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One of the largest whales in CoE turns on the blatant P2W scheme and asks for changes

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  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 16,947
    Rhoklaw said:
    The monetization model that has been taken way out of context and only reported half of what it involves just to help his troll comments...
    I don't know many people that live in a bubble of denial. I have to say though, that if you honestly think CoE is not P2W with the current monetization, you are welcome to feel unique.
    Even the guy who bought himself two Kingdoms admits it's been P2W from the start... just now he probably felt it was so incredibly over the top that he had to put a stop to it or it would cause everything to come crashing down.  He said he had gotten 4000 messages from his members and others in the community about it.  So many of those folks understand.  It's just a few who buy into the whole "Pay To Build" shenanigans and that nobody will remember the huge advantages these folks bought when launch comes.


    not 4000, he said he got 300 messages and then he blew it up in the general forums with no sauce. everything in CoE has always been a META with him and this is no different.
    Seriously why can't you "fans" get simple facts straight?  Why do I know your game and community better than you guys?   Here is the EXACT quote:

    Nope no King tier information drop. This post as I said before, is me putting together the concerns of 300+ people who have private messaged me 4000+ times over the last week with these exact concerns regarding the EP store.

    So please, think twice before trying to correct me on a factual statement.  Maybe he's bullshitting and you don't believe him, but he says he got OVER 4000 messages on the subject.  His thread also ended up with a +103 rating as of right now so it's fairly obvious that more actual people believed what he posted than didn't.


    dude, I don't care what you quote, I'm in vornair and people are getting tired of his attitude.  300 or 4000 it's all bs.  this guy has bought two kingdoms and a duchy (that we know of) and he plays dirty with everyone because he's got deep pockets.  he's the worst kind of P2W player and there's no reason to believe anything he says.  there's hundreds of us in vornair just waiting for launch so we can thank him personally for buying us a new kingdom.  we play his games and spy and snipe and he is clueless so you should probably check yourself because you have no idea what going on in CoE.
    You are welcome to believe him or not.   What you can;t do is just make up facts.

    My post:  He said he had gotten 4000 messages from his members and others in the community about it. 

    Your response:  not 4000, he said he got 300 messages

    This is clearly wrong as proven above.  Facts are important, and if you want to chop this guy down go for it, but do it armed with reality and not made up stuff.  When you make a factual error, it undercuts your entire message.


    facts?  here's a fact - you have no idea what he was *probably* feeling because all you're doing is copy/pasting from general forums in a game you don't even play.
    See.. again... that's just simply untrue.  

    Here is what I said: Even the guy who bought himself two Kingdoms admits it's been P2W from the start...

    Here is what he posted: Personally I was fine with CoE's form of Pay to Win because it was surmountable in game. 
    ---

    Here is what I said: just now he probably felt it was so incredibly over the top that he had to put a stop to it or it would cause everything to come crashing down.

    Here is what he said: With the latest plans for the EP store we flipped that on its head and said that not only will the people with the most money have the most influence / assets available to them when they get in game, but now they will have further access to rare / high quality materials, buildings, research and the like that make them completely insurmountable for a year possibly two years. If the EP store stays as it is, I can not blame anyone for not wanting to be on the same server as Vornair or Ghettomaster. We have all of the potential to grab up the majority of these high quality / rarity cash grabs from the EP store (sorry Caspian I can't see it as anything other than that at this current moment), and snowball all of those insurmountable advantages to be head and shoulders above any other community on our server. I think that is a very poor outlook for those servers, and I hope that the development team can see that moving forward.

    I can confidently say that these advantages in the hands of my group will equate to a completely insurmountable Kingdom in literally any and every aspect that we choose to go with. If that is a problem with me, it should be a problem with you too.
     congratulations, you're number 6,755 in this most recent vornair META, please continue.
    My friend, this game isn't even in early alpha testing yet. "Meta" forum games are all there is.  
    blorpykinsKyleran

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

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  • YashaXYashaX Member EpicPosts: 3,098
    Rhoklaw said:
    The monetization model that has been taken way out of context and only reported half of what it involves just to help his troll comments...
    I don't know many people that live in a bubble of denial. I have to say though, that if you honestly think CoE is not P2W with the current monetization, you are welcome to feel unique.
    Even the guy who bought himself two Kingdoms admits it's been P2W from the start... just now he probably felt it was so incredibly over the top that he had to put a stop to it or it would cause everything to come crashing down.  He said he had gotten 4000 messages from his members and others in the community about it.  So many of those folks understand.  It's just a few who buy into the whole "Pay To Build" shenanigans and that nobody will remember the huge advantages these folks bought when launch comes.


    not 4000, he said he got 300 messages and then he blew it up in the general forums with no sauce. everything in CoE has always been a META with him and this is no different.
    Seriously why can't you "fans" get simple facts straight?  Why do I know your game and community better than you guys?   Here is the EXACT quote:

    Nope no King tier information drop. This post as I said before, is me putting together the concerns of 300+ people who have private messaged me 4000+ times over the last week with these exact concerns regarding the EP store.

    So please, think twice before trying to correct me on a factual statement.  Maybe he's bullshitting and you don't believe him, but he says he got OVER 4000 messages on the subject.  His thread also ended up with a +103 rating as of right now so it's fairly obvious that more actual people believed what he posted than didn't.


    dude, I don't care what you quote, I'm in vornair and people are getting tired of his attitude.  300 or 4000 it's all bs.  this guy has bought two kingdoms and a duchy (that we know of) and he plays dirty with everyone because he's got deep pockets.  he's the worst kind of P2W player and there's no reason to believe anything he says.  there's hundreds of us in vornair just waiting for launch so we can thank him personally for buying us a new kingdom.  we play his games and spy and snipe and he is clueless so you should probably check yourself because you have no idea what going on in CoE.
    You are welcome to believe him or not.   What you can;t do is just make up facts.

    My post:  He said he had gotten 4000 messages from his members and others in the community about it. 

    Your response:  not 4000, he said he got 300 messages

    This is clearly wrong as proven above.  Facts are important, and if you want to chop this guy down go for it, but do it armed with reality and not made up stuff.  When you make a factual error, it undercuts your entire message.


    facts?  here's a fact - you have no idea what he was *probably* feeling because all you're doing is copy/pasting from general forums in a game you don't even play.
    The irony of this cracks me up: "in a game you don't even play", lol.
    DakeruZionBaneKyleran
    ....
  • ZionBaneZionBane Member UncommonPosts: 328
    "In a game you don't even play"

    Well I have nothing to add to this discussion.... 
    Dakeru
  • Tiamat64Tiamat64 Member RarePosts: 1,545
    edited May 2017
    Yea, that... kinda clinched the discussion, I think.
    ZionBane
  • BestinnaBestinna Member UncommonPosts: 190
    told you so.
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 16,947
    edited May 2017
    YashaX said:

    The irony of this cracks me up: "in a game you don't even play", lol.
    They are playing the "meta" game... :)

    Asm0deus

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

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  • DakeruDakeru Member EpicPosts: 3,802
    Think it's part of why projects like this get funding by fans.
    They totally block out any obvious overpromises and problems in development that may occur.

    In their minds they are already playing the game and it exceeds all their expectations of gameplay and mechanics.
    Slapshot1188Gdemami
    Harbinger of Fools
  • holdenfiveholdenfive Member UncommonPosts: 170
    Im glad someone like Slapshot has the patience to keep tearing this game a new asshole. Ive already wrote the whole thing off as just one gigantic asshole, cbf'ed. 
    Gdemamiaugustgrace
  • SomethingUnusualSomethingUnusual Member UncommonPosts: 546
    Meh, real money games are cool for those that like it (Those Entropia and Second Life fans out there.) but this one kind of took me for surprise. They have a great concept, but a cash shop of any kind would ruin it. 

    I yearn for the days of subscription only MMOs again, no cash shops, just the game and the sub. The free to get adverts shoved down your throat games have their place too, but at least those usually are built from the ground up for it and suited to all audiences generally. 

    Games with an attempt at realism and super-realism (art definitions) really don't have a place for it. Like CoE here. It's understandable from a business perspective, but in an art perspective it's total garbage. Stuff like this takes it from realism to surrealism and comic art (Like when TERA decided to open a cash shop with cartoon props in what was supposed to be a serious atmosphere game, it killed it for a lot of people.)
    Gdemami
  • RenoakuRenoaku Member EpicPosts: 3,157
    Meh, real money games are cool for those that like it (Those Entropia and Second Life fans out there.) but this one kind of took me for surprise. They have a great concept, but a cash shop of any kind would ruin it. 

    I yearn for the days of subscription only MMOs again, no cash shops, just the game and the sub. The free to get adverts shoved down your throat games have their place too, but at least those usually are built from the ground up for it and suited to all audiences generally. 

    Games with an attempt at realism and super-realism (art definitions) really don't have a place for it. Like CoE here. It's understandable from a business perspective, but in an art perspective it's total garbage. Stuff like this takes it from realism to surrealism and comic art (Like when TERA decided to open a cash shop with cartoon props in what was supposed to be a serious atmosphere game, it killed it for a lot of people.)
    Cash shops for real money are not a problem in video games its the way (COE) and other similar games are developed, and run their cash shops that is the problem doing ridiculous things in a cash shop, selling totally Pay 2 Win / Pay 2 Enjoy packs ruins a game for example.

    Entropia & Second life are examples of good games especially Linden Lab new project it, but speaking about more successful games would be (World OF Warcraft)...

    Games with successful Cash Shops

    Overwatch
    World OF Warcraft
    League OF Legends
    DOTA 2
    (I would include Smite but due to limited skins it meets the list as Pay 2 Enjoy)
    Second Life
    Entropia
    EVE Online

    Just my small  list that uses Real Money and is successful without being pay 2 Win or Pay 2 enjoy.
    GdemamiAllerleirauh
  • SomethingUnusualSomethingUnusual Member UncommonPosts: 546
    Renoaku said:
    Meh, real money games are cool for those that like it (Those Entropia and Second Life fans out there.) but this one kind of took me for surprise. They have a great concept, but a cash shop of any kind would ruin it. 

    I yearn for the days of subscription only MMOs again, no cash shops, just the game and the sub. The free to get adverts shoved down your throat games have their place too, but at least those usually are built from the ground up for it and suited to all audiences generally. 

    Games with an attempt at realism and super-realism (art definitions) really don't have a place for it. Like CoE here. It's understandable from a business perspective, but in an art perspective it's total garbage. Stuff like this takes it from realism to surrealism and comic art (Like when TERA decided to open a cash shop with cartoon props in what was supposed to be a serious atmosphere game, it killed it for a lot of people.)
    Cash shops for real money are not a problem in video games its the way (COE) and other similar games are developed, and run their cash shops that is the problem doing ridiculous things in a cash shop, selling totally Pay 2 Win / Pay 2 Enjoy packs ruins a game for example.

    Entropia & Second life are examples of good games especially Linden Lab new project it, but speaking about more successful games would be (World OF Warcraft)...

    Games with successful Cash Shops

    Overwatch
    World OF Warcraft
    League OF Legends
    DOTA 2
    (I would include Smite but due to limited skins it meets the list as Pay 2 Enjoy)
    Second Life
    Entropia
    EVE Online

    Just my small  list that uses Real Money and is successful without being pay 2 Win or Pay 2 enjoy.
    Well, successful and welcomed are pretty different. Kind of part of the age we live in now, kids likely haven't seen games without advertisements and they soon will be adults, it's a pretty odd difference from what we're all used to seeing in what is still a very young industry and technology. 

    I shouldn't have been as aggressive in my sentence structure, it came out I was bashing both, when trying to draw a merited middle ground. 
  • DakeruDakeru Member EpicPosts: 3,802
    Im glad someone like Slapshot has the patience to keep tearing this game a new asshole. Ive already wrote the whole thing off as just one gigantic asshole, cbf'ed. 
    Oh, yeah, for sure.  We should all be thankful that somebody invests so much time and energy towards tearing down a project because they don't like it ... what an admirable goal!
    Presenting the truth about a game is admireable.
    Flat out lying and defending the game because you are a fanatic is what we should loath.

    And you yourself have done more than just 1 questionable thing when it comes to this project.
    You lost your objectivity.
    GdemamiSlapshot1188DistopiaGaendricYashaX
    Harbinger of Fools
  • KavorkaKavorka Member UncommonPosts: 8
    Presenting the truth? what makes it 'truth', because you agree with it?

    The P2W discussion is a good example why it isn't as simple as that

    As far as i know P2W is about getting power for money, and when that power is gone you can buy more power, but in CoE you can't. The cash shop is temporary and everything you buy can/will be lost and you can't get it back by paying for it again, so how is it P2W? 

    Genuine question
    unfilteredJWaugustgraceYashaX
  • DakeruDakeru Member EpicPosts: 3,802
    Kavorka said:
    Presenting the truth? what makes it 'truth', because you agree with it?

    The P2W discussion is a good example why it isn't as simple as that

    As far as i know P2W is about getting power for money, and when that power is gone you can buy more power, but in CoE you can't. The cash shop is temporary and everything you buy can/will be lost and you can't get it back by paying for it again, so how is it P2W? 

    Genuine question
    "The cash shop is temporary"
    It is both sad and shocking that you really believe that.
    Gdemamiholdenfiveaugustgrace
    Harbinger of Fools
  • KavorkaKavorka Member UncommonPosts: 8
    have they changed their entire game design and made the cash shop permanent?

    if they haven't you really don't have a valid point there, it's just your cynical belief.
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 16,947
    Kavorka said:
    Presenting the truth? what makes it 'truth', because you agree with it?

    The P2W discussion is a good example why it isn't as simple as that

    As far as i know P2W is about getting power for money, and when that power is gone you can buy more power, but in CoE you can't. The cash shop is temporary and everything you buy can/will be lost and you can't get it back by paying for it again, so how is it P2W? 

    Genuine question
    There is an entire thread on the subject here.  No need to rehash.  This is the MOST P2W concept I have ever seen.   The developer's "defense" is that it's only for 5% of the population and the rest who join at launch wont even notice.  That kind of arrogance is prevalent throughout the community.   It's predicated on treating the 5% like Kings (literally) and then magically assuming that the population will grow a MINIMUM of 2000% at launch to provide the "commoners" for the elite to rule over.   Hell... even just 2 days ago they kicked it up ANOTHER notch and let you spend $10 to buy tokens that will grow the size of your towns and villages.

    Heck, even one of the BIGGEST Whales.. Adam.. posted that he understood the game was P2W from the beginning but that he was "fine with CoE's form of Pay to Win because it was surmountable in game".  He felt the latest increases such as buying rare and legendary items, resources, castles and blueprints were making the advantages insurmountable.  So feel free to argue about the degree of P2W and whether its now reached the insurmountable threshold, but it's not even debatable that it's blatantly P2W.
    GdemamiYashaX

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

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    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • KavorkaKavorka Member UncommonPosts: 8
    Kavorka said:
    Presenting the truth? what makes it 'truth', because you agree with it?

    The P2W discussion is a good example why it isn't as simple as that

    As far as i know P2W is about getting power for money, and when that power is gone you can buy more power, but in CoE you can't. The cash shop is temporary and everything you buy can/will be lost and you can't get it back by paying for it again, so how is it P2W? 

    Genuine question
    There is an entire thread on the subject here.  No need to rehash.  This is the MOST P2W concept I have ever seen.   The developer's "defense" is that it's only for 5% of the population and the rest who join at launch wont even notice.  That kind of arrogance is prevalent throughout the community.   It's predicated on treating the 5% like Kings (literally) and then magically assuming that the population will grow a MINIMUM of 2000% at launch to provide the "commoners" for the elite to rule over.   Hell... even just 2 days ago they kicked it up ANOTHER notch and let you spend $10 to buy tokens that will grow the size of your towns and villages.

    Heck, even one of the BIGGEST Whales.. Adam.. posted that he understood the game was P2W from the beginning but that he was "fine with CoE's form of Pay to Win because it was surmountable in game".  He felt the latest increases such as buying rare and legendary items, resources, castles and blueprints were making the advantages insurmountable.  So feel free to argue about the degree of P2W and whether its now reached the insurmountable threshold, but it's not even debatable that it's blatantly P2W.
    Like you said, it's the same concept they have had from the beginning (and since there is no definition of P2W it's all just opinions). They are doing what they said they would do, fill the world with players and build up a world that is 'ready' for the next wave of players. They didn't lie and say this would be just another standard mmorpg and then went and changed everything, i feel they where pretty clear this would be something new.

    It's pretty obvious you are not interested in playing this game and they haven't scammed anyone, so i have to ask why are you so active on this forum?

    It says alot about Adam and his way of thinking that he saw the game as P2W from the start. There are other 'whales' that doesn't agree with him at all, so why use his words as the truth of the matter?

    YashaX
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 16,947
    Kavorka said:


    It says alot about Adam and his way of thinking that he saw the game as P2W from the start. There are other 'whales' that doesn't agree with him at all, so why use his words as the truth of the matter?

    I use the fact that the thread was 19 pages long and received +106 rating as evidence of support within the community.  Nothing more or less.

    GdemamiYashaX

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • holdenfiveholdenfive Member UncommonPosts: 170
    Im glad someone like Slapshot has the patience to keep tearing this game a new asshole. Ive already wrote the whole thing off as just one gigantic asshole, cbf'ed. 
    Oh, yeah, for sure.  We should all be thankful that somebody invests so much time and energy towards tearing down a project because they don't like it ... what an admirable goal!
    This is coming from the person who already said they didn't know this information and that it caused you to re-evaluate your position on the game, that's more irony than the upgraded forums are designed to handle. Yes, you, of all people, should be thankful that someone (anyone) is investing their time and energy into researching the game for you, since you were obviously supporting it without doing so.  
    Slapshot1188unfilteredJWYashaX
  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    Dakeru said:
    Im glad someone like Slapshot has the patience to keep tearing this game a new asshole. Ive already wrote the whole thing off as just one gigantic asshole, cbf'ed. 
    Oh, yeah, for sure.  We should all be thankful that somebody invests so much time and energy towards tearing down a project because they don't like it ... what an admirable goal!
    Presenting the truth about a game is admireable.
    Flat out lying and defending the game because you are a fanatic is what we should loath.

    And you yourself have done more than just 1 questionable thing when it comes to this project.
    You lost your objectivity.
    What truth? there is no game to see in practice, therefor we do not know how all of this will play out. Don't mistake confirmation bias for truth. 
    [Deleted User]YashaX

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • KavorkaKavorka Member UncommonPosts: 8
    Kavorka said:


    It says alot about Adam and his way of thinking that he saw the game as P2W from the start. There are other 'whales' that doesn't agree with him at all, so why use his words as the truth of the matter?

    I use the fact that the thread was 19 pages long and received +106 rating as evidence of support within the community.  Nothing more or less.

    and Caspians reply has +134, not that any of those ratings means much

    just a quick glance at all your other threads make it pretty obvious you attack anything that caspian say, so let's not pretend you wouldn't have made this thread even if Adams post had 0 rating.

    do you feel like replying to the other part of my post?


    DistopiaSlapshot1188[Deleted User]
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 16,947
    Kavorka said:

    just a quick glance at all your other threads make it pretty obvious you attack anything that caspian say, so let's not pretend you wouldn't have made this thread even if Adams post had 0 rating.




    Actually... if you actually DID look you would see that I don't "attack" the vast majority of what Caspien says.  I probably comment on less than 1% of it.   Once the bullshit meter goes off, I post. Pretty simple concept.
    Gdemami

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

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    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • holdenfiveholdenfive Member UncommonPosts: 170
    Im glad someone like Slapshot has the patience to keep tearing this game a new asshole. Ive already wrote the whole thing off as just one gigantic asshole, cbf'ed. 
    Oh, yeah, for sure.  We should all be thankful that somebody invests so much time and energy towards tearing down a project because they don't like it ... what an admirable goal!
    This is coming from the person who already said they didn't know this information and that it caused you to re-evaluate your position on the game, that's more irony than the upgraded forums are designed to handle. Yes, you, of all people, should be thankful that someone (anyone) is investing their time and energy into researching the game for you, since you were obviously supporting it without doing so.  
    I still support the game just not this particular design design, although now that I've read Caspian's explanation I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt to see how it plays out.  And no, I'm not thankful for people who consistently push the narrative of "See, I told you this game was trash!".  Sharing information is helpful and appreciated; the bullshit narrative that does no good for anyone is not.
    So yesterday or whenever you were all doom and gloom 'this decision will destroy the game' but now because Caspian said something you've completely flipped on that perspective and you're all 'ho hum we'll see how it goes'. And even though this thread gave you really good information that you deemed important, according to your prior statements, now it's just a complete waste of time because of the messenger. lol This is what we call in politics a partisan bias, you're not concerned with actual facts as much as you are with who said what. And you have an emotional allegience with Caspian, which seems to override your own judgements. I'm really shocked to hear that.

    You're clearly not even attempting to conceal your narrative, because the chronology of your posts on this thread flies in the face of all reason. I fail to see how one bias is more beneficial than another. But maybe you could tell us, being from the school of Caspian, he thinks it's wrong to openly dislike projects because it might hit developers (him) in the wallet. On second thought, I take that back, it is incredibly beneficial to people to continue to hate on this game, they need to know what kind of scumbags they're dealing with.
    GdemamiYashaXDistopia
  • DakeruDakeru Member EpicPosts: 3,802
    Distopia said:
    Dakeru said:
    Im glad someone like Slapshot has the patience to keep tearing this game a new asshole. Ive already wrote the whole thing off as just one gigantic asshole, cbf'ed. 
    Oh, yeah, for sure.  We should all be thankful that somebody invests so much time and energy towards tearing down a project because they don't like it ... what an admirable goal!
    Presenting the truth about a game is admireable.
    Flat out lying and defending the game because you are a fanatic is what we should loath.

    And you yourself have done more than just 1 questionable thing when it comes to this project.
    You lost your objectivity.
    What truth? there is no game to see in practice, therefor we do not know how all of this will play out. Don't mistake confirmation bias for truth. 
    The truth of him quoting people but no matter if he quotes top donators or even Caspian himself he always get's the "you are spreading misinformation" answer by die hard fans.

    "This is what Caspian himself said"
    -Doesn't matter, you have no idea!
    GdemamiSlapshot1188KyleranYashaXDistopia
    Harbinger of Fools
  • MrTugglesMrTuggles Member UncommonPosts: 188
    kjempff said:
    Pay to win a game that is at this point mostly an idea and a future (probably unrealistic) set of features. You know nothing about how all those promises will be realised or play in a possibly finished game.

    I do not understand the mentality of accepting p2w in any multiplayer game, but p2w for game that is theoretical, that is so far out I have no words.
    There has actually been quite a bit of information released about how they are going about building the game, features, etc. The back end system that they are building seems pretty amazing with how it will allow them to compartmentalize and test features onto the pre-alpha game. They have done things the way they have to allow the community who backed the game to help influence how things are built from pre-alpha onward. 



    It seems that this tends to happen with every new game that gets released. You get a core group of "haters" on the MMORPG forums who continually try to dictate the narrative by snipping certain forum posts, announcements, etc instead of actually providing the entire story. Kind of like how the media today is highly biased either one way or the other.

    To anyone who is interested in the game: Go look at the forums, read the Development Journals, read the forums at CoE and build your own perspective of the game instead of allowing a certain few people to continually paint a picture that isn't quite as clear as they make it seem on these forums.
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