Why is slap shot so negative? Is he a shill for another game?
LOL
if you hung around here at all you'd know how silly that sounds. I treat all games skeptically, even those I play.
You even back half of the KSers you critique.
Yup... and that could even include AoC. I have the same red roses disease as everyone else. I just realize I have it and never get personally invested in the success of a video game.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
You are answering questions that were not posed. Multiple times you have written about the level of developer talent while disparaging other teams. I have no issue with the disparaging part but I am looking for you to back up your claim that you are basing your evaluation on ACTIONS. So please do share what actions have proven the talent level of the AoC devs.
Why is slap shot so negative? Is he a shill for another game?
LOL
if you hung around here at all you'd know how silly that sounds. I treat all games skeptically, even those I play.
You even back half of the KSers you critique.
Yup... and that could even include AoC. I have the same red roses disease as everyone else. I just realize I have it and never get personally invested in the success of a video game.
LMAO! Same!! I back things I want to see made and things that make sense. I won't throw good money after bad, but I'll toss something in the well if I feel confident they'll realize SOMETHING. I need it to make sense.
That being said, I do take a little bit of a different approach to critiques than you. I tend to favor the idea that people are generally good and I find you're more pessimistic, like everyone is always out to get you or screw someone. I'd say that's where the appearance of negativity comes from. I'm not a professional at all, though, so don't take that to the pharmacy or anything
I have seen lots of game companies promise dynamic questing and world. I have yet to see it happen. I hope it happens in my life time but I am starting to think we will only see illusions of. Play any given game long enough and you start to see past it. I hope, dont expect.
You should be skeptical,NONE of these devs are sitting in a boardroom saying "ok let's take our time and make a great game"just not happening.
Instead,how can we make this game quickly,how can we cut corners on this idea then we see a game like SC making everything modular so they can mass produce the same assets over and over.
I will say something that i do not even consider opinion but more so an expectation of a living world and NO game has it.An eco system,a living world SHOULD have it but takes too much work,same reason many devs don't have housing.
Even my favorite game which most know by now "FFXI" failes in not having water zones,Square for some reason does not like water zones in their mmo and i am not sure why other than saving cost/time on added work of zone properties and possible mapping problems. Point being,NONE of these devs are giving you their best effort and in most cases barely 50% effort.
Simply look back 5+ years ago,there was no such thing as this early access rubbish,now every single developer is doing it,releasing unfinished work,so the effort by devs is just atrocious.So not only poor effort but they are trying to scam as at the same time.Then we get websites like this one partnering with developers and telling how great these games are when in reality they are sellouts.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
lol all i can say is wait for the endgame, most games fail badly cause once everyone max their levels its endless daily grind, seriously why would anyone play a game like a job, imo at least when u work u get paid laugh game developers are clueless, bring back the fun and excitement into games and let gamers choose how their method to have fun and not endless grinding for gear....
lol all i can say is wait for the endgame, most games fail badly cause once everyone max their levels its endless daily grind, seriously why would anyone play a game like a job, imo at least when u work u get paid laugh game developers are clueless, bring back the fun and excitement into games and let gamers choose how their method to have fun and not endless grinding for gear....
You might want to start to read up about the game before writing that post of yours.
The greatness of this game is directly related to the greatness of whatever is on the unreal marketplace.
Partially.. but the META game greatness will be based around how many people you "recruit" so they can donate 15% of their purchases to you in cash. This could be the first game where people focus more on recruiting than whatever the game ends up being.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
The greatness of this game is directly related to the greatness of whatever is on the unreal marketplace.
Partially.. but the META game greatness will be based around how many people you "recruit" so they can donate 15% of their purchases to you in cash. This could be the first game where people focus more on recruiting than whatever the game ends up being.
I hear this for past 10 years way to early to tell really. Still don't really understand the cash shop and referring system yet as if its a real money game who have most money or friends wins? Edit: oh ok MLM now i understand this pyramid system and real money involved in this game through referring system no thanks(unless i still don't understand what it all means hehe)
Post edited by Classicstar on
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77 CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now)) MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB PSU:Corsair AX1200i OS:Windows 10 64bit
Not going to hold my breath. I know that much at least. People looking at every single MMO and thinking it's going to be the second coming of games, great man, keep at it. Chances are you're also going to be disappointed.
This what i have seen over past 13 years i have been here on mmorpg.
Second coming is first mmorpg(world)problem:P
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77 CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now)) MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB PSU:Corsair AX1200i OS:Windows 10 64bit
I would love to play a game with a truly dynamic world, but this is such a technical challenge, you really need a special piece of tech that you can build your game around, and its going to be hard for a small indie company to really put the resources needed for this. And as people have said ive been hearing about dynamic worlds for the past 10 years and no one has really pulled it off.
Now I am not saying this game can't be good but people should temper their expectations because the dynamism of this game is likely to fall short of people's expectations.
I would love to play a game with a truly dynamic world, but this is such a technical challenge, you really need a special piece of tech that you can build your game around, and its going to be hard for a small indie company to really put the resources needed for this. And as people have said ive been hearing about dynamic worlds for the past 10 years and no one has really pulled it off.
Now I am not saying this game can't be good but people should temper their expectations because the dynamism of this game is likely to fall short of people's expectations.
It is not as much of a technical but design challenge.
Once you get passed the catchy phrases such as 'truly dynamic world' and actually start working on schemes for actual game mechanics, you will find out is is way more difficult to come up with concepts that could somewhat stand to those phrases and still be fun on top.
That is all long before you may encounter any technical difficulties, which are mostly solvable.
I would love to play a game with a truly dynamic world, but this is such a technical challenge, you really need a special piece of tech that you can build your game around, and its going to be hard for a small indie company to really put the resources needed for this. And as people have said ive been hearing about dynamic worlds for the past 10 years and no one has really pulled it off.
Now I am not saying this game can't be good but people should temper their expectations because the dynamism of this game is likely to fall short of people's expectations.
It is not as much of a technical but design challenge.
Once you get passed the catchy phrases such as 'truly dynamic world' and actually start working on schemes for actual game mechanics, you will find out is is way more difficult to come up with concepts that could somewhat stand to those phrases and still be fun on top.
That is all long before you may encounter any technical difficulties, which are mostly solvable.
When I say technical difficulties it includes the way these mechanics tie together and how they get translated to the game world, you are correct it is very easy to sit down and make parallels with the real world and start thinking up concepts that affect your game world but that may not be fun.
But changing a world at a massive scale and making it look consistent is a fairly large technical problem, the more abstract you are the easier it is to achieve this, which is why you see a very high contrast between rich procedurally generated worlds in voxel engines ( minecraft etc... ) versus high poly generated worlds ( Rust etc... ) which are mostly based on heightmap generation and wholesale asset placedown which is noticeably a lot less rich. Add to this the complexities of networking and server-client architectures, AI/creatures with path finding and complex animations and you are in a world of trouble.
It is all possible with time, expertise and money, but it is not an easy task and one I dont expect a small game studio to just stumble upon a solution that is going to work, in my experience this is the kind of thing your studio puts a lot of effort into creating a piece of tech and you build a game around it, not start from a finished idea and work to retrofit it.
When I say technical difficulties it includes the way these mechanics tie together and how they get translated to the game world
Then it is not a technical problem, you are using wrong terms.
What you are describing is mostly design issue - technology is secondary and much easier to deal with.
It is a technical issue, everyone can sit down and design a changing world and what influences that changing world, hell people do it on these forums all the time when they talk and hype other games based on their own wants, a lot of the MMOs I have seen developing over the last ten years have promised designs that look feasible and would work for changing worlds but it never makes it into an actual product, because actually implementing these complex systems is hard from a technical point of view.
I can write you a design right now on a napkin of a changing world with seasons and atmospheric pressures and migrating mobs with behaviours completely affected by what a player does to the environment and flora that changes based on bee polination patterns. Actually getting a system that works in game is not an easy problem to solve for a large world networked game on a budget that isnt astronomical.
Edit: Whether we agree or not is irrelevant at the end of the day, no MMO has implemented anything close to a dynamic world, EQ Next was the closest to that promise with Landmark essentially the core tech that was going to power a changing world of EQ Next and even that didnt manage to deliver on anything, what chance has an indie team with a fraction of the funding. They might deliver something cool but it wont be a dynamic world.
The mmo industry really ought to learn from the non-MMO space early access type of games, where the scope is much more reduced to actually fit something that is achieveable and deliverable by a small team but that focuses on delivering that one nugget of gameplay that people want, and then work iteratively with the community to evolve the product. Instead we have a whole genre that is still stuck on trying to deceive their customers with grandiose promises that always fall short of expectation.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Comments
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
If Tinkerbell was looking for me to save her all I can say is the world will have one less fairy.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Just in case you missed this. Truly curious about these accomplishments.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
LMAO! Same!! I back things I want to see made and things that make sense. I won't throw good money after bad, but I'll toss something in the well if I feel confident they'll realize SOMETHING. I need it to make sense.
That being said, I do take a little bit of a different approach to critiques than you. I tend to favor the idea that people are generally good and I find you're more pessimistic, like everyone is always out to get you or screw someone. I'd say that's where the appearance of negativity comes from. I'm not a professional at all, though, so don't take that to the pharmacy or anything
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
Instead,how can we make this game quickly,how can we cut corners on this idea then we see a game like SC making everything modular so they can mass produce the same assets over and over.
I will say something that i do not even consider opinion but more so an expectation of a living world and NO game has it.An eco system,a living world SHOULD have it but takes too much work,same reason many devs don't have housing.
Even my favorite game which most know by now "FFXI" failes in not having water zones,Square for some reason does not like water zones in their mmo and i am not sure why other than saving cost/time on added work of zone properties and possible mapping problems.
Point being,NONE of these devs are giving you their best effort and in most cases barely 50% effort.
Simply look back 5+ years ago,there was no such thing as this early access rubbish,now every single developer is doing it,releasing unfinished work,so the effort by devs is just atrocious.So not only poor effort but they are trying to scam as at the same time.Then we get websites like this one partnering with developers and telling how great these games are when in reality they are sellouts.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Edit: oh ok MLM now i understand this pyramid system and real money involved in this game through referring system no thanks(unless i still don't understand what it all means hehe)
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77
CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k
GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now))
MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB
PSU:Corsair AX1200i
OS:Windows 10 64bit
Second coming is first mmorpg(world)problem:P
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77
CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k
GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now))
MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB
PSU:Corsair AX1200i
OS:Windows 10 64bit
Now I am not saying this game can't be good but people should temper their expectations because the dynamism of this game is likely to fall short of people's expectations.
It is not as much of a technical but design challenge.
Once you get passed the catchy phrases such as 'truly dynamic world' and actually start working on schemes for actual game mechanics, you will find out is is way more difficult to come up with concepts that could somewhat stand to those phrases and still be fun on top.
That is all long before you may encounter any technical difficulties, which are mostly solvable.
When I say technical difficulties it includes the way these mechanics tie together and how they get translated to the game world, you are correct it is very easy to sit down and make parallels with the real world and start thinking up concepts that affect your game world but that may not be fun.
But changing a world at a massive scale and making it look consistent is a fairly large technical problem, the more abstract you are the easier it is to achieve this, which is why you see a very high contrast between rich procedurally generated worlds in voxel engines ( minecraft etc... ) versus high poly generated worlds ( Rust etc... ) which are mostly based on heightmap generation and wholesale asset placedown which is noticeably a lot less rich.
Add to this the complexities of networking and server-client architectures, AI/creatures with path finding and complex animations and you are in a world of trouble.
It is all possible with time, expertise and money, but it is not an easy task and one I dont expect a small game studio to just stumble upon a solution that is going to work, in my experience this is the kind of thing your studio puts a lot of effort into creating a piece of tech and you build a game around it, not start from a finished idea and work to retrofit it.
Then it is not a technical problem, you are using wrong terms.
What you are describing is mostly design issue - technology is secondary and much easier to deal with.
It is a technical issue, everyone can sit down and design a changing world and what influences that changing world, hell people do it on these forums all the time when they talk and hype other games based on their own wants, a lot of the MMOs I have seen developing over the last ten years have promised designs that look feasible and would work for changing worlds but it never makes it into an actual product, because actually implementing these complex systems is hard from a technical point of view.
I can write you a design right now on a napkin of a changing world with seasons and atmospheric pressures and migrating mobs with behaviours completely affected by what a player does to the environment and flora that changes based on bee polination patterns. Actually getting a system that works in game is not an easy problem to solve for a large world networked game on a budget that isnt astronomical.
Edit: Whether we agree or not is irrelevant at the end of the day, no MMO has implemented anything close to a dynamic world, EQ Next was the closest to that promise with Landmark essentially the core tech that was going to power a changing world of EQ Next and even that didnt manage to deliver on anything, what chance has an indie team with a fraction of the funding. They might deliver something cool but it wont be a dynamic world.
The mmo industry really ought to learn from the non-MMO space early access type of games, where the scope is much more reduced to actually fit something that is achieveable and deliverable by a small team but that focuses on delivering that one nugget of gameplay that people want, and then work iteratively with the community to evolve the product. Instead we have a whole genre that is still stuck on trying to deceive their customers with grandiose promises that always fall short of expectation.
It is not a matter of agreement....but you are right, it is irrelevant since you do not care what others say or wheter you make any sense at all...
Whew....pot meet kettle. Here, you can borrow my mirror.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Loads of AoC info here
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Ref]
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[Mon/Wed/Fri 3pm PDT]
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Interview w/ Steven Sharif
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News]
DeathsProxy [AoC
Info]
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https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMXAB4iRjRWFxID-u0ildVQ/videos
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