The only thing I found that mmorpg did better was the group/dungeon experience. Problem is that themepark mmorpg basically constructed them the exact same way, tank/healer/2-3 dps, same sort of abilities, same sort of opponents, same sort of loot in different skins and at one point it all felt like a repetition of all other mmorpg's. To make matters worse they took what used to be an adventure and made it into a 30-60 minute repetitive loot trip.
With the right people mmorpg's can still be fun though. Its just a shame that devs make such efforts to make it so you don't play with others.
Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
I thought about this and... honestly I can say nothing. Maybe crafting systems could be. Most aspects of RPG gaming are corrupted in my opinion to make up for latency and grind/time sink.
What used to be fun to me with MMORPG was the unpredictable factor other players brought. Logging on to see what good and bad another player would bring my way. Now you can guess the general experience of an MMORPG never having played it. They're pretty sterile and streamlined solo experience. Just that experience isn't that great.
What do you think MMORPG do better than other genre?
Massive player social interactions should be the answer here.
But the real answer at this point is Cash Shops. The "keep up with the Joneses" and "need for greed" mixed with "massively" is quite a potent brew that can't be done outside of MMO's, and can't be fully appreciated without "RPG".
I thought about this and... honestly I can say nothing. Maybe crafting systems could be. Most aspects of RPG gaming are corrupted in my opinion to make up for latency and grind/time sink.
What used to be fun to me with MMORPG was the unpredictable factor other players brought. Logging on to see what good and bad another player would bring my way. Now you can guess the general experience of an MMORPG never having played it. They're pretty sterile and streamlined solo experience. Just that experience isn't that great.
What do you think MMORPG do better than other genre?
Massive player social interactions should be the answer here.
But the real answer at this point is Cash Shops. The "keep up with the Joneses" and "need for greed" mixed with "massively" is quite a potent brew that can't be done outside of MMO's, and can't be fully appreciated without "RPG".
You totally nailed it. Their greatest strength, encouraging frequent interaction with other players, both good and bad has largely been stripped out of them, leaving hollow shells behind that excel at almost nothing.
As for cash shops, I agree they've done a fabulous job separating players from their money.
Sure MOBAs make more overall, but reports are it is due to many players spending small amounts of money somewhat regularly.
MMOs have cornered the market on fleecing whales, no other genre even comes close, with SC being the crown jewel, over $100M collected, and they are still years from delivering a playable game.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Socialization, economy, and that's pretty much it. I would say MMOs as a genre are 5 years behind every other genre of game (except, ARPG, which is oddly stuck in mediocrity mode.)
... creating bitter veterans who want old designs instead of innovation and new ideas?
There is a lot of innovation and new ideas, but they are all garbage.
one man's garbage is another man's treasure.
You don't like the way the genre is changing does not mean much. Obviously enough people like it.
Then how come they aren't being made anymore? I think the obvious that those "innovative ideas" aren't doing well enough. Either they have gone back to the drawing board or MMORPG have been abandoned.
Then how come they aren't being made anymore? I think the obvious that those "innovative ideas" aren't doing well enough. Either they have gone back to the drawing board or MMORPG have been abandoned.
what do you mean .. mmorpgs have already evolved into other style of MMOs like The Division, which uses a lot of the existing mmorpgs innovations like instances.
The classical mmorpgs are certainly abandoned, but it does not mean that the genre does not keep evolving.
Then how come they aren't being made anymore? I think the obvious that those "innovative ideas" aren't doing well enough. Either they have gone back to the drawing board or MMORPG have been abandoned.
what do you mean .. mmorpgs have already evolved into other style of MMOs like The Division, which uses a lot of the existing mmorpgs innovations like instances.
The classical mmorpgs are certainly abandoned, but it does not mean that the genre does not keep evolving.
It's not evolution if the "genre" of virtual world MMORPGS dies out due a continual barrage of mediocre products.
It's an extinction event.
Cmon who wouldn't like to see the return of the "dinosaurs" as in the Jurassic park movies?
But a better movie analogy would be Planet of the Apes where humanity (as well as MMORPGS you could say) lost their dominance from self inflicted dumbing down of the species (genre)
The apes were pretty happy with the situation, but the remaining humans who remember the better days, not so much. Same with MMORPGs today.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Then how come they aren't being made anymore? I think the obvious that those "innovative ideas" aren't doing well enough. Either they have gone back to the drawing board or MMORPG have been abandoned.
what do you mean .. mmorpgs have already evolved into other style of MMOs like The Division, which uses a lot of the existing mmorpgs innovations like instances.
The classical mmorpgs are certainly abandoned, but it does not mean that the genre does not keep evolving.
Are instances evolution or devolution? I mean, in regards to "Massively Multiplayer" gaming?
Then how come they aren't being made anymore? I think the obvious that those "innovative ideas" aren't doing well enough. Either they have gone back to the drawing board or MMORPG have been abandoned.
what do you mean .. mmorpgs have already evolved into other style of MMOs like The Division, which uses a lot of the existing mmorpgs innovations like instances.
The classical mmorpgs are certainly abandoned, but it does not mean that the genre does not keep evolving.
Are instances evolution or devolution? I mean, in regards to "Massively Multiplayer" gaming?
I would say turning into fancy coop games would be a devolution. It will mean essentially that MMORPG are dead. The analogy I put forth before is that you try to make a motorcycle appeal to car drivers. It goes so far to appease to the point that you basically are making an awkward car.
I do believe MMORPG will live but the WoW branch is going to become coop games. Another attempt at virtual persistent worlds will come down the line. Its just a slow industry. I think right now only indie developers are announcing because they need the funds.
I thought about this and... honestly I can say nothing. Maybe crafting systems could be. Most aspects of RPG gaming are corrupted in my opinion to make up for latency and grind/time sink.
What used to be fun to me with MMORPG was the unpredictable factor other players brought. Logging on to see what good and bad another player would bring my way. Now you can guess the general experience of an MMORPG never having played it. They're pretty sterile and streamlined solo experience. Just that experience isn't that great.
What do you think MMORPG do better than other genre?
I'll just answer your question with this ...
If that were really true then why do PvP-centric players waste their time playing MMORPGs that feature PvP done poorly, instead of playing FPSs or MOBAs that revolve around PvP done well?
With that said, what MMORPGs offer can only be understood by players that understand what the RPG in MMORPG stands for. If you are not the type of player who finds value in role playing or immersing oneself in a virtual world, then you won't understand that which MMORPGs do better than any other genre.
There is a lot more to MMORPGs than you, or anyone agreeing with you, is giving them credit for. You simply will not understand what that is, however, if you are not of that mindset.
Socialization, economy, and long term character development in cooperation with others, which leads to all kinds of emergent gameplay. Everything else is on rails which leads to consuming content and not much more.
Currently not much because the golden age of WoW, Darkfall, and Eve Online is over (2004 - 2008).
However, I believe that Oculus Rift will be a game changer when head tracking is good enough - hopefully this Summer. Then, MMORPGs compatible with Oculus Rift could be the games and Facebook for the future.
Then how come they aren't being made anymore? I think the obvious that those "innovative ideas" aren't doing well enough. Either they have gone back to the drawing board or MMORPG have been abandoned.
what do you mean .. mmorpgs have already evolved into other style of MMOs like The Division, which uses a lot of the existing mmorpgs innovations like instances.
The classical mmorpgs are certainly abandoned, but it does not mean that the genre does not keep evolving.
Are instances evolution or devolution? I mean, in regards to "Massively Multiplayer" gaming?
Depends on whether you like it or not. Given that it has become a standard feature, I would argue that many players fill that it is an evolution.
MMO is no longer about "massively MP" gaming. Don't tell me you do not know that.
As others have admitted, I can think of nothing an mmorpg does that other games don't, beyond the MMO aspect.
Although one poster mentioned amount of content, that seems feasible... I've certainly never sunk 6000 hours into any single player game. Although there is zero reason why I couldn't.
Its too bad alot of you didnt get to see the genre back in its heyday.....UO wasnt my cup of tea but EQ was...When I first started there were few quests, no directions, just thrown into an unknown world without a clue...it was great...Other players often offered to help, leveling wasnt that important, and it was really a nice social experience......IT only lasted a few years though and once WoW came around the genre was doomed.
Then how come they aren't being made anymore? I think the obvious that those "innovative ideas" aren't doing well enough. Either they have gone back to the drawing board or MMORPG have been abandoned.
what do you mean .. mmorpgs have already evolved into other style of MMOs like The Division, which uses a lot of the existing mmorpgs innovations like instances.
The classical mmorpgs are certainly abandoned, but it does not mean that the genre does not keep evolving.
Are instances evolution or devolution? I mean, in regards to "Massively Multiplayer" gaming?
Depends on whether you like it or not. Given that it has become a standard feature, I would argue that many players fill that it is an evolution.
MMO is no longer about "massively MP" gaming. Don't tell me you do not know that.
Whether you like it or not is irrelevant when you're talking about how it relates to Massively Multiplayer. It may make for a great game (if you like it), but that's no different than saying a Single Player game with Multiplayer capability is great. As an MMO, instances are a devolution from Massively Multiplayer back towards Single Player.
Of course MMO's, disregarding the meaning pf "massively" as is done by your industry, have turned away from "massively" in game design. We all know that. We've been talking about that, as I'm sure you have noticed. Your industry seems to be very reluctant to produce anything "massively" multiplayer anymore. And your industry hasn't left us with any choices in this regard.
Then how come they aren't being made anymore? I think the obvious that those "innovative ideas" aren't doing well enough. Either they have gone back to the drawing board or MMORPG have been abandoned.
what do you mean .. mmorpgs have already evolved into other style of MMOs like The Division, which uses a lot of the existing mmorpgs innovations like instances.
The classical mmorpgs are certainly abandoned, but it does not mean that the genre does not keep evolving.
Are instances evolution or devolution? I mean, in regards to "Massively Multiplayer" gaming?
Depends on whether you like it or not. Given that it has become a standard feature, I would argue that many players fill that it is an evolution.
MMO is no longer about "massively MP" gaming. Don't tell me you do not know that.
Whether you like it or not is irrelevant when you're talking about how it relates to Massively Multiplayer. It may make for a great game (if you like it), but that's no different than saying a Single Player game with Multiplayer capability is great. As an MMO, instances are a devolution from Massively Multiplayer back towards Single Player.
Of course MMO's, disregarding the meaning pf "massively" as is done by your industry, have turned away from "massively" in game design. We all know that. We've been talking about that, as I'm sure you have noticed. Your industry seems to be very reluctant to produce anything "massively" multiplayer anymore. And your industry hasn't left us with any choices in this regard.
I disagree. Instances are an opportunity to create intimate group experiences, which is a great boon to community building and guild relationships.
Of course MMO's, disregarding the meaning pf "massively" as is done by your industry, have turned away from "massively" in game design. We all know that. We've been talking about that, as I'm sure you have noticed. Your industry seems to be very reluctant to produce anything "massively" multiplayer anymore. And your industry hasn't left us with any choices in this regard.
all true. And?
It is not "me" that turns the industry away from "massively MP". It is simply an experiment that does not resonate with the marketplace. Players simply prefer instanced, small group co-op, or instanced "fair" pvp games.
And the industry evolves to meet that preference. If the industry just quit MMOs, and call all these games something else, you won't even be objecting here. The only issue here is that they opt to keep using the label MMO, which is clearly not exclusive to massively MP games anymore.
Niche preferences indeed have fewer choices. But that is just the nature of markets. I love locked room mysteries, which is a niche .. but you don't see me cry over it. There are simply too many other good entertainment options for me to shed tears over some niche that i may like.
I disagree. Instances are an opportunity to create intimate group experiences, which is a great boon to community building and guild relationships.
Yeh .. and you can even do that in games without public zones. Hence, massively MP gameplay is really not essentially to good group experiences. Heck, lots of online games have communities & guilds, not just MMOS.
Comments
With the right people mmorpg's can still be fun though. Its just a shame that devs make such efforts to make it so you don't play with others.
But the real answer at this point is Cash Shops.
The "keep up with the Joneses" and "need for greed" mixed with "massively" is quite a potent brew that can't be done outside of MMO's, and can't be fully appreciated without "RPG".
Once upon a time....
As for cash shops, I agree they've done a fabulous job separating players from their money.
Sure MOBAs make more overall, but reports are it is due to many players spending small amounts of money somewhat regularly.
MMOs have cornered the market on fleecing whales, no other genre even comes close, with SC being the crown jewel, over $100M collected, and they are still years from delivering a playable game.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
You don't like the way the genre is changing does not mean much. Obviously enough people like it.
The classical mmorpgs are certainly abandoned, but it does not mean that the genre does not keep evolving.
It's an extinction event.
Cmon who wouldn't like to see the return of the "dinosaurs" as in the Jurassic park movies?
But a better movie analogy would be Planet of the Apes where humanity (as well as MMORPGS you could say) lost their dominance from self inflicted dumbing down of the species (genre)
The apes were pretty happy with the situation, but the remaining humans who remember the better days, not so much. Same with MMORPGs today.
Ever Phenomenal
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Once upon a time....
I do believe MMORPG will live but the WoW branch is going to become coop games. Another attempt at virtual persistent worlds will come down the line. Its just a slow industry. I think right now only indie developers are announcing because they need the funds.
I'll just answer your question with this ...
If that were really true then why do PvP-centric players waste their time playing MMORPGs that feature PvP done poorly, instead of playing FPSs or MOBAs that revolve around PvP done well?
With that said, what MMORPGs offer can only be understood by players that understand what the RPG in MMORPG stands for. If you are not the type of player who finds value in role playing or immersing oneself in a virtual world, then you won't understand that which MMORPGs do better than any other genre.
There is a lot more to MMORPGs than you, or anyone agreeing with you, is giving them credit for. You simply will not understand what that is, however, if you are not of that mindset.
However, I believe that Oculus Rift will be a game changer when head tracking is good enough - hopefully this Summer. Then, MMORPGs compatible with Oculus Rift could be the games and Facebook for the future.
MMO is no longer about "massively MP" gaming. Don't tell me you do not know that.
Although one poster mentioned amount of content, that seems feasible... I've certainly never sunk 6000 hours into any single player game. Although there is zero reason why I couldn't.
As an MMO, instances are a devolution from Massively Multiplayer back towards Single Player.
Of course MMO's, disregarding the meaning pf "massively" as is done by your industry, have turned away from "massively" in game design. We all know that. We've been talking about that, as I'm sure you have noticed.
Your industry seems to be very reluctant to produce anything "massively" multiplayer anymore. And your industry hasn't left us with any choices in this regard.
Once upon a time....
It is not "me" that turns the industry away from "massively MP". It is simply an experiment that does not resonate with the marketplace. Players simply prefer instanced, small group co-op, or instanced "fair" pvp games.
And the industry evolves to meet that preference. If the industry just quit MMOs, and call all these games something else, you won't even be objecting here. The only issue here is that they opt to keep using the label MMO, which is clearly not exclusive to massively MP games anymore.
Niche preferences indeed have fewer choices. But that is just the nature of markets. I love locked room mysteries, which is a niche .. but you don't see me cry over it. There are simply too many other good entertainment options for me to shed tears over some niche that i may like.
Yeh .. and you can even do that in games without public zones. Hence, massively MP gameplay is really not essentially to good group experiences. Heck, lots of online games have communities & guilds, not just MMOS.