual fee.
- Cosmetic shop. Items without statistics and emotes.
- Functional shop (optional). Mounts, armor, weapons, potions -- anything with statistics. Buying anything from the Functional shop permanently marks the character with a tag identifying that they may (or may not) have P2W type equipment.
- Services shop. The various naming, transfer services, plus purchasing unique titles.
This excludes a trial function. That probably would not have worked in 2002, but is a lot more feasible in 2017. It also chooses to ignore the monthly subscription -- that business model is working so well for the newspaper and periodical industries.Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
The majority of companies are founded on the premise of making lots of profit, not merely surviving. Generally only indy companies MIGHT be more interested with the love of creating their product than just in surviving (PoE being one of those rare examples) and the majority of those won't be able to produce MMORPGs that sustain themselves.
For any F2P MMO trying to maximize profits, there will always be the question hanging over the developers' heads, "Is there any way we can get or incentivise the customer to give us more money?" Even if they've somehow already answered that question with "If we make a good game, the customer will have incentive to give us more money!", they've then reached a situation where the question will STILL hang over their heads albeit in a semi-altered form, "But how can we give them more incentive to give us even MORE money after that?"
If that involves making the F2P so intrusive that playing without paying is more like a free trial, then "so be it" in a lot of profit-maximizers' minds. Of course, one key is to make sure no one realizes it's just a free trial until you've already hooked the whales in...
In the end, all you can do is hope to find an MMORPG where the F2P intrusions are tolerable enough for you AND the MMORPG makes enough money for the company to decide to keep it going. Easier said than done for lots of people (which is why one of the publically acknowledged weaknesses of the F2P model by a multi-million dollar F2P company was a lower player base, alas typically worth it to them in exchange for more money overall)
Cryomatrix
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
So many games would've benefited from having a company that wants to make a good game rather than drain as much money as possible from its players.
Is it not better to create a great game that people would love to support and pay for items because they're cool and interesting [the game lasting for years and everyone praising the game and the developer, which will make even more people play and pay] rather than a crappy game where the main point is to grab as much money as possible while doing nothing as the game crashes and burns [which, obviously, will just drive people away]?
Look at For Honor. That game should've been a giant hit, yet it lost 95% of its playerbase in just 2 months or so BECAUSE Ubisoft decided to do that very same thing: Do everything possible to milk the hell out of the game and then do nothing.
b2p = unlock max lv 100 and lv 100 equipment
sub (after buy) = temporarily unlock lv 120 stronger in pve and wvw
cash shop = cosmetic only
spvp matchmaking game like gw2 for hardcore pvp (all max pure skills)
Or doesn't that count?
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
game is a hobby. why dont u invest? u can pay for better gaming pc, mouse...why not game? u dont want to pay then just be casual or ask dev make spvp game like gw2...matchmaking all max