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This is what people really believe they're getting when they invest in Star Citizen

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  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread Member EpicPosts: 7,254
    GrumpyHobbit said:
    CrazKanuk said:

    Well! Sounds like an open and shut case! NOT!!!!!

    The problem is that there is not an agreed upon product. There is a proposed product. That's it! They don't even have to deliver anything. All they need to do is show that they attempted to deliver the product. Where you ever came up with the idea that there was an agreed upon product and an agreed upon timeline is hilarious. It's almost like you think that this isn't something covered in the agreement when you pledge. Shoot, if the loophole was that massive, do you really believe that SOME people would not have already jump in? However, no lawsuits filed..... You should file one. I mean it sounds like you've got it all figured out. 
    Yes, there was an agree upon product.

    Pledge $40 or more

     2,010 backers

    MERCENARY: A digital copy of the finished game for your PC with your RSI Aurora spaceship ready to fly + 1,000 Galactic Credits + Exclusive access to the Alpha and Beta + White Citizen's Card (physical reward)

    Estimated delivery:Nov 2014
    Ships to:Anywhere in the world
    Estimated delivery......

    Also 


    Finished game....
    Sorry, but no one believes that 2 years (perhaps up to 5 years) after estimated delivery is legitimate. Also, the product has changed since then... like you already mentioned in your last post.
  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    edited February 2016
    CrazKanuk said:

    Well! Sounds like an open and shut case! NOT!!!!!

    The problem is that there is not an agreed upon product. There is a proposed product. That's it! They don't even have to deliver anything. All they need to do is show that they attempted to deliver the product. Where you ever came up with the idea that there was an agreed upon product and an agreed upon timeline is hilarious. It's almost like you think that this isn't something covered in the agreement when you pledge. Shoot, if the loophole was that massive, do you really believe that SOME people would not have already jump in? However, no lawsuits filed..... You should file one. I mean it sounds like you've got it all figured out. 
    Yes, there was an agree upon product.

    Pledge $40 or more

     2,010 backers

    MERCENARY: A digital copy of the finished game for your PC with your RSI Aurora spaceship ready to fly + 1,000 Galactic Credits + Exclusive access to the Alpha and Beta + White Citizen's Card (physical reward)

    Estimated delivery:Nov 2014
    Ships to:Anywhere in the world
    Estimated delivery......

    Also 


    Finished game....
    Sorry, but no one believes that 2 years (perhaps up to 5 years) after estimated delivery is legitimate. Also, the product has changed since then... like you already mentioned in your last post.
    Well that's a rather strong statement to present "no one"?  You just said yourself the project changed, wouldn't that make a delay in delivery legitimate? If it was still the same product yeah I'd agree.. But it's not.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread Member EpicPosts: 7,254
    edited February 2016
    Distopia said:
    Well that's a rather strong statement to present "no one"?  You just said yourself the project changed, wouldn't that make a delay in delivery legitimate? If it was still the same product yeah I'd agree.. But it's not.
    Exactly, the consumer is not getting the agreed upon product at the agreed upon time and so if one should seek compensation, they would be standing on extremely solid ground based on laws and precedent.
  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    BeansnBread said:
    Distopia said:
    Well that's a rather strong statement to present "no one"?  You just said yourself the project changed, wouldn't that make a delay in delivery legitimate? If it was still the same product yeah I'd agree.. But it's not.
    Exactly, the consumer is not getting the agreed upon product at the agreed upon time and so if one should seek compensation, they would be standing on extremely solid ground based on laws and precedent.
    For original backers that certainly applies, what about those coming in after said changes? Everyone seems to zero in on one small window of this projects existence even years after the fact. There's is a lot more to this than the original KS campaign. The funding as well as scope has grown extensively since that time. In other words far more have come in after the fact, than were there for that original campaign, the amount of the original KS funds is more or less pocket change in comparison to what has been raised since.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • MensurMensur Member EpicPosts: 1,515
    In a few years- Star Citizen will be the biggest crowdfunded disaster that people will be mentioning for years to come!

    mmorpg junkie since 1999



  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread Member EpicPosts: 7,254
    edited February 2016
    Distopia said:
    Distopia said:
    Well that's a rather strong statement to present "no one"?  You just said yourself the project changed, wouldn't that make a delay in delivery legitimate? If it was still the same product yeah I'd agree.. But it's not.
    Exactly, the consumer is not getting the agreed upon product at the agreed upon time and so if one should seek compensation, they would be standing on extremely solid ground based on laws and precedent.
    For original backers that certainly applies, what about those coming in after said changes? Everyone seems to zero in on one small window of this projects existence even years after the fact. There's is a lot more to this than the original KS campaign. The funding as well as scope has grown extensively since that time. In other words far more have come in after the fact, than were there for that original campaign, the amount of the original KS funds is more or less pocket change in comparison to what has been raised since.
    The problem with me using their site is that they change it so much. I haven't really been following Star Citizen very closely in general, so I don't know what they were offering in their shop and when. I agree that, if there are no dates or products agreed upon that it would be much more difficult to ethically get compensation (before they officially release). I think that's why they changed their stance on dates recently. They said that they are no longer going to announce release dates.
  • GrumpyHobbitGrumpyHobbit Member RarePosts: 1,220
    Mensur said:
    In a few years- Star Citizen will be the biggest crowdfunded disaster that people will be mentioning for years to come!
    or not. 


  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    BeansnBread said:
    Distopia said:
    Distopia said:
    Well that's a rather strong statement to present "no one"?  You just said yourself the project changed, wouldn't that make a delay in delivery legitimate? If it was still the same product yeah I'd agree.. But it's not.
    Exactly, the consumer is not getting the agreed upon product at the agreed upon time and so if one should seek compensation, they would be standing on extremely solid ground based on laws and precedent.
    For original backers that certainly applies, what about those coming in after said changes? Everyone seems to zero in on one small window of this projects existence even years after the fact. There's is a lot more to this than the original KS campaign. The funding as well as scope has grown extensively since that time. In other words far more have come in after the fact, than were there for that original campaign, the amount of the original KS funds is more or less pocket change in comparison to what has been raised since.
    The problem with me using their site is that they change it so much. I haven't really been following Star Citizen very closely in general, so I don't know what they were offering in their shop and when. I agree that, if there are no dates or products agreed upon that it would be much more difficult to ethically get compensation (before they officially release). I think that's why they changed their stance on dates recently. They said that they are no longer going to announce release dates.
    Well that's one thing we can certainly agree on, it's a mess and really hard to follow all that has transpired with this project haha.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    edited February 2016
    Distopia said:
    Distopia said:
    Well that's a rather strong statement to present "no one"?  You just said yourself the project changed, wouldn't that make a delay in delivery legitimate? If it was still the same product yeah I'd agree.. But it's not.
    Exactly, the consumer is not getting the agreed upon product at the agreed upon time and so if one should seek compensation, they would be standing on extremely solid ground based on laws and precedent.
    For original backers that certainly applies, what about those coming in after said changes? Everyone seems to zero in on one small window of this projects existence even years after the fact. There's is a lot more to this than the original KS campaign. The funding as well as scope has grown extensively since that time. In other words far more have come in after the fact, than were there for that original campaign, the amount of the original KS funds is more or less pocket change in comparison to what has been raised since.
    The problem with me using their site is that they change it so much. I haven't really been following Star Citizen very closely in general, so I don't know what they were offering in their shop and when. I agree that, if there are no dates or products agreed upon that it would be much more difficult to ethically get compensation (before they officially release). I think that's why they changed their stance on dates recently. They said that they are no longer going to announce release dates.
    Why is that a problem. Go the the Wayback Machine it archives sites on a daily basis, so you can see the changes over time. 

    Since you have this at your disposal, it only makes your open and shut case even more of a slam dunk! Why are you sitting here? You could be making millions right now! Honestly, I just wish that one of these people would file an effin' law suit already. I mean even DS doesn't have the balls to. 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • BrenicsBrenics Member RarePosts: 1,939
    CrazKanuk said:
    Distopia said:
    Distopia said:
    Well that's a rather strong statement to present "no one"?  You just said yourself the project changed, wouldn't that make a delay in delivery legitimate? If it was still the same product yeah I'd agree.. But it's not.
    Exactly, the consumer is not getting the agreed upon product at the agreed upon time and so if one should seek compensation, they would be standing on extremely solid ground based on laws and precedent.
    For original backers that certainly applies, what about those coming in after said changes? Everyone seems to zero in on one small window of this projects existence even years after the fact. There's is a lot more to this than the original KS campaign. The funding as well as scope has grown extensively since that time. In other words far more have come in after the fact, than were there for that original campaign, the amount of the original KS funds is more or less pocket change in comparison to what has been raised since.
    The problem with me using their site is that they change it so much. I haven't really been following Star Citizen very closely in general, so I don't know what they were offering in their shop and when. I agree that, if there are no dates or products agreed upon that it would be much more difficult to ethically get compensation (before they officially release). I think that's why they changed their stance on dates recently. They said that they are no longer going to announce release dates.
    Why is that a problem. Go the the Wayback Machine it archives sites on a daily basis, so you can see the changes over time. 

    Since you have this at your disposal, it only makes your open and shut case even more of a slam dunk! Why are you sitting here? You could be making millions right now! Honestly, I just wish that one of these people would file an effin' law suit already. I mean even DS doesn't have the balls to. 
    He got his money back without even asking so him filing a lawsuit is mute. Now anyone denied a refund and backed why back then, they could file. 

    Doesn't really matter, once CR decides to close it all down (which i believe will happen) then you will see suits hitting him from all sides.

    What am waiting for is to see how long it takes Sandi to leave him once CR's money runs out. Some believe she only came back to him because of movies he planned to make and the cash of course. 

    Interesting times in the gaming industry. Changes with funding I bet will change big time once this crashes and burns. IMHO!
    I'm not perfect but I'm always myself!

    Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event

    4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.

    http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/

    Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!

  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member EpicPosts: 3,396
    edited February 2016
    Mensur said:
    In a few years- Star Citizen will be the biggest crowdfunded disaster that people will be mentioning for years to come!
    or not. 



    Feel free to point out ANY project of Chris Roberts that he produced as the top dog.    Certainly nothing from Digital Anvil.  What a waste of money that was.  The only thing you might be able to point to is Wing Commander:  The Movie.  Ugh.


    Not saying that Star Citizen won't eventually come out (late).  Just that it won't be anything like what's been promised.  And it will be more of a testament to the team that is working on it.  'Cause Roberts is just a serious drag on the efficiency of the folks doing the actual work. 


    While Roberts grandiose and self-indulgent bloviating manages to bring in the money, his terrible management skills gums up the machinery of making the game.   And his tremendous ego will not let him stop hogging the spotlight and producing embarrassing spectacles.  


    A long and bumpy road.... 

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • thunderclesthundercles Member UncommonPosts: 510
    They ninja delete all negative SC posts. -posted in a thread that is critical toward SC.
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    thundercles said:
    They ninja delete all negative SC posts. -posted in a thread that is critical toward SC.
    lol..

    they also locked the more positive spin on a subject and left the more negitive spin open because it was the orgnial thread

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    SEANMCAD said:
    thundercles said:
    They ninja delete all negative SC posts. -posted in a thread that is critical toward SC.
    lol..

    they also locked the more positive spin on a subject and left the more negitive spin open because it was the orgnial thread
    LIES!

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    edited February 2016
    Distopia said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    They ninja delete all negative SC posts. -posted in a thread that is critical toward SC.
    lol..

    they also locked the more positive spin on a subject and left the more negitive spin open because it was the orgnial thread
    LIES!
    closed:

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • GrumpyHobbitGrumpyHobbit Member RarePosts: 1,220
    Arglebargle said:
    Mensur said:
    In a few years- Star Citizen will be the biggest crowdfunded disaster that people will be mentioning for years to come!
    or not. 



    Feel free to point out ANY project of Chris Roberts that he produced as the top dog.    Certainly nothing from Digital Anvil.  What a waste of money that was.  The only thing you might be able to point to is Wing Commander:  The Movie.  Ugh.


    Not saying that Star Citizen won't eventually come out (late).  Just that it won't be anything like what's been promised.  And it will be more of a testament to the team that is working on it.  'Cause Roberts is just a serious drag on the efficiency of the folks doing the actual work. 


    While Roberts grandiose and self-indulgent bloviating manages to bring in the money, his terrible management skills gums up the machinery of making the game.   And his tremendous ego will not let him stop hogging the spotlight and producing embarrassing spectacles.  


    A long and bumpy road.... 

    I was making a joke about the futility of saying anythings 100% about the game without making shit up....sorry you felt the need to make it into a long wall of text. 
  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    GrumpyHobbit said:
    Arglebargle said:
    Mensur said:
    In a few years- Star Citizen will be the biggest crowdfunded disaster that people will be mentioning for years to come!
    or not. 



    Feel free to point out ANY project of Chris Roberts that he produced as the top dog.    Certainly nothing from Digital Anvil.  What a waste of money that was.  The only thing you might be able to point to is Wing Commander:  The Movie.  Ugh.


    Not saying that Star Citizen won't eventually come out (late).  Just that it won't be anything like what's been promised.  And it will be more of a testament to the team that is working on it.  'Cause Roberts is just a serious drag on the efficiency of the folks doing the actual work. 


    While Roberts grandiose and self-indulgent bloviating manages to bring in the money, his terrible management skills gums up the machinery of making the game.   And his tremendous ego will not let him stop hogging the spotlight and producing embarrassing spectacles.  


    A long and bumpy road.... 

    I was making a joke about the futility of saying anythings 100% about the game without making shit up....sorry you felt the need to make it into a long wall of text. 

    Just for the record, I quite enjoy the Wing Commander movie and Lucky Number Slevin and Lord of War.

    As far as Games, check out his IMDB. My personal fave was Privateer. 


    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • DeathengerDeathenger Member UncommonPosts: 880
    edited February 2016
    SEANMCAD said:
    Distopia said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    They ninja delete all negative SC posts. -posted in a thread that is critical toward SC.
    lol..

    they also locked the more positive spin on a subject and left the more negitive spin open because it was the orgnial thread
    LIES!
    closed:

     Pfft you're really reaching hard here guy. You know damn well that post was closed because it was made in respond to the armchair post. It was nothing but a troll to the first post.

    Man I'm gonna laugh so hard when this game flops because of special posts like yours.
     
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    oh wow I am going to make peoples heads explode

    Not only am i somewhat of a critic of SC but I also disagree with most SC critics which makes me a White Night and as a White Night have never seen any of CRs movies.

    head explody

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • GrumpyHobbitGrumpyHobbit Member RarePosts: 1,220
    He did lord of war....love that film.

    Also his IMDB bio is impressive, didn't realize how much he has achieved and how successful he really has been. 
  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member EpicPosts: 3,396
    GrumpyHobbit said:
    Arglebargle said:
    Mensur said:
    In a few years- Star Citizen will be the biggest crowdfunded disaster that people will be mentioning for years to come!
    or not. 



    Feel free to point out ANY project of Chris Roberts that he produced as the top dog.    Certainly nothing from Digital Anvil.  What a waste of money that was.  The only thing you might be able to point to is Wing Commander:  The Movie.  Ugh.


    Not saying that Star Citizen won't eventually come out (late).  Just that it won't be anything like what's been promised.  And it will be more of a testament to the team that is working on it.  'Cause Roberts is just a serious drag on the efficiency of the folks doing the actual work. 


    While Roberts grandiose and self-indulgent bloviating manages to bring in the money, his terrible management skills gums up the machinery of making the game.   And his tremendous ego will not let him stop hogging the spotlight and producing embarrassing spectacles.  


    A long and bumpy road.... 

    I was making a joke about the futility of saying anythings 100% about the game without making shit up....sorry you felt the need to make it into a long wall of text. 


    Doesn't really affect the point though.   Expectations of the game.


    TL:DR  people get what they deserve. 



    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member EpicPosts: 3,396
    GrumpyHobbit said:
    He did lord of war....love that film.

    Also his IMDB bio is impressive, didn't realize how much he has achieved and how successful he really has been. 


    You have no idea what Roberts actually did on any of the films (other than WC).   Producer is a fairly nebulous title in Hollywood.  Could mean any number of different things.   Stan Lee is listed as a producer on the Avenger movies, but I doubt he did anything other than a courtesy script pass.


    And all those Roberts films have the Hollywood curse of not making buckets of money.   Cannot say that about SC though.

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member EpicPosts: 3,396
    CrazKanuk said:
    GrumpyHobbit said:
    Arglebargle said:
    Mensur said:
    In a few years- Star Citizen will be the biggest crowdfunded disaster that people will be mentioning for years to come!
    or not. 



    Feel free to point out ANY project of Chris Roberts that he produced as the top dog.    Certainly nothing from Digital Anvil.  What a waste of money that was.  The only thing you might be able to point to is Wing Commander:  The Movie.  Ugh.


    Not saying that Star Citizen won't eventually come out (late).  Just that it won't be anything like what's been promised.  And it will be more of a testament to the team that is working on it.  'Cause Roberts is just a serious drag on the efficiency of the folks doing the actual work. 


    While Roberts grandiose and self-indulgent bloviating manages to bring in the money, his terrible management skills gums up the machinery of making the game.   And his tremendous ego will not let him stop hogging the spotlight and producing embarrassing spectacles.  


    A long and bumpy road.... 

    I was making a joke about the futility of saying anythings 100% about the game without making shit up....sorry you felt the need to make it into a long wall of text. 

    Just for the record, I quite enjoy the Wing Commander movie and Lucky Number Slevin and Lord of War.

    As far as Games, check out his IMDB. My personal fave was Privateer. 



    You can enjoy things without them being well done.  Privateer wasn't a Roberts production.  Neither was Privateer 2.  Or WC2.   But I do see them cited as testament to his genius every now and then.

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    Arglebargle said:


    Just for the record, I quite enjoy the Wing Commander movie and Lucky Number Slevin and Lord of War.

    As far as Games, check out his IMDB. My personal fave was Privateer. 



    You can enjoy things without them being well done.  Privateer wasn't a Roberts production.  Neither was Privateer 2.  Or WC2.   But I do see them cited as testament to his genius every now and then.

    In what way? Like he wasn't in the credits, or didn't actively contribute? 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member EpicPosts: 3,396

    WC2 was directed and written by the main programmer for WC1.  Roberts was credited as producer, but even his own sources say he wasn't as heavily involved in it as WC1.  Privateer was done by someone else entirely. Only citation for Roberts is for 'original concept'. Privateer 2 was only named that late in production, to cash in on name recognition most likely.  Erin Roberts did that one.  


    Talking to friends who worked at Origin, one of their many beefs with Roberts was him taking credit for the work of others.   Every Roberts pronouncement is intended to increase the glory of Chris Roberts.  Thus things like the Youtube videos being listed on imdb as TV productions.   


    I talked to a bunch of folks who worked with him at Origin, and the stories were not pretty.

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

This discussion has been closed.