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Why video games are delayed so often [Kotaku Article]

BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 4,259
http://kotaku.com/why-video-games-are-delayed-so-often-1795473828

Since Star Citizen regularly gets attacked by the bitter armchair dev's thinking that estimates are promises and that delays are a signal of incompetency here's a little dose of reality check:

“We always like to have a plan,” said Wyatt Cheng, a veteran Blizzard designer who worked on Diablo III. “But we’re flexible on that plan if we have to be. So we have a target, and we try to hit our dates when we can, but we’re also willing to change in light of new evidence, or new discoveries.”

“The quality of the game should be dictating what you’re doing, not a date you agreed to 15 months before,” said Blizzard producer Rob Foote, who also worked on Diablo III.

“Things just always take longer than you think they’re going to,” said Sean Velasco, the director of Shovel Knight.


"With very few exceptions—namely, annualized series like Madden and Call of Duty—it’s hard to find a video game that hasn’t been delayed. Even games that appear to come out on time have usually seen at least one internal delay before their release dates were publicly announced."

I don't expect the haters to suddenly become enlightened about game dev and change their tone, they will keep hating no matter what because "reasons" but to the bystanders and casual checkers I hope this serves as an eye opener of some sort.

Have Phun!
ErillionGdemamiRamajamaRobsolf

Comments

  • WellspringWellspring Member EpicPosts: 1,464
    So if it is so common for games to be delayed, you'd think by now they'd be wise enough to take that into account when making KS promises. 
    FrodoFraginsBellomo
    --------------------------------------------
  • WalkinGlennWalkinGlenn Member RarePosts: 449
    edited May 2017
    They forgot to add the "perpetual carrot on a stick meant to dupe eager gamer out of their hard earned duckets" as one of the reasons.
    Bellomo
  • VrikaVrika Member LegendaryPosts: 7,882
    It's common for games to be delayed.

    It's not common for a studio to fail their plan to launch a game in 2014, 2015, 2016, and then stop even giving estimation which year they might release.

    People have to look at the big picture, the number and length of delays.
    Gdemamibartoni33
     
  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    Vrika said:
    It's common for games to be delayed.

    It's not common for a studio to fail their plan to launch a game in 2014, 2015, 2016, and then stop even giving estimation which year they might release.

    People have to look at the big picture, the number and length of delays.

    Whoa now! lets cut back on the crazy talk there. We can't have you questioning Chris Roberts, the supreme leader who is destined to save the space sim genre on PC, and undermining his authority.


    I want you to say 10 morrow tours and 1 10ftc and reflect on your heinous words!
    Ramajamaadamlotus75
  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Member EpicPosts: 5,898
    SC is far from typical - it's VERY atypical in terms of scope changes and delays.
    bartoni33
  • RamajamaRamajama Member UncommonPosts: 271
    If a project manager plans such a horrendously bad schedule as SC, it says something about his competence as a PM. Its a reason to fire the PM a hire a new one as soon as you find out he is crap. Reason is, that there is likelihood he is bad in other things not just planning. 
    Arglebargle
  • HeraseHerase Member RarePosts: 993
    Vrika said:
    It's common for games to be delayed.

    It's not common for a studio to fail their plan to launch a game in 2014, 2015, 2016, and then stop even giving estimation which year they might release.

    People have to look at the big picture, the number and length of delays.
    Oh I agree, but if that's the case, you also have to look at the cause, e.i the influx of money and change in direction, growth in company.
      
    If the community had said no when asked if the project should go on and the project goal weren't increased, i'm sure the game might have been out, but it was decided to change the direction and increase the project and for that to work they would have to increases their companies size.

    So they're having to make new plans for the influx of money, change in direction and building a new company in different regions all at the same time.

    Can they do no wrong? Fuck no and I doubt anyone thinks they're saints and can do what they want, think CR is an idiot and bit too ambitious for announcing those dates, but at the same time I think to ignore these points and act as if those delays were done for the sake of a delay or as a few think, to scam people, is slightly deluded. Imho they have legit reasons, not saying that makes everything perfect, it is a problem, but it's not as bad as some feel it is here.

    Remember that article that interviewed many devs to see what they do if they could that kind of money and drastic changes? Most said they would probably breakdown and couldn't cope. 

    Games have delays, but they all a have different reasons due to different circumstances and SC is no different, but It's up to you whether or not the reason given is acceptable. 
    Gdemamibartoni33Derpanged
  • sgelsgel Member EpicPosts: 2,197
    Let's not forget they keep on selling stuff in order to fund more delays.

    ..Cake..

  • Arkade99Arkade99 Member RarePosts: 538
    Yes, almost all games are delayed, but at some point the developers have to be held accountable. SC is beyond that point.
    bartoni33
  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    Xodic said:
    Funny story. So, recently an I-85 bridge in Georgia collapsed from a fire. If you live in Georgia you know they take roads very seriously. On any given stretch of interstate there's perpetual construction happening year around. Maybe they're Russian spies pretending to work on the roads, because nothing ever gets done.

    It was supposed to take several months to rebuild the bridge, so Georgia offered a three-million dollar incentive on top of the proposed contract to finish it by June. It reopened May 15th.

    I imagine games would release on time and under budget if they had an incentive to do so. Blizzard doesn't need to worry about any of those things, as they know their profits will be in the thousands of percent range. Kickstarters don't need to worry about it as much because they've already been paid by the majority of people known to be interested in the game.

    It's the same in Canada. Actually, if Georgia is anything like Ontario then it explains a lot. See, in Ontario, you apparently cannot have a contract revoked once work has stared, so work is started VERY quickly and then a single crew is rotated between any number of projects because it cannot be taken away. It's fucking stupid rules like this that make things slow. Japan is a different story. Shit gets done quickly!

    The biggest difference is in complexity. We're fairly certain we know how to repair roads, so the only real restriction is resources (people). With software, as the complexity increases, as the unknowns increase, as will the schedule and risk. Lest we forget that Star Citizen was touted as being impossible. Now what? It's inevitable, it's just a matter of when. Now we might be at the point of road workers, especially when I hear things like they're refactoring fog. Like, let's leave refactoring until afterwards, lol. Either way, it's not a bad analogy, but it doesn't solve the problem in situations where you're working with lots of unknowns. 
    Gdemami

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    Babuinix said:
    http://kotaku.com/why-video-games-are-delayed-so-often-1795473828

    Since Star Citizen regularly gets attacked by the bitter armchair dev's thinking that estimates are promises and that delays are a signal of incompetency here's a little dose of reality check:

    “We always like to have a plan,” said Wyatt Cheng, a veteran Blizzard designer who worked on Diablo III. “But we’re flexible on that plan if we have to be. So we have a target, and we try to hit our dates when we can, but we’re also willing to change in light of new evidence, or new discoveries.”

    “The quality of the game should be dictating what you’re doing, not a date you agreed to 15 months before,” said Blizzard producer Rob Foote, who also worked on Diablo III.

    “Things just always take longer than you think they’re going to,” said Sean Velasco, the director of Shovel Knight.


    "With very few exceptions—namely, annualized series like Madden and Call of Duty—it’s hard to find a video game that hasn’t been delayed. Even games that appear to come out on time have usually seen at least one internal delay before their release dates were publicly announced."

    I don't expect the haters to suddenly become enlightened about game dev and change their tone, they will keep hating no matter what because "reasons" but to the bystanders and casual checkers I hope this serves as an eye opener of some sort.

    Have Phun!
    Apples and oranges, man. 

    The key difference is that this is a kickstarted project. They asked for funding to complete a project within a specific time frame.

    The only reason they can get away with this sort of delays is that Kickstarter does not guarantee adequate level of legal protection to the donators.

    I am not a hater of this game. I actually hope they will achieve their vision.

    Not true at all!! Kickstarter doesn't make risks go away. It's why there is a whole section dedicated to risks. Delays still occur on every software project. Kickstarter simply emphasizes these delays because we have insight into the project at an early stage, it's not something that's announced at E3 which is a year out from being released.

    Another example would be NMS. It's quite obvious that they were pressured to release something instead of delaying again, considering that gameplay that was shown during interviews didn't make it into the "final" game. 

    The difference here is that something like SC is able to continue to monetize their game while they meet their vision for the final product. Had NMS been given carte blanche, you can be certain it probably wouldn't even be released today, but they weren't, they had obligations to a corporation. Granted, SC has obligations to backers, those backers seem more interested in them realizing their vision, what the backers were sold on, than pressuring them to release something. 


    Gdemami

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • VrikaVrika Member LegendaryPosts: 7,882
    Xodic said:

    I imagine games would release on time and under budget if they had an incentive to do so. 
    Game companies already want to make their games as cheap as possible. If they can get the same result somehow cheaper, it's that much more profit for their company. They don't need any further incentive than that.
     
  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    Xodic said:
    Vrika said:
    Xodic said:

    I imagine games would release on time and under budget if they had an incentive to do so. 
    Game companies already want to make their games as cheap as possible. If they can get the same result somehow cheaper, it's that much more profit for their company. They don't need any further incentive than that.


    Crowdfunding... well; why would they be in any rush?

    My point is that the incentives to do so is what makes deadlines and not all companies are equal in the burden of circled dates on a calendar.

    No, but many crowdfunded games see significantly more income through release than they earned in crowdfunding. Pillars of Eternity has sold nearly a million copies, Divinity has sold over a million, same goes for the Shadowrun games. I think that's a great inventive for crowdfunded games to release. When you're talking about 10x funding one released, that should be incentive enough. SC is anomalous, though, and make more in a month than most of these games made during their entire campaign. Furthermore, SC earns enough to sustain an office(s) of 300+ people so, yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if they're focused on doing the game they want it done. However, you'd be naive to believe that SC has peaked. There is PLENTY of monetization that can happen with that game at launch, so I'm sure they want it out. They just don't NEED to push it out. 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 4,259
    Besides the generalised ignorance about game development hurdles and it's overall vicissitudes there's also some confusion to what a Kickstarting campaign means for a video-game.

    Definition of kick–start

    1. transitive verb
    2. 1 :  to start (something, such as a motorcycle) by means of a kick-starter

    3. 2jump-start 2

    kick start

    noun

    I mean it's right there very explicit. A successful kickstart campaign doesn't guarantee the backers anything besides that the motorcycle as gotten the needed push to start moving. In no way's there's a guarantee that it will finish the race or even maintain the same course for that matter.

    Thanks to the ongoing CIG efforts and focus on delivering a groundbreaking experience it has already catered to a lot of patient and knowledgeable folks that keep supporting it's development.

    I guess there's a lot of gamers wanting something different than what the saturated market keeps pushing year after year and that are not afraid to back with their money to make the dream game come through.







    PS- ATV tonight! Frankfurt Office! Prepare your hypetrainnnnnn!


    Gdemami
  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    Babuinix said:
    Besides the generalised ignorance about game development hurdles and it's overall vicissitudes there's also some confusion to what a Kickstarting campaign means for a video-game.

    Definition of kick–start

    1. transitive verb
    2. 1 :  to start (something, such as a motorcycle) by means of a kick-starter

    3. 2jump-start 2

    kick start

    noun

    I mean it's right there very explicit. A successful kickstart campaign doesn't guarantee the backers anything besides that the motorcycle as gotten the needed push to start moving. In no way's there's a guarantee that it will finish the race or even maintain the same course for that matter.

    Thanks to the ongoing CIG efforts and focus on delivering a groundbreaking experience it has already catered to a lot of patient and knowledgeable folks that keep supporting it's development.

    I guess there's a lot of gamers wanting something different than what the saturated market keeps pushing year after year and that are not afraid to back with their money to make the dream game come through.







    PS- ATV tonight! Frankfurt Office! Prepare your hypetrainnnnnn!


    That's fine and dandy for the kickstarter but the moment they started taking pre orders on their website it wasn't a kickstarter anymore but became a pre order
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,765
    edited May 2017
    ofc companies like Blizzard and so forth are far more relaxed to delay their projects than Kickstarters would...

    Especially when they get to fund themselves, they don't ever need to publicly expose their estimates for delivery, so they only do it once they are comfortable to do so.

    So even if they go through as much or more delays than KS projects go through, you'll never get to hear it. The way KS expose delivery estimates is because the nature of crowdfunding, so all the fingers will be pointed at them instead.
    [Deleted User]
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 19,332
    What the heck does a target date got to do with anything?

    I have been saying since forever that i rather wait for a game to be good than see it rushed by fanbois.

    The problem with THIS particular game is the budget and it is WAY over budget.

    There is nothing "estimated" about Chris claiming he could have made the original game on around 6 million,so even if we doubled that to 12,does anyone here or anywhere think THAT originally pitched game would have been anything more than complete trash?
    I should also remind people that when Chris was scrutinized about WHERE the money was going,allegations of spent on his wife's endeavors,that Chris made the mistake of claiming he had his own money from past ventures.

    So IF he had his OWN money like he claims,why the hell did he scam gamer's for money to build this game?EASY answer,he saw everyone else doing it and figured "hey easy money,if some naive people want to give me free money,i'll gladly take it".


    BabuinixGdemami

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 19,332
    I should also make a point that  just because he has pulled off a scam by creating stretch goal after stretch goal,there is and has never been anything stopping him from releasing the originally pitched game and then adding in those stretch goals as they are finished.

    This is just MUCH easier for him to not release a game,it keeps more money rolling before the game gets heavily scrutinized for looking like an Indie game on a 150 million budget.A NON partnered/investor budget which equates more to 400+ million.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 4,259
    How is way over budget?

    - 5 Studios Across the World
    - 400+ Developers
    - Single-Player Campaign
    - MMORPG Universe
    - Highly detailed GFX and Assets

    So not only are people oblivion about game development they are oblivion about how much it costs to make a game of this scale....

    Hummm funny no wonder the pointless arguments go round and round.
    GdemamiKefo
  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    edited May 2017
    Babuinix said:
    How is way over budget?

    - 5 Studios Across the World
    - 400+ Developers
    - Single-Player Campaign
    - MMORPG Universe
    - Highly detailed GFX and Assets

    So not only are people oblivion about game development they are oblivion about how much it costs to make a game of this scale....

    Hummm funny no wonder the pointless arguments go round and round.
    When the CEO of the company says they are fully funded at 65 million and then at 140ish million whoops we only have enough to finish SQ42 and we hope the sales of that will be enough to let us finish the PU then that would be going over budget.

    Its not the people on the outside looking in that's oblivious, it's the people on the inside that have no clue what they are doing and that should scare you
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    Kefo said:
    Babuinix said:
    How is way over budget?

    - 5 Studios Across the World
    - 400+ Developers
    - Single-Player Campaign
    - MMORPG Universe
    - Highly detailed GFX and Assets

    So not only are people oblivion about game development they are oblivion about how much it costs to make a game of this scale....

    Hummm funny no wonder the pointless arguments go round and round.
    When the CEO of the company says they are fully funded at 65 million and then at 140ish million whoops we only have enough to finish SQ42 and we hope the sales of that will be enough to let us finish the PU then that would be going over budget.

    Its not the people on the outside looking in that's oblivious, it's the people on the inside that have no clue what they are doing and that should scare you
    there are two types of people in this case (people who grossly underestimate)

    1. those that do it on purpose for one clever reason or another
    2. those that just very simply lack the skill of estimating.

    The vast majority of cases its number 2
    Kefo

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    SEANMCAD said:
    Kefo said:
    Babuinix said:
    How is way over budget?

    - 5 Studios Across the World
    - 400+ Developers
    - Single-Player Campaign
    - MMORPG Universe
    - Highly detailed GFX and Assets

    So not only are people oblivion about game development they are oblivion about how much it costs to make a game of this scale....

    Hummm funny no wonder the pointless arguments go round and round.
    When the CEO of the company says they are fully funded at 65 million and then at 140ish million whoops we only have enough to finish SQ42 and we hope the sales of that will be enough to let us finish the PU then that would be going over budget.

    Its not the people on the outside looking in that's oblivious, it's the people on the inside that have no clue what they are doing and that should scare you
    there are two types of people in this case (people who grossly underestimate)

    1. those that do it on purpose for one clever reason or another
    2. those that just very simply lack the skill of estimating.

    The vast majority of cases its number 2
    Considering CR's past history I am going to agree with you. Which also shows that he doesn't learn from his mistakes and chances are we are going to see history repeat itself.
  • VideoJockeyVideoJockey Member UncommonPosts: 223
    Predicted release dates are usually influenced by finance people. We have a budget of X, we will spend Y per month on development, so they game needs to be done in X/Y = Z months. 

    I see the same thing in construction. Project Manager runs his numbers and says the building should be finished on X date. Three months in the superintendent and foremen are asking for a revised target date. Weather, substandard materials, contractors don't show up, etc. Nothing ever goes exactly to plan. 
    GdemamiBalmong
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