So I tried SWL but...

tharkthark FalunMember UncommonPosts: 1,188
I feeling torn about this game, Secret World has ALWAYS been the perfect gameworld for me, when the old game released it was wonderful and very engaging, unfortunatly alot of Funcom trolls destroyed their game by telling people it had bad combat and poor animations, some where obviously confused by "the skillwheel" , Players with ADHD and poor Reading skills would be at a disadvantage since they obviously didnt take their time to Think for 2 minutes, but this was NOT the game for them.


Ok So I spent some time in Kingsmouth , running around, guns blazing, basically its the same game but 10 times easier, was SW hard to begin with ? NO , just NO but you coudn't run around like an idiot.  you had to Think , and look..


So will I be playing this "newb friendly version" !! NO ..It's just to outdated , there are far better games out there that demands attention. But all of you that didn't play it back then should really play it even thou I'm certain the original is the better game, but atleast you will have some players here.

If they have been takin their time and "re-do" the whole game maybe to something  like Mass Effect' Andromeda style, or a first person shooter style ,that would have made SWL fresh and the stories could have been played trough again, but now there isn't really any reason at ALL..It's the same game but on ease mode.

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Comments

  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKMember LegendaryPosts: 17,121
    i am in the same boat OP  - I enjoyed the original game a lot more. Legends is not my cup of tea.
    Po_ggpostlarvalpantaro
  • RealizerRealizer Member RarePosts: 674
     Yeah it was rushed and lackluster for sure. They are also getting heavy pushback from their community for the monetization.  They are charging premium MMO prices for a game that still has bugs known about 4+ years ago. 
  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Elmira, ONMember EpicPosts: 5,879
    Just a thought, but it sounds like you're assuming that they redesigned the game for YOU. I could be wrong, but based on what I've heard and seen (I haven't actually played it yet), the game was definitely not designed with the current, existing crowd in mind. My guess is that was quite intentional. After all, why would they redesign a game for a small crowd of people who probably wouldn't like it anyway? My guess is this was redesigned specifically to cater to the larger mass market, hence the simplified gameplay and easy mode difficulty. 

    Personally, I played the original, but I'll probably only go back and play through this again if I'm doing it with my kids, and two of them aren't huge MMO fans, so I think it's a good bet I'll be playing through it at some point. For how long? Who knows. Guess it depends on how well they redesigned it to appeal to people who dislike MMOs, lol.
    MrMelGibson

    Crazkanuk

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  • aslan132aslan132 Tampa, FLMember UncommonPosts: 511
    I played the original in alpha, and the tried again in beta. I knew right off it wasnt the game for me. I was one of those who thought the combat was terrible enough to not even bother to buy the game once it released. I loved the story, the atmosphere, and the questing ( more games should do investigation type missions). But no matter how I tried, I just couldnt get passed the awful combat and skillwheel. 

    So now Im playing SWL. So far (only done the first couple zones) its the game I wish the original was. Has alot more normal MMO elements, and the weapon trees are more like trait trees or Alternate Advancement trees in other MMOs. I gotta say, Im having a blast, and the story, atmosphere and unique questing systems just make it the perfect game. Sure its not for everyone, and if you liked the original, its probably not the game for you. But if you enjoy typical MMOs features and UI, you will probably enjoy Legends. 

    It does suck for players of the original, and Im sorry you lost your game, but this one has the potential to reach alot more players and sync with the typical MMOer. They had to make a decision to either cater to a small but loyal base, or try to reach and expand to a larger audience. They chose to expand, and it may cost them the small and loyal players, but will probably make them more profit in the long run. 
    MrMelGibsonPo_ggOctagon7711
  • RealizerRealizer Member RarePosts: 674
    CrazKanuk said:
    Just a thought, but it sounds like you're assuming that they redesigned the game for YOU. I could be wrong, but based on what I've heard and seen (I haven't actually played it yet), the game was definitely not designed with the current, existing crowd in mind. My guess is that was quite intentional. After all, why would they redesign a game for a small crowd of people who probably wouldn't like it anyway? My guess is this was redesigned specifically to cater to the larger mass market, hence the simplified gameplay and easy mode difficulty. 

    Personally, I played the original, but I'll probably only go back and play through this again if I'm doing it with my kids, and two of them aren't huge MMO fans, so I think it's a good bet I'll be playing through it at some point. For how long? Who knows. Guess it depends on how well they redesigned it to appeal to people who dislike MMOs, lol.
    Well if their intentions were to bring in new steam players or new players in general and get them interested in spending, it seems they've failed. 
    MrMelGibsonalkarionlogJoseph_Kerr
  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaMember EpicPosts: 13,180
    edited June 30
    Too many ,maybe MOST don't like to read long posts,so i'll make it short.

    TSW was NOT well designed and combat was not well designed and too much restriction and prediction makes it like AOC,more a single player game than a MMO.I understand why devs tag on the MMO flag,it opens up the opportunity to make more money when a game does not deserve to make more money.

    Yes i have played a LOT of games over the years,i have been spoiled by the best systems from all genres,so now a days it is tough for a half assed effort to win me over,i need to see a skilled knowledgeable director/producer making these games.

    BTW i quit TSW after a couple days but was wanting out from the first few minutes,it looked that bad of a design.So to think some minimal changes to try and rehash the same old would at all interest me is a far stretch of the truth.Funcom needs to get serious about MMO game design or get otu and make single player games.FFXIV a game i was a huge fan of before release couldn't win me over with paltry changes so TSW most certainly would have to do a LOT better.
    Post edited by Wizardry on

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  • tharkthark FalunMember UncommonPosts: 1,188
    CrazKanuk said:
    Just a thought, but it sounds like you're assuming that they redesigned the game for YOU. I could be wrong, but based on what I've heard and seen (I haven't actually played it yet), the game was definitely not designed with the current, existing crowd in mind. My guess is that was quite intentional. After all, why would they redesign a game for a small crowd of people who probably wouldn't like it anyway? My guess is this was redesigned specifically to cater to the larger mass market, hence the simplified gameplay and easy mode difficulty. 

    Personally, I played the original, but I'll probably only go back and play through this again if I'm doing it with my kids, and two of them aren't huge MMO fans, so I think it's a good bet I'll be playing through it at some point. For how long? Who knows. Guess it depends on how well they redesigned it to appeal to people who dislike MMOs, lol.
    I Think they did it to earn Money from a product that was dieing, so by making this sk re-release they could market it as a "new" release , so now they can earn money from this product again.  It's still the same MMO it was back then, I didn't see any diffrence , but SW and SWL is special in that department , it's not the same as "others" so your kids may like it..but even kids needs a challenge and it's hardly this game. :)

    CrazKanuk
  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Elmira, ONMember EpicPosts: 5,879
    thark said:
    CrazKanuk said:
    Just a thought, but it sounds like you're assuming that they redesigned the game for YOU. I could be wrong, but based on what I've heard and seen (I haven't actually played it yet), the game was definitely not designed with the current, existing crowd in mind. My guess is that was quite intentional. After all, why would they redesign a game for a small crowd of people who probably wouldn't like it anyway? My guess is this was redesigned specifically to cater to the larger mass market, hence the simplified gameplay and easy mode difficulty. 

    Personally, I played the original, but I'll probably only go back and play through this again if I'm doing it with my kids, and two of them aren't huge MMO fans, so I think it's a good bet I'll be playing through it at some point. For how long? Who knows. Guess it depends on how well they redesigned it to appeal to people who dislike MMOs, lol.
    I Think they did it to earn Money from a product that was dieing, so by making this sk re-release they could market it as a "new" release , so now they can earn money from this product again.  It's still the same MMO it was back then, I didn't see any diffrence , but SW and SWL is special in that department , it's not the same as "others" so your kids may like it..but even kids needs a challenge and it's hardly this game. :)


    Yeah, that's sort of my feeling. What's unfortunate is that I feel like they marketed it to their existing user-base more than extending that marketing beyond and into new markets. Like, shit, re-release some of the original marketing trailers, but towards ARPG markets. TSW, to this day, still has some of the best trailers I think I've ever seen. I'd even say that they rival WoW. 

    I'm hoping my kids do like it. Nothing like having a full raid party under the same roof! My wife will probably want to shoot herself, but I guess she can always go shopping or something :P

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • crasset15crasset15 Member UncommonPosts: 194
    I played TSW for 3000 hours and only made it to the start of Transylvania in SWL. It's almost impossible to make interesting builds anymore because the new skill system forces you on rails.

    Lets take rifle for example. 15 active skills to choose from, and then like 20 passives which all modify those 15 actives in some way. You can't take passives from other weapons anymore to create interesting builds because all of them modify a single skill in their specific tree instead of being universally useful.

    15 is actually a lie as well because 5 of them are true damage skills, 5 of them are heals and 5 are grenades (no point slotting more than 1 grenade) so if you want to be a rifle based damage dealer, you have a choice from:
    1 single target basic attack
    1 aoe resource consumer
    1 single target resource consumer
    1 skill that instantly generates 4 resources on a 20 second cooldown
    1 elite ability with 2 second cast time and 20 second cooldown
    5 grenade skills, only 1 of them is direct dps one, the rest are either half-heals or have a long cooldown
    Po_ggsimmihiOctagon7711
  • RealizerRealizer Member RarePosts: 674
    edited June 30
     Well on the bright side their dev stream an hour ago showed that they are listening to the feedback. They are adding rewards for patrons, and fixing bugs. We will see what they deliver with their next patch.

     It sounded like a step in the right direction at least, but there's still a lot of work to be done if they want to be competitive in the market.
    Post edited by Realizer on
  • JDis25JDis25 Member RarePosts: 1,313
    Just because the first zones quests are easy, can you really make the argument that the whole game has absolutely no challenge and is just a reskin of hello kitty online?
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  • ExcessionExcession NottinghamMember RarePosts: 709
    crasset15 said:
    I played TSW for 3000 hours and only made it to the start of Transylvania in SWL. It's almost impossible to make interesting builds anymore because the new skill system forces you on rails.

    Lets take rifle for example. 15 active skills to choose from, and then like 20 passives which all modify those 15 actives in some way. You can't take passives from other weapons anymore to create interesting builds because all of them modify a single skill in their specific tree instead of being universally useful.

    15 is actually a lie as well because 5 of them are true damage skills, 5 of them are heals and 5 are grenades (no point slotting more than 1 grenade) so if you want to be a rifle based damage dealer, you have a choice from:
    1 single target basic attack
    1 aoe resource consumer
    1 single target resource consumer
    1 skill that instantly generates 4 resources on a 20 second cooldown
    1 elite ability with 2 second cast time and 20 second cooldown
    5 grenade skills, only 1 of them is direct dps one, the rest are either half-heals or have a long cooldown
    You start out saying 15 Active skill's, which is correct, then, for some strange reason, claim it is actually only 5, as only 5 are "true damage" skills.

    15 active skills, is 15 active skills, regardless of what those skills actually do.

    A creative person is motivated by the desire to achieve, not the desire to beat others.

  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCMember LegendaryPosts: 10,263
    This was not re-designed for that small hardcore crowd who still plays TSW 5 years later. What you guys wanted - and I don't blame you since you've been invested in this for a long time- is more intricate challenges, better end-game and a graphics and animation overhaul... for a a game that has become smaller and more niche over time. You wanted a near-bankrupt company to spend lots of development time and money catering to a very small audience, gambling that those changes would bring in the crowds and the money.

    Funcom, OTOH, needs money now. So they're instead trying to appeal to a new crowd and bring new players, most of them casuals, into the game. It's no surprise really that the vast majority of the TSW hardcore hate the changes since these are not the changes you've been wanting. In many ways its the opposite of what you wanted.

    Me? I only spent a few months in TSW back when it released and mostly enjoyed it but moved on and never really looked back. So I'm enjoying this stroll down memory lane and frankly, the simplification of weapons and abilities suits me just fine since needing to re-learn a complex system in order to experience the stories and world again would have been more of a roadblock for me than an inducement.

    This new SWL is not perfect by any means - least of which the ham-fisted monetization and ill-conceived Patron benefits that barely provide any relief from that...

    But all in all, I'm having fun with it and Funcom has managed to generate a lot of new buzz with an old IP. Enough buzz maybe that they may be able to stop bailing water and just sail on for a few more years... and that's not bad thing. A bad thing would have been TSW shutting down which is exactly where things were heading before this reboot. 
    Azaron_NightbladeMrMelGibsonOctagon7711DistopiaKyleran
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  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Algo Star SystemMember EpicPosts: 2,020
    Admitting The Secret World combat, character models, and animation are bad makes you a troll now? Wow. Cool.



    SenanOctagon7711
  • SenanSenan Tuscaloosa, ALMember UncommonPosts: 786
    Yeah, I thought that was funny too.

    image
  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairMember EpicPosts: 7,956
    edited June 30
    Realizer said:
     Yeah it was rushed and lackluster for sure. They are also getting heavy pushback from their community for the monetization.  They are charging premium MMO prices for a game that still has bugs known about 4+ years ago. 
    Sounds like Anarchy Online......except the bugs aren't 4+ years ago, they are 14+ years ago.......typical Funcom.

    Having been a long time subscriber of AO, I had a chance to Beta the original SW.
    After about 2hrs, I uninstalled, never looked back.
    Post edited by GeezerGamer on
    RealizerHariken
  • sumdumguy1sumdumguy1 A galaxy far far awayMember UncommonPosts: 1,142
    I liked TSW and like SWL.  I maybe one of the few who likes both.  I think I get what their long term plan was for this game which is a console release.  Everything feels to me like it would cater to a console crowd with the changes they made.  I do think the monetization system is wacky but I don't think they do enough for the subscribers.  I have played this game thus far and spent not one dime and don't anticipate doing so, but I do think many people will take advantage of some of the things.  I don't understand how someone could spend $200 to make their weapons max level in Savage Coast, the second game area but that's them.  I do feel there are improvement and the game is easier, however, I have not finished the game all the way through in SWL.  This time I am taking my time and leveling multiple characters/weapons.
    psychosiz1
  • MrMelGibsonMrMelGibson USAMember EpicPosts: 2,316
    Iselin said:
    This was not re-designed for that small hardcore crowd who still plays TSW 5 years later. What you guys wanted - and I don't blame you since you've been invested in this for a long time- is more intricate challenges, better end-game and a graphics and animation overhaul... for a a game that has become smaller and more niche over time. You wanted a near-bankrupt company to spend lots of development time and money catering to a very small audience, gambling that those changes would bring in the crowds and the money.

    Funcom, OTOH, needs money now. So they're instead trying to appeal to a new crowd and bring new players, most of them casuals, into the game. It's no surprise really that the vast majority of the TSW hardcore hate the changes since these are not the changes you've been wanting. In many ways its the opposite of what you wanted.

    Me? I only spent a few months in TSW back when it released and mostly enjoyed it but moved on and never really looked back. So I'm enjoying this stroll down memory lane and frankly, the simplification of weapons and abilities suits me just fine since needing to re-learn a complex system in order to experience the stories and world again would have been more of a roadblock for me than an inducement.

    This new SWL is not perfect by any means - least of which the ham-fisted monetization and ill-conceived Patron benefits that barely provide any relief from that...

    But all in all, I'm having fun with it and Funcom has managed to generate a lot of new buzz with an old IP. Enough buzz maybe that they may be able to stop bailing water and just sail on for a few more years... and that's not bad thing. A bad thing would have been TSW shutting down which is exactly where things were heading before this reboot. 
    I agree with you.  The reality is that even people within the small hardcore crowd will still play this because of time invested and also I'm sure some of them like it.  Even if a small vocal minority tells you otherwise :wink:

    I also believe that the new combat system is probably easier to transition over to a console mmo.  It wouldn't surprise me to see this as the next move if this relaunch is what Funcom was hoping for.  After all, ESO did really well and I'm guessing still is doing well on consoles.  That market is kind of fresh for mmos.  There have been mmos on consoles for quite a bit (FF11 for example).  But the selection has always been slim at best.  SWL would be a fresh mmo for console gamers as well.  Just my opinion.
    Octagon7711Distopia
  • Po_ggPo_gg Twigwarren, WestfarthingMember RarePosts: 4,130
    edited July 1
    aslan132 said:
    Sure its not for everyone, and if you liked the original, its probably not the game for you. But if you enjoy typical MMOs features and UI, you will probably enjoy Legends. 

    It does suck for players of the original, and Im sorry you lost your game, but this one has the potential to reach alot more players and sync with the typical MMOer.
    That's exactly the case, the one of the great things of TSW was that it wasn't the typical MMO in making, that's why there were design notes, dev diaries about how certain elements are differ from the "same old".

    Legends is much more like a regular MMO grinder (painfully so, based on the videos I saw), but because of that I too agree it might reach a wider group. I am surely not in that group...
    Luckily a friend of mine is, so I can get my money back from my GM purchase, by passing it over to him (and as I've heard they plan to give more value to the patron status, so I might ask for an even higher price :smiley: )
    Post edited by Po_gg on
  • FrammshammFrammshamm TokyoMember UncommonPosts: 304
    thark said:
    I feeling torn about this game, Secret World has ALWAYS been the perfect gameworld for me, when the old game released it was wonderful and very engaging, unfortunatly alot of Funcom trolls destroyed their game by telling people it had bad combat and poor animations, some where obviously confused by "the skillwheel" , Players with ADHD and poor Reading skills would be at a disadvantage since they obviously didnt take their time to Think for 2 minutes, but this was NOT the game for them.




    Being one of these people with ADHDAHADA, I found it impossible to get through your 6 line run-on sentence with 6 comma splices and zero periods.

    TLDR: If you didn't like the original SW or Funcom, then you must not be as cool as the OP.
    tharkMrMelGibson
  • Po_ggPo_gg Twigwarren, WestfarthingMember RarePosts: 4,130
    Iselin said:
    Funcom, OTOH, needs money now. So they're instead trying to appeal to a new crowd and bring new players, most of them casuals, into the game. It's no surprise really that the vast majority of the TSW hardcore hate the changes since these are not the changes you've been wanting. In many ways its the opposite of what you wanted.
    Not "wanted", it was promised over the year - then turned out to be lie just to keep players (and payers) ingame, and even brought back new ones. Ultimate Ed. sale at the end of the year, with Season 2 (allegedly) arrives in a month? And shortly after "your game is dead, but hey, we start a new one", very shady, even by Funcom standards.

    And nope, they don't need the money now. That's what made possible the Legends switch the first place, they've hitted jackpot with Exiles and the one-time cash income last summer. Without that TSW would still be here, on maintenance mode, while they'd work on the new standalone game (which is now also delayed since they're waist-deep in enhancing and expanding Exiles while it has the flow).
    Iselin said:
    A bad thing would have been TSW shutting down which is exactly where things were heading before this reboot. 
    That is also not correct, though it was a popular view after the announcement. They themselves admitted it in the interview with Justin (lol, admit... it was in the financial report as well, so they had no choice) that TSW was fine, just they couldn't see any chance to squeeze more dough out of it beyond the monthly income it earns. Which in Funcom terms means maintenance mode, like AO and AoC. Which would've been fine for the community, especially in light of the present events...

    But since they got the financial breathing space, they went instead on gambling with the game. If Legends flops massively, there's still the money from Exiles. If it just manages, barely, then it's good already in the books even with the loss of TSW's income. But if it reaches the new target audience, the beancounters can open the champagne...

    And in the meantime, what's with their loyal community? Screw them, who cares, right? Until the numbers are in the green, Funcom surely don't.
    simmihi
  • BruceYeeBruceYee Member RarePosts: 1,085
    Can't wait for the re-package of SWL into something else like Secret World Forever or Secret World Reborn in a couple years.
  • tharkthark FalunMember UncommonPosts: 1,188
    edited July 1
    Admitting The Secret World combat, character models, and animation are bad makes you a troll now? Wow. Cool.



    Well not really :) but In the case of SW , it was pure harrasment by players who didn't really play the game, or just tried it during open beta . I had 6 or 7 friends who all enjoyed SW  and NONE of them even mentioned the poor animations or the poor combat.  We had fun with that game :) then the bitter crowd destroyed it.
    Post edited by thark on
  • simmihisimmihi -Member UncommonPosts: 648
    edited July 1
    The skills are uninteresting, there is no choice. You want shotgun damage? Here's 5 useful active skills for you and that's it. Using passives from other weapons is nonsense now. Also, here's less actives and passives for you, because why not. By taking away the wheel and synergies, they killed most of the interesting parts left to do in the game at endgame.

    After the "relaunch" rush will end, people will realize how boring and bland is to play Secret World like you play WoW, and that for this kind of gaming there are better alternatives on the market. Secret World does not have a massive ammount of endgame content.

    All that us "bitter vets" are saying is that we know what's there. The story is short, you can get to Tokyo in a week of decently casual play if you know what you're doing. After the story ends and the grinds begin, people will leave in droves. If Funcom does not change the AEGIS grind, the epic upgrade grind, the augments grind (and i strongly believe they have to keep these grinds, as they don't have a game without that), you'll probably have to repeat the same quests every 8 hours (if patron) to go from item level 25.0.0 to itemlevel 25.10.10 or whatever for every piece of weapon and talisman, you'll probably have to do the same 3 long and annoying scenarios every day for augments etc. The grind is insane (how does a half year grind sound? now with 3 days quest cooldown unless patron, maybe more) and very very boring. Oh, you might be able to pay your way through all this, seems possible now, if that's your thing.

    I wish all the best to the new players and yes, the game is worth playing at least through story. Have fun with it, and try not to bash old players, they usually know what they're talking about. Maybe we're too vocal, some of us, but on the other hand there's a limited number of "I've played through half of Kingsmouth at launch and I say these are exactly the changes the game needed" we can take.
    Post edited by simmihi on
    Po_gg
  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Algo Star SystemMember EpicPosts: 2,020
    thark said:
    Admitting The Secret World combat, character models, and animation are bad makes you a troll now? Wow. Cool.



    Well not really :) but In the case of SW , it was pure harrasment by players who didn't really play the game, or just tried it during open beta . I had 6 or 7 friends who all enjoyed SW  and NONE of them even mentioned the poor animations or the poor combat.  We had fun with that game :) then the bitter crowd destroyed it.
    How did the bitter crowd destroy it if the complaints were accurate and warranted?

    Here I thought it was the terrible Aegis system, lack of support, huge gaps between updates, waiting years to update the main story, and absolutely ignoring the PVP community that destroyed it.

    Well at least they took the same game repackaged it with "Legends" and put a reticle on the screen then retarded down other things that no one complained about. Thank God for FUncom. This totally isn't a short term play, and they totally won't be announcing console release in a couple months as part of exit strategy.
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