MaxBacon said: SC is a technical colossus because it is doing on the tech front, simulation, physics, even graphics are being pushed as far they can go, what MMOs practically never push on.
Yeah, no MMO "pushed as far they can go" to whooping 24 players per instance...
Like said, that is nothing extraordinary, all games do this trade off. In fact those client side/single player "features" are actually very easy to do and far away from anything that could be called "complex".
Azzras said: The game is still alpha and had more to do than a full game like Mech Warriors Online. When SC was first announced, everyone said it's may vape ware and you're being duped. Now that game development has progressed, the attacks have change to launch date. Again, SC right now in the alpha stage had more to do than some games that have launched and been out for years.
There is no SC. There are just some separate tech demos called modules that eventually might become an online game - so far RSI do not have money to make SC.
MWO is already heap more by the fact alone that it is an actual, released game. Besides, MWO is moba, silly comparison.
MWO you fight mechs on various maps. You configure your mech in the bay module. You fight using the map module. SC you configure your ships in the hanger module. You fight in the god fighting module or in the PU. You can ALSO do fps combat using the star marine module. You can ALSO race using another module. Your stats are tracked. In the PU, you can complete missions, there are bounties, mining, 2 starting areas, eva, fps, dog fighting, armor and weapons you can purchase using funds from completed missions, etc.
Yeah, no MMO "pushed as far they can go" to whooping 24 players per instance...
This is just going to the trolling level, again nitpicking the current instance population to discredit everything else, like the cloud network model of the game sets the standard for how worth or worthless is the tech they have created.
It's the typical hater narrative "all SC has is stuff that is easy to do", that's why it was never been done before at this scale, because it is so easy and not complex at all!
You're like that other guy that was saying SC is nothing but what a group of students could do within a school project. >.>
MaxBacon said: again nitpicking the current instance population
Pointing out flaws in your chant and common sense is nitpicking? o.O
It would be nitpicking because you're only choosing to focus on the 24 players part only. As some have said, there's a big reason why it can only currently hold 24 players.
It COULD have been vaproware originally but 140 million or whatever sort of forces these guys to put out something.
It still isnt much more beyond what tehy ooriginally launched. Despite them renumbering it like its a released game with updates.
They added a few more ships (which they should since people have spent millions on them) they have added the most minimal of minimal in terms of persistence, they added an FPS mod that someone could have built in their basement in a month. And they redid some art work.
To make the claim that his game is exponentially better than what they originally released back a couple years ago is a laugh. And to say its better than most released games is funny too.
Its just more people trying to justify their actions and thoughts with trying to oversell something that anyone with a brain can see isnt the truth.
I am waiting for them to put stuff in the game they have shown in those fake movies they roll out at every convention.
Where are the planets? Where are the worms? Where are the dune buggies? Where is the hornet taking off from one ship and flying INto another and landing?
Thats just what they have SHOWN. The stuff they have TALKED about is so long it cant even be addressed. But how about a SINGLE profession? Mining for example. Where are the skills? The advancement? The actual Nodes or meteors to harvest? What about the recipes of things youre going to make with it?
You guys realize how complex it is to make a crafting system? And then the economic system (well with this game thats easy since its a real world money economy). But they havent shown a single thing relating to crafting. Which I guess makes sense since its not a real game yet just a tech demo. But it just shows how far this project is to getting anywhere near something that resembles an actual game let alone MMO.
Phaserlight said: (to have at least the possibility of 500+ players in the same "space" by design
You also can't push such numbers as what is one, MMO's like Guild Wars 2 would not be one MMO because no 500 players share the same space, not even close to that, they are spread within several instances, as many instances as necessary.
On the way technology, as the cloud developed, more and more approach the cloud setups as SC, it's the alternative that allows devs to make more complex online games where all players still persist on the same game-world.
You're talking about GW2's PvE instances that are capped to avoid being overcrowded. Each instance has its own player cap setting on purpose but today it's not really due to technological limitations anymore but rather a player experience preference. I guess WvW instances have the highest player caps since it's not uncommon (at least on top tier EU servers) to see three "factions" with all together hundreds of players fighting literally on the same spot. Regarding the larger PvE zones you might have heard of the world first clear of the world boss event Triple Trouble which was first done by an organized group of 3x40 people (Desolation-EU) in the same instance. The event was designed and recommended for an organized group of 100+ players which is huge even with today's MMO standards. Guild missions also have large scale variants for larger guilds.
You are right about the fact that the instances don't support 500+ players though. I guess not even cities nor guild halls support 500+ players in the same instance. In fact 100+ visible players on a single spot seem too much of a crowd in any MMO.
After enduring Star Marine I have come to the conclusion that Star Marine is probably not worth looking at again for a long time. Anyone thinking it’s worth trying Star Citizen for this FPS module would be better off looking at something else. Anything, in fact. Anything would be better than what I have just experienced.
Game developers are just human beings who happen to make games for a living. If you want to hold us up to higher standards of conduct, then go ahead ...but don't be surprised if we don't uphold them.
...Planets that you can land one wasn't even supposed to be a thing till way after launch, now look, it's within a couple of months.
Ahahahahahaha!
*Gigle*
*Ahem*
*Gigli*
"a couple of months"
He, he.
*Ahem*
Sorry, but:
Ahahahahahahahaha!
Yeah, right.
In a couple of months we will still be hearing about it from CIG, all the while White Knights tell us about "how of course noone could expect it to be out yet, duh"!
Calling that one now.
Well they are already flat-out denying that he even said the much touted 3.0 was due out in Dec 2016. This despite the fact that he on freaking video (23:36), saying precisely that.
100% accurate transcript:
“..so, it’s our big end of the year release. er so er yeah, so we’re gonna get it out the end of the year; hopefully not on December 19th but, er, like last year….but it is a big one, so, not making er, I got shot for making promises, but er, that’s our goal.”
Want to know what was promised in 3.0 (and which no longer even appears in the schedule?)? Here you go. All 3.0 to 4.0 promises
Game developers are just human beings who happen to make games for a living. If you want to hold us up to higher standards of conduct, then go ahead ...but don't be surprised if we don't uphold them.
Azzras said: The game is still alpha and had more to do than a full game like Mech Warriors Online. When SC was first announced, everyone said it's may vape ware and you're being duped. Now that game development has progressed, the attacks have change to launch date. Again, SC right now in the alpha stage had more to do than some games that have launched and been out for years.
There is no SC. There are just some separate tech demos called modules that eventually might become an online game - so far RSI do not have money to make SC.
MWO is already heap more by the fact alone that it is an actual, released game. Besides, MWO is moba, silly comparison.
MWO you fight mechs on various maps. You configure your mech in the bay module. You fight using the map module. SC you configure your ships in the hanger module. You fight in the god fighting module or in the PU. You can ALSO do fps combat using the star marine module. You can ALSO race using another module. Your stats are tracked. In the PU, you can complete missions, there are bounties, mining, 2 starting areas, eva, fps, dog fighting, armor and weapons you can purchase using funds from completed missions, etc.
Must be nice being able to play this nonexistent game, oh right it is a group of modules that don't work with each other...MWO is a working game, SC is not. If and when SC launches you can make your comparisons, until then you are just doing some wishful thinking.
Herase said: It would be nitpicking because you're only choosing to focus on the 24 players part only. As some have said, there's a big reason why it can only currently hold 24 players.
It is no nitpicking, it is what matters...
Single player(or less players) games are technologically way less complex and less difficult to make.
Again, any game is making the tradeoff between physics and multiplayer. SC is nothing special in that regard, no "technological colossus" or w/e.
Game developers are just human beings who happen to make games for a living. If you want to hold us up to higher standards of conduct, then go ahead ...but don't be surprised if we don't uphold them.
You're talking about GW2's PvE instances that are capped to avoid being overcrowded
You are right about the fact that the instances don't support 500+ players though. I guess not even cities nor guild halls support 500+ players in the same instance. In fact 100+ visible players on a single spot seem too much of a crowd in any MMO.
I know why it is instanced, it is as well due the NPC simulation/events and such it involves allows rather more dynamic content per instance, they just didn't took any tech to make transitions between instances seamless. From what I know instances on GW2 are around 100-150, less on Cities. The rendering factor also became a factor for instancing and is a problem within MMO's that is those BIG clashes of people causing big performance impacts.
Again, any game is making the tradeoff between physics and multiplayer.
Nobody is trading it though, they just are going with a network model that works well with stuff as more intensive simulation, players / vehicles (ships) / AI and so forth.
Yeah, that is why you can have +1k players at the same spot...oh wait...
Okay, make the network scale up as much it can to allow 1K players on the same spot and you'll see the actual problem. How is one player going to RENDER 1K players at the same spot?
The network model can very well scale up to allow 1K players on the same solar system or wathever, avoiding the "orgies" of players.
MaxBacon said: Okay, make the network scale up as much it can to allow 1K players on the same spot and you'll see the actual problem. How is one player RENDER 1K players at the same spot?
[mod edit]
Check out EVE Online a game that sacrified "physics" for large scale gameplay - single server, thousands of ships on one spot.
Check out EVE Online a game that sacrified "physics" for large scale gameplay - single server, thousands of ships on one spot.
They sacrificed way more than physics for large scale gameplay. Their network is a colossal example of that.
SC never promised that large-scale gameplay of EvE, it's per DESIGN of the game, they go with more complex mechanics and simulation, especially in the ships that this is simply how.
Thet network model can very well allow thousands on the same area, imagine a system, and still allow the degree of complexity they want for it. If the tradeoff you mean they chosen the path that worked best for their game, then yes. lol
Isnt it odd how some people here refuse to admit this? This came from Chris's own mouth and yet they pick and choose which things he has said as the truth. Its bizarre.
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
MaxBacon said: Okay, make the network scale up as much it can to allow 1K players on the same spot and you'll see the actual problem. How is one player RENDER 1K players at the same spot?
You're funny xD
Check out EVE Online a game that sacrified "physics" for large scale gameplay - single server, thousands of ships on one spot.
You never played much EVE me seems ....
CCP is "cheating", using time dilation (essentially slowing everything down) AND dedicated reenforced battle servers. Not to mention that having ships instead of player avatars is WAAAY easier ....
And even then large scale combat happens rarely ... the vast majority of EVE combat is on a small gang scale, 20 ships or less. Based on 13 years of EVE Online experience.
You cannot do time dilation in FPS combat or joystick controlled space combat ... it would be like watching a slo-mo movie.
First learn what you are talking about ... THEN try to add something useful to the discussion.
MaxBacon said: They sacrificed way more than physics for large scale gameplay. Their network is a colossal example of that.
SC never promised that large-scale gameplay of EvE, it's per DESIGN of the game, they go with more complex mechanics and simulation, especially in the ships that this is simply how.
Thet network model can very well allow thousands on the same area, imagine a system, and still allow the degree of complexity they want for it. If the tradeoff you mean they chosen the path that worked best for their game, then yes. lol
....aaand back to hopeless. Gratz!
Says Mr. EVE Expert ... LOL ...
so much for someone being hopeless...
Yes, SC does allow thousands in the same area ... using an instance system. Its a different game design strategy than CCP. And CCP learned THEIR strategy the hard way ... from hundreds of crashed servers that were overloaded by too many players in the same area. Slaughtered player fleets galore, as only one side loaded into the battlefield and killed all the other motionless player ships... for years and years. THAT are events that an instance system would handle better.
Comments
Like said, that is nothing extraordinary, all games do this trade off. In fact those client side/single player "features" are actually very easy to do and far away from anything that could be called "complex".
SC you configure your ships in the hanger module. You fight in the god fighting module or in the PU. You can ALSO do fps combat using the star marine module. You can ALSO race using another module. Your stats are tracked. In the PU, you can complete missions, there are bounties, mining, 2 starting areas, eva, fps, dog fighting, armor and weapons you can purchase using funds from completed missions, etc.
It's the typical hater narrative "all SC has is stuff that is easy to do", that's why it was never been done before at this scale, because it is so easy and not complex at all!
You're like that other guy that was saying SC is nothing but what a group of students could do within a school project. >.>
It still isnt much more beyond what tehy ooriginally launched. Despite them renumbering it like its a released game with updates.
They added a few more ships (which they should since people have spent millions on them) they have added the most minimal of minimal in terms of persistence, they added an FPS mod that someone could have built in their basement in a month. And they redid some art work.
To make the claim that his game is exponentially better than what they originally released back a couple years ago is a laugh. And to say its better than most released games is funny too.
Its just more people trying to justify their actions and thoughts with trying to oversell something that anyone with a brain can see isnt the truth.
I am waiting for them to put stuff in the game they have shown in those fake movies they roll out at every convention.
Where are the planets? Where are the worms? Where are the dune buggies? Where is the hornet taking off from one ship and flying INto another and landing?
Thats just what they have SHOWN. The stuff they have TALKED about is so long it cant even be addressed. But how about a SINGLE profession? Mining for example. Where are the skills? The advancement? The actual Nodes or meteors to harvest? What about the recipes of things youre going to make with it?
You guys realize how complex it is to make a crafting system? And then the economic system (well with this game thats easy since its a real world money economy). But they havent shown a single thing relating to crafting. Which I guess makes sense since its not a real game yet just a tech demo. But it just shows how far this project is to getting anywhere near something that resembles an actual game let alone MMO.
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/15245-CitizenCon-2016
Have fun
That's the only logical explanation.....
Crazkanuk
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You are right about the fact that the instances don't support 500+ players though. I guess not even cities nor guild halls support 500+ players in the same instance. In fact 100+ visible players on a single spot seem too much of a crowd in any MMO.
1yr ago:
Star Citizen Will Have ‘More Lethal’ FPS Gameplay Than Call of Duty
Game developers are just human beings who happen to make games for a living.
If you want to hold us up to higher standards of conduct, then go ahead
...but don't be surprised if we don't uphold them.
100% accurate transcript:
Want to know what was promised in 3.0 (and which no longer even appears in the schedule?)? Here you go. All 3.0 to 4.0 promises
Game developers are just human beings who happen to make games for a living.
If you want to hold us up to higher standards of conduct, then go ahead
...but don't be surprised if we don't uphold them.
Single player(or less players) games are technologically way less complex and less difficult to make.
Again, any game is making the tradeoff between physics and multiplayer. SC is nothing special in that regard, no "technological colossus" or w/e.
"Really it is all about constant iteration from launch. The whole idea is to be constantly updating. It isn’t like the old days where you had to have everything and the kitchen sink in at launch because you weren’t going to come back to it for awhile. We’re already one year in - another two years puts us at 3 total which is ideal. Any more and things would begin to get stale." Chris Roberts, 10-19-2012
Game developers are just human beings who happen to make games for a living.
If you want to hold us up to higher standards of conduct, then go ahead
...but don't be surprised if we don't uphold them.
Nobody is trading it though, they just are going with a network model that works well with stuff as more intensive simulation, players / vehicles (ships) / AI and so forth.
[mod edit]
The network model can very well scale up to allow 1K players on the same solar system or wathever, avoiding the "orgies" of players.
[mod edit]
SC never promised that large-scale gameplay of EvE, it's per DESIGN of the game, they go with more complex mechanics and simulation, especially in the ships that this is simply how.
Thet network model can very well allow thousands on the same area, imagine a system, and still allow the degree of complexity they want for it. If the tradeoff you mean they chosen the path that worked best for their game, then yes. lol
CCP is "cheating", using time dilation (essentially slowing everything down) AND dedicated reenforced battle servers. Not to mention that having ships instead of player avatars is WAAAY easier ....
And even then large scale combat happens rarely ... the vast majority of EVE combat is on a small gang scale, 20 ships or less. Based on 13 years of EVE Online experience.
You cannot do time dilation in FPS combat or joystick controlled space combat ... it would be like watching a slo-mo movie.
First learn what you are talking about ... THEN try to add something useful to the discussion.
Have fun
so much for someone being hopeless...
Yes, SC does allow thousands in the same area ... using an instance system. Its a different game design strategy than CCP. And CCP learned THEIR strategy the hard way ... from hundreds of crashed servers that were overloaded by too many players in the same area. Slaughtered player fleets galore, as only one side loaded into the battlefield and killed all the other motionless player ships... for years and years. THAT are events that an instance system would handle better.
Have fun