Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Shroud of the Avatar strikes again!!

124

Comments

  • LeFantomeLeFantome Member RarePosts: 691
    Akulas said:
    So, you would have to buy the asset that you made and sent to them? That's a rip off.

    It is a rip off.
    Fan boys are going to say otherwise. Of course.


    This game wont go anywhere after * release*

    In fact, I hope it fails.

    That would send a clear message to those greedy devs.

    image
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,435
    Mock outrage over the monetization practices of a game by people who never did, currently don't and never intend to play it. >:)

    So common yet always remains priceless at the same time. 

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • RawynRawyn Member UncommonPosts: 202
    edited March 2017
    black777 said:
    Akulas said:
    So, you would have to buy the asset that you made and sent to them? That's a rip off.

    It is a rip off.
    Fan boys are going to say otherwise. Of course.


    This game wont go anywhere after * release*

    In fact, I hope it fails.

    That would send a clear message to those greedy devs.
    I think it's already failed, just for some reason the devs and cheerleaders won't see that. They only got a few hundred people out of over 60k backers that will even play it, and their free trials didn't bring in what I'm sure they expected. This game released when they went persistent last July and they couldn't even keep people then. For some odd reason they thought the reason people weren't playing is because of the wipes. Instead of realizing people abandoned it because it sucks. Everything about it screams low budget, which isnt surprising since almost everything they use is from cheap unity assets.

    I know they arent working on a budget of a triple A game but for 11 million dollars it looks far worse than Project Gorgon which is working with fewer people, looks and plays better, far more interesting, and no where near even a quarter of a million budget and still doing a better job than these jokers at Portalarium. Sota looks and plays like they've maybe spent 50k on it. It's bloody terrible.
  • LeFantomeLeFantome Member RarePosts: 691
    Rawyn said:
    black777 said:
    Akulas said:
    So, you would have to buy the asset that you made and sent to them? That's a rip off.

    It is a rip off.
    Fan boys are going to say otherwise. Of course.


    This game wont go anywhere after * release*

    In fact, I hope it fails.

    That would send a clear message to those greedy devs.
    I think it's already failed, just for some reason the devs and cheerleaders won't see that. They only got a few hundred people out of over 60k backers that will even play it, and their free trials didn't bring in what I'm sure they expected. This game released when they went persistent last July and they couldn't even keep people then. For some odd reason they thought the reason people weren't playing is because of the wipes. Instead of realizing people abandoned it because it sucks. Everything about it screams low budget, which isnt surprising since almost everything they use is from cheap unity assets.

    I know they arent working on a budget of a triple A game but for 11 million dollars it looks far worse than Project Gorgon which is working with fewer people, looks and plays better, far more interesting, and no where near even a quarter of a million budget and still doing a better job than these jokers at Portalarium. Sota looks and plays like they've maybe spent 50k on it. It's bloody terrible.

    AMEN

    image
  • angus858angus858 Member UncommonPosts: 381

    Such rage over a game.  I don't understand why it is so difficult to accept that others like something which you don't.  SotA has problems, to be sure.  Some are fixable, some might not be (like the constant loading screens).  Bottom line is that I play it because I enjoy it.  Having spent a grand total of $45 on SotA, I got my money's worth months ago.  People can try the next free trial and see for themselves.

  • DakeruDakeru Member EpicPosts: 3,802
    angus858 said:

    Such rage over a game.  I don't understand why it is so difficult to accept that others like something which you don't.  SotA has problems, to be sure.  Some are fixable, some might not be (like the constant loading screens).  Bottom line is that I play it because I enjoy it.  Having spent a grand total of $45 on SotA, I got my money's worth months ago.  People can try the next free trial and see for themselves.

    Congratulations.
    You managed to completely omit the problem that was being discussed here.

    Only the hardest and most dedicated fans can channel the tunnel view like this.
    Harbinger of Fools
  • genaknoscgenaknosc Member UncommonPosts: 112
    angus858 said:

    Such rage over a game.  I don't understand why it is so difficult to accept that others like something which you don't.  SotA has problems, to be sure.  Some are fixable, some might not be (like the constant loading screens).  Bottom line is that I play it because I enjoy it.  Having spent a grand total of $45 on SotA, I got my money's worth months ago.  People can try the next free trial and see for themselves.


    Because these kinds of shady practices negatively affect the larger crowd-funded MMO industry, likely making many people more wary of donating to new projects.

    How exactly did they blow 10 million $ on this piece of trash? I'm sure much of the donated money was siphoned off into Richard Garriott's bank account for "consulting".
  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 8,914
    Dakeru said:
    angus858 said:

    Such rage over a game.  I don't understand why it is so difficult to accept that others like something which you don't.  SotA has problems, to be sure.  Some are fixable, some might not be (like the constant loading screens).  Bottom line is that I play it because I enjoy it.  Having spent a grand total of $45 on SotA, I got my money's worth months ago.  People can try the next free trial and see for themselves.

    Congratulations.
    You managed to completely omit the problem that was being discussed here.

    Only the hardest and most dedicated fans can channel the tunnel view like this.
    Thats because he does not see it as a problem , Nobody has to buy these things , thats what i dont get , i dont play or support SOTA i also dont care what any game sell cosmetic shit like this , WTF does anyone care really , Then dont buy it ,I can bag my dogs shit and put on table in front of my house for 50$ , and noone has to buy it , but why anyone would to spend there time and energy whining like a twat about it is pretty stupid .. Dont like it .. DOnt Buy It , Dont Support it , very simple but the nerdrage and crying over it in thread is pretty weak ..   Go do something fun with your time , why waste time and energy on something you have no interest in or care about ..
  • DakeruDakeru Member EpicPosts: 3,802
    Scorchien said:
    Dakeru said:
    angus858 said:

    Such rage over a game.  I don't understand why it is so difficult to accept that others like something which you don't.  SotA has problems, to be sure.  Some are fixable, some might not be (like the constant loading screens).  Bottom line is that I play it because I enjoy it.  Having spent a grand total of $45 on SotA, I got my money's worth months ago.  People can try the next free trial and see for themselves.

    Congratulations.
    You managed to completely omit the problem that was being discussed here.

    Only the hardest and most dedicated fans can channel the tunnel view like this.
    Thats because he does not see it as a problem , Nobody has to buy these things , thats what i dont get , i dont play or support SOTA i also dont care what any game sell cosmetic shit like this , WTF does anyone care really , Then dont buy it ,I can bag my dogs shit and put on table in front of my house for 50$ , and noone has to buy it , but why anyone would to spend there time and energy whining like a twat about it is pretty stupid .. Dont like it .. DOnt Buy It , Dont Support it , very simple but the nerdrage and crying over it in thread is pretty weak ..   Go do something fun with your time , why waste time and energy on something you have no interest in or care about ..
    The problem is that they aren't selling their own work.
    They are selling the work of an artist who gave away his work so people can enjoy it.

    And THEN this company comes along and charges 50$ for something that was meant to be free.

    That is shady and outright disgusting and deserves to be pointed out.
    Harbinger of Fools
  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 8,914
    edited March 2017
    Dakeru said:
    Scorchien said:
    Dakeru said:
    angus858 said:

    Such rage over a game.  I don't understand why it is so difficult to accept that others like something which you don't.  SotA has problems, to be sure.  Some are fixable, some might not be (like the constant loading screens).  Bottom line is that I play it because I enjoy it.  Having spent a grand total of $45 on SotA, I got my money's worth months ago.  People can try the next free trial and see for themselves.

    Congratulations.
    You managed to completely omit the problem that was being discussed here.

    Only the hardest and most dedicated fans can channel the tunnel view like this.
    Thats because he does not see it as a problem , Nobody has to buy these things , thats what i dont get , i dont play or support SOTA i also dont care what any game sell cosmetic shit like this , WTF does anyone care really , Then dont buy it ,I can bag my dogs shit and put on table in front of my house for 50$ , and noone has to buy it , but why anyone would to spend there time and energy whining like a twat about it is pretty stupid .. Dont like it .. DOnt Buy It , Dont Support it , very simple but the nerdrage and crying over it in thread is pretty weak ..   Go do something fun with your time , why waste time and energy on something you have no interest in or care about ..
    The problem is that they aren't selling their own work.
    They are selling the work of an artist who gave away his work so people can enjoy it.

    And THEN this company comes along and charges 50$ for something that was meant to be free.

    That is shady and outright disgusting and deserves to be pointed out.
    My dogs turd isnt my own work either , but once i posses it i can put a price on it , If anyone is stupid enough to buy it .. Good for me ..

      And there is nothing shady about this , they have an item they put a price on it ,( to have it in there game) , you have a choice to buy or not to buy .. Very Simple .. Very Transparent ..

     Where in Unity does it say , That this item is meant to be free in SOTA ... it doesnt , They have access to it , they posses it, they can sell it to consmuers to have it in there gameworld ..
  • DakeruDakeru Member EpicPosts: 3,802
    Scorchien said:
    Dakeru said:
    Scorchien said:
    Dakeru said:
    angus858 said:

    Such rage over a game.  I don't understand why it is so difficult to accept that others like something which you don't.  SotA has problems, to be sure.  Some are fixable, some might not be (like the constant loading screens).  Bottom line is that I play it because I enjoy it.  Having spent a grand total of $45 on SotA, I got my money's worth months ago.  People can try the next free trial and see for themselves.

    Congratulations.
    You managed to completely omit the problem that was being discussed here.

    Only the hardest and most dedicated fans can channel the tunnel view like this.
    Thats because he does not see it as a problem , Nobody has to buy these things , thats what i dont get , i dont play or support SOTA i also dont care what any game sell cosmetic shit like this , WTF does anyone care really , Then dont buy it ,I can bag my dogs shit and put on table in front of my house for 50$ , and noone has to buy it , but why anyone would to spend there time and energy whining like a twat about it is pretty stupid .. Dont like it .. DOnt Buy It , Dont Support it , very simple but the nerdrage and crying over it in thread is pretty weak ..   Go do something fun with your time , why waste time and energy on something you have no interest in or care about ..
    The problem is that they aren't selling their own work.
    They are selling the work of an artist who gave away his work so people can enjoy it.

    And THEN this company comes along and charges 50$ for something that was meant to be free.

    That is shady and outright disgusting and deserves to be pointed out.
    My dogs turd isnt my own work either , but once i posses it i can put a price on it , If anyone is stupid enough to buy it .. Good for me ..

      And there is nothing shady about this , they have an item they put a price on it ,( to have it in there game) , you have a choice to buy or not to buy .. Very Simple .. Very Transparent ..

     Where in Unity does it say , That this item is meant to be free in SOTA ... it doesnt , They access they posses it they can sell it to comsmuers to have it in there gameworld ..
    Ok you made very clear that you don't care.

    I however want to point out that this is a disgusting business practice and warn about it before it becomes common and spreads from MMO to MMO like a disease.
    Harbinger of Fools
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 19,332
    Yeah actually it is NOT simple and easy,there are laws to follow and just a matter if things get reported.

    You cannot misrepresent your product nor can you mislead consumers.You also cannot misrepresent or mislead utilizing others to do your bidding for you.

    Usually from what i have seen is the penalty depends on how many people involved and the extent of misleading and misrepresenting.If you hired 50 people and websites to lie or mislead/misrepresent on your behalf,it would be a stiff penalty.

    There is no such thing as "have an item,put a price on it and sell it".
    There are also copyrights involve,licensing,contract agreements etc etc.

    Then we have what we call exploitation.Proving it would likely not work out of the gate,however if for example you hooked gamer's in long term via continuous spending then throw an enormous price tag at them that an addicted player would jump at it,then exploitation could be proved.It is similar to why we have laws on drinking,once a consumer is considered visually to be intoxicated you are bound by law o stop serving that customer and to NOT exploit their drunken state to keep selling them booze.

    It is also why casinos were outlawed in Canada for so long,they id not want casino to exploit people that are prone to addiction because of the many problems it would cause on families and children.Of course we know how that ended up,money and greed and lobbyists always get their way.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 8,914
    Wizardry said:
    Yeah actually it is NOT simple and easy,there are laws to follow and just a matter if things get reported.

    You cannot misrepresent your product nor can you mislead consumers.You also cannot misrepresent or mislead utilizing others to do your bidding for you.

    Usually from what i have seen is the penalty depends on how many people involved and the extent of misleading and misrepresenting.If you hired 50 people and websites to lie or mislead/misrepresent on your behalf,it would be a stiff penalty.

    There is no such thing as "have an item,put a price on it and sell it".
    There are also copyrights involve,licensing,contract agreements etc etc.

    Then we have what we call exploitation.Proving it would likely not work out of the gate,however if for example you hooked gamer's in long term via continuous spending then throw an enormous price tag at them that an addicted player would jump at it,then exploitation could be proved.It is similar to why we have laws on drinking,once a consumer is considered visually to be intoxicated you are bound by law o stop serving that customer and to NOT exploit their drunken state to keep selling them booze.

    It is also why casinos were outlawed in Canada for so long,they id not want casino to exploit people that are prone to addiction because of the many problems it would cause on families and children.Of course we know how that ended up,money and greed and lobbyists always get their way.
    clueless and misguided as always , you never fail to fail ............. They have every right to sell that asset , you are buying the right to place it in there game world .....
  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    edited March 2017
    Dakeru said:
    The problem is that they aren't selling their own work.
    They are selling the work of an artist who gave away his work so people can enjoy it.

    And THEN this company comes along and charges 50$ for something that was meant to be free.

    That is shady and outright disgusting and deserves to be pointed out.
    Say what you will about size of company, but this is common practice with asset based engines like this, plenty of people make these things for free knowing some companies may monetize it. Most of the commercial products from RPGmaker make use of free community based assets; be they sprites, scripts for functionality etc.. ALl they typical ask for is some type of credit, some don't even care about that. Any artist that puts assets out should know this, I highly doubt very many are not aware someone may monetize their work. AT least those releasing things regularly.

    As Torval said it's advertising, but it's far more than that. Most of these folks are amateurs, the main goal is people using your things, especially someone as high profile as RG in a commercial product. You likely wouldn't even know about this guy's assets if it weren't for this happening... 
    Post edited by Distopia on

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • DakeruDakeru Member EpicPosts: 3,802
    Distopia said:

    As Torval said it's advertising, but it's far more than that. Most of these folks are amateurs, the main goal is people using your things, especially someone as high profile as RG in a commercial product. You likely wouldn't even know about this guy's assets if it weren't for this happening... 
    Advertising...
    I only know "this guy" cause someone found the original statue on the unity asset store.

    They didn't give him any credit.
    https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/?page_id=9085#tab-specials
    Harbinger of Fools
  • LeFantomeLeFantome Member RarePosts: 691
    That's my point.
    Getting something FREE and selling it for $50 to the people who backed your game is really shady.
    Instead of saying thank you for your trust.. They just want to fked the buyers , really deep in their $$$.

    So,how can you trust a them?
    People are not even sure if they will be able to make 5 chapter.  The game is so bad, the devs , greedy as hell and their way of marketing the game ?  Horrible.   

    This game will end up in the trash. 

    image
  • cyclonite51cyclonite51 Member UncommonPosts: 44
    It is 100% greed.

    Their vision was never to create some kind of Ultima Online 2 or an impressive/innovative/creative MMO, it was to whip together a game on a budget and save their company.

    The unity engine is garbage for open 3d environments, it looks bad, it runs bad. It's cheap and that is why they went with it.

    SOTA is a failure and a sad one at that. You are better off just forgetting about it ever existing. Whatever greatness created Ultima Online isn't part of SOTA.

  • LeFantomeLeFantome Member RarePosts: 691
    It is 100% greed.

    Their vision was never to create some kind of Ultima Online 2 or an impressive/innovative/creative MMO, it was to whip together a game on a budget and save their company.

    The unity engine is garbage for open 3d environments, it looks bad, it runs bad. It's cheap and that is why they went with it.

    SOTA is a failure and a sad one at that. You are better off just forgetting about it ever existing. Whatever greatness created Ultima Online isn't part of SOTA.


    The game is not even done and we can try the game for free. How funny is that, huh.
    However, they are not even able to raise the number of their fans base.
    I can't wait to see what is going to happen with their future expansions.. lol.

    The game is a failure.

    100% agreed.

    image
  • YashaXYashaX Member EpicPosts: 3,098
    Torval said:
    YashaX said:
    Torval said:
    So they're reselling indie artists' assets in their game, supporting the artist, providing more options for players, and saving on labor costs so I don't see this is as a bad thing at all. Why do you people hate indie artists?
    The asset was acquired for free: that is not supporting indie artists. If they had an iota of integrity they would have contacted the artist and asked them to make some assets for their game- either paying them for it upfront or giving them a percentage of sales from the asset store.

    What they did (as far as I can tell from the OP) was to exploit the artist by reselling something the artist had provided for free in goodwill.
    Please spare me your moral outrage and projections about "good will". It's an asset store. That is the purpose for its existence. If the artists wanted to get paid, they would charge. For whatever reasons they didn't. If they're banking on donations they should rethink their business model.

    It works like this in the real world; if you can get something for free or cheap and resell it, within licenses laws and regulations, then clever you for making a buck.

    One big reason artists could have for offering free assets is that having them used in production is great advertising and something to be put on your resume/cv/linkedin/business partner page. Another could be for the same reasons software companies offer free versions of their programs and services. It's advertising at the very least and an open door for sales.

    The entire purpose of those assets being offered there is to use in games. How each studio or dev team chooses to sell their software is up to them within the bounds of licensing agreements.


    It is perceived like this among sane people: using free Unity assets in your game is cheap; reselling them is a scam.

    Millions of dollars in crowdfunding and they are using and reselling free assets in their game? A cheap scam. They and anyone who defends this kind of exploitation should be ashamed. Just as bad if not worse than a unity asset flip game.
    ....
  • RawynRawyn Member UncommonPosts: 202
    These Jokers must be getting really desperate again for money. After they already had a begathon for March, they're having another in May. Rofl, can these guys not manage money? Every 2 months now? Good Lord these guys are greedy bastards. What few backers they got left have been milked to death already, greedy devs and have no shame lol. 
  • LeFantomeLeFantome Member RarePosts: 691
    edited April 2017
    Rawyn said:
    These Jokers must be getting really desperate again for money. After they already had a begathon for March, they're having another in May. Rofl, can these guys not manage money? Every 2 months now? Good Lord these guys are greedy bastards. What few backers they got left have been milked to death already, greedy devs and have no shame lol. 

    In May.. Rofl!!
    Dude those devs are really dumb.
    I can't wait for the release , just to see their number of players. And then to go free to play with their cash shop.
    The whole game is a joke.

    image
  • postlarvalpostlarval Member EpicPosts: 2,003
    black777 said:
    Rawyn said:
    These Jokers must be getting really desperate again for money. After they already had a begathon for March, they're having another in May. Rofl, can these guys not manage money? Every 2 months now? Good Lord these guys are greedy bastards. What few backers they got left have been milked to death already, greedy devs and have no shame lol. 

    In May.. Rofl!!
    Dude those devs are really dumb.
    I can't wait for the release , just to see their number of players. And then to go free to play with their cash shop.
    The whole game is a joke.
    Even the backers know it. From their own forums:

    "This game needs people playing. Bad. Right now it's pretty much the same 100 people selling things back and forth to one another."

    https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/god-i-hate-dead-vendors.85684/page-2#post-788231

    ______________________________________________________________________
    ~~ postlarval ~~

  • RawynRawyn Member UncommonPosts: 202
    so beyond the selling a horse model statue, games like these are ran on very shaky business foundations and we've yet to see one of them succeed, i guarantee you most will not be functioning in 5 years
    Pretty much. When you find out how this one was started it makes it even worse. These guys were months from having to shut down the business because they failed at creating app games and they couldn't get more money from investors. So they threw some cheap unity assets together to get a million funding, which by the way Richard admits wasn't enough to finish the game, just enough to get them out of their "pickle" he calls it. Psst, they continue to do this, still duct taping cheap assets together and doing a piss poor job at it. 4 years now and It still looks like a crappy demo you'd put together to try and get kick-started with. These guys are failed app devs and washed up PS1 programmer that are milking nostalgia of Ultimas and UO players. 

    This game failed last July, out of over 60 k backers they only have a couple hundred left playing still. Free to play with subscription option coming soon, you can count on it. Not many will buy this piece of crap after playing the free trial so port will get greedy and desperate lol.


  • LeFantomeLeFantome Member RarePosts: 691
    Rawyn said:
    so beyond the selling a horse model statue, games like these are ran on very shaky business foundations and we've yet to see one of them succeed, i guarantee you most will not be functioning in 5 years
    So they threw some cheap unity assets together to get a million funding, which by the way Richard admits wasn't enough to finish the game, just enough to get them out of their "pickle" he calls it. Psst, they continue to do this, still duct taping cheap assets together and doing a piss poor job at it. 4 years now and It still looks like a crappy demo you'd put together to try and get kick-started with. These guys are failed app devs and washed up PS1 programmer that are milking nostalgia of Ultimas and UO players. 




    Not only they failed but the famous Spears is just a stubborn dev who doesn't listen anyone else than himself.  He thinks he's good but in fact that guy is far from it.  Being closed to the community like he is, is a huge mistake . So, with someone like this in your team, you can only failed . Plus if you don't agree with him on steam, he'll ban you right away.

    image
  • RawynRawyn Member UncommonPosts: 202
    black777 said:
    Rawyn said:
    so beyond the selling a horse model statue, games like these are ran on very shaky business foundations and we've yet to see one of them succeed, i guarantee you most will not be functioning in 5 years
    So they threw some cheap unity assets together to get a million funding, which by the way Richard admits wasn't enough to finish the game, just enough to get them out of their "pickle" he calls it. Psst, they continue to do this, still duct taping cheap assets together and doing a piss poor job at it. 4 years now and It still looks like a crappy demo you'd put together to try and get kick-started with. These guys are failed app devs and washed up PS1 programmer that are milking nostalgia of Ultimas and UO players. 




    Not only they failed but the famous Spears is just a stubborn dev who doesn't listen anyone else than himself.  He thinks he's good but in fact that guy is far from it.  Being closed to the community like he is, is a huge mistake . So, with someone like this in your team, you can only failed . Plus if you don't agree with him on steam, he'll ban you right away.
    I'm not sure where Spears ego comes from, he's never worked on one successful game....not one. Dude seriously has no talent for making games especially the combat parts, and needs to go back to teaching college students that he can BS. I agree he shouldn't be around any forum interacting where potential customers can see his childishness. He and Starr should have been let go years ago, maybe the project could have been saved.
Sign In or Register to comment.