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Why the outrage...I'll cover everything.
delete5230
Member EpicPosts: 7,081
First I'll say this will be one of my last post.
Their really is not much to see here anymore. Not because their is nothing to talk about that hasn't been covered but the lack of mmos. Because of a this lack we can only express our feelings.
I mentioned a few things before, but their true:
One of my unpopular ones is the definition of what an mmo is. We throw this word around like it's trash. The so called open minded posters say they "evolved"......... This is absolutely NOT TRUE...... They are now something else..... Many often say, they are off line solo games where you log in and see other players around you. PvE is a now mini game. It's something you do when your feeling frisky !..... The fact is, their designed where no one needs anyone.
People here like to say developers are reaching for the largest player base and leave it at that. Ok, that's what happened, but their still not mmo's.
MMO's are not mmos, their something else. Because theirs no name for the " word ", their still called mmo's, but their not ! It as if a new fruit was invented and they continued calling it a banana.
It's a 100% fact players didn't ask for changes..... People have yet to prove me wrong, where is this poll ?..... Numbers show players will play anything. Numbers show players will play what's advertised. A starving person will eat shit, excuse my language.
My topic about Vaugard, seemed to draw a large post, fueled with anger.....Why ?..... People wanted and still want an mmo.
Not much to talk about anymore, the most popular GW2, FF14, and ESO, and BDO are glorified playgrounds not mmos.
Their really is not much to see here anymore. Not because their is nothing to talk about that hasn't been covered but the lack of mmos. Because of a this lack we can only express our feelings.
I mentioned a few things before, but their true:
One of my unpopular ones is the definition of what an mmo is. We throw this word around like it's trash. The so called open minded posters say they "evolved"......... This is absolutely NOT TRUE...... They are now something else..... Many often say, they are off line solo games where you log in and see other players around you. PvE is a now mini game. It's something you do when your feeling frisky !..... The fact is, their designed where no one needs anyone.
People here like to say developers are reaching for the largest player base and leave it at that. Ok, that's what happened, but their still not mmo's.
MMO's are not mmos, their something else. Because theirs no name for the " word ", their still called mmo's, but their not ! It as if a new fruit was invented and they continued calling it a banana.
It's a 100% fact players didn't ask for changes..... People have yet to prove me wrong, where is this poll ?..... Numbers show players will play anything. Numbers show players will play what's advertised. A starving person will eat shit, excuse my language.
My topic about Vaugard, seemed to draw a large post, fueled with anger.....Why ?..... People wanted and still want an mmo.
Not much to talk about anymore, the most popular GW2, FF14, and ESO, and BDO are glorified playgrounds not mmos.
![[Deleted User]](http://w8.vanillicon.com/v2/8fb1f3555cfe9a83f4bfa1bdfb5cb3d0.svg)
and 6 others.
Comments
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Your views and they are that you seem to think others should support and applaud. Well we don't and most of us are not interested in them any more.
In your thread I suggested to let Vanguard rest in peace, not because I didn't like to play a game like Vanguard, but simply because that game was technically flawed and still with content missing when it was shut down.
Bringing it it back will require a big investment from Day Break in order to make it viable, money they clearly don't have.
It was more of a realistic approach rather than a criticism to Vanguard and the Old School games.
There is also Pantheon on the horizon, so it will make no sense bringing Vanguard back to life right now.
There are still lots of people who like "real" MMORPGs, like me, but hanging on to an old title like Vanguard is not the solution.
None of this stops the fact that MMO's are not MMO's anymore. There something else !
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Black and What is Black and White. MMO's are not MMO's anymore. Their playgrounds where you can gather your stuff along side the next guy.
When I was growing up, 20 years ago, most people didn't own a computer and didn't know how to use one. Internet was a luxury that noone had - it was something similar to VR today. Only people passionate about technology had it, because there was no consensus that it will actually be useful. So who do you think the target audience was for MMOs back then? It was a person who is a bit of an outlier in the community, someone who has a PC and internet. These people were often old school sci-fi and fantasy fans. They didn't care something isn't easy to use - they wouldn't have a PC with internet if they did. That was the target audience for MMOs, because there was no other audience out there. 3 people out of 20 in my class had a PC.
Fast forward to my high school, 10 years ago. 29 people out of 30 in my class had a PC. Out of those, maybe 10 used it for gaming. The one person who didn't have a computer had to go to the school's library every afternoon to do their homework, which needed internet. Today, I am at university. Everyone has a laptop. Compared to my high school, gaming isn't a 30% of people thing. Everyone understands it on some level.
I still have this thing in my mind where I think you should never mention gaming to others, as it is marginal entertainment. It's simply not true anymore. I was moving houses last year and a girl was helping me move the boxes, she had a car and I didn't. She wasn't nerdy at all, studying a business major, really into management. When she was carrying my console games, she was genuinely interested in them, saying she plays games every now and then herself. That was a big eye opener for me, as I realised the gaming market has changed substantially.
In terms of MMOs, they reflect this change. They still class as MMOs - if a mass of players share the same virtual space, it's generally called a MMO. They do appeal to different audiences today though! Some games still go after the niche market of tech enthusiasts who want deep non-trivial systems. EVE Online is a great example of this - this is just a guess, but I'd say majority of EVE players are similar to the MMO player 20 years ago. But you also have other MMOs, those that try to capture other player bases. Games like WoW are still MMOs, but they go for the mainstream fantasy fan. This means making the systems easier to understand - after all, the majority of people aren't tech fanatics and won't have the patience to invest days or weeks into understanding one system a game has to offer.
I'd say a veteran player today has two options. Either accept the market has grown, leave people enjoy their entertainment and find a place for yourself, in this big pie, that you enjoy. There is a huge variety of games today. Saying no MMO has anything to offer is probably not true.
The alternative is to be bitter about the change, trying to build a stone wall around your idea of what a MMO should and shouldn't be. I personally think this is exhausting and not fun, so I'll do the former.
MAGA
I see there is no use in continuing the conversation so again: Bye!
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
It is certainly true that they moved more focus on the soloplayers that only play an hour or less each day, that I can back up pretty well since we can compare how much solocontent a game like M59 or EQ had with a modern MMO, it is clearly more soloquest and less bosses that takes a team to take down and the time it takes to level up is way faster today so the core focus group have changed. I am not sure I would call changing what type of player you aim for evolution but the games have evolved in other parts.
Graphics is better, bugs are down, trade have evolved a lot since I started with M59 in '96 and while we had quests even then they have improved (killing rats in the moat anyone?).
Other parts of the game feels far more similar and some things have been simplified but not really improved like the tab targeted trinity combat, a few games have put focus on moving while fighting and there is action combat but that is it.
And the difficulty have devolved.
My point is that it is complicated, many things have become better but the games does not target me myself anymore which is a bummer. That doesn't mean they are worse, just made for someone else. Then again, since those people started moving on to Mobas, mobile games and Overwatch it seems the genre is changing player style focus again now.
MAGA
Hay, that's nice how you stated that " I'm gonna maybe hurt your feelings here ". This makes me respect your comments more.
I'm really not that mean nasty guy and it would appear here typing my objections of others.
HOWEVER I am that guy that will talk about the Elephant in the room, where everyone ignores it, or even thinks their is NONE AT ALL..... If in three months, if the Elephant is still their... I say theirs the Elephant !
MAGA
I agree with you but the kids living in mom and dads basement along with all there partisapation trophy's will not.
MAGA
Of course that never stopped many PvE games doing the opposite so I might be wrong, it could be enough to earn CCP some cash, Everquest actually managed it with some success at least but i think the other way around is even harder.
delete5230 said: We know that, you might be slightly over-dramatic though.:)
Your nasty !.......... I talk about the Elephant, how mmos are not MMO's and you call me everything in the book and call it friendly....... Your nasty !
I've been perusing the new forums recently but still see old favorites such as "remove local" because apparently some gankers think it gives us carebears too big of an "advantage" in escaping from them.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Many of us have far more experience than you in the genre since you started playing your first MMORPG when you played WoW by your own admission. This in itself is not a fault or defect neither does it mean you cannot discuss these issues since experience in this genre does not necessarily make you a member of an exclusive club. The problem is your obsession with trying to dismiss other people's genuine interest in the games they play in favour of your idea of what this genre should be and the type of games that should warrant recognition. Not satisfied with trying to bring this issue up time and time again thinly disguised in your threads at an attempt to rehash your tired ideas you also visit the threads of games you have no interest in to put down the people who play them. This behaviour is what makes others dislike you but since you're not bothered by it and not here to win a popularity contest you have soldiered on and continued posting while engaging in this quest you seem to have taken upon yourself.
However you now are complaining that people are not lying down and simply agreeing with you or are providing resistance to your attempts at enlightening us. You have a conceited opinion of yourself that you fail to see that most of us actually know what we want in our games and we don't spend our time moaning on the forums. Even if the current games are not to our liking we are not so naive as to think that by tilting windmills we are making progress. I personally am just happy when I am having fun and seldom see the need to start threads here to pursue some personal vendetta against this genre and how it has changed. I am personally though fed up of people who think my way or the highway and I won't be sad to see you go and like they say 'don't let the door hit you on the way out".
And yes, that sometimes means the market doesn't include you.
You keep saying that 'everybody' wants blah blah blah... the market reflects what 'everybody' wants.
They don't need to do a poll to know what the market wants... the money is their poll.
Sorry if you missed it.
Well, Not much to talk about for mmo's since we don't have any.
But I think I'll stick around.