Because I am the hero of my own story. I don't want to be ganked by someone five times my level as that would take me out of the experience of the game. But of course, it heavily depends on what kind of game it is and how their pvp is implemented.
"Why Do You Hate for Your Character to Be Killed By Another Player Character?"
I play MMORPGs mainly for the enjoyment I get from progressing my character. When I am in the game, I like to be doing something that progresses some part of my character ie, level, crafting, making money, etc. In the large majority of games, open world PvP does nothing to progress my character. So when someone comes up and ganks my character while I'm trying to accomplish something, I consider it a waste of my time. It serves no purpose in my view of how I enjoy the game. I don't play games for "thrills" or power trips. I get my thrills and excitement from real life.
"Why Do You Hate for Your Character to Be Killed By Another Player Character?"
I play MMORPGs mainly for the enjoyment I get from progressing my character. When I am in the game, I like to be doing something that progresses some part of my character ie, level, crafting, making money, etc. In the large majority of games, open world PvP does nothing to progress my character. So when someone comes up and ganks my character while I'm trying to accomplish something, I consider it a waste of my time. It serves no purpose in my view of how I enjoy the game. I don't play games for "thrills" or power trips. I get my thrills and excitement from real life.
I totally understand what you're saying. As for myself, I started playing mmorpgs for the first time in 2009 when I was 32. Haven't played the whole time, I've taken long breaks from them. Tried many, but only felt it worthwhile to reach max level in 3 of them. The first two were only really fun because they were my first long-term investment in mmorpgs. The third one was something a little different, but still basically a WoW clone/imitator with different bells and whistles. At this point, I'm totally sick and tired of everything the standard themepark PvE game has to offer me. Follow the dotted line and obey orders for the most part. I can't effect or change the game world in any meaningful and potentially permanent or long-lasting way. I'm just a tourist at worst, a soldier/mercenary at best. Hero you say? Heroes don't normally ask for or accept a reward every time they do a good deed. As for PvP, it is a cruel joke in basically every mmorpg out there. Horrible implementation. If you can't do something right, don't do it all. That's what I would like to tell all these developers out there.
I didn't think you would. You never experienced mob trains.
"I used to think the worst thing in life was to be all alone. It's not. The worst thing in life is to end up with people who make you feel all alone." Robin Williams
Friendly competition's are some of the best fun in an MMO.
Let me know when you find PvP that can be considered friendly.
Most of of the time it's PvD...player vs douchebag.
Not necessarily easy to find a lot of activities that are truly friendly unless I'm doing it with friends. Strangers may or may not give one fig about me. Humanity's capacity for cruelty is fairly broad. Kindness is not something I expect most of the time, so I'm often pleasantly surprised when I experience it from another person. Sometimes I do take kindness for granted from real life family or friends, but I really shouldn't. And by kind, I don't mean nice. Being nice is just being polite to me. One can also be kind but not nice at the same time.
As for douchebags, there are plenty that play PvE only games as well. As far as I can tell douchebags are littered throughout the entire world pretty evenly. Most likely more douchebags than non-douchebags as well.
Because I am the hero of my own story. I don't want to be ganked by someone five times my level as that would take me out of the experience of the game. But of course, it heavily depends on what kind of game it is and how their pvp is implemented.
Edit: I see you have added to your question. I would hate it if mobs could loot my corpse, I quite like most kinds of level or gear progression, I don't know any game where you can become god, and "usually" won't help when, if it's possible to do, everyone is going to snipe with arrows or cast deadly spells from long distance or sneak up and backstab you.
But actually you aren't the hero of your own story. Not in any themepark mmorpg I know. You experience the same general story as everyone else. Or you experience the same general story as everyone in your race or alignment in the case of games such World of Warcraft and Everquest 2.
Also, what real glory is there in being a hero if every other player is a hero? I don't see games with generic questlines (in a closed narrative) that hand out money and gear for doing quests as rpgs. I see them as soldier/mercenary simulators.
Why do you like level and gear progression?
You can't actually become a god living in some heaven or astral plane, but you can certainly become a god in comparison to lower level, less well-equipped player-characters. Isn't a max level character in WoW a god in comparison to the ant that is a level one noob?
And no. Not everyone's character will be able to shoot arrows or use magic or use rogue skills. And not every character will be able to do things as well as another character.
What if magic is rare and it's very difficult to become a wizard? What if you can only potentially master one or two skills or abilities? What if you need to be a genius or a prodigy (very high intelligence) to even hope to master more than that? And what if the skills and abilities you can even be potentially somewhat good, adequate, indifferent, poor, or terrible with are also limited to varying degrees?
In my current MMO, FF14, you are the "Hero of light" while other players are just other adventurers with the "echo". Within their story I feel pretty much like a hero.
Themepark games usually have a story of some kind to make your character special.
Because I get a feeling of progression, I can notice when I get better and it feels good.
But when you actually fight gods in these games you understand that you are not one of them.
If that's the way to kill people in one shot they will.
If magic is rare than they'll just use a bow. Or follow a guide on how to get magic on the internet. If a guide wouldn't help (say, random generated quests), then the game is unfair and I can't see people playing that kind of game for long.
No one would want to play a MMO where you can't feel powerful, and if they can find a way to feel powerful (aka, one shot kills in a open pvp game) they will 99% of the time do just that.
There is no reason to ever pick up a shield (in pvp) if you can just shoot one arrow/cast one spell/backstab once to get the kill.
I thoroughly enjoyed Final Fantasy as a kid. I played Final Fantasy II (IV in Japan) on Super Nintendo when I was 15 years-old. Final Fantasy III (VI in Japan) and Final Fantasy VII-X weren't too bad either at the time I played them. But now I despise Final Fantasy in all its various forms.
I didn't think you would. You never experienced mob trains.
I've heard of them though. I had veteran Everquest 1 players in my Everquest 2 guild. They told me a lot about the first Everquest. Sounded interesting.
I can't effect or change the game world in any meaningful and potentially permanent or long-lasting way.
You shouldn't be able to. Only huge groups following the same goal should IMO when it comes to MMO's.
Maybe you shouldn't be able to. I want to. And for the record, I totally disagree with your opinion. Absolutely, positively, no possible way I would ever agree with even if you tried to pay me. My beliefs and integrity are not for sale. You may be selling, but I'm not buying. I left my wallet at home, and home is far, far away.
I can't effect or change the game world in any meaningful and potentially permanent or long-lasting way.
You shouldn't be able to. Only huge groups following the same goal should IMO when it comes to MMO's.
Maybe you shouldn't be able to. I want to. And for the record, I totally disagree with your opinion. Absolutely, positively, no possible way I would ever agree with even if you tried to pay me. My beliefs and integrity are not for sale. You may be selling, but I'm not buying. I left my wallet at home, and home is far, far away.
All I'm saying is that making lasting changes in virtual worlds through solo actions should be as hard as it is in the real world.
Can you explain to me how you would like to change these worlds through solo play?
I play MMOs first and foremost for immersion in another world. If another character killing mine makes sense for contributing to the immersion of the world, then I'm totally ok with it. In my experience, about 95% of the time, it does not.
Most worlds - regardless of being fictional - aren't defined as being filled entirely by violent psychopaths, so if everyone acts like one, then breaks immersion for me. On the other hand, if I'm playing in a world where my character is at war or in a stated conflict with another, then I have no problem whatsoever with violence being used.
Basically, if the player that killed me can provide a sensible and "sane" explanation for what motivated his character to murder someone (in this case my character), then I'm probably ok with it happening. I don't actually need to be provided this explanation, only to be reasonably certain that it exists. If the explanation is "i did it cuz im l33t, dudebrah, its a game brah, qqmoar", then this does not contribute to my enjoyment of the game world. There are plenty of non-roleplaying games where people can kill each other without reasons. I've playeded and enjoy quite a few of them myself. But that's not what I consider RPGs to be for.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
I am cool with it if it is a good fight, but I hate cheap kills. I would much rather lose a good, fun fight than win a cheap one. If you are 30 levels higher than me and are camping lowbie zones, or if you wait for me to be at 10% health from another fight before you jump me then you're just a virtual coward. If it is full loot, understandable, otherwise....coward.
In the end I don't stay mad long, I just think to myself if someone is scared to lose a fight in a video game that has no consequences you must really be a wuss irl lol. Joke's on them.
I can't effect or change the game world in any meaningful and potentially permanent or long-lasting way.
You shouldn't be able to. Only huge groups following the same goal should IMO when it comes to MMO's.
Maybe you shouldn't be able to. I want to. And for the record, I totally disagree with your opinion. Absolutely, positively, no possible way I would ever agree with even if you tried to pay me. My beliefs and integrity are not for sale. You may be selling, but I'm not buying. I left my wallet at home, and home is far, far away.
All I'm saying is that making lasting changes in virtual worlds through solo actions should be as hard as it is in the real world.
Can you explain to me how you would like to change these worlds through solo play?
It's not hard at all to make lasting changes through solo actions in the real world. I can drop down a tree. I can plant a new tree.
But why do you assume I only want to change the world through solo play? Maybe I want to change the world through group play too.
But for the sake of argument, and since you asked, I would like a thief to be able to steal the crown of a king. I would like an assassin to be able to kill a king permanently. I would like a fighter to be able to replace the king.
I play MMOs first and foremost for immersion in another world. If another character killing mine makes sense for contributing to the immersion of the world, then I'm totally ok with it. In my experience, about 95% of the time, it does not.
Most worlds - regardless of being fictional - aren't defined as being filled entirely by violent psychopaths, so if everyone acts like one, then breaks immersion for me. On the other hand, if I'm playing in a world where my character is at war or in a stated conflict with another, then I have no problem whatsoever with violence being used.
Basically, if the player that killed me can provide a sensible and "sane" explanation for what motivated his character to murder someone (in this case my character), then I'm probably ok with it happening. I don't actually need to be provided this explanation, only to be reasonably certain that it exists. If the explanation is "i did it cuz im l33t, dudebrah, its a game brah, qqmoar", then this does not contribute to my enjoyment of the game world. There are plenty of non-roleplaying games where people can kill each other without reasons. I've playeded and enjoy quite a few of them myself. But that's not what I consider RPGs to be for.
You're right. I totally agree with you. Random murder for sport is fairly uncommon in the real world. It was even more rare in the past when communities depended on individual members for survival. If a game world was constructed properly, random killings for no reason whatsoever would be very uncommon as well.
An AI can never be another player simply because an AI cannot get any satisfaction from killing me. I hate other players getting any pleasure or satisfaction from killing me and I will not engage in that activity unless I expressly consent to it.
I dont mind at all, because thats what PvP MMO games are all about.
You get ganked, you get your guild you gank back, etc....
When you jump in the pool, you know you are going to get wet. Getting ganked in PvP MMOs is the same way.
Open world PvP MMOs are setup to not be fair or balanced - you will get outnumbered, outgeared, etc... if you are not willing to accept this, dont play them.
The only place where I draw the line is cheating via 3rd party exploits - i am not ok getting killed by someone running at 10x speed and in god-mode. Those I record and report.
When I want fair and balanced PvP I play MOBAs.
But what if there was a way to make mmorpg pvp reasonably fair, balanced, and competitive. If it was possible, would you enjoy that better?
I cannot handle it. When I first started PvPing in Wow and I got killed repeatedly or camped at the graveyard I was close to tears. I can take multiple deaths and even losing levels and gear in Everquest while camping in Fear or Hate but I was never as upset then as when another player killed me in WoW. I cannot explain it,I just reacted that way so I try my best to avoid PvP.
I played BDO though so I am still willing to try these games as long as I am relatively safe I will play them.
I am cool with it if it is a good fight, but I hate cheap kills. I would much rather lose a good, fun fight than win a cheap one. If you are 30 levels higher than me and are camping lowbie zones, or if you wait for me to be at 10% health from another fight before you jump me then you're just a virtual coward. If it is full loot, understandable, otherwise....coward.
In the end I don't stay mad long, I just think to myself if someone is scared to lose a fight in a video game that has no consequences you must really be a wuss irl lol. Joke's on them.
Yes. I don't believe fights where the winner is determined before the encounter even begins belong in PvP. If tactics or strategy or outmaneuvering or any sort of skill is involved to kill an opponent quickly and easily, that's fine, but not if it's just because they have however many higher levels and they're wearing however many higher levels and gear. Being crushed like an ant by a player-character who is a god in comparison to you is never fun. If there is pvp in a game with level and gear progression, I don't see why there's any good reason to allow someone who's not on the same level to attack someone else. What's the point of it? And gear disparity can be an issue even if both are on the same character level. What's the point of allowing someone with max level raid gear to attack someone without max level raid gear?
Why would I ever want my gameplay to be interrupted by some asshole with a hardon for killing other players?
I don't enjoy PvP and will not play games where others can attack me without my consent.
Lol its exactly the opposite.
Seasoned PvP players dont get a rise from killing others at all, they kill and move on without their heart rate increasing at all. Kind of like smacking a mosquito, its nothing to them.
The only players who get an adrenaline rush are noobs.
When you PvP a lot, other players become like mobs, Ive killed other players without even realizing it.
So yeah, hardon for killing others... nah, it actually becomes routine even relaxing
That makes sense. Still, I don't see what would be the point of smacking down every bug you come across. Or killing that same bug multiple times.
An AI can never be another player simply because an AI cannot get any satisfaction from killing me. I hate other players getting any pleasure or satisfaction from killing me and I will not engage in that activity unless I expressly consent to it.
I can totally understand if that's the way you feel about it.
Comments
Did you read my reply to Noxeron?
I play MMORPGs mainly for the enjoyment I get from progressing my character. When I am in the game, I like to be doing something that progresses some part of my character ie, level, crafting, making money, etc. In the large majority of games, open world PvP does nothing to progress my character. So when someone comes up and ganks my character while I'm trying to accomplish something, I consider it a waste of my time. It serves no purpose in my view of how I enjoy the game. I don't play games for "thrills" or power trips. I get my thrills and excitement from real life.
Let me know when you find PvP that can be considered friendly.
Most of of the time it's PvD...player vs douchebag.
~~ postlarval ~~
I totally understand what you're saying. As for myself, I started playing mmorpgs for the first time in 2009 when I was 32. Haven't played the whole time, I've taken long breaks from them. Tried many, but only felt it worthwhile to reach max level in 3 of them. The first two were only really fun because they were my first long-term investment in mmorpgs. The third one was something a little different, but still basically a WoW clone/imitator with different bells and whistles. At this point, I'm totally sick and tired of everything the standard themepark PvE game has to offer me. Follow the dotted line and obey orders for the most part. I can't effect or change the game world in any meaningful and potentially permanent or long-lasting way. I'm just a tourist at worst, a soldier/mercenary at best. Hero you say? Heroes don't normally ask for or accept a reward every time they do a good deed. As for PvP, it is a cruel joke in basically every mmorpg out there. Horrible implementation. If you can't do something right, don't do it all. That's what I would like to tell all these developers out there.
I didn't think you would. You never experienced mob trains.
You shouldn't be able to. Only huge groups following the same goal should IMO when it comes to MMO's.
As for douchebags, there are plenty that play PvE only games as well. As far as I can tell douchebags are littered throughout the entire world pretty evenly. Most likely more douchebags than non-douchebags as well.
I thoroughly enjoyed Final Fantasy as a kid. I played Final Fantasy II (IV in Japan) on Super Nintendo when I was 15 years-old. Final Fantasy III (VI in Japan) and Final Fantasy VII-X weren't too bad either at the time I played them. But now I despise Final Fantasy in all its various forms.
I've heard of them though. I had veteran Everquest 1 players in my Everquest 2 guild. They told me a lot about the first Everquest. Sounded interesting.
Then it turns into a gang of douchebags.
Maybe you shouldn't be able to. I want to. And for the record, I totally disagree with your opinion. Absolutely, positively, no possible way I would ever agree with even if you tried to pay me. My beliefs and integrity are not for sale. You may be selling, but I'm not buying. I left my wallet at home, and home is far, far away.
Can you explain to me how you would like to change these worlds through solo play?
Most worlds - regardless of being fictional - aren't defined as being filled entirely by violent psychopaths, so if everyone acts like one, then breaks immersion for me. On the other hand, if I'm playing in a world where my character is at war or in a stated conflict with another, then I have no problem whatsoever with violence being used.
Basically, if the player that killed me can provide a sensible and "sane" explanation for what motivated his character to murder someone (in this case my character), then I'm probably ok with it happening. I don't actually need to be provided this explanation, only to be reasonably certain that it exists. If the explanation is "i did it cuz im l33t, dudebrah, its a game brah, qqmoar", then this does not contribute to my enjoyment of the game world. There are plenty of non-roleplaying games where people can kill each other without reasons. I've playeded and enjoy quite a few of them myself. But that's not what I consider RPGs to be for.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
Why would I ever want my gameplay to be interrupted by some asshole with a hardon for killing other players?
I don't enjoy PvP and will not play games where others can attack me without my consent.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
Benjamin Franklin
That could also describe the roster of some guilds on PvE servers. Especially some of the elitist prick raid guilds.
In the end I don't stay mad long, I just think to myself if someone is scared to lose a fight in a video game that has no consequences you must really be a wuss irl lol. Joke's on them.
It's not hard at all to make lasting changes through solo actions in the real world. I can drop down a tree. I can plant a new tree.
But why do you assume I only want to change the world through solo play? Maybe I want to change the world through group play too.
But for the sake of argument, and since you asked, I would like a thief to be able to steal the crown of a king. I would like an assassin to be able to kill a king permanently. I would like a fighter to be able to replace the king.
You're right. I totally agree with you. Random murder for sport is fairly uncommon in the real world. It was even more rare in the past when communities depended on individual members for survival. If a game world was constructed properly, random killings for no reason whatsoever would be very uncommon as well.
But what if there was a way to make mmorpg pvp reasonably fair, balanced, and competitive. If it was possible, would you enjoy that better?
I understand. PvP will never be for everyone, no matter how it's implemented in a game.
I played BDO though so I am still willing to try these games as long as I am relatively safe I will play them.
Yes. I don't believe fights where the winner is determined before the encounter even begins belong in PvP. If tactics or strategy or outmaneuvering or any sort of skill is involved to kill an opponent quickly and easily, that's fine, but not if it's just because they have however many higher levels and they're wearing however many higher levels and gear. Being crushed like an ant by a player-character who is a god in comparison to you is never fun. If there is pvp in a game with level and gear progression, I don't see why there's any good reason to allow someone who's not on the same level to attack someone else. What's the point of it? And gear disparity can be an issue even if both are on the same character level. What's the point of allowing someone with max level raid gear to attack someone without max level raid gear?
That makes sense. Still, I don't see what would be the point of smacking down every bug you come across. Or killing that same bug multiple times.
I can totally understand if that's the way you feel about it.