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Morrowind PTS Patch Notes Released, Controversy Sparked - Elder Scrolls Online News

SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
edited April 2017 in News & Features Discussion

imageMorrowind PTS Patch Notes Released, Controversy Sparked - Elder Scrolls Online News

The flames of controversy are swirling around the Elder Scrolls Online forums thanks to today's release of the Morrowind PTS patch notes. Of particular concern to many players are the large changes being made to resource management and the effect it will have on some classes. Developers argue that resource management has become

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Comments

  • tyrrintyrrin Member UncommonPosts: 39
    This wasn't just a nerf; the devs decided to destroy several classes by taking away critical passives that defined certain classes in order to force players to use the new warden class. This was the last draw for me, finally walking away from this game; I canceled my account, deleted my toons and uninstalled. I think that I am finally done with MMO's entirely.
  • SlyLoKSlyLoK Member RarePosts: 2,698
    I like the change. Players shouldn't be able spam abilities near infinitely.
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719

    DMKano said:

    Nerfs are always fun, arent they? ;)


    The eternal quest for mediocrity: They think they've balanced something; we find the better options; they nerf those and buff the lesser ones; rinse, repeat.
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • DragnelusDragnelus Member EpicPosts: 3,503
    Templar healers!



    Wasnt sure about trying eso out but with this I see hope for the warden healer! Now I will check it out, never liked templar healing.

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719

    Torval said:

    Every time a game locks more quality of life feature behind a subscription they devalue the box fee you pay until it just becomes an additional tax. I really think they'd love to go back to the sub, like TOR and a couple others.


    At some point in their life cycle that initial box fee distinction of B2P games becomes rather silly when you compare it to just plain F2P games doesn't it? Especially so when it gets routinely discounted down under $10.

    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • LheiahLheiah Member UncommonPosts: 190
    Poor, poor 'dps meter Joeys'. Toxicity to da the left, to the left, everything you own in the box to da left.

    Always believed worse thing game devs have ever done is expose numbers to players.
  • HarikenHariken Member EpicPosts: 2,680
    All mmo's do this eventually. Its the nature of the genre. But yeah it sucks and if you want to play the game you have to go with the changes. I gave up on this game awhile ago because i got tired of the limited skills bar. If this was to sell the Warden class though bad move.
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719

    Hariken said:

    If this was to sell the Warden class though bad move.


    I'm not seeing that. The biggest nerfs are to resource management and + damage Champion Point passives and armor-based regen which affect all classes
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • HarikenHariken Member EpicPosts: 2,680

    Iselin said:



    Hariken said:


    If this was to sell the Warden class though bad move.




    I'm not seeing that. The biggest nerfs are to resource management and + damage Champion Point passives and armor-based regen which affect all classes


    I hope your right. At this point its hard to tell.
  • DragnelusDragnelus Member EpicPosts: 3,503

    Iselin said:



    Hariken said:


    If this was to sell the Warden class though bad move.




    I'm not seeing that. The biggest nerfs are to resource management and + damage Champion Point passives and armor-based regen which affect all classes


    Healing templar is nerfed hard, no more major mending. Nerfed spears and now every other healer can kinda use it with necro orb. And repentance dont gives stamina anymore. 

  • AlomarAlomar Member RarePosts: 1,299
    Resource management changes aren't the main issue the majority of the community disagrees with. This has always been a long believed issue that hindered balancing and made the game's combat too easy. The recent no cp pvp event really enlightened the remaining few who didn't believe this, and convinced the developers it was time for a change (players thought this 2 years ago).

    The "controversy" is about the continued class nerfs that this is just another example of, meanwhile the new class (warden) remains in a very strong advantage over all others. While ZOS's poor balancing attempts will likely ultimately nerf the warden, it will be delayed by months if not more. Making the Morrowind expansion not an optional but mandatory purchase for both endgame pve'ers and pvp'ers. The complaint is that this is an underhanded scheme to sell more copies and place the game behind another pay wall/barrier.
    Haxus Council Member
    21  year MMO veteran 
    PvP Raid Leader 
    Lover of The Witcher & CD Projekt Red
  • StoneRosesStoneRoses Member RarePosts: 1,771

    SlyLoK said:

    I like the change. Players shouldn't be able spam abilities near infinitely.



    This right here!
    MMORPGs aren't easy, You're just too PRO!
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719

    Alomar said:

    Resource management changes aren't the main issue the majority of the community disagrees with. This has always been a long believed issue that hindered balancing and made the game's combat too easy. The recent no cp pvp event really enlightened the remaining few who didn't believe this, and convinced the developers it was time for a change (players thought this 2 years ago).



    The "controversy" is about the continued class nerfs that this is just another example of, meanwhile the new class (warden) remains in a very strong advantage over all others. While ZOS's poor balancing attempts will likely ultimately nerf the warden, it will be delayed by months if not more. Making the Morrowind expansion not an optional but mandatory purchase for both endgame pve'ers and pvp'ers. The complaint is that this is an underhanded scheme to sell more copies and place the game behind another pay wall/barrier.


    That a new class in an MMO expansion is OP'd for some time is not exactly news - it's routine. I actually said as much about the Warden when it was first announced.

    How OP'd we won't know for a while yet but if they become the preferred end game healer and end game tank and end game stamina DPS and end game magicka DPS then we'll know what they're doing won't we?
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • DaelonDulucDaelonDuluc Member UncommonPosts: 4
    I gave up on ESO long ago after 1) It became a chore rather than a joy to play because EVERYTHING had to be managed and maximized. It just wasn't fun and 2) They completely screwed all their long-term subscribers that have put 100s of dollars in their game as well as paid a monthly subscription by, basically, saying: "Guess what! You mean nothing. Go buy an entirely new game that's the same thing, but we know we can soak you for more money" rather than sticking to their standard practices of the last few years.

    I still have the game, but I haven't booted it up in months and cancelled my subscription.

    Good riddance.

    They've soiled the good name of TES. Call it what it is Zeni. A cash grab that is loosely (and I do mean loosely) related to a series of actually good games that was made by one of our owners other companies that we saw a chance to make oodles of money off of the gullible.

    Sheesh
  • khameleonkhameleon Member UncommonPosts: 486


    I gave up on ESO long ago after 1) It became a chore rather than a joy to play because EVERYTHING had to be managed and maximized. It just wasn't fun and 2) They completely screwed all their long-term subscribers that have put 100s of dollars in their game as well as paid a monthly subscription by, basically, saying: "Guess what! You mean nothing. Go buy an entirely new game that's the same thing, but we know we can soak you for more money" rather than sticking to their standard practices of the last few years.



    I still have the game, but I haven't booted it up in months and cancelled my subscription.



    Good riddance.



    They've soiled the good name of TES. Call it what it is Zeni. A cash grab that is loosely (and I do mean loosely) related to a series of actually good games that was made by one of our owners other companies that we saw a chance to make oodles of money off of the gullible.



    Sheesh


    Your loss, its one of the best MMORPGs out there no matter what flaws you point out.

    GAME TIL YOU DIE!!!!

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342
    edited April 2017
    Torval said:
    Revenue equilibrium - stable customer base,


    solid revenue stream, profitable - is unacceptable in the business


    world. The only acceptable thing is growth and profit increase.

    Of course it is unacceptable.

    Where do you think the money to fund games(or any business in fact) comes from? From entities that make 'solid profits' or entities that show substantial profit growth?

    Growth is essential.
  • DaelonDulucDaelonDuluc Member UncommonPosts: 4

    khameleon said:





    I gave up on ESO long ago after 1) It became a chore rather than a joy to play because EVERYTHING had to be managed and maximized. It just wasn't fun and 2) They completely screwed all their long-term subscribers that have put 100s of dollars in their game as well as paid a monthly subscription by, basically, saying: "Guess what! You mean nothing. Go buy an entirely new game that's the same thing, but we know we can soak you for more money" rather than sticking to their standard practices of the last few years.





    I still have the game, but I haven't booted it up in months and cancelled my subscription.





    Good riddance.





    They've soiled the good name of TES. Call it what it is Zeni. A cash grab that is loosely (and I do mean loosely) related to a series of actually good games that was made by one of our owners other companies that we saw a chance to make oodles of money off of the gullible.





    Sheesh




    Your loss, its one of the best MMORPGs out there no matter what flaws you point out.



    Since I'm the non-competitive type, I refused to fit in to the narrow little molds that so many wanted me to and couldn't have cared less about all the "achievements". I'll stick with playing games I actually enjoy and having people enjoy my videos, commentary and shots.

    I'm glad you enjoy it though.
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 7,591

    Gdemami said:

    Torval said:
    Revenue equilibrium - stable customer base,



    solid revenue stream, profitable - is unacceptable in the business



    world. The only acceptable thing is growth and profit increase.


    Of course it is unacceptable.

    Where do you think the money to fund games(or any business in fact) comes from? From entities that make 'solid profits' or entities that show substantial profit growth?

    Growth is essential.


    Unsustainable

    That is the bad word that nobody likes to talk about.

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • DijonCyanideDijonCyanide Member UncommonPosts: 586
    Re-balancing in any online community driven game will always be needed with some being hindered & some receiving a boon.

    My potential problem with MMO companies is:  are they re-balancing for the well-fare of the game, & thus the players, or are they shifting game mechanics around to subtlety coerce spending by the player-base.  This can be accomplished by many maneuvers.

    For ESO, currently, the question would be are they neutering the other established classes to gently coerce the purchasing of the cool shiny Warden.  This practice certainly isn't new to MMOs nor will it go away.

    I have only been playing ESO for less than a month & the game mechanic that shocked me the most so far was a lack of universal market system.  Then I learned there is one that was implemented via Guilds in ESO.  I would recommend ESO, but I wouldn't recommend spending any real-money in it yet.  Partially because of my ignorance of all that is ESO & it seems to be  vast game.  Also, the real-money store items seem expensive as all get out.  Then there is the in-game economy too.  Buy the cheap version or maybe the Gold Edition then as long as you don't have to have the best or be the best enjoy the game which is good so far. 
  • MagikarpsGhostMagikarpsGhost Member RarePosts: 689
    been with em since beta and guess what these nerfs do not bother me, why? because i will adapt like any other person. Those who can not adapt or complain about what a company is doing to THEIR game honestly has not been playing mmos too long. I remember constant MASSIVE changes to skills in EQ. though not once did the forums fill with self entitled little brats complaining about how their build wont work. Well too bad make up a new build or if you are to lazy/stupid wait untill a streamer makes one.

    free 7 day sub and unlocks for swtor new accounts and 90+ day inactive subs click here to get it!

    Click here for trove referral, bonuses to both!

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342
    edited April 2017


    Torval said:
    But I'm talking about growth within a single game.


    Same thing.

    The rest of the post is a mixture of subjective opinion and ex-post conjectures.
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342

    Torval said:

    It is observational conjecture, anecdotal experience. It is relevant, just not able to carry an argument on its own.

    You
    dismiss some conclusions drawn on facts as well. Conceptually unlimited
    growth might have an argument. Pragmatically it doesn't exist and
    hasn't yet ever in the mmo industry. You're ignoring that while focusing
    on the possibility of the concept.

    Many mmo devs seem to do that
    as this corner of the industry still hasn't figured out a consistent
    way to sell their games. Businesses change revenue models over time and
    the lifecycle of their products. MMOs change revenue models like the
    wind blows. Why is that? Something isn't working and they've not figured
    out what does.


    Not at all.

    Devalued, balance, excellent B2P model, etc. all those are just your biased qualifiers.

    Essentially you are saying that company is trying to make as much money as they can which I do not disagree with but you seem to be creating some weird structure of pseudo-reasoning around it...

    /shrugs
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 9,000
    ESO are doing whatever they can to get your money has been no surprise. How many games put respecs and inventory space in their cash shops?

    Not surprising Warden would be op and that the expansion would cost as much as a separate game to purchase, then after a few months Warden will be nerted. I've found the best way to play nearly any MMO is to level several classes so when the nerf bat swings you can just play another alt until it gets buffed again. Rotating buffs and nerfs are nothing new in MMO's.

    I saw a player yesterday with 700 cp. So a nerf there isn't surprising either. More work for less return. The game is what it is, profit hungry over fun factor, which is why it's not worth a sub to me.

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342
    edited April 2017
    Torval said:
    They're overcharging for what they deliver like most every mmo.
    See, nothing more but personal bias qualifiers...
  • JudgeUKJudgeUK Member RarePosts: 1,676
    This resource management is just another 'feature' these reduced skill bar games introduce, somehow defining the management of crippled resources as player skill.

    It's not skill, it's just a chaining back mechanism meaning the characters have to do more running and jumping round while the meter fills up again. Then it's back to spamming the three or four effective abilities on the mini-skill bar.

    ESO has been one of the worst examples of this cheap mechanism, where the player ends up continually fighting the system, rather than the characters in-game.

    There's always been another way of controlling endless spamming, with variable skill cool downs. But they've disappeared, as these are 'action' games (as though full structure mmo's somehow weren't).

    So now the devs don't have to think too much about content difficulty, as they've got a ready made system adjuster. Turn the dial up for a bit, then turn it down as players get better geared.

    Players should not be fighting the system, the devs (no matter the game) should be focusing on more interesting and challenging content.
    ESO - Enemy System Online.
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