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Summer Web Sale and some news that just went down

13

Comments

  • RealizerRealizer Member RarePosts: 724
    edited June 2017
    Am I too early for the 4th of July sale? Or will it be Black Friday?  
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,435
    Iselin said:
    Yet another over-promise, under-deliver KS campaign.  
    None of them deliver until they deliver.

    You guys do know you're talking about a game that may or may not be launched in 2022... right?
    I know that.  You know that. But why then does the Summer Sale" still show a delivery date of December 2018?

    Again, Say what you mean and do what you say.
    The 2018 "delivery" date will be wordsmithed several times eventually landing on some term such as alpha, pre-alpha, early access or perhaps some creative new state knowing Steve.

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 16,947
    Kyleran said:
    Iselin said:
    Yet another over-promise, under-deliver KS campaign.  
    None of them deliver until they deliver.

    You guys do know you're talking about a game that may or may not be launched in 2022... right?
    I know that.  You know that. But why then does the Summer Sale" still show a delivery date of December 2018?

    Again, Say what you mean and do what you say.
    The 2018 "delivery" date will be wordsmithed several times eventually landing on some term such as alpha, pre-alpha, early access or perhaps some creative new state knowing Steve.
    But the package showing Dec 18 has no Alpha, Beta or Early Access...

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,435
    Kyleran said:
    Iselin said:
    Yet another over-promise, under-deliver KS campaign.  
    None of them deliver until they deliver.

    You guys do know you're talking about a game that may or may not be launched in 2022... right?
    I know that.  You know that. But why then does the Summer Sale" still show a delivery date of December 2018?

    Again, Say what you mean and do what you say.
    The 2018 "delivery" date will be wordsmithed several times eventually landing on some term such as alpha, pre-alpha, early access or perhaps some creative new state knowing Steve.
    But the package showing Dec 18 has no Alpha, Beta or Early Access...
      Yet!

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,435
    Nyctelios said:
    Torval said:
    Nyctelios said:
    Ponzini said:
    Distopia said:
    When you lay with the devil, you get burned. In this case the devil being business.....

    In the pursuit of money and success people are nothing but a stepping stone. People need to come to grips with that. Exclusives are rarely truly exclusive, in the entertainment industry especially. How do you think people who spend hundreds on convention exclusives (including price of entry/hotel stays etc..) feel when they see it on Thinkgeek for pennies to the dollar of what they paid? 

    The only decision you can trust these folks to make is the one that leads to more funds, that's the bottom line. 
    Man you guys are so dramatic. This was an extension of the kickstarter for 1 month for people who couldn't take part in the regular kickstarter campaign. How shit would it be to not include the same rewards everyone else got? Not everything has to be a scandal, my dudes. 
    Took you long enough
    Not quicker than you, slappy, and the happy crew. Think about that from your glass house.
    Yeah. I saw the video online and look how many people came here before me, but sure, I'm your anti christ, go on.
    Which got me to thinking, the best thing about living in a glass house is you can see so much more clearly than other folks it seems.

    :)

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 16,947
    Torval said:
    Torval said:
    Nyctelios said:
    Ponzini said:
    Distopia said:
    When you lay with the devil, you get burned. In this case the devil being business.....

    In the pursuit of money and success people are nothing but a stepping stone. People need to come to grips with that. Exclusives are rarely truly exclusive, in the entertainment industry especially. How do you think people who spend hundreds on convention exclusives (including price of entry/hotel stays etc..) feel when they see it on Thinkgeek for pennies to the dollar of what they paid? 

    The only decision you can trust these folks to make is the one that leads to more funds, that's the bottom line. 
    Man you guys are so dramatic. This was an extension of the kickstarter for 1 month for people who couldn't take part in the regular kickstarter campaign. How shit would it be to not include the same rewards everyone else got? Not everything has to be a scandal, my dudes. 
    Took you long enough
    Not quicker than you, slappy, and the happy crew. Think about that from your glass house.
    Me?  All I did was point out that it only took 3 weeks for them to break the "Kickstarter Exclusive" statement.  Don't worry... lots more to come.


    For the record yeah I agree that any company would be crazy to turn away revenue... that doesn't excuse blatant lying though.  If something is a Kickstarter Exclusive that means if goes away after Kickstarter.  There is no wiggle room.   If you want to sell it after Kickstarter don't call it an exclusive.  It's a pretty simple concept.

    Say what you mean and do what you say.  Simple stuff.


    What does that have to do with what I said? You and your slappy crew jumped on here with your drama train, quicker than anyone else, no? Yeah.

    And for the record we all know you like to point fingers, thrown stones, and make vague accusations based on twisted half truths. You guys could make a club called the truth twisters and pat yourselves on the back and keep track of who slings the most mud or make the most clever underhanded comment. That's just an observation of all you ever bring to a discussion in these threads.
    My accusation was neither vague nor a half truth.  They sold a Kickstarter Exclusive Lifetime Sub.  They elected to sell it again in their Summer Sale.  Sorry if facts get in the way of defending this but it's pretty clearly black and white. 
    Kyleran

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 19,332
    I saw an interesting quote on Massively a while back concerning modern MMO development.  It was something along the lines of, "When there is more effort and innovation put into how to monetize a game than into the gameplay itself, this is what you get."
    I have used this same quote a few times in the past and it is becoming a very common trend among game devs.Just look at how fast some of these games pop out and already have a full cash shop but very little game.Many games now are already selling cash shop well before there is even a game,actually the majority are doing it.

    So we used to scoff at devs using ANY kind of cash shop,now they seem to be getting away with it before they have a game,so where did we go wrong?Well your fellow gamer's are to blame for supporting such rubbish.
    99% of the cash shop/monetizing in games should NOT be there.The majority of games are just cheap single player games and should carry a one time fee of 5-15 bucks and no more.The better games should be a one time fee of 30-75 bucks and nothing more.i have said it for awhile now,MOST games should NOT have a login screen or claim to be a MMO,they only utilize their games as a mmo/login so they can support a cash shop.



    Jacobin

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    Just out of curiosity, was it ever said that this would never be offered again? To be honest, I went back on web archive and the Image never said Exclusive, but the KS packages DID say exclusive. HOWEVER, this whole exclusive argument is pointless because you could offer lifetime subscription as an "exclusive" in two different packages. Exclusive doesn't seem to mean what some believe it to mean. It sounds flashy, but it really doesn't mean what people think it does. 

    It's actually funny because people seem to pick and choose what terms that they want to use literal definitions for. In this case, the literal definition makes no mention of it never being offered again. Unless that was stated somewhere else, in which case I'd agree. I haven't seen that, though, although I haven't searched all that much. 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 16,947
    Huh?  Kickstarter Exclusive means it's only available on Kickstarter.  Are we really going to debate what Exclusive means? SMH

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 10,610
    Iselin said:
    Yet another over-promise, under-deliver KS campaign.  
    None of them deliver until they deliver.

    You guys do know you're talking about a game that may or may not be launched in 2022... right?
    I know that.  You know that. But why then does the Summer Sale" still show a delivery date of December 2018?

    Again, Say what you mean and do what you say.
    Delivery date has been covered many times, thats for the start of Alpha and Beta not game launch. Little reading explains that.
    [Deleted User]Slapshot1188
  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 10,610
    Huh?  Kickstarter Exclusive means it's only available on Kickstarter.  Are we really going to debate what Exclusive means? SMH
    So do you keep all promises no matter what the cost? Picture a world that lived by that. As imperfect people we make mistakes, even in our good will of making promises. Steve set up the KS with the mind set to make us happy in backing IS. Later he saw a problem that needed to be addressed. He posted he made a mistake and would correct it. He did the right thing in breaking his promise to show all fans of the game they mattered. Not just people who had a credit card. This is the kind of game company I like to follow. Willing to make things right, even when they have to take a little mud in the face. I am cheering on the side line over this action and hope they keep walking in the same direction. They won me over a little more with this.
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 16,947
    Nanfoodle said:
    Iselin said:
    Yet another over-promise, under-deliver KS campaign.  
    None of them deliver until they deliver.

    You guys do know you're talking about a game that may or may not be launched in 2022... right?
    I know that.  You know that. But why then does the Summer Sale" still show a delivery date of December 2018?

    Again, Say what you mean and do what you say.
    Delivery date has been covered many times, thats for the start of Alpha and Beta not game launch. Little reading explains that.
    So help me with my reading.   The $25 package has no Alpha or Beta associated with it.  It's ETA is Dec 18.  Why?

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 10,610
    edited June 2017
    Nanfoodle said:
    Iselin said:
    Yet another over-promise, under-deliver KS campaign.  
    None of them deliver until they deliver.

    You guys do know you're talking about a game that may or may not be launched in 2022... right?
    I know that.  You know that. But why then does the Summer Sale" still show a delivery date of December 2018?

    Again, Say what you mean and do what you say.
    Delivery date has been covered many times, thats for the start of Alpha and Beta not game launch. Little reading explains that.
    So help me with my reading.   The $25 package has no Alpha or Beta associated with it.  It's ETA is Dec 18.  Why?
    FAQ right off the KS page....

    Kickstarter Alphas is currently scheduled to launch in 2018, with Betas following after that. Note, this schedule is subject to change based on development milestones.
    ____________________________________________________________________________

    Keep stirring the pot, you only getting poop all over yourself. 

    EDIT: Also you are not new to MMOs, everyone knows projected dates are always placeholders and subject to change depending on RL happening at every turn. 

    RexKushmanDistopia[Deleted User]
  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    Huh?  Kickstarter Exclusive means it's only available on Kickstarter.  Are we really going to debate what Exclusive means? SMH

    And it was exclusive to Kickstarter while that campaign was running. 

    As mentioned, there have been timed exclusives in the past and when that time is done they become widely available. 

    Similarly, there are "exclusives" which then become available in some other flavor due to demand, like "Exclusive Golden Belt Ironman!!" and everyone else gets "Silver Belt Ironman!!". Similarly here, as I mentioned previously, they could say, "Summer Exclusive 1,000,000,000 year subscription!!!" and then they wouldn't be trumping that whole "Kickstarter Exclusive" terminology, but I'm assuming they just figured that people were mostly going to be fine with it, before they heard the word police coming. 

    Honestly, I find it hilarious in this case because there was so much stress put on how the referral program was MLM, which it LITERALLY was not. Yet people wanted to draw that line and make that connection any obscure way they could. HOWEVER!!! Now that the LITERAL definition actually suits their agenda, they're more than happy to be stalwart in sticking to what the dictionary says. It's actually pretty funny. 
    [Deleted User]

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • WellspringWellspring Member EpicPosts: 1,464
    Nanfoodle said:
    Iselin said:
    Yet another over-promise, under-deliver KS campaign.  
    None of them deliver until they deliver.

    You guys do know you're talking about a game that may or may not be launched in 2022... right?
    I know that.  You know that. But why then does the Summer Sale" still show a delivery date of December 2018?

    Again, Say what you mean and do what you say.
    Delivery date has been covered many times, thats for the start of Alpha and Beta not game launch. Little reading explains that.
    So help me with my reading.   The $25 package has no Alpha or Beta associated with it.  It's ETA is Dec 18.  Why?
    That's the package I ended up going with.  Can't wait to play with everyone come December 2018!!
    Slapshot1188
    --------------------------------------------
  • VrikaVrika Member LegendaryPosts: 7,882
    Nanfoodle said:
    Nanfoodle said:
    Iselin said:
    Yet another over-promise, under-deliver KS campaign.  
    None of them deliver until they deliver.

    You guys do know you're talking about a game that may or may not be launched in 2022... right?
    I know that.  You know that. But why then does the Summer Sale" still show a delivery date of December 2018?

    Again, Say what you mean and do what you say.
    Delivery date has been covered many times, thats for the start of Alpha and Beta not game launch. Little reading explains that.
    So help me with my reading.   The $25 package has no Alpha or Beta associated with it.  It's ETA is Dec 18.  Why?
    FAQ right off the KS page....

    Kickstarter Alphas is currently scheduled to launch in 2018, with Betas following after that. Note, this schedule is subject to change based on development milestones.

    That does not conflict with their ETA to deliver full game in 2018. It means they plan launch their KS Alphas, Betas, and later full game all within 2018.

    It's very unlikely they'll be able to actually hold that schedule, but until we're informed of a delay or a new schedule officially their schedule.
     
  • AnirethAnireth Member UncommonPosts: 940
    I think there is nothing wrong per se with offering a way to pledge without Kickstarter despite having a Kickstarter, given that the issue of credit card vs. PayPal is indeed a huge one. Having both gives the company more money, and allows for more people to get some nice rewards and such.

    But: You don't offer exclusive rewards again like that. If you want to do that, don't call them "Kickstarter" exclusive, but something different, and make it immediately clear that you consider Kickstarter and what follows as equivalent/one thing in terms of rewards. And do that while the Kickstarter is still running, or better, before it started.
    Slapshot1188

    I'll wait to the day's end when the moon is high
    And then I'll rise with the tide with a lust for life, I'll
    Amass an army, and we'll harness a horde
    And then we'll limp across the land until we stand at the shore

  • VrikaVrika Member LegendaryPosts: 7,882
    edited June 2017
    I don't honestly understand why people are making such a huge deal out of this:

    Did KS backers believe they would prevent people from subscribing and accessing the game at some point? It was stupid of them to say that lifetime subscription is Kickstarter exclusive, but of course their plan was to give everyone who wants to stay subscribed the opportunity to do so for the whole life of the game.

    Whether others get their subscription through monthly subs, lifetime subs, or some other package doesn't matter everyone was going to get it anyway.
     
  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    Ponzini said:
    Distopia said:
    When you lay with the devil, you get burned. In this case the devil being business.....

    In the pursuit of money and success people are nothing but a stepping stone. People need to come to grips with that. Exclusives are rarely truly exclusive, in the entertainment industry especially. How do you think people who spend hundreds on convention exclusives (including price of entry/hotel stays etc..) feel when they see it on Thinkgeek for pennies to the dollar of what they paid? 

    The only decision you can trust these folks to make is the one that leads to more funds, that's the bottom line. 
    Man you guys are so dramatic. This was an extension of the kickstarter for 1 month for people who couldn't take part in the regular kickstarter campaign. How shit would it be to not include the same rewards everyone else got? Not everything has to be a scandal, my dudes. 
    Who said anything about a scandal, I'm just saying in business decisions are made based on getting funding, not making people feel special.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 16,947
    Nanfoodle said:
    Nanfoodle said:
    Iselin said:
    Yet another over-promise, under-deliver KS campaign.  
    None of them deliver until they deliver.

    You guys do know you're talking about a game that may or may not be launched in 2022... right?
    I know that.  You know that. But why then does the Summer Sale" still show a delivery date of December 2018?

    Again, Say what you mean and do what you say.
    Delivery date has been covered many times, thats for the start of Alpha and Beta not game launch. Little reading explains that.
    So help me with my reading.   The $25 package has no Alpha or Beta associated with it.  It's ETA is Dec 18.  Why?
    FAQ right off the KS page....

    Kickstarter Alphas is currently scheduled to launch in 2018, with Betas following after that. Note, this schedule is subject to change based on development milestones.
    ____________________________________________________________________________

    Keep stirring the pot, you only getting poop all over yourself. 

    EDIT: Also you are not new to MMOs, everyone knows projected dates are always placeholders and subject to change depending on RL happening at every turn. 

    Please answer the question I posed and not a made up one. The package contains no Alpha or Beta.  Just the launch game.  Why does it say Dec 18?

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    Please answer the question I posed and not a made up one. The package contains no Alpha or Beta.  Just the launch game.  Why does it say Dec 18?
                                               Does it really matter when they say:

    "Kickstarter Alphas is currently scheduled to launch in 2018, with Betas following after that. Note, this schedule is subject to change based on development milestones." ?
    [Deleted User]

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    Distopia said:
    Ponzini said:
    Distopia said:
    When you lay with the devil, you get burned. In this case the devil being business.....

    In the pursuit of money and success people are nothing but a stepping stone. People need to come to grips with that. Exclusives are rarely truly exclusive, in the entertainment industry especially. How do you think people who spend hundreds on convention exclusives (including price of entry/hotel stays etc..) feel when they see it on Thinkgeek for pennies to the dollar of what they paid? 

    The only decision you can trust these folks to make is the one that leads to more funds, that's the bottom line. 
    Man you guys are so dramatic. This was an extension of the kickstarter for 1 month for people who couldn't take part in the regular kickstarter campaign. How shit would it be to not include the same rewards everyone else got? Not everything has to be a scandal, my dudes. 
    Who said anything about a scandal, I'm just saying in business decisions are made based on getting funding, not making people feel special.

    What's funny is that they did decide to change up the name of other exclusives, like the Royal Garb became the Majesty Garb, lol. I've got my popcorn ready to see what the actual difference is between the two, lmao. 
    [Deleted User]Distopia

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    Torval said:
    CrazKanuk said:
    Distopia said:
    Ponzini said:
    Distopia said:
    When you lay with the devil, you get burned. In this case the devil being business.....

    In the pursuit of money and success people are nothing but a stepping stone. People need to come to grips with that. Exclusives are rarely truly exclusive, in the entertainment industry especially. How do you think people who spend hundreds on convention exclusives (including price of entry/hotel stays etc..) feel when they see it on Thinkgeek for pennies to the dollar of what they paid? 

    The only decision you can trust these folks to make is the one that leads to more funds, that's the bottom line. 
    Man you guys are so dramatic. This was an extension of the kickstarter for 1 month for people who couldn't take part in the regular kickstarter campaign. How shit would it be to not include the same rewards everyone else got? Not everything has to be a scandal, my dudes. 
    Who said anything about a scandal, I'm just saying in business decisions are made based on getting funding, not making people feel special.

    What's funny is that they did decide to change up the name of other exclusives, like the Royal Garb became the Majesty Garb, lol. I've got my popcorn ready to see what the actual difference is between the two, lmao. 

    And the original will be unique, but not how some people imagined unique to mean and the status they fantasize it will convey. You should take stock out in Orville Redenbacher. :lol: The angst will be epic.
    What really gets me in all of this, why would anyone want lifetime subs to be exclusive to just the earliest of adopters? To hell with some exclusive badge or position, I'd want more folks who might still be around as time goes on more so than anything else....
    [Deleted User]CrazKanukMaurgrim

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • JacobinJacobin Member RarePosts: 1,009
    Steven made his own bed. Any form of additional fundraising will be met with massive backlash due to his shady actions. Nobody should trust anything with a price tag attached to it to be what is actually described.

    This is a guy who will tell you anything to get your money.
    Nanfoodle
  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    edited June 2017
    Jacobin said:
    <insert and name of any salesperson in history> made his own bed. Any form of additional fundraising will be met with massive backlash due to his shady actions. Nobody should trust anything with a price tag attached to it to be what is actually described.

    This is a guy who will tell you anything to get your money.

    fixed it. 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

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