EVE Online has No Problem Getting New Players, but Retaining them is an Issue

135

Comments

  • KyleranKyleran Paradise City, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 26,668
    Recore said:
    Eve was always just a small niche game. 

    Nothing to see here. 
    Nothing....except the best virtual universe ever created......

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    On hiatus from EVE Online since Dec 2016 - CCP continues to wander aimlessly

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon




  • RIG4REDRIG4RED Seattle, WAMember UncommonPosts: 55
    I started playing in 2006. Just recently I introduced a friend to the game and metaphorically dropped him into the universe: like a mouse in a cobra cage. I told him the game was complicated and to follow the tutorial.

    "For science," I told him, "I can't help you. But I will obverse and record your actions. Give it a week, then we can play together."

    He was disco rokh'd 2 hours into the game.

    He hasn't logged back in.
  • hfztthfztt GlostrupMember RarePosts: 1,250

    The reasons for EVE's inability to retain players are in your face all over web, and have been repeated time and time again ad nauseum for the past decade, since the game's initial release.  Without going into detail to avoid offending its very loyal player base, it's not only a niche OWPvP audience, it's a very unforgiving and toxic one at that, to put it mildly.   I find it very hard to believe that the obvious has people in high places at EVE Headquarters scratching their heads in bewilderment.  It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why this game can't retain players.  It's a cesspool of the worst in niche gaming, and the resultant community it breeds, all piled into one very neatly packaged game.
    Except the EVE community is one of the most helpfull, dedicated & thoughtfull communitites out there.

    I have been in the first 20 corps just picked at random, when I wanted to switch corp. None of them have been toxic nor cesspool. If you have experinced that, I think you should stort looking inwards instead of lashing out.
  • RIG4REDRIG4RED Seattle, WAMember UncommonPosts: 55
    hfztt said:

    The reasons for EVE's inability to retain players are in your face all over web, and have been repeated time and time again ad nauseum for the past decade, since the game's initial release.  Without going into detail to avoid offending its very loyal player base, it's not only a niche OWPvP audience, it's a very unforgiving and toxic one at that, to put it mildly.   I find it very hard to believe that the obvious has people in high places at EVE Headquarters scratching their heads in bewilderment.  It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why this game can't retain players.  It's a cesspool of the worst in niche gaming, and the resultant community it breeds, all piled into one very neatly packaged game.
    Except the EVE community is one of the most helpfull, dedicated & thoughtfull communitites out there.

    I have been in the first 20 corps just picked at random, when I wanted to switch corp. None of them have been toxic nor cesspool. If you have experinced that, I think you should stort looking inwards instead of lashing out.
    Agreed.

    The EVE community is amazing; a paradigm all games should hope mirror. 

    hfztt if you're looking for toxic, may I suggest you play a ranked game of League of Legends. Google "loltyler1". He is (was?) a player who exemplifies the toxicity of League of Legends and is an ambassador for all dastardly players.
  • NokksonwoodNokksonwood Member UncommonPosts: 91
    edited May 2016
    Impsy said:
    Game is so boring

    I agree, you see some really nice vids with OTT drama battles raging. I found the game to be really dull ;(


    Although I wasn't bothered too much when playing, you can tell  by the forums that a lot of dicks play this game and take it far too seriously ;). Just like WOW, the real pop is incredibly low and so many people have multiple accounts.

    This game does not have any real competition. I feel it's in a similar position to how UO was before EQ, AC & DAOC hit.
    Post edited by Nokksonwood on
  • RenoakuRenoaku Member RarePosts: 2,361
    edited May 2016
    I think part of the problem is how the game works so many game mechanics a player is punished who plays the game because you have to pay extra money to have dual character training on a single account, or  buy a new account / alts etc...

    One of the biggest problems with EVE is how you can only train one character at a time lets say a new person wants to worm-hole and gets into a worm-hole after training up just enough to be able to do this...

    That user has to make multiple accounts to keep worm-hole and or mining solo / playing the game.

    A Combat pilot usually has characters and toons for hauling, mission running, etc.

    So to train each character a user has to pay individual accounts at $14.95 a month if not paid yearly, or pay for multiple character training with real money or in game cash...

    I think over-all this is what turns people away from EVE some-what, now I agree a well organized corp like the big groups of combat pilots and pvpers and so on which do constant pvp's, roam etc.... Then its not so bad because generally you have..

    . Organized SRP
    . Stations out in Null
    . All your assets are in corp so you lose a ship you just get another and fight.

    But to become part of these corps its not so easy from my understanding, so basically you have to even train up, get trust worthy to even get into such a corp...

    These days you can however just Pay 2 Win for Skill point injectors on a new character and train up really fast for a combat pilot.

    Compare EVE to Dark Fall, this is why other games seem more popular at keeping newer players for longer. Dark Fall for example, 
    You lose all your gear, but you can do all training on a single character, things aren't as complicated and such as EVE Online.
    Post edited by Renoaku on
  • Sid_ViciousSid_Vicious Portland, ORMember UncommonPosts: 2,032
    The gameplay just seems slow... everything takes so much time.... its ridiculous that its even possible to play 6 accounts at once, that says something right there. Am I really playing the game or just making commands and watching and waiting?

    NEWS FLASH! A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore Darkfall Online player and knew just what to do.

    Watch me play Darkfall and sometimes PVP in other MMORPGs on Twitch.

    Darkfall has launched!!! MAY 5th!! Join before its too late!

    Follow my RP blog here: http://riseofagon.blogspot.com/



  • MukeMuke Member RarePosts: 2,610
    The gameplay just seems slow... everything takes so much time.... its ridiculous that its even possible to play 6 accounts at once, that says something right there. Am I really playing the game or just making commands and watching and waiting?
    If you play the game slow, it seems slow, if you want a game where you get everything asap: play a game like WoW.

    It is a 100% sandbox, you get out what you put into it. The devs won't take your hand and tell you what to do.
    If you let others tell you what to do, it's because you let them.
    If you think the game is boring, it is because you make it like that.

    Total freedom can be frightening.

    "going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

  • KyleranKyleran Paradise City, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 26,668
    The gameplay just seems slow... everything takes so much time.... its ridiculous that its even possible to play 6 accounts at once, that says something right there. Am I really playing the game or just making commands and watching and waiting?
    Only miners really play 6 accounts at a time, because yes, its pretty slow and in my case often ine account has to di nothing but sit still and provide boosts, another hauls ore back and forth to storage while 4 continuously mine ore. More active PVE activities such a mission running let me use 3 ships effectively, but really active, high level PVE such Incursion running or Sleeper fighting in worm holes were single ship affairs. PVP is normally a solo affair as well unless providing a booster ship, used to be off grid so possible to do 2, but they are (or have already) changing this so boosters must stay with the fleet so again, one ship is really all that is possible. When I played DAOC 12 years ago I had 5 accounts. One buff bot would always be out, one or two crafters in cities working their trade, one primary PVP character, and if solo PVEing, a heal bot trailing along. Some games are just designed for this, modern MMOs not quite so much so I basically ceased doing it but then again, I've never played any more than a month or 3.

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    On hiatus from EVE Online since Dec 2016 - CCP continues to wander aimlessly

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon




  • Abuz0rAbuz0r Lexington, KYMember UncommonPosts: 550
    When I got on eve, I felt like the sole minnow introduced to a beautiful pond with the largest, hungriest overgrown large-mouth bass and rock-bass you had ever seen.  The pond was so wonderful and beautiful, but I kept getting eaten over and over as these enormous fish gobbled me up every time I encountered one.  The game really wanted to be fun, but all these veteran players running around with 10 years worth of accumulation seemed to almost have a sexual stimulation reaction to seeing a beginner stumble out side high sec space. 
  • Mors.MagneMors.Magne LondonMember UncommonPosts: 1,545
    edited May 2016
    The problem is extremely easy to identify:

    The vast majority of the profit that CCP makes from Eve goes to the development of other games. For example, Valkyrie.

    I think it was about 2009 when CCP sacked the development team that was working on 'Walking in Stations'. Then that happened, CCP stated that there were going to be no more significant changes to Eve.

    Today, Eve is competing with games that have space and planetary surfaces.

    Star Citizen and No Man's Sky will make Eve even more unpopular.

    If you think otherwise, you are seriously in denial.

    Personally, I am extremely angry and frustrated by this situation. Prior to CCP's 2009 announcement, I had invested a considerable amount of time into Eve.

    From 2004 - 2014, Eve was pretty much the ultimate sci fi MMORPG.

    The announcement in 2009, was probably the reason that Elite Dangerous and Star Citizen began development - all these dates co-incide.

    CCP left a wide open goal. The developers of Elite Dangerous and Star Citizen are clever people - they saw an opportunity and they took it.
    Post edited by Mors.Magne on
  • kb4blukb4blu Fuquay Varina, NCMember UncommonPosts: 710
    First off I play EVE and like any game it has its good and bad points.  

    I think the biggest problem EVE has is that they seem to only listen to a select group of players and that group is about as conservative as you can get.  Any change that they don't like causes the EVE forum to explode.

    If they make it easier for new players to get started you will hear howls about Carebears, Eve is giving in to casuals and so on.  

    I would like to see EVE grow but the current player base will make sure that it does not happen.


  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 10,888
    edited May 2016
    kb4blu said:
    First off I play EVE and like any game it has its good and bad points.  

    I think the biggest problem EVE has is that they seem to only listen to a select group of players and that group is about as conservative as you can get.  Any change that they don't like causes the EVE forum to explode.

    If they make it easier for new players to get started you will hear howls about Carebears, Eve is giving in to casuals and so on.  

    I would like to see EVE grow but the current player base will make sure that it does not happen.
    Do not blame the playerbase. Even elitists jerks have their right to voice their concerns but CCP is still the developer and anything happening with the development falls on their shoulders.

    Everything about the game these days are just some random, individual itterations lacking any coherence and aim.

    Imo, no. 1 problem with EVE is that there is no vision and seems like company is lacking any sort of leadership/management.
    Post edited by Gdemami on
  • MukeMuke Member RarePosts: 2,610


    From 2004 - 2014, Eve was pretty much the ultimate sci fi MMORPG.

    The announcement in 2009, was probably the reason that Elite Dangerous and Star Citizen began development - all these dates co-incide.

    CCP left a wide open goal. The developers of Elite Dangerous and Star Citizen are clever people - they saw an opportunity and they took it.

    Elite Dangerous is hardly a multiplayer game. 90% play singleplayer mode.
    "It's nothing more then buy stuff, undock, go to system B, dock, sell."
    And yes, I played it because I was a HUGE fan of the old Elite on my old C64. And this game is barren from any meaningful content. Looks great, has promise, but needs content DESPERATELY.

    The game is barely alive and till today still feels like a game in development. Not without reason why so many players don't buy that expansion, it's nothing more then riding on a surface in a buggy.



    Star Citizen is not even released, it's many years from actual release. IF it actual gets released as a online game.
    It's just a bunch of modules, not even completed. the same racetrack for like a year now, the same station to walk in for a bit. They got a shop now, wow. Adding to that it is not a MMO, just multiplayer and with instances followed by a "by this ship for only $150" mail spam.
    Looking at their funds it is shocking how little progress they have made in all that time. Sympathies to the financial backers.


    You can not compare EVE to SC-Elite.
    Not one of these games are in the same category.



    "going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

  • TaiphozTaiphoz IrvineMember UncommonPosts: 344
    I am actually thinking of going back, I have played a few times and the reason I quit all three times was the same, failure to get into an active corp, the last time I played I managed to find a small corp that would take me, and for a few months it was really good, right up until a spy revealed himself to us, he had been in corp almost as long as me and systematically working his evil at dismantling the corp from the inside, by the time I and the corp leader figured him out it was far to late, people left game as a result, "how are you supposed to make friends and gel as a team when some fuckwit is lying through his ass and ruining everything we do" was the exiting comment from one of them.

    Eventually after a week of loggin in and finding no one else online it was obvious they were not coming back to the game so not wanting to put myself through the shit'e of finding another corp again I just gave in as well.

    So for me the Tutorial was not the issue, it's the insande level of or lack of trust corps have in new players, whats a new player supposed to do when their new, dont know any better and yet get treated like a spy every single time they apply some where, not to mention the corps who get it wrong, let some one join only to rip them off and wreck them because they wrongly think the person is s a spy..

    I also think small new corps need something in the game to be able to reach as a goal, most see null sec and owning space as the end game but thats almost impossible for a new corp, I would personally like to see something in game for the new / mid players something they can strive for but ultimatly use as a stepping stone into null sec.

    The one thing I would change with the starting game and the tutorial is I would have it push the player into a low level pvp faction v faction system , something like a pvp battle ground where new players in their shitty littile fitted ships can jump through a wormhole into a wormhole system where the factions are fighting to hold some stations, with it being tiered to keep out players in ships that don't belong there, this would give new players a place to get to grips with relativly fair PvP with people in their own level of ships and SP, it would also get them used to losing their ship while not having it be a total shock to their system.

    It's something I wanted to suggest and still might the next time I sub to EvE which I might be doing in a weeks time, on that note I will be looking for a corp, only hope I don't have as hard a time this go around.

  • howstupidisthishowstupidisthis Member UncommonPosts: 147
    edited May 2016
    EVE will keep getting new players until a true space sim is created, hopefully Star Citizen will be the one.

    The space genre has barely been scratched, there are a ton of players looking for them, as proof by the constant flow of new players into EVE.

    The devs gave into the PvP crowd in EVE and they didn't address the many exploits that allowed griefing on a grand scale, otherwise EVE would be as big as WoW.
    Post edited by howstupidisthis on
  • NorseGodNorseGod My Bunker, MTMember UncommonPosts: 1,133
    I love EVE.

    I don't have time anymore to play the way I want to. But I'll be a bigger man and accept it and not make demands to dumb it down like others do.

    I almost subbed recently just because of the war going on. Seriously, no other game can do that.
  • HarikenHariken Brighton, MAMember RarePosts: 1,715
    Hrimnir said:

    It's extremely simple.  Getting blown up and losing all your shit is not player friendly.  This is the main reason why FFA PVP games have such small playerbases.  Eve's playerbase looks high but the reality is it's a ton of people with multiple accounts.  That's not to downplay it's success, it is definitely a good model for it's style of game, but it's never going to achieve mainstream success while it is that punishing.

    BTW I say this as a player with around 25mil sp, I though I quit several years ago (shortly after the wormhole expansion, can't remember which one).

    Its so funny how game devs for this game don't get this. And yeah the fanboys of this game would love to have people believe millions of people love this game. Its s freaking joke. Everyone one that i knew that used to play this game had many accounts logged in at the same dam time. And the community has just got worse over the years. I played this game around 2003 i have a character in this game sitting on a billion isk because i was a ship builder. The problem of this game is its just filled with ahole players that have been around forever and they are way above helping any new players no matter what crap they post here saying new players get help. Its a flat out lie. And the game devs have no one to blame but their selves the community is like this. All the crap they let players get away over the years is finally catching up to them.
  • Solar_ProphetSolar_Prophet Columbus, OHMember RarePosts: 1,708
    RIG4RED said:
    hfztt said:

    The reasons for EVE's inability to retain players are in your face all over web, and have been repeated time and time again ad nauseum for the past decade, since the game's initial release.  Without going into detail to avoid offending its very loyal player base, it's not only a niche OWPvP audience, it's a very unforgiving and toxic one at that, to put it mildly.   I find it very hard to believe that the obvious has people in high places at EVE Headquarters scratching their heads in bewilderment.  It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why this game can't retain players.  It's a cesspool of the worst in niche gaming, and the resultant community it breeds, all piled into one very neatly packaged game.
    Except the EVE community is one of the most helpfull, dedicated & thoughtfull communitites out there.

    I have been in the first 20 corps just picked at random, when I wanted to switch corp. None of them have been toxic nor cesspool. If you have experinced that, I think you should stort looking inwards instead of lashing out.
    Agreed.

    The EVE community is amazing; a paradigm all games should hope mirror. 

    hfztt if you're looking for toxic, may I suggest you play a ranked game of League of Legends. Google "loltyler1". He is (was?) a player who exemplifies the toxicity of League of Legends and is an ambassador for all dastardly players.
    No. EVE's community is the scum of the internet. They are not helpful, they are not friendly, and they will take any and every chance to blow you up or screw you over. Just the fact that you people immediately start blaming the victim the very second he says something negative about EVE's community just proves his point. 

    People aren't sticking around in a game where newbies are constantly preyed upon and blown up or scammed by assholes trying to get their rocks off? A game where people are psychologically tortured and told to kill themselves, or worse? Yeah, imagine that. 

    EVE's existence is desirable though because it tends to attract a good deal of the scum away from other games. I can't imagine how bad other PVP MMOs and / or online games might get if it weren't for EVE. 

    I played the game on and off for half a decade. The word 'scum' is too good for 90% of EVE's community. 

    AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!


    We are born of the blood. Made men by the blood. Undone by the blood. Our eyes are yet to open. FEAR THE OLD BLOOD. 


  • MrMelGibsonMrMelGibson USAMember EpicPosts: 2,269
    edited May 2016
    Muke said:
    The gameplay just seems slow... everything takes so much time.... its ridiculous that its even possible to play 6 accounts at once, that says something right there. Am I really playing the game or just making commands and watching and waiting?
    If you play the game slow, it seems slow, if you want a game where you get everything asap: play a game like WoW.

    It is a 100% sandbox, you get out what you put into it. The devs won't take your hand and tell you what to do.
    If you let others tell you what to do, it's because you let them.
    If you think the game is boring, it is because you make it like that.

    Total freedom can be frightening.
    Or you know, he just finds the game boring.  No need for your complicated reason.  Not every game is for everyone.  Shocking I know.
    Post edited by MrMelGibson on
  • JunglecharlyJunglecharly AthensMember UncommonPosts: 63
    Gdemami said:
    Kyleran said:
    I agree, most folks aren't interested in losing their
    their stuff which is why CCP needs to focus on making sure newer players can easily manage their level of risk, something I feel they've lost sight of the past year or so.
    Are you kidding? Making ISK for new players is ridiculously easy.

    I end up with 3B ISK on my last trial account...
     How did you make 3B isk on a trial account?
  • VelifaxVelifax Ogden, UTMember UncommonPosts: 377
    PROS

    I loved the setbacks, or rather avoiding them, as I haven't really lost more than 25% of my total ISK (got stupid with a gank).
    I loved the research required, still spend a third of my game time learning.
    I love the combat and gameplay, I've got plenty of action games elsewhere, this game really scratches an itch for me.

    NEUTRALS
    Walking in Stations was actually pretty decent, imo. Lots of low hanging fruit here but I think it added a lot. 
    As noted by OP, the PVE was a tad stale; I'd have been happy for years but I can see several low hanging opportunities that would majorly spice it up.
    The economy was pretty awesome; maybe too awesome actually! I would actually prefer to dumb it down a bit, something like a town management game or an economic simulator like the X games would be better for me. If I am studying price index or market share nonsense, I'd rather be making real money :)

    CONS
    Unfortunately, I'm not a fan of PVP in any medium; market, combat, or meta.
    I have no intention of paying more than $15 a month, and didn't like how much value you got for additional accounts.
    The OP also mentions that Gates segregate gameplay into little room, and this bothered me as well. I play two other space games... Make that four... All of which feature vast tracts of space. It is key to me.
    The way I play didn't generate enough risk, surprisingly. The amount of research I enjoy made pve too easy, I suspect I'd prefer if low sec was the highest security space available. I'd need roaming bands of 
    npcs.
    I don't do the "people" thing, and much of the game pushes you toward that.

    Ultimately it'd be my only subscription MMO, if I still played games.

  • vonryan123vonryan123 Not home, MIMember UncommonPosts: 248
    until they put a stop to the non stop gankfest that has become this game it will never hold newer players. I played 9 years before I just stopped...I have seen the d-bag factor go up 100 fold in the last 2 years...eve has always had a harsh community but now its just flat out nasty....."back in my day" if you were a tool in eve for no reason most people black balled you or hunted you now its the norm and most people that have played a long time quit....of the 150 plus people I know from 07 maybe 2-3 still play they have all quit due to the games community just going to straight poo (most of them anyway).

     just my 2 cents not yours, you don't have to agree

    image
  • RobsolfRobsolf Grand Rapids, MIMember UncommonPosts: 4,428

    As for the "It's super depressing" quote she started with? Nordgren supplemented it with an understanding that EVE isn't necessarily for everyone, and even the people who appreciate it might not have a life-long relationship with it. 



    I'm one of those that appreciate it but don't have a life long relationship with it.  I've played it on and off since about 2008.  Lately much more off than on.

    I think they're on the right track regarding getting that emotional connection as early as possible.  But in the end, the game has always been a tiny niche game.  What they have is probably all they're going to get, and that's nothing to be down about.  Their best bet is to entice ex players, IMO.

    The other thing is, while this game has player driven events in a scale that isn't even close to being had in other MMO's, participation in those events is nowhere near the experience it's cracked up to be.  Often times it's waiting... waiting... waiting... and more waiting.  It's not the fault of the game; that's just the way things happen(or don't).
  • lowradslowrads Member UncommonPosts: 200
    The game itself is fairly simplistic.  However, having goals and pursuing them is usually a frustrating experience for most players.  It has always had the potential to be a really great game, and I've played off and on for a silly amount of time because of this, but I could not in good conscience recommend it to anyone who wanted interesting and significant conflict with other groups of players.  If you just like flinging sand and don't really care who the target is, then it's mostly fine.
Sign In or Register to comment.