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Forums Aflame - Companion Nerf Under Fire | Star Wars: The Old Republic | MMORPG.com

SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
edited November 2015 in News & Features Discussion
imageForums Aflame - Companion Nerf Under Fire | Star Wars: The Old Republic | MMORPG.com

The Star Wars: The Old Republic forums are afire with the nerf to companion damage and healing outputs that arrived with yesterday's patch. Bioware's Eric Musco took to the forum to explain why alterations in companions' base stats and damage/healing reductions were necessary, a post that has generated an astonishing ninety-six pages of angry posts from players.

Read the full story here



¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 


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Comments

  • flizzerflizzer Member RarePosts: 2,454
    And EA does it again. Will gamers ever learn? I doubt it.
  • MargraveMargrave Member RarePosts: 1,362
    edited November 2015
    It's easy to deal with. If you were a sub account, go, and cancel it. When it asks you why you're cancelling tell them. If enough people stop giving them money they'll pay attention.

    Never underestimate the power of boycott. The true power is in the hand of the consumer. The power to keep their money. No one is forcing anyone to buy anything.

    Except insurance companies.

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342
    edited November 2015
    It is always the same with any larger game changes in any game, people are having hard time adapting/accepting changes and go stupid about it.

    It's getting old...
  • hikaru77hikaru77 Member UncommonPosts: 1,123
    A few weeks ago SWTOR was like ¨Nerf the companions, too OP, games´s too easy¨, After last update ¨Your nerfed the companions what were u thinking BW!!,  I´ll cancel my sub¨ .
  • Gaming.Rocks2Gaming.Rocks2 Member UncommonPosts: 531
    Sorry if I misunderstood but what has happened here exactly? You can't solo contents anymore in an Mmo or is there something else?
    Gaming Rocks next gen. community for last gen. gamers launching soon. 
  • WicoaWicoa Member UncommonPosts: 1,637
    edited November 2015
    I felt a great disturbance in the force, as if millions of voices cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced.  Followed by the cancellation of Bioware/EA Christmas bonuses due to the currently cascading subscriber numbers of which I am most definitely one.

    These aren't kickstarter cowboys.  This is a f up and it will cost them, dearly.

    Companions were fine.  It took effort to level them to 50 and thats when they became good, one of mine is only just 48 and thats with 1000s of data crystal spent.   As it is now I would hate hate to level with a companion at level 1.

    People were enjoying the game, the weeklies were like watching paint dry but at least it was manageable.  Now its like a Korean grindfest.

    Goodbye Bioware you obviously don't have a clue.  I suggest you quest for one, perhaps your paper thin companions can help.

    Shout out to all the other support roles out there because you can't dual spec in this game and having a viable companion allowed you to solo effectively.
    Post edited by Wicoa on
  • ThaneThane Member EpicPosts: 3,534
    Gaming.Rocks said:
    Sorry if I misunderstood but what has happened here exactly? You can't solo contents anymore in an Mmo or is there something else?
    yep, exactly my thought ^^ no idea where the prob is when a single player CAN'T do HEROIC content alone. might be the reason it's flagged as heroic?

    "I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  • WicoaWicoa Member UncommonPosts: 1,637
    edited November 2015
    Thane said:
    Sorry if I misunderstood but what has happened here exactly? You can't solo contents anymore in an Mmo or is there something else?
    yep, exactly my thought ^^ no idea where the prob is when a single player CAN'T do HEROIC content alone. might be the reason it's flagged as heroic?

    No its more than that.  SWTOR is very much a solo centric mmorpg, so story, dailies and weeklies etc.  This game does not cope well with high amounts of group content.  Group content is done but to do that you pretty much sit around on the fleet joining Operative Raid groups.

    The tools to group in this instance based, solo centric, story driven mmorpg are dire.  The tools used  to complete what was meant to be solo content are no longer decent and was touted as one of the benefits of playing this game, i.e story attachment companions.
  • MalaboogaMalabooga Member UncommonPosts: 2,977
    edited November 2015
    Thane said:
    Sorry if I misunderstood but what has happened here exactly? You can't solo contents anymore in an Mmo or is there something else?
    yep, exactly my thought ^^ no idea where the prob is when a single player CAN'T do HEROIC content alone. might be the reason it's flagged as heroic?
    Because they kept pointing out its NOT going to be like that?

    Because they made streams to SHOWACASE its not going to be like that?

    Because they made a post YESTARDAY its not going to be like that?

    Maybe, you know, just maybe, people MIGHT be right? Has it EVER crossed your mind?
  • BillMurphyBillMurphy Former Managing EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 4,565
    I have to try the nerfs out today, but I'm a little worried. I really loathed how much downtime the game had before. Stopping to meditate between every fight was boring and silly. I won't mind fights being a little more planned out, but I hope they still do enough healing to make downtime negligible. 

    Try to be excellent to everyone you meet. You never know what someone else has seen or endured.

    My Review Manifesto
    Follow me on Twitter if you dare.

  • jesteralwaysjesteralways Member RarePosts: 2,560
    Thanks for taking the time create an article on this. This has really got on my nerves, i was one of those people who supported them when they revealed level sync, true i said companions were op and they needed nerf but i still stood by them and acknowledged that companion changes were very much needed. Please take note that they were op without any doubt but they did not need 75% nerf to their healing and damage. Now i can no longer just keep saying they are doing the right thing for the game, i have criticized them for many things like their f2p monetization but never about game design decision to this extent, every mmo game have their bad design choices and i relented that most people who are complaining about nerf or buff are just elitist but right now even if i am being called names i just can't say their decision is right.

    Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.

  • NibsNibs Member UncommonPosts: 287
    BillMurphy said:
    I have to try the nerfs out today, but I'm a little worried. I really loathed how much downtime the game had before. Stopping to meditate between every fight was boring and silly. I won't mind fights being a little more planned out, but I hope they still do enough healing to make downtime negligible. 
    You "loathed" the 30 second downtime between fights? Wow.
  • munsil42munsil42 Member UncommonPosts: 96
    edited November 2015
    Just soloed a Heroic Star Fortress, died once on the Droid. Paladins were pretty east, last boss almost killed me. Used buffs given by alliance folks and the terminal at the beginning. I Did have to meditate a few times and look at my options on who to CC and attack first. In my opinion they nerfed companions way too much. I did this as a 65 marauder in mix/match 216/220 set gear with Lana Beniko at 50. The reason they don't get it is that THEY themselves do not play the game. Have you seen them play during their streams? They are utterly horrible and lost while playing. They have no clue what the daily/weekly gamer goes through. Add to that, they NEVER test diddly poo on the PTS. I won't be cancelling my sub just yet since I play with my wife and another friend. But if this is a sign of things to come in the coming months, then I might just step away for a bit. Edit: I put this in paragraphs, I don't know why it is all one block.
  • TalulaRoseTalulaRose Member RarePosts: 1,247
    BillMurphy said:
    I have to try the nerfs out today, but I'm a little worried. I really loathed how much downtime the game had before. Stopping to meditate between every fight was boring and silly. I won't mind fights being a little more planned out, but I hope they still do enough healing to make downtime negligible. 
    But while waiting you don't have a book blocking your view of everything.
  • WicoaWicoa Member UncommonPosts: 1,637
    Nibs said:
    BillMurphy said:
    I have to try the nerfs out today, but I'm a little worried. I really loathed how much downtime the game had before. Stopping to meditate between every fight was boring and silly. I won't mind fights being a little more planned out, but I hope they still do enough healing to make downtime negligible. 
    You "loathed" the 30 second downtime between fights? Wow.
    Yeh some people not just Bill like to feel active playing a game not stopping for 30s after every fight to enjoy a game after work.  Perhaps you have more time on your hands than most but those that don't like to maximise our enjoyment when we relax,  we don't have to pause a blu-ray after every clip to give the device downtime so we can start it again do we!
  • JudgeUKJudgeUK Member RarePosts: 1,679
    BillMurphy said:
    I have to try the nerfs out today, but I'm a little worried. I really loathed how much downtime the game had before. Stopping to meditate between every fight was boring and silly. I won't mind fights being a little more planned out, but I hope they still do enough healing to make downtime negligible. 
    There appear to be two main issues here (which are probably linked): 1. The lack of any trialing before these changes where implemented 2. The degree of companion nerfs - 70% in one critical area. Now I'd say, that before you change anything by that amount you need to be really sure you know what you are doing. A complete lack of any pts testing with these changes seems to go directly against this. I would have taken a different approach. Carry out scaled adjustment trials on the pts - listen to player feedback. Then go with the majority, even if that meant leaving things as they were. But this approach appears to be as ham-fisted as you could get. With an utterly predictable response from many players. Or should that be ex-players now.
  • BillMurphyBillMurphy Former Managing EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 4,565
    Wicoa said:
    Nibs said:
    BillMurphy said:
    I have to try the nerfs out today, but I'm a little worried. I really loathed how much downtime the game had before. Stopping to meditate between every fight was boring and silly. I won't mind fights being a little more planned out, but I hope they still do enough healing to make downtime negligible. 
    You "loathed" the 30 second downtime between fights? Wow.
    Yeh some people not just Bill like to feel active playing a game not stopping for 30s after every fight to enjoy a game after work.  Perhaps you have more time on your hands than most but those that don't like to maximise our enjoyment when we relax,  we don't have to pause a blu-ray after every clip to give the device downtime so we can start it again do we!
    Yep, this. The downtime was forced, and in my opinion silly. Why on earth would I stop and meditate, 30 feet from a group of troopers? Other than the fact that I needed to because of the game's poor downtime design. Downtime, to me, is a silly mechanic that serves little real purpose other than stopping the fun of a game.  In competitive games like DotA the downtime between dying and coming back to a fight makes sense. In an MMO, it's just out of place.  

    But, again, it's just my opinion. 

    Try to be excellent to everyone you meet. You never know what someone else has seen or endured.

    My Review Manifesto
    Follow me on Twitter if you dare.

  • jesteralwaysjesteralways Member RarePosts: 2,560
    JudgeUK said:
    BillMurphy said:
    I have to try the nerfs out today, but I'm a little worried. I really loathed how much downtime the game had before. Stopping to meditate between every fight was boring and silly. I won't mind fights being a little more planned out, but I hope they still do enough healing to make downtime negligible. 
    There appear to be two main issues here (which are probably linked): 1. The lack of any trialing before these changes where implemented 2. The degree of companion nerfs - 70% in one critical area. Now I'd say, that before you change anything by that amount you need to be really sure you know what you are doing. A complete lack of any pts testing with these changes seems to go directly against this. I would have taken a different approach. Carry out scaled adjustment trials on the pts - listen to player feedback. Then go with the majority, even if that meant leaving things as they were. But this approach appears to be as ham-fisted as you could get. With an utterly predictable response from many players. Or should that be ex-players now.
    Companions needed nerf on all fronts : dps, healing and tanking. But as you have said the nerf needed to be done through testing and feedback. Not like this.

    Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,855
    MisterZebub said:
    Thane said:
    Gaming.Rocks said:
    Sorry if I misunderstood but what has happened here exactly? You can't solo contents anymore in an Mmo or is there something else?
    yep, exactly my thought ^^ no idea where the prob is when a single player CAN'T do HEROIC content alone. might be the reason it's flagged as heroic?
    Except SW TOR has been leaning more and more towards being a solocentric game, especially so with the newest expansion. So don't blame the players for being angry that the game makers made the game a piece of piss and then had a bait and switch pulled on them. Instead blame the game makers themselves for apparently not having a bastard clue what they're doing, which in my not so humble opinion is nothing new.
    I canceled my account back with the release of 3.0. EULA always says play style is subject to change. I get that. But developers really need to be careful when they do it. Players become invested in the work they put forth in their characters. The same thing happened to me in Rift. The expansion destroyed the things I enjoyed about my main character. After all the time I put into my Rogue, I had no desire of any kind to start over.
    Sure, play style is subject to change....and so is my account status.
  • TalulaRoseTalulaRose Member RarePosts: 1,247
    They should add an option.

    Skip to the end, give me lewts. <please and thank-you optional>
  • jesteralwaysjesteralways Member RarePosts: 2,560
    edited November 2015
    Thane said:
    Gaming.Rocks said:
    Sorry if I misunderstood but what has happened here exactly? You can't solo contents anymore in an Mmo or is there something else?
    yep, exactly my thought ^^ no idea where the prob is when a single player CAN'T do HEROIC content alone. might be the reason it's flagged as heroic?
    Mate, say you are level 65 in swtor and you are going to level 41 belsavis to do heroic and you are dying there because you pulled 2 elites at once, does it feel alright to you? They added level sync to dumb us down to planet level cap but they stated even after dumb down we will still be able to face roll lowbie content thanks to the changes to companion. But now they went back on that statement, they sold us lie. Recent development on forums : players with operations(swtor raid equivalent) set gears can solo star fortress heroic. They are posting video of their "glory" and calling us "whiners' bad players. This further proves where bioware got their metrics to nerf companions. This basically makes me believe we will not see any more buff to companions and doing 16 men hard mode operations to acquire end game set gears and then trying to solo Heroic 2 men star fortress will become the norm now. EDIT : Wrote in paragraphs...

    Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.

  • munsil42munsil42 Member UncommonPosts: 96
    Thane said:
    Sorry if I misunderstood but what has happened here exactly? You can't solo contents anymore in an Mmo or is there something else?
    yep, exactly my thought ^^ no idea where the prob is when a single player CAN'T do HEROIC content alone. might be the reason it's flagged as heroic?

    I wanted to put this here just for you buddy, this is from Eric Musco of BW:

    Absolutely! It certainly may be a bit more challenging than before but you can complete them. The intent is that you can complete any [Heroic 2] with your Companion counting as one of the two. If you find this isn't true for any Heroics tomorrow, let us know.

    -eric

  • AlomarAlomar Member RarePosts: 1,299
    I only played this expansion for the story chapters then left again, yet I don't like either of the companion changes added. Maybe a slight nerf was necessary since everything was so easily solo'able but not such a devastating one.
    Haxus Council Member
    21  year MMO veteran 
    PvP Raid Leader 
    Lover of The Witcher & CD Projekt Red
  • MalaboogaMalabooga Member UncommonPosts: 2,977
    TalulaRose said:
    They should add an option.

    Skip to the end, give me lewts. <please and thank-you optional>
    And? What if they do?
  • BanegrivmBanegrivm Member UncommonPosts: 262
    Honestly these devs do not pay attention at all. They never have. Just look at Huttball as an example. People have been complaining about it being included since BETA. What do the devs do? Add ANOTHER map of Huttball. I've yet to meet someone that actually likes it and thinks it makes sense for the story of an intergalactic war. Next they'll be having a tea party, because you know, that makes just as much sense as war parties playing games together. They just recently nerfed a number of classes that did not need it, like some of the specs for the operative and smuggler. Now those specs/classes are pretty much so underpowered they are a joke. Then there is the space combat that was like Jump to Lightspeed that people have been asking for since beta. When they add starfighters to the game, what do we get? Unbalanced PvP. No PvE at all. The devs just are sleeping at the wheel. They do what they want, not what we want, and that's not how you design a game. I love the game enough, but I also accept the games faults and flaws for what it is. I was wondering around fleet the last couple days and noticed how empty it was. More so than usual, I can't say I'm surprised at all. Unless the devs wake up this game is going to continue to circle the drain.

    Banegrivm
    Leader of the 1st Fist of Light
    www.1stfistoflight.com

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