Each team developping a game is an addition of skills and knowledges, when one leaves it may be a bit difficult for a little time but not unable to find replacement. All the best games of the past 10 years have seen lot of departures during development, and for some it may be because of design choices and different artistic opinions, but also lot of them are just for convenience or individual life choices or else. It doesn't mean the game will suck. Currently 2.4.0 offers lot of fun, and we're really in the good way to have a great game for the beginning of 2017, so I'm really enthusiast about the future of the game.
Same ole same ole ... even more so than usual. A mash-up TLDR combined version of his last three blogs (and those had IMHO doubtful "content" to start with).
When the main "new" fact in this article is the (of course unproven) claim that Chris Roberts has a toupee, then you know what to expect from the rest of the (very long very boring) article.
Have fun
PS: Too bad if the guy someone talks about in his blog goes public and shoots down the false statement made in the blog: https://imgur.com/oj4B9zE Also too bad if someone is then pissed about it, follows up with many more tweets and is completely ignored by the man in question (well, would YOU have answered someone that tweets to you "..nobody gives a shit about what u guys do.." ?)
PPS: Ahh, holy back pedaling ... ad hominems against Jon Dadley coming in hot and fast at a rate of one tweet per minute. My my, what a change .. first he is named in the blog a "talented senior designer", now he is being told to STFU by the blog author.
Ha! Maybe you should read his new blog instead of spreading your normal misinformation.
Read about what? Another developer who has stayed with one company for years. *yawn*
Contextually speaking, turnover in tech-related companies is massive. Why? Because really smart, creative, innovative people want to do new stuff. So once the shiny is gone, they're out! I find it funny when people speak in completely contextually-specific terms with complete disregard for anything external. Did you know that the median tenure at Google is just over 1 year? How about that Amazon.com is only 1 year?
Soooooo, yeah! Basically, if you are able to retain talent for a couple years, great! Two and a half years is actually pretty long.
Also, while we're on the subject, why is it that The Escapist article was the MOST relevant thing in the world!!!!! Yet, someone who actually worked at CIG, but not anymore, essentially calls DSmart an idiot and the response is, "Yeah, but did you read his blog?!?!?" This is first party information from someone who had every opportunity to either say nothing or completely throw CIG under the bus. Instead, he chose to, in essence, laugh at DS.
Hey that's great that Google and Amazon have a median tenure of 1 year. Now how about you compare some video game companies and the people in charge how long they have been there. I don't care about the artist or programmer who is handed something and expected to do it but rather the person who is in charge of the programmers or artists.
Yes, I completely understand how this works. Someone says something you believe. Someone refutes that with factual evidence. You say you don't care. Yes, we get how the cycle goes. Technology industries have the lowest employee retention of any industry. That's a fact. I would link something here to support that, but I'm assuming it would be pointless anyway. If you do have a genuine interest, feel free to Google it. It's actually quite interesting.
Also, while I can appreciate you putting Management on a pedestal, they aren't the ones who need to learn the code base. While Managers are valuable because of the relationships they've created within a team, the grunts or peons are very important in that they very rarely hit the ground running. There is almost always a learning curve. So with lower retention rates, the problem becomes one of flattening that learning curve somehow because, otherwise, you have a 6-month uptake and another 6-months of productive work before they leave. See how that might be a problem? So, yeah, two and a half years is not problematic. Also, this isn't the first time that people started yelling about the sky falling when someone left CIG, is it? I understand it must seem like an integral cog to the CIG machine, but it really isn't.
Feel free to call me an idiot if CIG should release a press release indicating they cannot continue without him.
You seem angry. Are you angry? Cause that's not like you lol
Not at all. Why is it that you are side-stepping the obvious here? While I can appreciate the cultist nature that some may adhere to, at which point do you ask relevant questions? I mean there have been, what? A half dozen "integral cogs" which have left CIG and some have touted as "THE END!!!!", yet, there they are, still chugging along. Huh, wonder how that is? Come close and I'll let you in on a little secret........ It's because no one person is the cog which would blow the company apart. If that's the way that companies structured themselves, we would see companies falling apart all the time, like there would literally be fortune 500 companies just disappearing on a monthly basis. Surprisingly enough, someone already figured that part out, so any one person is not important enough to a company to kill it if they leave. I know that might seem like a crazy idea. Just think about it.
Derek Smart live on The Open House talking about Scar Citizen and S42 development
DS again ? I do not think that the term One man Crusade is adequate enough to describe this guys obsession.
Could you for once explain to us why is this individual so much important and why should we adhere to his views about SC ?
Is it because of his flawless game development record ? Is it because his in-depth knowledge about running complex projects like SC ? Is it about his personality and the manner he addresses people with different views than him ?
What or which is this particular perk or set of skills which elevated him so high in your regard to the point that whatever he states about a project he is not participating in it immediately gains the seal of truth ?
Some gaming companies have great retention rates, Blizzard for example
As CrazKanuk and others have said companies change and adapt all the time. And we rarely see the change that happens outside of the people who appear in the headlines.
Does Blizzard, say, have better retention? Maybe, maybe not. Probably not that much different over time from other companies. For Legion they announced they were "doubling" the size of their WoW team to a whole 250. So they were down to 125. They let people go. Now letting people go isn't the same as retention - until you want the people back again. Companies truck on though.
Same ole same ole ... even more so than usual. A mash-up TLDR combined version of his last three blogs (and those had IMHO doubtful "content" to start with).
When the main "new" fact in this article is the (of course unproven) claim that Chris Roberts has a toupee, then you know what to expect from the rest of the (very long very boring) article.
Have fun
PS: Too bad if the guy someone talks about in his blog goes public and shoots down the false statement made in the blog: https://imgur.com/oj4B9zE Also too bad if someone is then pissed about it, follows up with many more tweets and is completely ignored by the man in question (well, would YOU have answered someone that tweets to you "..nobody gives a shit about what u guys do.." ?)
PPS: Ahh, holy back pedaling ... ad hominems against Jon Dadley coming in hot and fast at a rate of one tweet per minute. My my, what a change .. first he is named in the blog a "talented senior designer", now he is being told to STFU by the blog author.
Ha! Maybe you should read his new blog instead of spreading your normal misinformation.
Read about what? Another developer who has stayed with one company for years. *yawn*
Contextually speaking, turnover in tech-related companies is massive. Why? Because really smart, creative, innovative people want to do new stuff. So once the shiny is gone, they're out! I find it funny when people speak in completely contextually-specific terms with complete disregard for anything external. Did you know that the median tenure at Google is just over 1 year? How about that Amazon.com is only 1 year?
Soooooo, yeah! Basically, if you are able to retain talent for a couple years, great! Two and a half years is actually pretty long.
Also, while we're on the subject, why is it that The Escapist article was the MOST relevant thing in the world!!!!! Yet, someone who actually worked at CIG, but not anymore, essentially calls DSmart an idiot and the response is, "Yeah, but did you read his blog?!?!?" This is first party information from someone who had every opportunity to either say nothing or completely throw CIG under the bus. Instead, he chose to, in essence, laugh at DS.
Hey that's great that Google and Amazon have a median tenure of 1 year. Now how about you compare some video game companies and the people in charge how long they have been there. I don't care about the artist or programmer who is handed something and expected to do it but rather the person who is in charge of the programmers or artists.
Yes, I completely understand how this works. Someone says something you believe. Someone refutes that with factual evidence. You say you don't care. Yes, we get how the cycle goes. Technology industries have the lowest employee retention of any industry. That's a fact. I would link something here to support that, but I'm assuming it would be pointless anyway. If you do have a genuine interest, feel free to Google it. It's actually quite interesting.
Also, while I can appreciate you putting Management on a pedestal, they aren't the ones who need to learn the code base. While Managers are valuable because of the relationships they've created within a team, the grunts or peons are very important in that they very rarely hit the ground running. There is almost always a learning curve. So with lower retention rates, the problem becomes one of flattening that learning curve somehow because, otherwise, you have a 6-month uptake and another 6-months of productive work before they leave. See how that might be a problem? So, yeah, two and a half years is not problematic. Also, this isn't the first time that people started yelling about the sky falling when someone left CIG, is it? I understand it must seem like an integral cog to the CIG machine, but it really isn't.
Feel free to call me an idiot if CIG should release a press release indicating they cannot continue without him.
You seem angry. Are you angry? Cause that's not like you lol
Not at all. Why is it that you are side-stepping the obvious here? While I can appreciate the cultist nature that some may adhere to, at which point do you ask relevant questions? I mean there have been, what? A half dozen "integral cogs" which have left CIG and some have touted as "THE END!!!!", yet, there they are, still chugging along. Huh, wonder how that is? Come close and I'll let you in on a little secret........ It's because no one person is the cog which would blow the company apart. If that's the way that companies structured themselves, we would see companies falling apart all the time, like there would literally be fortune 500 companies just disappearing on a monthly basis. Surprisingly enough, someone already figured that part out, so any one person is not important enough to a company to kill it if they leave. I know that might seem like a crazy idea. Just think about it.
Pretty sure I've never claimed one person leaving will "blow a company apart" but rather when you have a high rate of turnover in the upper management then you are going to have some issues. Everyone coming into the company will need to be brought up to speed regardless of their position but someone who is in charge of a department takes longer to train and having a temp lead isn't really ideal. Plus you will start getting a drop in morale if everyone keeps leaving. The other negative is anyone looking for a job will see a high turnover rate and start to wonder if there is a reason for that and will probably skip applying unless they are desperate.
How much faster would CIG be "chugging along" if they didn't have to find someone new to hire or appoint within the company and then bring them up to speed with how they want things to go and have them get comfortable in the position?
Not at all. Why is it that you are side-stepping the obvious here? While I can appreciate the cultist nature that some may adhere to, at which point do you ask relevant questions? I mean there have been, what? A half dozen "integral cogs" which have left CIG and some have touted as "THE END!!!!", yet, there they are, still chugging along. Huh, wonder how that is? Come close and I'll let you in on a little secret........ It's because no one person is the cog which would blow the company apart. If that's the way that companies structured themselves, we would see companies falling apart all the time, like there would literally be fortune 500 companies just disappearing on a monthly basis. Surprisingly enough, someone already figured that part out, so any one person is not important enough to a company to kill it if they leave. I know that might seem like a crazy idea. Just think about it.
Pretty sure I've never claimed one person leaving will "blow a company apart" but rather when you have a high rate of turnover in the upper management then you are going to have some issues. Everyone coming into the company will need to be brought up to speed regardless of their position but someone who is in charge of a department takes longer to train and having a temp lead isn't really ideal. Plus you will start getting a drop in morale if everyone keeps leaving. The other negative is anyone looking for a job will see a high turnover rate and start to wonder if there is a reason for that and will probably skip applying unless they are desperate.
How much faster would CIG be "chugging along" if they didn't have to find someone new to hire or appoint within the company and then bring them up to speed with how they want things to go and have them get comfortable in the position?
I agree that if there is a particularly high turnover rate within a company, that can be problematic. So what's CIGs turnover rate and how does that compare to the industry? This is what I meant, I tossed out Google and Amazon's turnover rates and these were dismissed. The fact of the matter is that we don't really know what their turnover rate is. What we DO know is that this particular person worked there for 2 1/2 years, which is 2.5 times what could be expected as an average turnover rate at many technology companies. So it's reasonable to expect that they are able to handle that level of turnover.
I never said you claimed anything. I said that some would claim. Some meaning there are some who want to blow every little thing up like the sky is falling, but it's generally placed within a vacuum and not compared to anything relevant outside of CIG, like compared against the industry or larger technology industry. The thinking is similar to that of doomsday prophets, that if we say something enough, statistically we'll be right at some point. That in mind, people tend to remember when people say something correctly rather than incorrectly. Take a look at the most recent doomsday prophecy that just passed. When was it? Oh yeah, I can't remember off the top of my head. I do remember that it was re-forecast for a later date, though, which also passed, lol. Fact is that there are hundreds of apocalyptic events which have been predicted, and we're still here. However, some day, someone will get something right and people will bow down to them like a god because they took a guess and guessed right.
Not at all. Why is it that you are side-stepping the obvious here? While I can appreciate the cultist nature that some may adhere to, at which point do you ask relevant questions? I mean there have been, what? A half dozen "integral cogs" which have left CIG and some have touted as "THE END!!!!", yet, there they are, still chugging along. Huh, wonder how that is? Come close and I'll let you in on a little secret........ It's because no one person is the cog which would blow the company apart. If that's the way that companies structured themselves, we would see companies falling apart all the time, like there would literally be fortune 500 companies just disappearing on a monthly basis. Surprisingly enough, someone already figured that part out, so any one person is not important enough to a company to kill it if they leave. I know that might seem like a crazy idea. Just think about it.
Pretty sure I've never claimed one person leaving will "blow a company apart" but rather when you have a high rate of turnover in the upper management then you are going to have some issues. Everyone coming into the company will need to be brought up to speed regardless of their position but someone who is in charge of a department takes longer to train and having a temp lead isn't really ideal. Plus you will start getting a drop in morale if everyone keeps leaving. The other negative is anyone looking for a job will see a high turnover rate and start to wonder if there is a reason for that and will probably skip applying unless they are desperate.
How much faster would CIG be "chugging along" if they didn't have to find someone new to hire or appoint within the company and then bring them up to speed with how they want things to go and have them get comfortable in the position?
I agree that if there is a particularly high turnover rate within a company, that can be problematic. So what's CIGs turnover rate and how does that compare to the industry? This is what I meant, I tossed out Google and Amazon's turnover rates and these were dismissed. The fact of the matter is that we don't really know what their turnover rate is. What we DO know is that this particular person worked there for 2 1/2 years, which is 2.5 times what could be expected as an average turnover rate at many technology companies. So it's reasonable to expect that they are able to handle that level of turnover.
I never said you claimed anything. I said that some would claim. Some meaning there are some who want to blow every little thing up like the sky is falling, but it's generally placed within a vacuum and not compared to anything relevant outside of CIG, like compared against the industry or larger technology industry. The thinking is similar to that of doomsday prophets, that if we say something enough, statistically we'll be right at some point. That in mind, people tend to remember when people say something correctly rather than incorrectly. Take a look at the most recent doomsday prophecy that just passed. When was it? Oh yeah, I can't remember off the top of my head. I do remember that it was re-forecast for a later date, though, which also passed, lol. Fact is that there are hundreds of apocalyptic events which have been predicted, and we're still here. However, some day, someone will get something right and people will bow down to them like a god because they took a guess and guessed right.
Don't think you want to get to gung ho over that last paragraph. Much of that 'bad prophecy' stuff can be equally laid at CR's feet. He struggles to accurately predict a deadline, despite being in the best position to do so. He has released videos of him not knowing or being able to play his own game. There's a nine month stretch where he continually claimed the next big feature release is just around the corner (next week! next month!). It then turns out to be unavailable til the game release. MVP. And so on. Roberts is his own worst enemy.
I guess at some point Roberts will have to guess correctly. Will people bow down to him like a god because he finally chose right? 'Cause Squadron 42 is certainly looking likely to miss its 2016 deadline.
As for the turnover issue, the glass half full view is that it is standard for the industry. The glass half empty is that the new folks get in, see the incompetence, and find themselves another job as quick as they are able, so as not to be tied to the eventual disaster.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
Not at all. Why is it that you are side-stepping the obvious here? While I can appreciate the cultist nature that some may adhere to, at which point do you ask relevant questions? I mean there have been, what? A half dozen "integral cogs" which have left CIG and some have touted as "THE END!!!!", yet, there they are, still chugging along. Huh, wonder how that is? Come close and I'll let you in on a little secret........ It's because no one person is the cog which would blow the company apart. If that's the way that companies structured themselves, we would see companies falling apart all the time, like there would literally be fortune 500 companies just disappearing on a monthly basis. Surprisingly enough, someone already figured that part out, so any one person is not important enough to a company to kill it if they leave. I know that might seem like a crazy idea. Just think about it.
Pretty sure I've never claimed one person leaving will "blow a company apart" but rather when you have a high rate of turnover in the upper management then you are going to have some issues. Everyone coming into the company will need to be brought up to speed regardless of their position but someone who is in charge of a department takes longer to train and having a temp lead isn't really ideal. Plus you will start getting a drop in morale if everyone keeps leaving. The other negative is anyone looking for a job will see a high turnover rate and start to wonder if there is a reason for that and will probably skip applying unless they are desperate.
How much faster would CIG be "chugging along" if they didn't have to find someone new to hire or appoint within the company and then bring them up to speed with how they want things to go and have them get comfortable in the position?
I agree that if there is a particularly high turnover rate within a company, that can be problematic. So what's CIGs turnover rate and how does that compare to the industry? This is what I meant, I tossed out Google and Amazon's turnover rates and these were dismissed. The fact of the matter is that we don't really know what their turnover rate is. What we DO know is that this particular person worked there for 2 1/2 years, which is 2.5 times what could be expected as an average turnover rate at many technology companies. So it's reasonable to expect that they are able to handle that level of turnover.
I never said you claimed anything. I said that some would claim. Some meaning there are some who want to blow every little thing up like the sky is falling, but it's generally placed within a vacuum and not compared to anything relevant outside of CIG, like compared against the industry or larger technology industry. The thinking is similar to that of doomsday prophets, that if we say something enough, statistically we'll be right at some point. That in mind, people tend to remember when people say something correctly rather than incorrectly. Take a look at the most recent doomsday prophecy that just passed. When was it? Oh yeah, I can't remember off the top of my head. I do remember that it was re-forecast for a later date, though, which also passed, lol. Fact is that there are hundreds of apocalyptic events which have been predicted, and we're still here. However, some day, someone will get something right and people will bow down to them like a god because they took a guess and guessed right.
I dismissed your goggle and Amazon rates because, at least in my mind, they are much different from a game still in early development. Their product is set and out on the market, new features are being developed or improvements behind the scenes but they don't have to worry about a director of a department leaving and leaving them rudderless until a replacement is found since they all know what the product is.
SC is still very early in development and it needs a strong managing force behind it to keep the teams focused and on task. No we don't know what the turnover rate is like at CIG but I would hazard a guess it's slowly creeping up and this would be at the bottom of the ladder as well.
Im gonna have to disagree on your people remembering when someone is right. People, in my opinion, tend to remember the times you were wrong a lot better than when you were right. Chris someday might actually gave a date and he could be right but by that point most people won't believe him and when it does turn out to be true most will still remember him as someone not to be trusted with release dates. People tend to remember the negative but I know gamers love to remember the negative things lol
I dunno, some of the stuff seems far too coincidental, it would indicate that he does have an inside connection of one degree or another. IIRC recently he announced some guy's departure before it was mentioned anywhere, he's either Mystic Meg or someone is slipping stuff out.
I thought the focus was on getting S42 out the door but I only see regular SC updates.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
CIG has the lid on SQ42 news until GamesCom in August. So far there are only hints and no leaks.
No leaks .... including no info from the imaginary "insider source" named by our regular nutjob. His claim of no completed levels for SQ42 has been directly debunked by a CIG developer that HAS completed levels for SQ42 and told him so publically. This developer has first been called highly competent by our ever faithful nutjob up until the time he contradicted him ... then the developer was vilified and threatened with a whole accusing blog about him as punishment for his hubris. "Thou shall not debunk THE MIGHTY D-FACE !"
I agree that if there is a particularly high turnover rate within a company, that can be problematic. So what's CIGs turnover rate and how does that compare to the industry? This is what I meant, I tossed out Google and Amazon's turnover rates and these were dismissed. The fact of the matter is that we don't really know what their turnover rate is. What we DO know is that this particular person worked there for 2 1/2 years, which is 2.5 times what could be expected as an average turnover rate at many technology companies. So it's reasonable to expect that they are able to handle that level of turnover.
I never said you claimed anything. I said that some would claim. Some meaning there are some who want to blow every little thing up like the sky is falling, but it's generally placed within a vacuum and not compared to anything relevant outside of CIG, like compared against the industry or larger technology industry. The thinking is similar to that of doomsday prophets, that if we say something enough, statistically we'll be right at some point. That in mind, people tend to remember when people say something correctly rather than incorrectly. Take a look at the most recent doomsday prophecy that just passed. When was it? Oh yeah, I can't remember off the top of my head. I do remember that it was re-forecast for a later date, though, which also passed, lol. Fact is that there are hundreds of apocalyptic events which have been predicted, and we're still here. However, some day, someone will get something right and people will bow down to them like a god because they took a guess and guessed right.
I dismissed your goggle and Amazon rates because, at least in my mind, they are much different from a game still in early development. Their product is set and out on the market, new features are being developed or improvements behind the scenes but they don't have to worry about a director of a department leaving and leaving them rudderless until a replacement is found since they all know what the product is.
SC is still very early in development and it needs a strong managing force behind it to keep the teams focused and on task. No we don't know what the turnover rate is like at CIG but I would hazard a guess it's slowly creeping up and this would be at the bottom of the ladder as well.
Im gonna have to disagree on your people remembering when someone is right. People, in my opinion, tend to remember the times you were wrong a lot better than when you were right. Chris someday might actually gave a date and he could be right but by that point most people won't believe him and when it does turn out to be true most will still remember him as someone not to be trusted with release dates. People tend to remember the negative but I know gamers love to remember the negative things lol
I think that you're pretty naive to believe that the work at Google and Amazon is done and they are in maintenance mode. Google, especially, is constantly introducing new products and services in order to improve their capitalization on their advertising. Believing that a Director is any less important when a product is in maintenance, is crazy. Why would anyone spend big bucks to maintain this position if it's unnecessary, as you're asserting? Honestly, it's a little hilarious that you believe that when a product is in development the manager is the one steering the ship. That's simply not the way things work. There are clear, well-defined plans of action. There are heaps of documents detailing who the software will perform, what would be nice to have, and how it should be executed. These documents are in place for the very reason that you don't want someone walking out of the building one day, and there goes your entire product. The rudder is in the paperwork, not the person. The person is simply there to lead the cadence, to get you to row harder and longer, to finish first and with the best quality. That isn't to say these are unimportant qualities, but they have zero impact on what's being done. Nobody will be "lost" if their director were to leave today. They know what needs to be done. In fact, that goes for just about any business, software or otherwise. I'm honestly questioning why you feel that way. What field is it that you work in that a director leaving would leave you rudderless?
Also, it seems like they have reasonable stability in their technical positions. Going through LinkedIn quickly, took the time with CIG of current employees in a technical position (managerial or not) and the average tenure is nearly 2 years, 1.8 years to be exact, or about 1 year 10 months. Granted, the sample size was only about 10% of all their listings on LinkedIn, but it's all LinkedIn would let me have
Honestly, there's no real evidence that there is any increase in turnover rate. There's no evidence that they are hemorrhaging employees or even managers. The mix of users that I came across had someone as critical as an engine programmer who has been there for 3 months and someone as senior as a technical director who has been there for over 3 years.
On a final note, so you believe that people remember when you're wrong and they won't believe CR even when he does give a date. So, why, may I ask, would you then believe anything that DS has to say. At this point, hasn't he given 4 or 5 different "ELE" dates? Dates that have come and gone? Yet, people still seem to take everything he says as gospel.
Why feel sorry for people? I backed Hex, played it once in Beta and never played it again. I backed Shards and have never picked it up. I backed Grim Dawn and just started playing it now. I backed SC and have only ever logged into my hanger. Maybe you feel sorry because you believe that peoples expectations are higher than what they are.
I rarely hear backers of crowdfunding arguing that their expectations are any more than the hope for something better, a donation to a cause. It's usually the detractors, those who swear off ever backing any sort of crowdfunding, who want to label it as an investment or a pre-order. So while you may feel people are being ripped off, it's probably just the perspective from your side of the fence.
I agree that if there is a particularly high turnover rate within a company, that can be problematic. So what's CIGs turnover rate and how does that compare to the industry? This is what I meant, I tossed out Google and Amazon's turnover rates and these were dismissed. The fact of the matter is that we don't really know what their turnover rate is. What we DO know is that this particular person worked there for 2 1/2 years, which is 2.5 times what could be expected as an average turnover rate at many technology companies. So it's reasonable to expect that they are able to handle that level of turnover.
I never said you claimed anything. I said that some would claim. Some meaning there are some who want to blow every little thing up like the sky is falling, but it's generally placed within a vacuum and not compared to anything relevant outside of CIG, like compared against the industry or larger technology industry. The thinking is similar to that of doomsday prophets, that if we say something enough, statistically we'll be right at some point. That in mind, people tend to remember when people say something correctly rather than incorrectly. Take a look at the most recent doomsday prophecy that just passed. When was it? Oh yeah, I can't remember off the top of my head. I do remember that it was re-forecast for a later date, though, which also passed, lol. Fact is that there are hundreds of apocalyptic events which have been predicted, and we're still here. However, some day, someone will get something right and people will bow down to them like a god because they took a guess and guessed right.
I dismissed your goggle and Amazon rates because, at least in my mind, they are much different from a game still in early development. Their product is set and out on the market, new features are being developed or improvements behind the scenes but they don't have to worry about a director of a department leaving and leaving them rudderless until a replacement is found since they all know what the product is.
SC is still very early in development and it needs a strong managing force behind it to keep the teams focused and on task. No we don't know what the turnover rate is like at CIG but I would hazard a guess it's slowly creeping up and this would be at the bottom of the ladder as well.
Im gonna have to disagree on your people remembering when someone is right. People, in my opinion, tend to remember the times you were wrong a lot better than when you were right. Chris someday might actually gave a date and he could be right but by that point most people won't believe him and when it does turn out to be true most will still remember him as someone not to be trusted with release dates. People tend to remember the negative but I know gamers love to remember the negative things lol
I think that you're pretty naive to believe that the work at Google and Amazon is done and they are in maintenance mode. Google, especially, is constantly introducing new products and services in order to improve their capitalization on their advertising. Believing that a Director is any less important when a product is in maintenance, is crazy. Why would anyone spend big bucks to maintain this position if it's unnecessary, as you're asserting? Honestly, it's a little hilarious that you believe that when a product is in development the manager is the one steering the ship. That's simply not the way things work. There are clear, well-defined plans of action. There are heaps of documents detailing who the software will perform, what would be nice to have, and how it should be executed. These documents are in place for the very reason that you don't want someone walking out of the building one day, and there goes your entire product. The rudder is in the paperwork, not the person. The person is simply there to lead the cadence, to get you to row harder and longer, to finish first and with the best quality. That isn't to say these are unimportant qualities, but they have zero impact on what's being done. Nobody will be "lost" if their director were to leave today. They know what needs to be done. In fact, that goes for just about any business, software or otherwise. I'm honestly questioning why you feel that way. What field is it that you work in that a director leaving would leave you rudderless?
Also, it seems like they have reasonable stability in their technical positions. Going through LinkedIn quickly, took the time with CIG of current employees in a technical position (managerial or not) and the average tenure is nearly 2 years, 1.8 years to be exact, or about 1 year 10 months. Granted, the sample size was only about 10% of all their listings on LinkedIn, but it's all LinkedIn would let me have
Honestly, there's no real evidence that there is any increase in turnover rate. There's no evidence that they are hemorrhaging employees or even managers. The mix of users that I came across had someone as critical as an engine programmer who has been there for 3 months and someone as senior as a technical director who has been there for over 3 years.
On a final note, so you believe that people remember when you're wrong and they won't believe CR even when he does give a date. So, why, may I ask, would you then believe anything that DS has to say. At this point, hasn't he given 4 or 5 different "ELE" dates? Dates that have come and gone? Yet, people still seem to take everything he says as gospel.
Since you didn't read my reply I didn't read yours except the first part. You might wanna go back where I say they are still working on new features and improvements before you call me out
I think that you're pretty naive to believe that the work at Google and Amazon is done and they are in maintenance mode. Google, especially, is constantly introducing new products and services in order to improve their capitalization on their advertising. Believing that a Director is any less important when a product is in maintenance, is crazy. Why would anyone spend big bucks to maintain this position if it's unnecessary, as you're asserting? Honestly, it's a little hilarious that you believe that when a product is in development the manager is the one steering the ship. That's simply not the way things work. There are clear, well-defined plans of action. There are heaps of documents detailing who the software will perform, what would be nice to have, and how it should be executed. These documents are in place for the very reason that you don't want someone walking out of the building one day, and there goes your entire product. The rudder is in the paperwork, not the person. The person is simply there to lead the cadence, to get you to row harder and longer, to finish first and with the best quality. That isn't to say these are unimportant qualities, but they have zero impact on what's being done. Nobody will be "lost" if their director were to leave today. They know what needs to be done. In fact, that goes for just about any business, software or otherwise. I'm honestly questioning why you feel that way. What field is it that you work in that a director leaving would leave you rudderless?
Also, it seems like they have reasonable stability in their technical positions. Going through LinkedIn quickly, took the time with CIG of current employees in a technical position (managerial or not) and the average tenure is nearly 2 years, 1.8 years to be exact, or about 1 year 10 months. Granted, the sample size was only about 10% of all their listings on LinkedIn, but it's all LinkedIn would let me have
Honestly, there's no real evidence that there is any increase in turnover rate. There's no evidence that they are hemorrhaging employees or even managers. The mix of users that I came across had someone as critical as an engine programmer who has been there for 3 months and someone as senior as a technical director who has been there for over 3 years.
On a final note, so you believe that people remember when you're wrong and they won't believe CR even when he does give a date. So, why, may I ask, would you then believe anything that DS has to say. At this point, hasn't he given 4 or 5 different "ELE" dates? Dates that have come and gone? Yet, people still seem to take everything he says as gospel.
Since you didn't read my reply I didn't read yours except the first part. You might wanna go back where I say they are still working on new features and improvements before you call me out
You might want to read the part where I mention that these things are collected into documentation, not imagined in someone's head, meaning their existence at the company is to lead, a skill which is easily transitioned. The vision has already been set (and reset a number of times), so a Manager leaving is very inconsequential to the final product at this point.
"Alpha Patch 2.4.1 has been released to the PTU, and is now available
for players to test! During this initial testing phase, PTU access will
be restricted to a small group of players that we will expand on over
time as required.
Please take full advantage of our Issue Council area of the Community
site to report any bugs you encounter, as well as contribute to other
players submissions.
We will be wiping the persistence database with this patch from 2.4.0 to 2.4.1.
If you do not see your ships on first log in, please close the client and log back in.
You’re ships should appear on the second login.
Contents:
Updates and Fixes
Star Systems:
You can no longer obtain large amounts of aUEC by shooting parts of Security Station Kareah under specific circumstances.
Ships:
Fixed an issue where the Mustang Delta shields were not visualizing correctly when physically damaged.
Fixed an issue where the Aurora would rotate up to 180 degrees when spawned on the landing pad.
Technical:
Fixed a server crash.
Fixed several persistence service related crashes.
Fixed several persistence issues that related to items being
incorrectly deleted, items not showing up in game correctly and items
being duplicated.
Fixed several client crashes.
Fixed an issue that was causing infinite load screens when attempting to load into ArcCorp or Crusader."
"James Ku, Senior Character Artist, sculpted a brand new female from scratch in ZBrush
The high poly sculpt was retopologized into game topology
The textures were generated from the high poly and applied to the game topology
Human skin shader was applied and configured
Texture projection was performed in MARI and subtle details (blemishes and colour variations) were added
Unfortunately
there are still lots of animations to be applied, tones of testing to
be done and lots of clothing to be fitted: but they are making really
good progress.
Per definition it has not flopped because the company already HAS the money. 117 M$.
Have fun
You mean Chris Roberts and major associates are not going to flop. But these guys earning more money does not mean that the company or the project will stay or will succeed. I agree with the guy. Star Citizen and CIG are gonna flop. But Roberts and major associates, by definition, didn't. They made more money with this flop than any successful game that they could realize with their capacities.
Comments
Currently 2.4.0 offers lot of fun, and we're really in the good way to have a great game for the beginning of 2017, so I'm really enthusiast about the future of the game.
Emperor Roberts has no clothes.
Wise money waits to see an actual product before throwing their cash into this black hole of space.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
14:12 – ATV BTS: Character Pipeline
Have fun
Not at all. Why is it that you are side-stepping the obvious here? While I can appreciate the cultist nature that some may adhere to, at which point do you ask relevant questions? I mean there have been, what? A half dozen "integral cogs" which have left CIG and some have touted as "THE END!!!!", yet, there they are, still chugging along. Huh, wonder how that is? Come close and I'll let you in on a little secret........ It's because no one person is the cog which would blow the company apart. If that's the way that companies structured themselves, we would see companies falling apart all the time, like there would literally be fortune 500 companies just disappearing on a monthly basis. Surprisingly enough, someone already figured that part out, so any one person is not important enough to a company to kill it if they leave. I know that might seem like a crazy idea. Just think about it.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
Could you for once explain to us why is this individual so much important and why should we adhere to his views about SC ?
Is it because of his flawless game development record ? Is it because his in-depth knowledge about running complex projects like SC ? Is it about his personality and the manner he addresses people with different views than him ?
What or which is this particular perk or set of skills which elevated him so high in your regard to the point that whatever he states about a project he is not participating in it immediately gains the seal of truth ?
Does Blizzard, say, have better retention? Maybe, maybe not. Probably not that much different over time from other companies. For Legion they announced they were "doubling" the size of their WoW team to a whole 250. So they were down to 125. They let people go. Now letting people go isn't the same as retention - until you want the people back again. Companies truck on though.
Pretty sure I've never claimed one person leaving will "blow a company apart" but rather when you have a high rate of turnover in the upper management then you are going to have some issues. Everyone coming into the company will need to be brought up to speed regardless of their position but someone who is in charge of a department takes longer to train and having a temp lead isn't really ideal. Plus you will start getting a drop in morale if everyone keeps leaving. The other negative is anyone looking for a job will see a high turnover rate and start to wonder if there is a reason for that and will probably skip applying unless they are desperate.
How much faster would CIG be "chugging along" if they didn't have to find someone new to hire or appoint within the company and then bring them up to speed with how they want things to go and have them get comfortable in the position?
I agree that if there is a particularly high turnover rate within a company, that can be problematic. So what's CIGs turnover rate and how does that compare to the industry? This is what I meant, I tossed out Google and Amazon's turnover rates and these were dismissed. The fact of the matter is that we don't really know what their turnover rate is. What we DO know is that this particular person worked there for 2 1/2 years, which is 2.5 times what could be expected as an average turnover rate at many technology companies. So it's reasonable to expect that they are able to handle that level of turnover.
I never said you claimed anything. I said that some would claim. Some meaning there are some who want to blow every little thing up like the sky is falling, but it's generally placed within a vacuum and not compared to anything relevant outside of CIG, like compared against the industry or larger technology industry. The thinking is similar to that of doomsday prophets, that if we say something enough, statistically we'll be right at some point. That in mind, people tend to remember when people say something correctly rather than incorrectly. Take a look at the most recent doomsday prophecy that just passed. When was it? Oh yeah, I can't remember off the top of my head. I do remember that it was re-forecast for a later date, though, which also passed, lol. Fact is that there are hundreds of apocalyptic events which have been predicted, and we're still here. However, some day, someone will get something right and people will bow down to them like a god because they took a guess and guessed right.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
Don't think you want to get to gung ho over that last paragraph. Much of that 'bad prophecy' stuff can be equally laid at CR's feet. He struggles to accurately predict a deadline, despite being in the best position to do so. He has released videos of him not knowing or being able to play his own game. There's a nine month stretch where he continually claimed the next big feature release is just around the corner (next week! next month!). It then turns out to be unavailable til the game release. MVP. And so on. Roberts is his own worst enemy.
I guess at some point Roberts will have to guess correctly. Will people bow down to him like a god because he finally chose right? 'Cause Squadron 42 is certainly looking likely to miss its 2016 deadline.
As for the turnover issue, the glass half full view is that it is standard for the industry. The glass half empty is that the new folks get in, see the incompetence, and find themselves another job as quick as they are able, so as not to be tied to the eventual disaster.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
SC is still very early in development and it needs a strong managing force behind it to keep the teams focused and on task. No we don't know what the turnover rate is like at CIG but I would hazard a guess it's slowly creeping up and this would be at the bottom of the ladder as well.
Im gonna have to disagree on your people remembering when someone is right. People, in my opinion, tend to remember the times you were wrong a lot better than when you were right. Chris someday might actually gave a date and he could be right but by that point most people won't believe him and when it does turn out to be true most will still remember him as someone not to be trusted with release dates. People tend to remember the negative but I know gamers love to remember the negative things lol
His "information from insider sources" has proven false time and time again. Basically he is guessing. And ranting.
And CIG ignores him for many months now. Which IMHO is a good thing.
Have fun
My guess is that Erillion is his source
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
My biggest complaint as well. The MMO stuff is boring, would much rather see some updates about SQ42.
No leaks .... including no info from the imaginary "insider source" named by our regular nutjob. His claim of no completed levels for SQ42 has been directly debunked by a CIG developer that HAS completed levels for SQ42 and told him so publically. This developer has first been called highly competent by our ever faithful nutjob up until the time he contradicted him ... then the developer was vilified and threatened with a whole accusing blog about him as punishment for his hubris. "Thou shall not debunk THE MIGHTY D-FACE !"
Have fun
I think that you're pretty naive to believe that the work at Google and Amazon is done and they are in maintenance mode. Google, especially, is constantly introducing new products and services in order to improve their capitalization on their advertising. Believing that a Director is any less important when a product is in maintenance, is crazy. Why would anyone spend big bucks to maintain this position if it's unnecessary, as you're asserting? Honestly, it's a little hilarious that you believe that when a product is in development the manager is the one steering the ship. That's simply not the way things work. There are clear, well-defined plans of action. There are heaps of documents detailing who the software will perform, what would be nice to have, and how it should be executed. These documents are in place for the very reason that you don't want someone walking out of the building one day, and there goes your entire product. The rudder is in the paperwork, not the person. The person is simply there to lead the cadence, to get you to row harder and longer, to finish first and with the best quality. That isn't to say these are unimportant qualities, but they have zero impact on what's being done. Nobody will be "lost" if their director were to leave today. They know what needs to be done. In fact, that goes for just about any business, software or otherwise. I'm honestly questioning why you feel that way. What field is it that you work in that a director leaving would leave you rudderless?
Also, it seems like they have reasonable stability in their technical positions. Going through LinkedIn quickly, took the time with CIG of current employees in a technical position (managerial or not) and the average tenure is nearly 2 years, 1.8 years to be exact, or about 1 year 10 months. Granted, the sample size was only about 10% of all their listings on LinkedIn, but it's all LinkedIn would let me have
Honestly, there's no real evidence that there is any increase in turnover rate. There's no evidence that they are hemorrhaging employees or even managers. The mix of users that I came across had someone as critical as an engine programmer who has been there for 3 months and someone as senior as a technical director who has been there for over 3 years.
On a final note, so you believe that people remember when you're wrong and they won't believe CR even when he does give a date. So, why, may I ask, would you then believe anything that DS has to say. At this point, hasn't he given 4 or 5 different "ELE" dates? Dates that have come and gone? Yet, people still seem to take everything he says as gospel.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
Why feel sorry for people? I backed Hex, played it once in Beta and never played it again. I backed Shards and have never picked it up. I backed Grim Dawn and just started playing it now. I backed SC and have only ever logged into my hanger. Maybe you feel sorry because you believe that peoples expectations are higher than what they are.
I rarely hear backers of crowdfunding arguing that their expectations are any more than the hope for something better, a donation to a cause. It's usually the detractors, those who swear off ever backing any sort of crowdfunding, who want to label it as an investment or a pre-order. So while you may feel people are being ripped off, it's probably just the perspective from your side of the fence.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
You might want to read the part where I mention that these things are collected into documentation, not imagined in someone's head, meaning their existence at the company is to lead, a skill which is easily transitioned. The vision has already been set (and reset a number of times), so a Manager leaving is very inconsequential to the final product at this point.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
08:46 – ATV BTS: Female Character
Have fun
Have fun
I agree with the guy. Star Citizen and CIG are gonna flop. But Roberts and major associates, by definition, didn't. They made more money with this flop than any successful game that they could realize with their capacities.