Crowfall's $7,000 Castle

MightyUnclean · June 2017

Look under Guild Strongholds. The most expensive one is an Imperial Castle for $7,000. That's some SotA-level shit. And if I'm not mistaken, it's not just cosmetic. Sorry, since the forum update, pressing enter does not advance me to the next line. https://crowfall.com/en/store/#store-item-detail-popup

MightyUnclean · June 2017

Imperial Palace, that is.

kitarad · June 2017

It depends on whether you can earn a fortress of similar fortification in game. If the appearance is the only difference then it would be cosmetic.

https://www.reddit.com/r/crowfall/comments/672hpf/guild_strongholds/

I believe it is answered there.

MightyUnclean · June 2017

kitarad said:

It depends on whether you can earn a fortress of similar fortification in game. if the appearance is the only difference then it would be cosmetic.

Even if you can earn it, are you familiar with the term "pay to win?" If paying cash gives you an instant, functional item that someone else can earn by investing time, that fits the definition. IDK, maybe I'm wrong and someone who knows more about Crowfall can chime in saying that this item doesn't give you a real-world advantage for cash.

MightyUnclean · June 2017

Nyctelios said:

Deep thoughts with Nyctelios...

OhhPaigey · June 2017

I hate to be that person, but anybody who buys that junk is off their rocker.

I don't care how many 0's are in your bank account.

Tiller · June 2017

OhhPaigey said:

I hate to be that person, but anybody who buys that junk is off their rocker.

I don't care how many 0's are in your bank account.

Well, for some that's a night out in Vegas and drinks with friends, so I guess if they get a digitally tangible item then so be it. Not where I would put my money, but to each his own I guess.

MightyUnclean · June 2017

Tiller said:

OhhPaigey said:

I hate to be that person, but anybody who buys that junk is off their rocker.

I don't care how many 0's are in your bank account.

Well, for some that's a night out in Vegas and drinks with friends, so I guess if they get a digitally tangible item then so be it. Not where I would put my money, but to each his own I guess.

If it were purely cosmetic, I'd agree. However, this appears to give players the ability to buy an instant, significant PvP advantage over other players who can't afford it. Without getting into a huge debate about the spirit of fair competition, this appears to be markedly pay to win. Again, maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think so, after reading the item description.

Denambren · June 2017

In a game with player-built villages, towns, cities and castle empires, you can either start the game with an empty world, or with some players who already have starting villages, cities, castles, buildings, etc. If you go with the empty world, it doesn't take very long for the world to get populated with all the villages, cities, castles etc. For a game with limited funding that relies on pledges, I don't find anything wrong with big donations allowing players to be the first of the people to settle in the game world and flesh out the "political" landscape. Just think of these players as the original nobility with a family lineage that traces back to the earliest history of the game. The players' pledges helped create the game world, so it makes sense to me that they should have a historical place in it. It also means that all players (even ones with the lowest pledge value, like myself) have new places to live in and interact with. If you don't like the lord of a castle, then that's great. The place has personality instead of if the castle was just an NPC hub.

MightyUnclean · June 2017

Denambren said:

In a game with player-built villages, towns, cities and castle empires, you can either start the game with an empty world, or with some players who already have starting villages, cities, castles, buildings, etc. If you go with the empty world, it doesn't take very long for the world to get populated with all the villages, cities, castles etc. For a game with limited funding that relies on pledges, I don't find anything wrong with big donations allowing players to be the first of the people to settle in the game world and flesh out the "political" landscape. Just think of these players as the original nobility with a family lineage that traces back to the earliest history of the game. The players' pledges helped create the game world, so it makes sense to me that they should have a historical place in it. It also means that all players (even ones with the lowest pledge value, like myself) have new places to live in and interact with. If you don't like the lord of a castle, then that's great. The place has personality instead of if the castle was just an NPC hub.

Well, that's one way of looking at it. Another way is that it gives whales a huge starting advantage over the average player who can't afford to spend that kind of money. Am I right that these cash shop buildings give an instant PvP advantage to the purchaser? Is there any indication of how much player time and effort it would take to earn something like an Imperial Palace in-game? That's important, too. If it's a week, maybe no big deal. If it's a year, big deal. That's assuming that comparable structures can even me earned through in-game activities. Is that known yet?

Pemmin · June 2017

MightyUnclean said:

Tiller said:

OhhPaigey said:

I hate to be that person, but anybody who buys that junk is off their rocker.

I don't care how many 0's are in your bank account.

Well, for some that's a night out in Vegas and drinks with friends, so I guess if they get a digitally tangible item then so be it. Not where I would put my money, but to each his own I guess.

If it were purely cosmetic, I'd agree. However, this appears to give players the ability to buy an instant, significant PvP advantage over other players who can't afford it. Without getting into a huge debate about the spirit of fair competition, this appears to be markedly pay to win. Again, maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think so, after reading the item description.

its suppose (not actually in game yet) to be only used in the eternal kingdoms which is essentially a player-esq housing hub worlds and according to the developers not part of the campaigns. so it shouldn't effect pvp mechanics at all.

if you into the whole cosmetically looking super wealthy in game avatar thing then yeah maybe from that point of view it could be p2w since your skipping the effort to gather resouces and building it.

doesn't bother me much since im relatively spartan with my characters in any game and it wont be effecting pvp.

MightyUnclean · June 2017

Pemmin said:

MightyUnclean said:

Tiller said:

OhhPaigey said:

I hate to be that person, but anybody who buys that junk is off their rocker.

I don't care how many 0's are in your bank account.

Well, for some that's a night out in Vegas and drinks with friends, so I guess if they get a digitally tangible item then so be it. Not where I would put my money, but to each his own I guess.

If it were purely cosmetic, I'd agree. However, this appears to give players the ability to buy an instant, significant PvP advantage over other players who can't afford it. Without getting into a huge debate about the spirit of fair competition, this appears to be markedly pay to win. Again, maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think so, after reading the item description.

its suppose (not actually in game yet) to be only used in the eternal kingdoms which is essentially a player-esq housing hub worlds and according to the developers not part of the campaigns. so it shouldn't effect pvp mechanics at all.

if you into the whole cosmetically looking super wealthy in game avatar thing then yeah maybe from that point of view it could be p2w since your skipping the effort to gather resouces and building it.

doesn't bother me much since im relatively spartan with my characters in any game and it wont be effecting pvp.

OK, that's what I was hoping to hear! If it doesn't affect PvP, then I see it has harmless. Insane, but harmless.

cheyane · June 2017

Instead of rushing here like 'chicken little' to start a topic you could have done a few searches and found the answer easily.

acidblood · June 2017

MightyUnclean said:

kitarad said:

It depends on whether you can earn a fortress of similar fortification in game. if the appearance is the only difference then it would be cosmetic.

Even if you can earn it, are you familiar with the term "pay to win?" If paying cash gives you an instant, functional item that someone else can earn by investing time, that fits the definition. IDK, maybe I'm wrong and someone who knows more about Crowfall can chime in saying that this item doesn't give you a real-world advantage for cash.

Not sure about "Pay 2 Win", but it is defintiely "Pay for Advantage", which to me is almost as bad.

* I define "Pay 2 Win" as being able to buy non-cosmetic items that cannot be (reasonably) obtained in game.
* I define "Pay for Advantage" as being able to buy anything not 100% cosmetic, even if it can be obtained in game.

MightyUnclean · June 2017

cheyane said:

Instead of rushing here like 'chicken little' to start a topic you could have done a few searches and found the answer easily.

Or I could come here, to a forum where we DISCUSS GAMES, to post the info and openly state in my first post that I may be misinformed and ask any who are more knowledgeable about Crowfall to set me straight.

MightyUnclean · June 2017

I read this description and it sounded like PvP fortifications to me. I gave full disclosure in the post that I may be incorrect, and asked for correction if I was wrong.

The IMPERIAL PALACE is the ultimate display of majesty and power. Towers stand like silent guardians above your thriving capital city, safely nestled in the heart of this heavily fortified ravine!

This is a stronghold BUNDLE! It includes a Province land parcel (Chasm, rank 3), a CASTLE, CITADEL and PALACE THRONEROOM and a defensive structures PACK (stone walls and towers) to design and build your own Imperial Palace!

F2Plague · June 2017

Pay to win or not it is still ridiculous. 10 years ago if someone put a 7000$ dollar castle in a cash shop people would have thought it was insane. Amazing how fast greed can change a genre.

MightyUnclean · June 2017

F2Plague said:

Pay to win or not it is still ridiculous. 10 years ago if someone put a 7000$ dollar castle in a cash shop people would have thought it was insane. Amazing how fast greed can change a genre.

I agree, it's absolutely absurd by my standards. But then, there are some truly rich people out there for whom this is a drop in the bucket. If it's purely cosmetic, and has no effect on the gameplay mechanics of others (someone being emotionally hurt that they can't have as pretty a house not counting in my estimation), then I don't see it hurting the game. That was my major concern.

Nanfoodle · June 2017

Denambren said:

In a game with player-built villages, towns, cities and castle empires, you can either start the game with an empty world, or with some players who already have starting villages, cities, castles, buildings, etc. If you go with the empty world, it doesn't take very long for the world to get populated with all the villages, cities, castles etc. For a game with limited funding that relies on pledges, I don't find anything wrong with big donations allowing players to be the first of the people to settle in the game world and flesh out the "political" landscape. Just think of these players as the original nobility with a family lineage that traces back to the earliest history of the game. The players' pledges helped create the game world, so it makes sense to me that they should have a historical place in it. It also means that all players (even ones with the lowest pledge value, like myself) have new places to live in and interact with. If you don't like the lord of a castle, then that's great. The place has personality instead of if the castle was just an NPC hub.

I dont think you are getting it. If its a skin for something you have to earn in game, no problem. If its not a skin, then its pay to win no matter how you spin it. Own it. If a pay to win game is ok by you again no problem for you. Shading it so pay to win is ok is not cool. This is something gamers need to know before they jump in. If its a pay to win castle Im happy I did not back this.

Nanfoodle · June 2017

F2Plague said:

Pay to win or not it is still ridiculous. 10 years ago if someone put a 7000$ dollar castle in a cash shop people would have thought it was insane. Amazing how fast greed can change a genre.

I dont care if people back something, heck Im backing Pantheon and Ashes. The values the dev team hold is what in question here not how much you can spend on things you love. Judge me for buying 750 mill bottle of rum for $120? Of corse not. Shame needs to be pointed at the company for going for the gutter if this is not just a skin.

Renoaku · June 2017

Pay 2 Advance faster if everyone can get it.

Nanfoodle · June 2017

Renoaku said:

Pay 2 Advance faster if everyone can get it.

Nope that would mean game time to earn the reward at a faster rate. This looks like RL cash for in game goods. I hope thats not the case. Looking forward to hearing the skinny on this.

Azaron_Nightblade · June 2017

I'm not sure if it gives any actual in game advantage, but it's like a super expensive collector's edition, that only a handful can afford. And that handful will have a unique building no one else can ever hope to get. All because they opened their wallets wide.

Or at least that's my understanding with this thing. Now watch future, non-Kickstarter MMOs adopt the same shady practice.

genaknosc · June 2017

*THESE CAN NOT BE USED IN CAMPAIGN WORLDS*
- ie. the real game.

These cash shop items can only be used in the Eternal Kingdoms which are effectively instanced housing.

genaknosc · June 2017

Why is there even a whole page of people discussing P2W here when nobody involved in the debate even knows anything about Crowfall EK's. lol, people complaining about shit they don't even understand