Star Citizen - Valentines Day Free Fly Event (with multi-crew ship)

rpmcmurphy · February 2017

adamlotus75 said:

Just a quick note to point out that many players bought ED before it hit steam and are still playing the standalone version... me for example. The only way to buy it for a long time was the standalone version.

Quite so, there were something like 400,000 sales via their own store/kickstarter before the game even launched on Steam. I'd imagine the numbers have increased quite a bit over the last 2 years.
Then you have the XBox, some on Macs and soon there will be the PS4.

Erillion · February 2017

rpmcmurphy said:

adamlotus75 said:

Just a quick note to point out that many players bought ED before it hit steam and are still playing the standalone version... me for example. The only way to buy it for a long time was the standalone version.

Quite so, there were something like 400,000 sales via their own store/kickstarter before the game even launched on Steam. I'd imagine the numbers have increased quite a bit over the last 2 years.
Then you have the XBox, some on Macs and soon there will be the PS4.

The number of ED units sold is mentioned in their publically available Stock Market report. A caveat: they seem to include the number of "Horizon" expansions sold in that number (because Horizon includes the basic game). However, hundreds of thousands of owners of the basic game were only interested in the expansion - buying the basic game AGAIN was criticized. It also artificially inflates the number of base games sold.

Taking the Steamspy numbers and doubling it will give a good rough estimate of the number of people actively playing IMHO.

Numbers were down in my experience, but the appearance of the aliens has increased player participation again.

For Valentine I wish they would make the commander creator available online via browser - with an import function. I know players that can spend many days creating and naming their avatars.

But i will enjoy the SC Free Fly event instead.

Have fun

Kefo · February 2017

Erillion said:

@Kefo

>>>>>>>>>>>>
1) I asked how long they need to keep fundraising in order to get enough money to finish the game.

--> And I answer AGAIN: As long as it takes to finish the game.

2) You worded it like it was a surefire thing but since your statement is fine now lets move on shall we?

--> My pleasure.

4) so still I don't know after you cut out the bullshit. Gotcha lol.

--> Too bad that you still do not know. Most others do.

5) This is what I said and was the question (although I forgot the question mark) "
So a game that lets you try on clothes, play a mediocre fps with 2? Levels, and fly around a single map to shoot at each other is larger then most games."
The part you answered I actually don't care about since I don't care how many games you have played.

--> So one has to guess what is a question and what is not a question? Because you do forget question marks ? (See what I did there ?) One has to answer questions you did not put forward ? One has to be a telepath ?

7) Guinness book of records is not proof of Sandi having a marketing background before she was hired. Since you haven't produced anything and are throw out horrible arguments I'll just assume you agree it was nepotism in this case.

--> You assume too much.

--> Chris Roberts obviously knew she was good at marketing. And the success confirms both that he was right his in assumption and that she is good at marketing. 143 M$ say so.

10) No you kinda went on a long winded passive aggressive rant about Derek Smart for some odd reason which makes me think what I said about you calling him "the smarty" is right.

--> The Smarty using Google Alert is not a rant. That is a well known fact and has been said by himself in the past. That is why it even has become an insider joke that you only have to say his name three times and he appears. And yes, often it DOES work ;-)

11) Are you talking about No Man's Sky? If you are congrats you listed 1 very recent game that actually did it worse then Star Citizen....pat on the back. I suppose if you're neck deep in shit you can be glad you aren't the guy whos shoulders you're standing on.

--> There was absolutely no reference to NMS whatsoever in my responses. So the answer is: No. I wonder whatever made you think about NMS in that context.

12) already told you not combing through all the CR videos as I would rather take a drill bit to my head. The only thing that comes to mind is (procedural?) birds.

--> Its called procedurally generated planets (rock, flora, fauna etc.). That includes birds. 41 M$ stretch goal. Nothing knew.

--> OK ... so when you have no evidence whatsoever, you say that you do not plan to look for evidence, but you are still right. Because .... you said so.

13) cant believe I have to get your own quote because you can't remember what you said in its entirety

**quote**

You're inferring out of all the SC backers there is more than 1 person who thinks this looks bad. There are people who aren't backers that think this look bad hence the theres more then 2 million people.

--> What you THINK i am inferring so far has NEVER been what i said and/or inferred. What you think seems to have little to do with what anything i do/say/think/infer. But hey ... your arguments are not based on evidence (see 12. above) or facts .. so that may be one of the reasons.

--> And my personal opinion: The ones that matter are the people that are the backers who make this game possible. If 2+ people out of 8 billion think this looks bad - especially if these 2+ people are not backers - this concerns me about as much as a ricebag toppling over in China. If almost 2 million OTHER people are with me supporting this project - THOSE are the people that i consider important.

Please at least try to get the full quotes in there instead of omitting things to try and make your argument work. And do pay attention to what I write.

--> I do. Its not easy. See (12).

It will save me having to correct your mistakes later on.

--> My "mistakes" are called evidence, which - as we know now - you have no inclination to disprove with any evidence, facts or sources of your own because ..... . Because! Right ? (See what I did there?)

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

--> Have fun

I seem to be getting to you as your replies are getting a little more aggressive. And you are putting even less effort into trying to defend the original argument and instead twist it to whatever this is lol.

1) as long as it takes. Well then CR has no incentive to stop stringing along backers. He said a certain amount would be good to make the game, then changed it after scope creep, then changed it again even though scope creep was supposed to be gone and now says they don't have enough money to finish both games.

4) I'm not sure you know either. That quote is 7 months old and it makes no mention of people who own multiple accounts or those who have gotten refunds. The easiest answer is you don't know. I'm not sure why you keeping fighting tooth and nail over this.

5) I admitted my mistake and told you what the actual question was. You still haven't answered it.

7) That's great that CR thinks his wife would be great at marketing. Most companies hire people based on past experience or schooling. Since there is no past experience its safe to assume CR hired her because they are married.

10) Derek Smart
Derek Smart
Derek Smart
Holy shit the world is going to end now. Seriously you can say his name and who cares if he shows up? I swear its like he's Voldemort to you and you cant say his name because you are terrified of him.

11) I know there was no reference to NMS except a very cryptic sentence. Which is why I asked for clarity.

12) Eh since I can't be assed to look for anything then I'll drop the point. No point arguing something I don't want to find evidence for.

13) It might not bother you any but it sure seems to me like its bothering CIG. Also you have no way of knowing if there are 2 million people standing with you. You can go on the CIG forums, reddit, here and see backers who are getting grumpy with things CIG is doing. I'd be more worried about the backers who are getting refunds as they are the ones causing the most damage.

You still haven't provided evidence that Sandi was hired based on her working in the industry prior to CIG to disprove the nepotism claim.

I've admitted my mistakes on here in my postings and yet you still can't be bothered to answer some of my questions even after I corrected myself. I'll gladly take any evidence you post but so far all I see are opinions laced with just enough outdated facts to try and come off as completely credible.

rpmcmurphy · February 2017

Erillion said:

The number of ED units sold is mentioned in their publically available Stock Market report. A caveat: they seem to include the number of "Horizon" expansions sold in that number (because Horizon includes the basic game). However, hundreds of thousands of owners of the basic game were only interested in the expansion - buying the basic game AGAIN was criticized. It also artificially inflates the number of base games sold.

Taking the Steamspy numbers and doubling it will give a good rough estimate of the number of people actively playing IMHO.

Numbers were down in my experience, but the appearance of the aliens has increased player participation again.

For Valentine I wish they would make the commander creator available online via browser - with an import function. I know players that can spend many days creating and naming their avatars.

But i will enjoy the SC Free Fly event instead.

Have fun

Sure but I'm just making a point that Frontier's store handles/has handled a large number of sales by itself so playerbase numbers should be adjusted accordingly.

Horizons doesn't include the base game anymore, that got changed quite some time ago. You now buy the base game and the expansion separately or you buy the Commander's Edition which contains both + some cosmetic stuff.
I'm not sure it does inflate the numbers because they call them franchise units, they're not separating the amount of base game sales from expansion sales. Also padding the numbers like that would be misleading their shareholders whcih is illegal in the UK, so somehow I doubt they're doing that.

People who moaned about buying the base game again were nothing but idiots incapable of critical thinking. If you didn't already own the base game you paid $60, if you did you paid $45, therefore the base game was worth $15 at that point and that was the real contention for these idiots.
They felt that because the new guys were getting the base game for $15 when they had paid $60 a year earlier meant that they had been ripped off, totally ignoring the fact that every game reduces in price over time and that they had also been able to play the game for the whole year. Best example of entitled bullcrap I'd heard in a long time.

Compare the above to something like The Witcher 3, people would have bought the base game and its 2 expansions for ~£50 or so, they would look like right plonkers if they started moaning about the G0TY version only costing £35 a year later

I agree that's a reasonable way to estimate the playerbase.

Yeah it would be nice to try out the options but seeing the commander creator hasn't entered beta yet I think they would be cautious about giving people access, it would suck to spend ages on it and find the import function doesn't work correctly...

Erillion · February 2017

@Kefo

I seem to be getting to you as your replies are getting a little more aggressive.

--> Once again you construe something in your own special way. Is repeating the same answer trice "aggressive" to you?

And you are putting even less effort into trying to defend the original argument and instead twist it to whatever this is lol.

--> It is not easy to answer your questions that are no questions because you do not use question marks, but want your questions without question marks answered. I am still not a telepath.

1) as long as it takes. Well then CR has no incentive to stop stringing along backers. He said a certain amount would be good to make the game,

--> That was the game he was speaking about at the beginning of the crowdfunding campaign. NOT the much expanded game currently in development. But you already knew that. Chris Roberts has not given any money estimates of the total development cost for years.

then changed it after scope creep, then changed it again even though scope creep was supposed to be gone and now says they don't have enough money to finish both games.

--> He said that if funding suddenly ceased completely, they would use money from SQ42 sales for the development of the Persistent Universe. A theoretical example, as funding is coming at a nice pace and does not seem to slow down. In fact 2016 was the best year ever in the campaign.

4) I'm not sure you know either. That quote is 7 months old and it makes no mention of people who own multiple accounts or those who have gotten refunds. The easiest answer is you don't know. I'm not sure why you keeping fighting tooth and nail over this.

--> I know the magnitude of the number of paying backers. I do not need to know it down to the exact number. Around 50 % of 1.74 Million is good enough for me. Maybe not good enough for you.

5) I admitted my mistake and told you what the actual question was. You still haven't answered it.

---> Oh, I DID already answer it many posts upthread.

7) That's great that CR thinks his wife would be great at marketing. Most companies hire people based on past experience or schooling. Since there is no past experience its safe to assume CR hired her because they are married.

--> Most companies do not get 143 M$ via their marketing people either. Chris Roberts seems to have hired her because she is verifiably good in what she does.

10) Derek Smart
Derek Smart
Derek Smart
Holy shit the world is going to end now. Seriously you can say his name and who cares if he shows up? I swear its like he's Voldemort to you and you cant say his name because you are terrified of him.

--> Self declared Internet Warlords trigger laughter in my case, not fear ;-)

11) I know there was no reference to NMS except a very cryptic sentence. Which is why I asked for clarity.

--> You got your clarification. You are welcome.

12) Eh since I can't be assed to look for anything then I'll drop the point. No point arguing something I don't want to find evidence for.

--> Very well. Fine with me.

13) It might not bother you any but it sure seems to me like its bothering CIG.

--> I see no evidence that CIG is bothered. With 143 M$ funding (and growing) and 2016 being the best year ever ... why should they be bothered by some loudmouthed Internet trolls from the SA forums and their buddies?

Also you have no way of knowing if there are 2 million people standing with you.

--> I never claimed that all of 2 Million People are Standing with me.

--> https://robertsspaceindustries.com/funding-Goals

--> The majority of (currently) 1,743,465 People were interested enough to make an account on that Website and stay informed about that Project. Not 100 % of them will be absolutely happy - which is normal, because you cannot make 100 % People 100 % happy if their expectations are sometimes mutually exclusive.

You can go on the CIG forums, reddit, here and see backers who are getting grumpy with things CIG is doing.

--> And I see A LOT MORE backers being enthusiastic about the things CIG is doing than the number of backers that are grumpy.

I'd be more worried about the backers who are getting refunds as they are the ones causing the most damage.

--> I am not worried about them at all. Many are Grey marketeers cutting their losses. Any refunds are IMHO more than compensated by the tenthousands of new backers joining every month.

You still haven't provided evidence that Sandi was hired based on her working in the industry prior to CIG to disprove the nepotism claim.

--> I never claimed she was. I claimed that Chris Roberts hired her because he knew she is good at marketing. And 143 M$ say that this is true.

I've admitted my mistakes on here in my postings and yet you still can't be bothered to answer some of my questions even after I corrected myself.

--> It helps if you MAKE them into questions and use question marks. So I know that you want a question answered.

I'll gladly take any evidence you post

--> See links above (and hundreds of other links posted by me in this subforum over the last years).

but so far all I see are opinions laced with just enough outdated facts to try and come off as completely credible.

--> I give the newest facts that are available on any given subject. If you have newer facts that are better than my "outdated" Facts, feel free to post them here (and links to your sources).

--> Have fun

Kefo · February 2017

Erillion said:

@Kefo

I seem to be getting to you as your replies are getting a little more aggressive.

--> Once again you construe something in your own special way. Is repeating the same answer trice "aggressive" to you?

And you are putting even less effort into trying to defend the original argument and instead twist it to whatever this is lol.

--> It is not easy to answer your questions that are no questions because you do not use question marks, but want your questions without question marks answered. I am still not a telepath.

1) as long as it takes. Well then CR has no incentive to stop stringing along backers. He said a certain amount would be good to make the game,

--> That was the game he was speaking about at the beginning of the crowdfunding campaign. NOT the much expanded game currently in development. But you already knew that. Chris Roberts has not given any money estimates of the total development cost for years.

then changed it after scope creep, then changed it again even though scope creep was supposed to be gone and now says they don't have enough money to finish both games.

--> He said that if funding suddenly ceased completely, they would use money from SQ42 sales for the development of the Persistent Universe. A theoretical example, as funding is coming at a nice pace and does not seem to slow down. In fact 2016 was the best year ever in the campaign.

4) I'm not sure you know either. That quote is 7 months old and it makes no mention of people who own multiple accounts or those who have gotten refunds. The easiest answer is you don't know. I'm not sure why you keeping fighting tooth and nail over this.

--> I know the magnitude of the number of paying backers. I do not need to know it down to the exact number. Around 50 % of 1.74 Million is good enough for me. Maybe not good enough for you.

5) I admitted my mistake and told you what the actual question was. You still haven't answered it.

---> Oh, I DID already answer it many posts upthread.

7) That's great that CR thinks his wife would be great at marketing. Most companies hire people based on past experience or schooling. Since there is no past experience its safe to assume CR hired her because they are married.

--> Most companies do not get 143 M$ via their marketing people either. Chris Roberts seems to have hired her because she is verifiably good in what she does.

10) Derek Smart
Derek Smart
Derek Smart
Holy shit the world is going to end now. Seriously you can say his name and who cares if he shows up? I swear its like he's Voldemort to you and you cant say his name because you are terrified of him.

--> Self declared Internet Warlords trigger laughter in my case, not fear ;-)

11) I know there was no reference to NMS except a very cryptic sentence. Which is why I asked for clarity.

--> You got your clarification. You are welcome.

12) Eh since I can't be assed to look for anything then I'll drop the point. No point arguing something I don't want to find evidence for.

--> Very well. Fine with me.

13) It might not bother you any but it sure seems to me like its bothering CIG.

--> I see no evidence that CIG is bothered. With 143 M$ funding (and growing) and 2016 being the best year ever ... why should they be bothered by some loudmouthed Internet trolls from the SA forums and their buddies?

Also you have no way of knowing if there are 2 million people standing with you.

--> I never claimed that all of 2 Million People are Standing with me.

--> https://robertsspaceindustries.com/funding-Goals

--> The majority of (currently) 1,743,465 People were interested enough to make an account on that Website and stay informed about that Project. Not 100 % of them will be absolutely happy - which is normal, because you cannot make 100 % People 100 % happy if their expectations are sometimes mutually exclusive.

You can go on the CIG forums, reddit, here and see backers who are getting grumpy with things CIG is doing.

--> And I see A LOT MORE backers being enthusiastic about the things CIG is doing than the number of backers that are grumpy.

I'd be more worried about the backers who are getting refunds as they are the ones causing the most damage.

--> I am not worried about them at all. Many are Grey marketeers cutting their losses. Any refunds are IMHO more than compensated by the tenthousands of new backers joining every month.

You still haven't provided evidence that Sandi was hired based on her working in the industry prior to CIG to disprove the nepotism claim.

--> I never claimed she was. I claimed that Chris Roberts hired her because he knew she is good at marketing. And 143 M$ say that this is true.

I've admitted my mistakes on here in my postings and yet you still can't be bothered to answer some of my questions even after I corrected myself.

--> It helps if you MAKE them into questions and use question marks. So I know that you want a question answered.

I'll gladly take any evidence you post

--> See links above (and hundreds of other links posted by me in this subforum over the last years).

but so far all I see are opinions laced with just enough outdated facts to try and come off as completely credible.

--> I give the newest facts that are available on any given subject. If you have newer facts that are better than my "outdated" Facts, feel free to post them here (and links to your sources).

--> Have fun

Still no evidence to disprove the claim of nepotism I see and still using a mistake I admitted to and corrected in a later post to try and get out of answering my question

It's becoming painfully clear that you don't have the answer and are just resorting to passive aggressive attacks. Or demanding links from me when you don't even post one that would refute the claim of nepotism.

There isn't much point to continuing with you because it feels like I am repeating myself to try to get you to answer truthfully or at least admit you have no clue and you keep bringing up a mistake I made with punctuatation.

If you would like like to discuss like adults then feel free to post what I have asked for and I'll take that as you're ready to continue and drop the insults.

MaxBacon · February 2017

Kefo said:
Still no evidence to disprove the claim of nepotism

Neither the opposite was done side of arguing opinions as facts. --'

gg

CrazKanuk · February 2017

Kefo said:

Still no evidence to disprove the claim of nepotism I see and still using a mistake I admitted to and corrected in a later post to try and get out of answering my question

It's becoming painfully clear that you don't have the answer and are just resorting to passive aggressive attacks. Or demanding links from me when you don't even post one that would refute the claim of nepotism.

There isn't much point to continuing with you because it feels like I am repeating myself to try to get you to answer truthfully or at least admit you have no clue and you keep bringing up a mistake I made with punctuatation.

If you would like like to discuss like adults then feel free to post what I have asked for and I'll take that as you're ready to continue and drop the insults.

You are right, there isn't much point in continuing, because you've already said before that you're just here for the drama. Even if someone were to provide you with completely acceptable information, you wouldn't accept it because that's not your prerogative.

Erillion · February 2017

CrazKanuk said:

Kefo said:

Still no evidence to disprove the claim of nepotism I see and still using a mistake I admitted to and corrected in a later post to try and get out of answering my question

It's becoming painfully clear that you don't have the answer and are just resorting to passive aggressive attacks. Or demanding links from me when you don't even post one that would refute the claim of nepotism.

There isn't much point to continuing with you because it feels like I am repeating myself to try to get you to answer truthfully or at least admit you have no clue and you keep bringing up a mistake I made with punctuatation.

If you would like like to discuss like adults then feel free to post what I have asked for and I'll take that as you're ready to continue and drop the insults.

You are right, there isn't much point in continuing, because you've already said before that you're just here for the drama. Even if someone were to provide you with completely acceptable information, you wouldn't accept it because that's not your prerogative.

THAT !

But hey @Kefo ...

thank you for keeping the thread in the limelight of the MMORPG.com starting page ;-)

Have fun

Kefo · February 2017

CrazKanuk said:

Kefo said:

Still no evidence to disprove the claim of nepotism I see and still using a mistake I admitted to and corrected in a later post to try and get out of answering my question

It's becoming painfully clear that you don't have the answer and are just resorting to passive aggressive attacks. Or demanding links from me when you don't even post one that would refute the claim of nepotism.

There isn't much point to continuing with you because it feels like I am repeating myself to try to get you to answer truthfully or at least admit you have no clue and you keep bringing up a mistake I made with punctuatation.

If you would like like to discuss like adults then feel free to post what I have asked for and I'll take that as you're ready to continue and drop the insults.

You are right, there isn't much point in continuing, because you've already said before that you're just here for the drama. Even if someone were to provide you with completely acceptable information, you wouldn't accept it because that's not your prerogative.

I actually would. While I might be here for the drama cause it helps pass the time when I'm bored I do accept things and have thanked people in the past for pointing things out for me.

Kefo · February 2017

MaxBacon said:

Kefo said:
Still no evidence to disprove the claim of nepotism

Neither the opposite was done side of arguing opinions as facts. --'

gg

I made an argument for nepotism based on facts (preference given to family or friends when Sandi has no prior background in the field) and Erillion tried to use the Guinness book as proof which is rather laughable.

If he can produce something concrete then I'll happily change my tune.

@Erillion thanks for providing the laughs

dsmart · February 2017

Erillion said:

sgel said:

Erillion said:

--> Yes, the Alpha so far is tiny to what the complete Persistent Universe will be. But it is already larger and more complex than many fully launched games out there. And it has also less bugs than many fully launched games out ther ;-)

What do you mean by larger? Could you name a few games that are smaller than the SC alpha? Could you name some released games that have more bugs than the SC alpha?

>>> name a few games that are smaller than the SC Alpha >>>> About two thirds of the games on Steam are smaller than the SC Alpha in my opinion and my experience.
>>>>Released games that have more bugs than the SC Alpha ? >>> Well, "Battlecruiser 3000AD" comes to my mind ;-)

Have fun

I know you can't help yourself because defending the Star Citizen scam is a full-time job.

But comparing the bug-fest that is a $142 million tech demo, to an INDIE game from 1996 (FROM 21 YEARS AGO) is always good for a laugh.

You guys can't go a few posts without somehow dragging me or my games into your nonsense.

dsmart · February 2017

Erillion said:

@rpmcmurphy
For many of the things you mentioned there ARE known metrics (e.g. playtime, Login numbers, financial contributions etc.). So actually i DOES tell you if you want to know.
There are also public statements from dev team members on numbers. And other numbers have been verified by external sources (like Guiness Book of World Records team).

Have fun

That's rubbish. The only thing Guinness ever certified, was it being the largest crowd-funded game at the time. Nothing else.

The only metrics we gleam from public sources are the funding amounts. Which aren't even accurate seeing as they don't take refunds, loans, investors into account.

Citizens metrics. Unverified Rubbish

Fan metrics: Unverified Rubbish

Sales metrics: Unverified Rubbish

dsmart · February 2017

Erillion said:

sgel said:

Yeah, nice dig
Seriously.. name a few games that on release had less bugs than the SC alpha.

Also, you still haven't answered on what you mean by "larger".. do you mean the in-game playing area? Mechanics? Content? What?

>>>>Name a few games that on release had less bugs than the SC Alpha ?>>>>
--> Witcher 3 comes to mind, also Mass Effect (you asked for LESS bugs)

With "larger" i mean the scope of the game (space sim + FPS + economic simulation + sandbox + social Simulation + racing Simulation etc.) as well as the number of technical innovations. Even the limited playing space we see in the SC Alpha ("Crusader" area, Arccorp area, the racetrack etc.) is more than a lot of games offer.

Have fun

Name ONE technical innovation. Just ONE.

Kefo · February 2017

He who must not be named is here! Quickly hide your children before he devours their pure souls

Erillion · February 2017

dsmart said:

Erillion said:

sgel said:

Yeah, nice dig
Seriously.. name a few games that on release had less bugs than the SC alpha.

Also, you still haven't answered on what you mean by "larger".. do you mean the in-game playing area? Mechanics? Content? What?

>>>>Name a few games that on release had less bugs than the SC Alpha ?>>>>
--> Witcher 3 comes to mind, also Mass Effect (you asked for LESS bugs)

With "larger" i mean the scope of the game (space sim + FPS + economic simulation + sandbox + social Simulation + racing Simulation etc.) as well as the number of technical innovations. Even the limited playing space we see in the SC Alpha ("Crusader" area, Arccorp area, the racetrack etc.) is more than a lot of games offer.

Have fun

Name ONE technical innovation. Just ONE.

The combination of all these parts into one working whole sandbox game.

Something which you have chased for the last 21 years ... and failed. Repeatedly.

Have fun

PS:

@Kefo ... it worked ;-)

Sorry Smarty .. insider joke.

Talonsin · February 2017

Erillion said:

dsmart said:

Erillion said:

sgel said:

Yeah, nice dig
Seriously.. name a few games that on release had less bugs than the SC alpha.

Also, you still haven't answered on what you mean by "larger".. do you mean the in-game playing area? Mechanics? Content? What?

>>>>Name a few games that on release had less bugs than the SC Alpha ?>>>>
--> Witcher 3 comes to mind, also Mass Effect (you asked for LESS bugs)

With "larger" i mean the scope of the game (space sim + FPS + economic simulation + sandbox + social Simulation + racing Simulation etc.) as well as the number of technical innovations. Even the limited playing space we see in the SC Alpha ("Crusader" area, Arccorp area, the racetrack etc.) is more than a lot of games offer.

Have fun

Name ONE technical innovation. Just ONE.

The combination of all these parts into one working whole sandbox game.
Something which you have chased for the last 21 years ... and failed. Repeatedly.

Have games like Space Engineers and Emyprion not done these things? You can fly off a carrier, land on a planet and shoot things without any loading screens.

Erillion · February 2017

dsmart said:

Erillion said:

@rpmcmurphy
For many of the things you mentioned there ARE known metrics (e.g. playtime, Login numbers, financial contributions etc.). So actually i DOES tell you if you want to know.
There are also public statements from dev team members on numbers. And other numbers have been verified by external sources (like Guiness Book of World Records team).

Have fun

That's rubbish. The only thing Guinness ever certified, was it being the largest crowd-funded game at the time. Nothing else.

The only metrics we gleam from public sources are the funding amounts. Which aren't even accurate seeing as they don't take refunds, loans, investors into account.

Citizens metrics. Unverified Rubbish

Fan metrics: Unverified Rubbish

Sales metrics: Unverified Rubbish

You seem to have failed to check that its AGAIN in the Guiness Book of World Records.

With higher numbers.

You can make an account at the GBWR Website, log in and check the numbers yourself.

And according to the GBWR rules these numbers have to be verified. So CIGs numbers w.r.t. GBWR have been verified by an external Party.

Have fun

Talonsin · February 2017

Erillion said:

dsmart said:

Erillion said:

sgel said:

Yeah, nice dig
Seriously.. name a few games that on release had less bugs than the SC alpha.

Also, you still haven't answered on what you mean by "larger".. do you mean the in-game playing area? Mechanics? Content? What?

>>>>Name a few games that on release had less bugs than the SC Alpha ?>>>>
--> Witcher 3 comes to mind, also Mass Effect (you asked for LESS bugs)

With "larger" i mean the scope of the game (space sim + FPS + economic simulation + sandbox + social Simulation + racing Simulation etc.) as well as the number of technical innovations. Even the limited playing space we see in the SC Alpha ("Crusader" area, Arccorp area, the racetrack etc.) is more than a lot of games offer.

Have fun

Name ONE technical innovation. Just ONE.

The combination of all these parts into one working whole sandbox game.
Something which you have chased for the last 21 years ... and failed. Repeatedly.

I would also like to point out that there is no "working whole sandbox" game yet. At this point everything that CR has done has been done before. He is currently "working" on this innovation that you are touting, he has not actually "done" any of it yet.

CrazKanuk · February 2017

Kefo said:

CrazKanuk said:

Kefo said:

Still no evidence to disprove the claim of nepotism I see and still using a mistake I admitted to and corrected in a later post to try and get out of answering my question

It's becoming painfully clear that you don't have the answer and are just resorting to passive aggressive attacks. Or demanding links from me when you don't even post one that would refute the claim of nepotism.

There isn't much point to continuing with you because it feels like I am repeating myself to try to get you to answer truthfully or at least admit you have no clue and you keep bringing up a mistake I made with punctuatation.

If you would like like to discuss like adults then feel free to post what I have asked for and I'll take that as you're ready to continue and drop the insults.

You are right, there isn't much point in continuing, because you've already said before that you're just here for the drama. Even if someone were to provide you with completely acceptable information, you wouldn't accept it because that's not your prerogative.

I actually would. While I might be here for the drama cause it helps pass the time when I'm bored I do accept things and have thanked people in the past for pointing things out for me.

Hey, I'm fine with that, but it's when objectivity leaves the building that it just becomes bait (which much of your points are). Since we just reached 1, why don't you ask DS how long you should continue raising funds. He's been doing it longer than CR and his game is still in development, and has been for several years more than SC. Perfect example of how adding context to your argument actually creates perspective.

The difficulty with your post isn't that you ask questions, it's that you continually move goal posts and, additionally, provide no context for what "acceptable" is. Without that, any answer is in constant flux. This isn't just for you, though, it's a question for the larger gaming community and it's something that is problematic only because of crowdfunding. Additionally, it's only become problematic because of transparency. There are other similar games *cough cough* which don't provide such numbers, so you'd never know whether they're making a killing or whether they're drowning.

That being said, giving you the benefit of the doubt, long, multi-point posts are difficult to manage at the best of times, so it's entirely possible that the moving of goal posts is only a product of you clarifying your original question. To that end, you should be able to appreciate how some may feel fatigued after answering the same questions on a weekly basis for the past year and a half. Honestly, SC has had more patches in the past year and a half than the haters have had new, valid arguments.

EDIT: I will say that I don't know if this reached 1 organically or because @Erillion taunted, but I'll leave that up to others to decide.

That being said, Derek, the question was to list a released game to have more bugs than SC Alpha, so in that regard he's not wrong. However, AGAIN adding context, there are a plethora of games which have/had more bugs at release than what SC does right now. The question just attempts to put someone on the spot. The counter to that is there are, actually, no metrics published metrics to say which is buggier anyway. A game could have a major bug a launch which makes it appear to be buggier, when it actually has fewer defects per kloc than something else. So, yeah, the question and answer are both kind of baity.

Kefo · February 2017

Talonsin said:

Erillion said:

dsmart said:

Erillion said:

sgel said:

Yeah, nice dig
Seriously.. name a few games that on release had less bugs than the SC alpha.

Also, you still haven't answered on what you mean by "larger".. do you mean the in-game playing area? Mechanics? Content? What?

>>>>Name a few games that on release had less bugs than the SC Alpha ?>>>>
--> Witcher 3 comes to mind, also Mass Effect (you asked for LESS bugs)

With "larger" i mean the scope of the game (space sim + FPS + economic simulation + sandbox + social Simulation + racing Simulation etc.) as well as the number of technical innovations. Even the limited playing space we see in the SC Alpha ("Crusader" area, Arccorp area, the racetrack etc.) is more than a lot of games offer.

Have fun

Name ONE technical innovation. Just ONE.

The combination of all these parts into one working whole sandbox game.
Something which you have chased for the last 21 years ... and failed. Repeatedly.

I would also like to point out that there is no "working whole sandbox" game yet. At this point everything that CR has done has been done before. He is currently "working" on this innovation that you are touting, he has not actually "done" any of it yet.

CR is working on it and he hasn't even realized that other game studios have already done it and are making his magnum
opus kinda crap

Erillion · February 2017

dsmart said:

Erillion said:

sgel said:

Erillion said:

--> Yes, the Alpha so far is tiny to what the complete Persistent Universe will be. But it is already larger and more complex than many fully launched games out there. And it has also less bugs than many fully launched games out ther ;-)

What do you mean by larger? Could you name a few games that are smaller than the SC alpha? Could you name some released games that have more bugs than the SC alpha?

>>> name a few games that are smaller than the SC Alpha >>>> About two thirds of the games on Steam are smaller than the SC Alpha in my opinion and my experience.
>>>>Released games that have more bugs than the SC Alpha ? >>> Well, "Battlecruiser 3000AD" comes to my mind ;-)

Have fun

I know you can't help yourself because defending the Star Citizen scam is a full-time job.

But comparing the bug-fest that is a $142 million tech demo, to an INDIE game from 1996 (FROM 21 YEARS AGO) is always good for a laugh.

You guys can't go a few posts without somehow dragging me or my games into your nonsense.

I have compared a game in Alpha development (called Star Citizen) with a released game (Battlecruiser 3000 AD) that was so much a bug-fest that the gaming press at that time called it (Gamespot, 17th December 1996):

"...It will go down in legend as the most bug-ridden, unstable, unplayable pieces of software ever released. ...."

http://www.gamespot.com/reviews/battlecruiser-3000-ad-review/1900-2538148/

Have fun

dsmart · February 2017

Kefo said:

Erillion said:

7) Erin might have games under his belt but so do plenty of other devs out there. Hiring Erin sure you can say he has experience but then hiring your wife? It starts to creep into nepotism at this point. Not sure why you mention cryengine devs since I doubt they are family or friends so not sure you understand nepotism.

7) He hired her based on what? If she has degrees in marketing then sure but I don't ever remember anything she's done before the project. Which means he hired her on what basis?

She was hired based on the mere fact that she's his wife. Period. End of story.

In the general scheme of things, there is nothing wrong or illegal about it. Nepotism has it's pros and cons. The issue is that they made a very good attempt to hide it. Ask why that is, and you will have your answer.

Until I broke the news and made it public, they knew that hiring someone with ZERO experience in the gaming industry would raise questions and look bad that he hired his wife instead of other more qualified people. That's why they were so mad when I broke the news; and Chris only acknowledged it in his ludicrous Oct 2015 diatribe about me and The Escapist.

This YT interview from 2013, should've been a clue. You can clearly see how awkward it was, that they were avoiding the subject etc. It wasn't until third-party sources confirmed that they were in fact hiding it, that people took notice of what I had written in my blog - months earlier. Until then, nobody believed it.

She neither has experience, nor a degree in marketing. All her claims to that effect have been found to be FALSE; thus making her an academic fraud.

She has gone on the record (now removed - but ofc we have archives) saying she has no idea what her VP of marketing was supposed to be. Which explains a lot since there were marketing people there working for her and who are responsible for the game's marketing. You don't have to have any experience in a position in order to take the credit and/or responsibility for it. Heck, companies hire execs from completely different industries all the time.

Then ask yourself this: What marketing has there been for the project, and which has been attributed to it's success. The answer you're searching for would be none. You can go on eBay - right now - put up something to sell, pay extra for visibility. Boom. Marketing. Basically it was hype (from media, gamers etc) - and significant amount of LIES that got the project to this point. And now it's being torn down systematically as more and more people - including the media* - realize that after all this time, the emperor really had NO CLOTHES.

And Guinness NEVER certified nor verified her credentials. They certified the crowd-funding metrics. Nothing more, nothing less.

I have written extensively about this Sandi fiasco, including an entire blog from some months ago.

And back when they were accusing me of stalking, harassment etc - with zero proof - they didn't bother to say anything that my claims about her credentials being false. I was looking forward to that one because considering the hole my attorney tore into Ortwin, his response to that particular one would have been epic.

* this PC Invasion excerpt about the on-going free fly made most of us LOL

Predictably there is also a ship sale on as CIG encourage players to pump yet more cash into the game. Out advice is don’t whip out that wallet, they already have over 142 million to make this. If they can’t make it with that then there’s no hope for it.

Erillion · February 2017

Talonsin said:

Erillion said:

dsmart said:

Erillion said:

sgel said:

Yeah, nice dig
Seriously.. name a few games that on release had less bugs than the SC alpha.

Also, you still haven't answered on what you mean by "larger".. do you mean the in-game playing area? Mechanics? Content? What?

>>>>Name a few games that on release had less bugs than the SC Alpha ?>>>>
--> Witcher 3 comes to mind, also Mass Effect (you asked for LESS bugs)

With "larger" i mean the scope of the game (space sim + FPS + economic simulation + sandbox + social Simulation + racing Simulation etc.) as well as the number of technical innovations. Even the limited playing space we see in the SC Alpha ("Crusader" area, Arccorp area, the racetrack etc.) is more than a lot of games offer.

Have fun

Name ONE technical innovation. Just ONE.

The combination of all these parts into one working whole sandbox game.
Something which you have chased for the last 21 years ... and failed. Repeatedly.

Have games like Space Engineers and Emyprion not done these things? You can fly off a carrier, land on a planet and shoot things without any loading screens.

@Talonsin

Not at that level of graphical detail and quality, which requires a lot more work and "horsepowers" in the background. I own both the games you mentioned and IMHO Star Citizen is a big step forward from there technically.

I name Star Wars Galaxies as a spiritual successor to SC and (partially) these games.

Have fun

dsmart · February 2017

rpmcmurphy said:

CrazKanuk said:

Yeah, this is totally normal. I mean we've seen the same with ED in the last month. Average player activity is up 50% (6k versus 4k) average. Similarly, that will ultimately fall back off to the more normal 4k numbers.

Again, this isn't a bad thing. What's most important is the revolving player numbers. So 2-week activity is probably what is most telling, and ED is still cranking away at like 10% which is very respectable, based on what I've seen.

Either way, the fact is that it's uncharacteristic for players to play a game during alpha/beta. So while I respect your debate on facts, etc. and attempting to use logic to put a metric on it, but the only fact is that any number that we throw out there right now is meaningless because there are significant factors which impact any sort of accurate data collection. Even if there was an accurate, reliable, data source, do we have enough information to intelligently estimate expected numbers at release, based on Alpha statistics?

Bearing in mind that Steam accounts for less than half of the playerbase.

But I agree fully otherwise, and in regard to your question, no I don't think we do. We could speculate based on other space games and all that but there's always the possibilty a World of Warcraft situation occuring, although given the hardware requirements, sci-fi focus and that it's a new IP would make it more unilkely.

The SC metrics are all false and like the development itself, fraught with obfuscation. The numbers are all largely meaningless.

And all our metrics, going back months now, lead to the conclusion that only a few whales are still propping up the funding. Heck, according to latest metrics, even the VD sale which funnily goes to 02/28, has seen less than 1000 backers so far buying ANYTHING. And furthermore.

It's a scam. All of it. At the point where Chris came out and said that if funding dried up, they would have enough money to finish only SQ42, sealed the deal on that particular point. Clearly.

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Star Citizen - Valentines Day Free Fly Event (with multi-crew ship)

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"...It will go down in legend as the most bug-ridden, unstable, unplayable pieces of software ever released. ...."