Looking for MMOG with world class crafting

245

Comments

  • ScorchienScorchien Hatboro, PAMember EpicPosts: 4,034
    Eldurian said:
    @Scorchien
    Eldurian said:

    Crafting - The improvement phase is unique to Wurm. In most games you craft get the needed materials for an item, execute the recipe, and boom there is your item. In Wurm it follows that process at first but the item that pops out is a low quality item for anything except bulk items like nails and planks. Low quality items are virtually useless in most cases. Making the item useful involves a process of improving the item that requires exponentially more time the higher quality you want to make it to the point QL 99 weapons, tools, armor etc. are exceptionally rare. This process is what generates the value of an item more than the materials it is made from. So crafters can easily make back and exceed the value of materials. No making 10,000 daggers at a loss to be able to even break even. It also makes being a blacksmith actually feel like being a blacksmith, instead of being a miner.
    Scorchien said:

    umm .. all those things were in UO and or ATITD before WURM .... so not innovative

    Blacksmithing in UO

    Blacksmithing in WO

    Really? I only checked the first and most important item on the list but you're at least wrong in that regard. I'll trust you probably saw some loose similarities in the list and then made your inaccurate assessment based on that. That seems about like you.



    LMFAO ,you obviously have no idea what is involved at all with UO smithing , but cherry picking the absolute simplest thing , excluding so much to fit your agenda ..But include a full Wurm vid ..

      That sounds about you ..

     I would take the time to educate you , but from experience it is fruitless and clearly a waste of time ..

     Or we could have a poll and im certain you would lose at 5-6 ratio again , and then cry polls are useless ...

      And thx for the Wurm video reminding us all at how unintuitve and cumbersome this shit game is .  And its nearly the same , you can create higher quality items in UO depending on ore and Blacksmithing /Mining /Armslore Skills  .. Wurm is just a slight alteration  to UOs system (no inovation in WUrm)and of course graphically different ...

      ANd i quote the Wurm video ,, " And thats all there is to it , to create higher quality , its just my skill is to low"
    EldurianRexKushmanExcession
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXMember EpicPosts: 16,098
    edited July 3
    Scorchien said:
    Eldurian said:
    @Scorchien
    Eldurian said:

    Crafting - The improvement phase is unique to Wurm. In most games you craft get the needed materials for an item, execute the recipe, and boom there is your item. In Wurm it follows that process at first but the item that pops out is a low quality item for anything except bulk items like nails and planks. Low quality items are virtually useless in most cases. Making the item useful involves a process of improving the item that requires exponentially more time the higher quality you want to make it to the point QL 99 weapons, tools, armor etc. are exceptionally rare. This process is what generates the value of an item more than the materials it is made from. So crafters can easily make back and exceed the value of materials. No making 10,000 daggers at a loss to be able to even break even. It also makes being a blacksmith actually feel like being a blacksmith, instead of being a miner.
    Scorchien said:

    umm .. all those things were in UO and or ATITD before WURM .... so not innovative

    Blacksmithing in UO

    Blacksmithing in WO

    Really? I only checked the first and most important item on the list but you're at least wrong in that regard. I'll trust you probably saw some loose similarities in the list and then made your inaccurate assessment based on that. That seems about like you.



    LMFAO ,you obviously have no idea what is involved at all with UO smithing , but cherry picking the absolute simplest thing , excluding so much to fit your agenda ..But include a full Wurm vid ..

      That sounds about you ..

     I would take the time to educate you , but from experience it is fruitless and clearly a waste of time ..

     Or we could have a poll and im certain you would lose at 5-6 ratio again , and then cry polls are useless ...

      And thx for the Wurm video reminding us all at how unintuitve and cumbersome this shit game is .  And its nearly the same , you can create higher quality items in UO depending on ore and Blacksmithing /Mining /Armslore Skills  .. Wurm is just a slight alteration  to UOs system (no inovation in WUrm)and of course graphically different ...

      ANd i quote the Wurm video ,, " And thats all there is to it , to create higher quality , its just my skill is to low"
    unless I missed it he didnt tell you what that 'thing' was. so you are klind of comparing the two and his concern completley blindly unless you knew what he was refering to ahead of time becuas e it was obvious.


    there isnt a crafting system in the entire gaming industry that is so complex that you guys can not disucss the details.

    So if you dont mind, please explain durability and improving in OU
    Post edited by SEANMCAD on

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  • TheocritusTheocritus Gary, INMember RarePosts: 5,402
    Wurm is awful...In 2017 thats like recommending Pong to someone...the game is severely outdated..Not only that the F2P model is bad and who wants to pay for something that old and worn?
  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 1,848
    edited July 4
    Scorchien said:

    And its nearly the same , you can create higher quality items in UO depending on ore and Blacksmithing /Mining /Armslore Skills  .. Wurm is just a slight alteration  to UOs system (no inovation in WUrm)and of course graphically different ...
    Totally not the same thing as the improvement system. You're describing the Life is Feudal system. In the Wurm system you actually put work in to create higher QL items. If you take 99 QL ore with 99 weaponsmithing and make a sword it will come out at only about 20 QL. Making a 90QL sword is the process of hours of improvement.

    That's not a "light alteration". It completely revolutionizes how crafting works to make crafting an actual process as opposed to just watching a timer before an item spits out. 

    It's not the epitome of what crafting systems can be, but it's hands down the best thing on the market right now.

    Wurm is definitely not a game for people who are bad at figuring things out. It's a heavy game with a lot of information to learn and digest. I can see why you don't like it. Just because you are ignorant of the subject at hand doesn't mean the innovation isn't there though. You clearly know almost nothing about this game. That's fine. Just don't speak like you do.
    Post edited by Eldurian on
  • sunandshadowsunandshadow Pittsburgh, PAMember UncommonPosts: 1,698
    Dofus also has an improvement phase for crafting.  You destroy stupid items to get runes, then mage the runes onto decent items for a chance at improving them.
    I want to help design and develop a PvE-focused, solo-friendly, sandpark MMO which combines crafting, monster hunting, and story.  So PM me if you are starting one.
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXMember EpicPosts: 16,098
    edited July 4
    Wurm is awful...In 2017 thats like recommending Pong to someone...the game is severely outdated..Not only that the F2P model is bad and who wants to pay for something that old and worn?
    I do.

    its still one of my favorite games.
    Yeah it looks very dated but the crafting and building is a direct slap in the face to 'modern games'. Its not complex, but it is more complex then 'mainstream' games which is to say. mainstream games is insulting your intelligence.

    Let me share you a story:
    Wurm: I paid $7 a month to play that game and I adore it, put in countless hours.

    ArcheAge: I paid $70 for the game because I thought well ship building is nice let me give this mainstreamer a chance. I lasted a week before i wanted to pull my hair out from boredom. and even though the graphics are better they are less believable then wurm which made it far less immersive for me.


    it really blows my mind how people are running around doing button mashing quests for endless hours each the same and the have the balls to be a critic of any game that tries to provide more than the bare bones boring bullshit that  has been fed people for more than a decade

    Post edited by SEANMCAD on
    GdemamiAelious

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  • ScorchienScorchien Hatboro, PAMember EpicPosts: 4,034
    Eldurian said:
    Scorchien said:

    And its nearly the same , you can create higher quality items in UO depending on ore and Blacksmithing /Mining /Armslore Skills  .. Wurm is just a slight alteration  to UOs system (no inovation in WUrm)and of course graphically different ...
    Totally not the same thing as the improvement system. You're describing the Life is Feudal system. In the Wurm system you actually put work in to create higher QL items. If you take 99 QL ore with 99 weaponsmithing and make a sword it will come out at only about 20 QL. Making a 90QL sword is the process of hours of improvement.

    That's not a "light alteration". It completely revolutionizes how crafting works to make crafting an actual process as opposed to just watching a timer before an item spits out. 

    It's not the epitome of what crafting systems can be, but it's hands down the best thing on the market right now.

    Wurm is definitely not a game for people who are bad at figuring things out. It's a heavy game with a lot of information to learn and digest. I can see why you don't like it. Just because you are ignorant of the subject at hand doesn't mean the innovation isn't there though. You clearly know almost nothing about this game. That's fine. Just don't speak like you do.
    I stop massaging yourself .. FFS , we all have played WURM , There is nothing hard to figure out , MAybe it was for you ... Its a very simple game to be honest ... very Simple ,SLow ,Lethargic ,Tedius, COwpie now why dont you scurry off and join the other 44 people playing it ..
    Eldurian
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXMember EpicPosts: 16,098
    edited July 4
    Scorchien said:
    Eldurian said:
    Scorchien said:

    And its nearly the same , you can create higher quality items in UO depending on ore and Blacksmithing /Mining /Armslore Skills  .. Wurm is just a slight alteration  to UOs system (no inovation in WUrm)and of course graphically different ...
    Totally not the same thing as the improvement system. You're describing the Life is Feudal system. In the Wurm system you actually put work in to create higher QL items. If you take 99 QL ore with 99 weaponsmithing and make a sword it will come out at only about 20 QL. Making a 90QL sword is the process of hours of improvement.

    That's not a "light alteration". It completely revolutionizes how crafting works to make crafting an actual process as opposed to just watching a timer before an item spits out. 

    It's not the epitome of what crafting systems can be, but it's hands down the best thing on the market right now.

    Wurm is definitely not a game for people who are bad at figuring things out. It's a heavy game with a lot of information to learn and digest. I can see why you don't like it. Just because you are ignorant of the subject at hand doesn't mean the innovation isn't there though. You clearly know almost nothing about this game. That's fine. Just don't speak like you do.
    ... we all have played WURM , ...
    absolute total horseshit.

    first off 'we all' is not some kind of clan around here, second off I dount very seriously that most MMORPG.com posters have played wurm. about 1/2 that claim that they have actually have and that 1/2 doesnt even make up most MMORPG posters
    Post edited by SEANMCAD on
    Eldurianpostlarval

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

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  • ScorchienScorchien Hatboro, PAMember EpicPosts: 4,034
    SEANMCAD said:
    Scorchien said:
    Eldurian said:
    Scorchien said:

    And its nearly the same , you can create higher quality items in UO depending on ore and Blacksmithing /Mining /Armslore Skills  .. Wurm is just a slight alteration  to UOs system (no inovation in WUrm)and of course graphically different ...
    Totally not the same thing as the improvement system. You're describing the Life is Feudal system. In the Wurm system you actually put work in to create higher QL items. If you take 99 QL ore with 99 weaponsmithing and make a sword it will come out at only about 20 QL. Making a 90QL sword is the process of hours of improvement.

    That's not a "light alteration". It completely revolutionizes how crafting works to make crafting an actual process as opposed to just watching a timer before an item spits out. 

    It's not the epitome of what crafting systems can be, but it's hands down the best thing on the market right now.

    Wurm is definitely not a game for people who are bad at figuring things out. It's a heavy game with a lot of information to learn and digest. I can see why you don't like it. Just because you are ignorant of the subject at hand doesn't mean the innovation isn't there though. You clearly know almost nothing about this game. That's fine. Just don't speak like you do.
    ... we all have played WURM , ...
    absolute total horseshit.

    first off 'we all' is not some kind of clan around here, second off I dount very seriously that most MMORPG.com posters have played wurm. about 1/2 that claim that they have actually have and that 1/2 doesnt even make up most MMORPG posters
    Way to reach ... is that all you can grasp from that .. OK many of us have , And many of us left , not because its so Great , Because our clicking finger got numb while watching Netflix on a second monitor .....  Go enjoy your game and stop trying to convince "everyone" how great it is .. Its been around long enough for those that had any interest in it , To check it out and it is Exactly what we thought ... Hence why most left
  • kinkyJalepenokinkyJalepeno KetteringMember UncommonPosts: 878
    Dammit where's the popcorn when ya need some...
  • CorileannaCorileanna Chelsea, MAMember UncommonPosts: 65
    I would have had better answers in the past, many are closed by now..

    SWG Emu, but i found it kinda empty and so different to learn..
    Eve maybe, or if you want a browser game, Illyriad, a deep not Pay2Win Castle Strategy game.
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXMember EpicPosts: 16,098
    edited July 4
    Scorchien said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    Scorchien said:
    Eldurian said:
    Scorchien said:

    And its nearly the same , you can create higher quality items in UO depending on ore and Blacksmithing /Mining /Armslore Skills  .. Wurm is just a slight alteration  to UOs system (no inovation in WUrm)and of course graphically different ...
    Totally not the same thing as the improvement system. You're describing the Life is Feudal system. In the Wurm system you actually put work in to create higher QL items. If you take 99 QL ore with 99 weaponsmithing and make a sword it will come out at only about 20 QL. Making a 90QL sword is the process of hours of improvement.

    That's not a "light alteration". It completely revolutionizes how crafting works to make crafting an actual process as opposed to just watching a timer before an item spits out. 

    It's not the epitome of what crafting systems can be, but it's hands down the best thing on the market right now.

    Wurm is definitely not a game for people who are bad at figuring things out. It's a heavy game with a lot of information to learn and digest. I can see why you don't like it. Just because you are ignorant of the subject at hand doesn't mean the innovation isn't there though. You clearly know almost nothing about this game. That's fine. Just don't speak like you do.
    ... we all have played WURM , ...
    absolute total horseshit.

    first off 'we all' is not some kind of clan around here, second off I dount very seriously that most MMORPG.com posters have played wurm. about 1/2 that claim that they have actually have and that 1/2 doesnt even make up most MMORPG posters
    Way to reach ... is that all you can grasp from that .. OK many of us have , And many of us left , not because its so Great , Because our clicking finger got numb while watching Netflix on a second monitor .....  Go enjoy your game and stop trying to convince "everyone" how great it is .. Its been around long enough for those that had any interest in it , To check it out and it is Exactly what we thought ... Hence why most left
    1. many of you have not.
    2. more claim to than actually have
    3. YOU are not WE so who the fuck is we exactly? no wait...dont answer that

    in the end those who have tried and gone back are doing what exactly? 
    Well they are saying 'na not really interested in more complex game play I want it basic, simple, repetitive and child like please

    Post edited by SEANMCAD on
    GdemamiScorchienpostlarvalExcession

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

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  • MikehaMikeha Member EpicPosts: 7,823
    Black Desert or Age Of Wushu
    Gdemami
  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 1,848
    Playing something for 5 minutes doesn't make you an expert. You don't even understand the difference between the improvement system and a "Skill Level + Plus Material Quality = Item Quality" system so obviously you either didn't play very long or didn't grasp it very well. Given how easy the GUI is to learn and optimize I have some theories on that.
    Gdemami
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXMember EpicPosts: 16,098
    edited July 4
    Eldurian said:
    Playing something for 5 minutes doesn't make you an expert. You don't even understand the difference between the improvement system and a "Skill Level + Plus Material Quality = Item Quality" system so obviously you either didn't play very long or didn't grasp it very well. Given how easy the GUI is to learn and optimize I have some theories on that.
    plus its worth mentioning that improving items in wurm increases your skill in that skill family which means the next time you make a new item its chance of being a higher quality is better and depending on the quality of the tools you use to make the item also increases the chance of its being higher quality.

    I think on the meta topic though, if one has to look all the way back to UO to find a game that has compelling crafting mechanics because the vast majority of modern MMOs can barely even spell the word is enough of a point in of itself.
    Post edited by SEANMCAD on
    Gdemami

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 1,848
    edited July 4
    Yeah the ability to improve your skill through item improvement is huge. For instance how I would level blacksmithing if I made a new character:

    Hammer (x2) (So I can improve my hammer with a hammer)
    Small Anvil
    Large Anvil
    Chisel
    File
    Shovel
    Pickaxe
    Hatchet 
    Rake
    Needle
    Lantern
    Frying Pan (x5) (So I can do more meals at a time)
    Still (x5)
    Sauce Pan (x2)
    Cauldron (x2) 
    Fork
    Spoon
    Knife (Cooking)
    Scissors 
    Trowel
    Horse Shoes (x20) (4 horses for a wagon and one for riding)
    Iron Lamps / Torches (x?) (As needed to light my deed.)

    And just rotate through them all imping them up as high as I can go with my current skill. I'd also throw these bulk items:

    +1000 Small Nails
    +1000 Large Nails
    +100 Iron Ribbons
    +? Iron Fence Bars (As needed for deed fencing)

    And create / imp things other people in my village needed as asked and re-imping any of my tools that got degraded through usage. That's what makes Wurm grinding bearable to me. Even though it has the longest grind of any game I've ever played and I hate grinding, it doesn't really feel like grinding because I do practical work with a practical purpose and the skills come as kind of a side thing.

    I don't make 10,000 daggers which I just delete or vendor to get my skill up. I just work in my profession and watch the skill raise as I do.
    Post edited by Eldurian on
    Gdemami
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXMember EpicPosts: 16,098
    edited July 5
    and improving is a mini game in of itself. needs various tools, those tools should be of good quality as well.

    its a fair statement that Wurm is far deeper in crafting then anything I have seen in the MMO world. In single player I have seen some that are debatable just as deep but its marginal but not more for sure.

    So I think the core observation is yes..if one is looking for a game with good deep crafting they need to look at Wurm, if they do not like the game that is fine, but they should not be Emo about it crying a thousand salty tears pretending like the game doesnt even exist and instead ask why is there not a AAA visual amazing game with crafting like Wurm which is a more valid quesiton.

    i dont mind people not liking a game, I mind them pretending like it doesnt exist at all and then cry about how there isnt any crafting games. yes they are out there and if we are to move forward in gaming we need to look at them and see how they can be improved instead of saying 'oh it can never happen! its technically too hard! there is nothing out there! give me a razor blade I am ending it now!' its silly
    Post edited by SEANMCAD on
    Gdemami

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • SinsaiSinsai Reno, NVMember UncommonPosts: 359
    Ryzom

    image

  • ScorchienScorchien Hatboro, PAMember EpicPosts: 4,034
    Eldurian said:
    Playing something for 5 minutes doesn't make you an expert. You don't even understand the difference between the improvement system and a "Skill Level + Plus Material Quality = Item Quality" system so obviously you either didn't play very long or didn't grasp it very well. Given how easy the GUI is to learn and optimize I have some theories on that.
    Assuming again ...

      Lets clear something up i Played Wurm long ago on Chaos , for near a year , got involved with a decent group , managed to build a house , got involved in some PvP , and what little weak PVE the game offers , But quit because i was Fucking bored to tears ....

      tryed again later during the Land Rush on Independence i think it was.... Built a small house i was happier with as there was better land to grab at that time ... But quit again .. Because i was Fucking Bored to tears ...

       Later when Steam offered Wurm unlimited , 4or 5 friends wanted to get it and build our own little town , i was reluctant as the nauseum from the first two attempts hadnt settled ..

            But , friends convinced that with the rule tweaks on our server blah blah it would be better ...

      We  built a little town .. and then everyone quit because we were Fucking bored to tears ...

                  Wurm is a terrbly boring game and the reason it has near no players .. Boring combined with the worst UI and clunky arse engine ,terrible combat , and inexcusably bad PVE  wont keep many people around ....

      If i were you i would go play my game i love so much before it shutters , as on the official forums players are asking for server mergers ,in already sparse population ...


  • lqw6843128lqw6843128 burnaby, BCMember UncommonPosts: 40
    Wurm online if u haven't tried.
    I don't play it anymore, but i will still recommend Wurm Online (not Wurm Unlimited) to anyone that looks for a great sandbox mmo experience. 

    -------------------------
    Btw, no need to bash a good game. All games become boring af eventually, so just move on to new games ffs. That's just the nature of gaming.



  • HatefullHatefull Member RarePosts: 1,473
    Sinsai said:
    Ryzom
    IS that game still alive?

    If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

  • ThorkuneThorkune Eastern, KYMember UncommonPosts: 1,969
    Until they make a GOOD totally player driven economy MMO, crafting is pretty much worthless. To me, SWG in its heyday, was the ultimate crafting system. I have tried all of the so called best crafting systems to date and I have been disappointed in pretty much all of them. In the ones I have tried, you either had good crafting in a bad game or you get the same old mind numbing system that's in most current games. I honestly believe the days of complex crafting is over. Of the current games, I find that ESO has a decent system due to the options you have concerning research, crafting, extracting, upgrading gear, etc... 
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXMember EpicPosts: 16,098
    Thorkune said:
    Until they make a GOOD totally player driven economy MMO, crafting is pretty much worthless. To me, SWG in its heyday, was the ultimate crafting system. I have tried all of the so called best crafting systems to date and I have been disappointed in pretty much all of them. In the ones I have tried, you either had good crafting in a bad game or you get the same old mind numbing system that's in most current games. I honestly believe the days of complex crafting is over. Of the current games, I find that ESO has a decent system due to the options you have concerning research, crafting, extracting, upgrading gear, etc... 
    Games that have crafting in them that arent for total shit its different.

    crafting is required to stay alive.
    Gdemami

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • sunandshadowsunandshadow Pittsburgh, PAMember UncommonPosts: 1,698
    Thorkune said:
    Until they make a GOOD totally player driven economy MMO, crafting is pretty much worthless. To me, SWG in its heyday, was the ultimate crafting system. I have tried all of the so called best crafting systems to date and I have been disappointed in pretty much all of them. In the ones I have tried, you either had good crafting in a bad game or you get the same old mind numbing system that's in most current games. I honestly believe the days of complex crafting is over. Of the current games, I find that ESO has a decent system due to the options you have concerning research, crafting, extracting, upgrading gear, etc... 
    What about crafting as solo play n a player-excluded or player-restricted economy?  Crafting shouldn't primarily be about money, it should be about making stuff that you want to use.
    I want to help design and develop a PvE-focused, solo-friendly, sandpark MMO which combines crafting, monster hunting, and story.  So PM me if you are starting one.
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXMember EpicPosts: 16,098
    Thorkune said:
    Until they make a GOOD totally player driven economy MMO, crafting is pretty much worthless. To me, SWG in its heyday, was the ultimate crafting system. I have tried all of the so called best crafting systems to date and I have been disappointed in pretty much all of them. In the ones I have tried, you either had good crafting in a bad game or you get the same old mind numbing system that's in most current games. I honestly believe the days of complex crafting is over. Of the current games, I find that ESO has a decent system due to the options you have concerning research, crafting, extracting, upgrading gear, etc... 
    What about crafting as solo play n a player-excluded or player-restricted economy?  Crafting shouldn't primarily be about money, it should be about making stuff that you want to use.
    thats the difference in understanding between people who have played more crafting focused games and those who have not.

    Those without the experience have a HUGE deficient in understanding
    GdemamiKyleran

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

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