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Tired of silent guilds/ abandoned guilds.
TENTING
Member UncommonPosts: 262
I have been very happy playing WoW. Or if we have to get precise, I have enjoyed it greatly all the way from the beginning and up to and including MoP. Never complained about the game, did not go on the fence to defend it either though, when others complained about it before WoD. I was just content and went on my merry way doing everything the game had to offer.
It has been a struggle though from the get go, which I did not mind a whole lot the first 10 years. When servers died out, I just switched servers. When guilds died out, I just switched guilds. If a guild did not match my interests in the game, I engaged in guild politics now and then to encourage change, which though later I stopped doing, cause, well, maybe Im not good at it, maybe I said the wrong things, maybe I tried too hard, maybe I shouldnt have tried. All in all I have probably done all the mistakes I could fit in into 10 years of many different guilds that, along with changing members and a changing game, just overall changed over time.
I have been officer, I have been GM, I have been worldranked raider, semi hardcore raider, casual, social, horde, ally, twink, pvp'er, pve'er, you name it, I seem to have tried it all. PvP server, PvE server, RP server, list goes on.
Anyway to sum up the above, I have been very happy and have managed my struggles along the way by taking on the challenges along the way with dedication and great interest in most if not all areas of the game.
So what is on my mind?
Well in the past 5-6 years it has been increasingly difficult to actually find a guild that not only engage in the game, but also have members who have interest in being social.
I have managed to find these guilds, but the last time was in MoP and once WoD hit, that was the end of an otherwise exellent active and chatty guild. The social gameplay got lost and so people left. Nothing dramatic, no guild collaps of any kind, people just phased out gradually.
In the past 3 or so years I have joined many social guilds on various characters and tend to get on good standing with people in all these guilds, with some exceptions of course, or so I am sure anyway.
What happens though is that these guilds do a nice initial rush of invites over a period of time, where officers and GMs are eager to either rebuild or reorganize their guilds and then it phase out.
I dont blame the guilds management, cause people very much join and leave often, so its almost a fulltime job to keep a new flow of members incoming.
However what has started to drain me are the guild with members on, who refuse to interact with other people. I dont mind this in general, I mean there can easily enough be made room for people of the silent kind or people too shy to type or afraid of making spelling errors in "public" that they mind their own with their friends in whispers.
But when did it start to become the norm? Are we all supposed to be silent now?
I mean Im well aware Im not perfect, I have a ton of flaws or at least characteristics that some people will easily consider flaws, but just as I do not carry any grudges at people who strikes me as wildly different to myself, I too expect, or in some degree expect people to not be overly emotionally involved in my personality traits.
So what is with the silence?
It is not only guilds, its in raids, bgs and dungeons also.
WoW in particular is trying to promote a social aspect in WoW, adding more and more social features, but they are not working really, apart from making the game function in terms of getting groups together, who just never speaks.
So what is the deal here?
I have reached a point where WoW has so little to offer in terms of interesting gameplay. It still has everything it always had, it is just a bit on repeat now, which makes it a little less interesting.
So I turn to the socials to "keep" me ingame. But friends have left WoW, they always did over time during the time I have played. People come and go and often come back, though the last 4-5 years majority seems to just have sticked with the "gone".
Guilds turns empty and now its not just during downtimes or summertimes or easter or Christmas or "name what ever reason" in WoW we have for many years made up any and all excuse to explain a sudden drop in players. Still it seems it is turning permanently Summer and Christmas in WoW these days, outside raidhours anyway.
But Im actually not sure it is the game that is the reason that people have gone utter quiet in many areas of the game.
So what is up?
Epidemic of shyness or what?
It has been a struggle though from the get go, which I did not mind a whole lot the first 10 years. When servers died out, I just switched servers. When guilds died out, I just switched guilds. If a guild did not match my interests in the game, I engaged in guild politics now and then to encourage change, which though later I stopped doing, cause, well, maybe Im not good at it, maybe I said the wrong things, maybe I tried too hard, maybe I shouldnt have tried. All in all I have probably done all the mistakes I could fit in into 10 years of many different guilds that, along with changing members and a changing game, just overall changed over time.
I have been officer, I have been GM, I have been worldranked raider, semi hardcore raider, casual, social, horde, ally, twink, pvp'er, pve'er, you name it, I seem to have tried it all. PvP server, PvE server, RP server, list goes on.
Anyway to sum up the above, I have been very happy and have managed my struggles along the way by taking on the challenges along the way with dedication and great interest in most if not all areas of the game.
So what is on my mind?
Well in the past 5-6 years it has been increasingly difficult to actually find a guild that not only engage in the game, but also have members who have interest in being social.
I have managed to find these guilds, but the last time was in MoP and once WoD hit, that was the end of an otherwise exellent active and chatty guild. The social gameplay got lost and so people left. Nothing dramatic, no guild collaps of any kind, people just phased out gradually.
In the past 3 or so years I have joined many social guilds on various characters and tend to get on good standing with people in all these guilds, with some exceptions of course, or so I am sure anyway.
What happens though is that these guilds do a nice initial rush of invites over a period of time, where officers and GMs are eager to either rebuild or reorganize their guilds and then it phase out.
I dont blame the guilds management, cause people very much join and leave often, so its almost a fulltime job to keep a new flow of members incoming.
However what has started to drain me are the guild with members on, who refuse to interact with other people. I dont mind this in general, I mean there can easily enough be made room for people of the silent kind or people too shy to type or afraid of making spelling errors in "public" that they mind their own with their friends in whispers.
But when did it start to become the norm? Are we all supposed to be silent now?
I mean Im well aware Im not perfect, I have a ton of flaws or at least characteristics that some people will easily consider flaws, but just as I do not carry any grudges at people who strikes me as wildly different to myself, I too expect, or in some degree expect people to not be overly emotionally involved in my personality traits.
So what is with the silence?
It is not only guilds, its in raids, bgs and dungeons also.
WoW in particular is trying to promote a social aspect in WoW, adding more and more social features, but they are not working really, apart from making the game function in terms of getting groups together, who just never speaks.
So what is the deal here?
I have reached a point where WoW has so little to offer in terms of interesting gameplay. It still has everything it always had, it is just a bit on repeat now, which makes it a little less interesting.
So I turn to the socials to "keep" me ingame. But friends have left WoW, they always did over time during the time I have played. People come and go and often come back, though the last 4-5 years majority seems to just have sticked with the "gone".
Guilds turns empty and now its not just during downtimes or summertimes or easter or Christmas or "name what ever reason" in WoW we have for many years made up any and all excuse to explain a sudden drop in players. Still it seems it is turning permanently Summer and Christmas in WoW these days, outside raidhours anyway.
But Im actually not sure it is the game that is the reason that people have gone utter quiet in many areas of the game.
So what is up?
Epidemic of shyness or what?
Comments
Current Wow is a silent movie filled with players leveling to cap with zero reason to even group together. Once they hit cap they can use dungeon and raid finders without any need for a guild. Players can sit within their privately phased areas and play their mini-games without the worry of feeling like they are in a game with other players.
You can't find an active guild because you no longer play a game that can be called a mmorpg as was defined when created.
You stay sassy!
Before LFR and LFG the same issues existed with grouping and soloing. Nothing has changed of those behaviors (other than it's more apparent).
When players finally understand that WoW can be played not being on that gear roller coaster, a lot of the stress and sheer ugliness of grouping vanishes, and now the quirks are design related and of the anti-socials who trolls even quest/instance zones.
OP: social guilds are social. They aren't designed for hardcore raiding if raiding is even done. They're essentially warehouse guilds to park alts. If you want to tackle current raids and achieves, you'll have to either do it in the pre-groups finder; or cross your fingers that a semi-hardcore guild lasts longer than 6 months, so you can raid and complete achieves together.
There's simply not enough players willing to do the content consistently, even with custom groups (the game is full of multi-boxers and multi-boxer guilds [who in turn also want to carry their alts in raids too]).
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
Voice chat is a no go for many who dislike random chatter especially about non game related subjects. Also in my case my wife is normally watching TV in the same room and frowns on me having voice conversations.
I tend to chat in both mediums when necessary (PVP, raiding) and stay silent otherwise unless a subject of interest catches my eye.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Some of you will argue MMO's have always had a soloing community. But it wasn't nearly all encompassing as it's now. MMO's are designed around it these days, specifically, up approximately until cap. Being so easy to shut out the other players means unless you particularly like to chat, there's little reason.
I think even group activities in MMO's are designed to be convenient so minimal communication is necessary. This adds to the emptiness. End result is only the most desperate players will be saying anything.
This is one reason voice chat is now so popular. It's easy. Don't even need to click anything. When games are faster paced, there's less desire to type. So even when players do say something, it's not in text chat anymore. This wasn't the case in a MMO like Everquest, where lots of downtime meant you were sitting down for a couple minutes with nothing to do except chat or play Gems. It also gave you incentive to afk temporarily or to rethink your strategy--both important. It wasn't just that either. The whole MMO was designed for it. The autoattack, for example, meant you could type messages and attack seamlessly. In modern action MMO's where you're dodging and slashing and parrying continuously, only voice chat works seamlessly.
I agree with the chatter. We are in a raid, we are here to get business done. I don't want to her about your boyfriend cheating on you, your divorce or your family issues. Also, guild drama issues.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Uh! And some people just talk for the sake of talking. You find this in general chat as well. They just say things for the sake of saying things.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
A game must be built from the ground up in order to facilitate a cooperative guild structure. Even Wow at release moved the bar toward a more casual experience that some mmorpgs previous to it. Current Wow stripped the game of any reason for maintaining a guild structure that forces players to act civil. Civility exists only when the barriers to maintain it are outweighed by rewards for acting civil. Wow now provides nearly zero reward for acting civil within a social structure.
Games out there still exist where cooperative game play is demanded from the players. They are now defined as "niche" and not merely because of the smaller audience they draw ... but because the mass market player cannot admit to themselves that they are not able to play under the restraints of civility anymore. Some have never learned how to begin with.
You stay sassy!
I hate that break the silence chitchat. Silences aren't uncomfortable to me.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
MMORPG's have been terrible cash grabs,they really have been nothing more than single player games we would pay one fee to own but have created login screens to find ways to get a lot more money from us.
A guild is nothing more than a place to ask others to help get what YOU want.Yes many do make some friends,but you don't need a guild title to make friends in games.
So the underlying problem is the lack of rpg and lack of MMO content in these mmorpg's,to me most are FAKE mmo's,a login screen means nothing and if your content is mostly end game and instances,you have completely missed the boat on mmorpg game design.
Point being we have a LOT more to fix and add to mmorpg's,it is not just a guild problem.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Actually, it existed even before WoW existed.
I've been playing video games since 1975, and started playing MuDs before MMOs, and the toxicity was always there in online games.
The toxicity is largely that people of all walks of life are forced together to play, it's really uncomfortable. If you're a Christian having to listen to a raider insult God; to some of these weird political junk rhetoric going on in gaming now pitting women and men against each other; to class hatred; and people wanting a MMORPG to be anything BUT a MMORPG (like griping about player housing or appearance armors), it's not going to be a fun experience.
The sheer level of nastiness now due to the political landscape in the past year, I only do group content when absolutely necessary. I don't want to hear it in group content, nor play with people with very negative and ugly views about people. Bad enough Furor and company hated Paladins, I simply not going to tolerate people being racists; sexists and into the worst behaviors "just because".
It's not 1998 anymore. The kids now are wild and believe "alternative realities". They'll argue that the sky is red just in spite (then try to ban you too).
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
If MMORPGs are truly cooperative games why is the competition in itself on things like loot? The discrimination of class and abilities if the games are suppose to be for many people playing together ... not just FoTM builds?
MMORPGs are role-playing games. Some will RP a fighter and all, but there's too much emphasis on antisocial behaviors, too the point cooperation is rare now.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
Now we just use people to get what we want. If we think the grass is greener somewhere else, we jump ship. Think about "company loyalty" and all that stuff that has gone the way of the dinosaur. Companies are not loyal to employees and vice versa.
Isn't it a reflection of society in general? How could we expect our online games to be different?
These days you are thrown in with a new person every queue, and you get to watch Twitch or Netflix in between. There's no motivation to make friends because you don't need them to accomplish your goal, you only need people in the queue.
Players wanted convenience, which detracts from the journey or the road in many cases.
People will always "game" the system, and in turn even custom groups, become even a cesspool of epeens and worse.
Ever since Discord and Facebook groups came in the game, those so called manual groups/raids, have turned out to be but LFR -- and this time in ilvl 900 gear (and only 23 APs). They buy their titles and get heroic/mythic gear now, and don't have anything to show for it. Don't know the mechanics; and couldn't fight the bosses anyway (they wouldn't break 400k DPS with 23 AP).
Add insult to injury, Blizzard redid the Armory and won't let raid leaders know what role got A/B/C achieve and if they did anything to get it (as those who buy achieves are told to just die to not get in the way).
MMOs have a lot of problems in their designs, and LFG/LFR isn't the root problem. It's the people and the crazy push of too many now of selling runs, which causes people who normally raid in public groups can't ... as all the gold sellers are selling runs, instead. That is pretty bad in the games now. I hosted a couple Heroic Nighthold runs, and it's a zoo in raids now (people trying to dual box with alts even).
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
Sorry but I'd say my point still stands, because if you're saying people "gaming systems" is the problem I'd say that used to be fun and encourage friendships also. It depends on the system that's being used. In the old MMOs people would form power level groups, or farm groups. Those systems even while being "exploited" still had a degree of social aspect and comradery.
I'm not sure what games you base your experience on, but I've played almost 100 different MMOs from the random niche 50 player game, to WoW, and DAoC. Instant queues and themepark quests, create hub games with no true sense of world.
If you want a recent example. I had much more social interaction by inviting solo people while in random grind spots in Uthgard DAoC classic freeshard, than any other MMO that I've played in the last 8 years at least.
The reasons are simple and veteran MMORPG players have been pointing out today MMORPG flaws for years, though the industry seems not to understand what an MMORPG actually is.
Global AH, instant travel, Group Finder, Fast paced Combat, Fast Leveling are all convenient features that makes the game more accessible and less time consuming but at the same time it promotes players laziness and anti-social behavior.
The MMORPGs are so accessible and easy today that people don't need to interact or communicate with each other, the games does everything for them.
After playing MMORPGs for 17 years I've come to the conclusion that the reason why I play MMORPGs is because of the Social aspect of the genre which makes it more than just a game.
Unfortunately the Social aspect of MMORPGs died out during the years to the point that today is almost non existent.
When I try new games I now reached the point where if I don't see an healthy General Chat activity I quit the MMORPG without even giving it a fair try.
There are much better Single Players RPGs out there, I don't see the point of playing an inferior product like an MMORPGs if their only distinctive feature is not there anymore.
Skyrim vs ESO?
As much as I love ESO, there is no competition, Skyrim hands down.
Let's be honest, if Skyrim were updated as frequently as ESO does, people would still play Skyrim in their millions today instead of playing ESO.
A lot of people blame LFG and LFR, but let's be serious, who would truly play vanilla WoW now?
Those who are playing on the private servers do so because it's free (who will argue about a free pirated game, instead of paying?), and because the mechanics of WoW then was much easier to play.
Blizzard since Cata turned WoW into an arena style game (because it wanted at that time to promote arena style play in WoW, to lure MOBA players from LoL).
But it messed up how people could even enjoy company together, as now every boss does AoE damage requiring jumping around like there were ants in their pant.
Prior to Cata people could stand in place to fire and melee could concentrate on the rotations. Now if you "tunnel" you can get 1 shotted by really cheap mechanics. Days and months of the cheapness ... I'm surprised Blizzard has 1,000,000 HUMANS playing the game at any time.
The problems we face is Blizzard changing the game FROM what players prefer to play (that encourage socialization in groups) to some agility match that it's even rage filling if someone mouth breathes in chat.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
Part of it tho is because a lot of games have become about your gear, your achievements, your personal progression, a lot of the earlier MMOs had personal progression, but the big goal wasnt individual but group, owning castles, or killing stuff, or being the strongest guild, now online games cater very much to individualism people want to kill the boss to get the achievement personally not because it will make the guild better etc...
Which is why I would really like smaller group content actually, I feel I can still have the social connectivity with my closest friends when I play MMOs and I dont really care much about the 20 odd other people that are just chasing their own achievements.
WotLK we had 24/7 25 man raids on the server. Now even with cross-realm if you don't host your own raid, and not over ilvl 900, be difficult to raid (and a lot of that is due to all the sold runs). Gold sellers went from selling gold, to selling raid runs now for 100,000g a pop.
Remember when 100g was a fortune?
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.