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Goblinworks went through a major transformation this week. It’s been on a slow descent for the past year and finally crash landed the other day. Read on for Rob Lashley’s take on what went wrong and what we hope to see for the Pathfinder IP going forward.
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I also don't get why wouldn't they just shut it down. I can't imagine the recent news has encouraged more publishers coming out of the woodwork, as mentioned in the CEO letter.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
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"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Take the lead. Not doing so results in what happened to GW.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
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Excellent article.
I’m sorry to see this happen, but am unsurprised. And while I suspect the game will fold, I offer these comments in the event it does not.
I’m an early backer of Pathfinder Online, and was a middling presence on Paizo’s PfO forum (not so much on GoblinWorks’ forum). I backed at the guild level, but of the nine friends-and-family involved, only five of us ever tried it; one did little more than run around the starter zone before giving up, two played a few times, and only my husband and I kept at it (and I suspect he was playing only because I was and not because he enjoyed it). I quit in early May, my subscription lapsed on June 4th, and while I’ve kept an eye on the various forums since then, I haven’t been back.
I backed the project because of the Pathfinder name and reputation, but the game isn’t very much like Pathfinder. Maybe moving it in-house, with Lisa Stevens in charge, will change that.
So, in the interests of offering the feedback of an enthusiastic backer who loved the concept but disliked the game itself enough to quit, despite a generally great community I’d love to spend time with again, here are my “problem areas”. Note that these are based on the last time I played, so some specifics have likely changed. They are NOT a laundry list of Things to Change, just my subjective observations of the things that irritated or disappointed me. Cumulatively, they drove me away.
Also, it is worth noting that I chose to post this here rather than on GoblinWorks or Paizo (where I’m better known) as most negative comments there are descended upon with the fury of a pack (herd? flock?) of rabid ferrets. It might help the game’s reputation if its most dedicated players dialed back the hostility. In any case, I’m really not interested in arguing these points with any rabid ferrets, and the likelihood of that happening is less, posting here rather than there.
1. Graphics were NOT an issue for me. Thought I’d get that one out of the way up front. Yes, they’re dated and clunky, but they’re the frosting on the cake. I’ll be perfectly happy with a tasty, unfrosted cake, but I won’t be happy eating a thin veneer of delicious cream cheese frosting on a stale cracker. Graphics can be fixed later on. There are goblins, and that was enough for me on the graphics front.
2. I typically refer to myself as a “non-PvPer” rather than an “anti-PvPer”. My focus is on RP and PvE, but I’ve enjoyed large-scale PvP in other games; what I don’t like is random small-scale PvP during my (limited) play time; however nice my opponent(s) may be – and they rarely are - I still feel that I’ve been robbed of that evening’s hour or so of entertainment doing what I wanted to do, in order to entertain Random Killer #6349 doing what s/he wanted to do. Given the original Kickstarter emphasis on negative consequences for random player killing, I felt confident backing the project. I’ll note here in shouty caps: in the time I played PfO, I encountered NO random PvP. PvP WAS NOT AN ISSUE for me. But I thought my aversion to random PvP, and my willingness to back the project anyway, is worth noting here as PvP has always been a central topic when it comes to PfO’s design.
3. Skill training was a nightmare for me. Part of this, I suspect, is that I started with a ton of points to spend, so was overwhelmed by options. I consider myself a “casual time sink” player: I’ll cheerfully spend hours on the forums and in game, but I’m neither interested in reading guides, nor invested in optimizing my characters. I’ve got a character concept and I build to that, however weird the results are. Give me clear, simple choices for skill training. And for heaven’s sake, don’t make me run all over the place buying near-mandatory useful skills (stealth, I’m looking at you) from multiple trainers! Consider offering a clear path for single-track characters (“You want to be a fire mage? Go to Trainer Phoenix and buy all the skills in red!”) and including all necessary cross-class skills (hit points, self heal, stealth, whatever) on all trainers. Possibly already done – it’s been months since I played – and if not it’s a long-term goal at best, and possibly one not many people want, but the wide-open, buy-whatever-you-want-and-by-the-way-you’ll-need-to-see-multiple-trainers system was a HUGE turnoff for me. And ugh, don’t get me started on the plethora of gods-damned keywords! Regarding this whole general topic, one of my friends summed it up this way: “If I can’t just log in, understand the skill system well enough to train a halfway decent character, and gear up easily, then I’m not playing.” And he hasn’t. And after trying for several months, I'm not either.
4. The emphasis on a need for large settlements de-emphasized, for me, the heroic, small-group nature of tabletop, and made me feel like a small cog in a very big machine – and that’s despite being quickly promoted/given more responsibilities in each of the groups I joined (one pre-game, one in-game). I’m just not a large-group sort of person, but at the same time, I want to feel I have a substantial voice if I’m going to be “living” in a player-run settlement. Perhaps, with more players and/or a smaller, more densely-populated area and/or not introducing settlements so early, I’d have felt differently.
5. Gameplay was simply not interesting. Also, at times, actively frustrating – for example, in one group session the fighters were unable to pull mobs’ attention away from my mage, and I died so often my armor went to zero durability and disappeared. (Please note, here, that I’ve been playing tabletop since 1978 and online since 1995 – I know HOW to play, but that was no help in this instance. I believe it was due to some skill effects not being in yet?) Realism, PvP, yes, I know – but incredibly frustrating nonetheless. That was my last play session but one, and in the interest of full disclosure that experience weighed heavily in my decision to quit. I don’t want to have to gear up, or skill up, like a tank in order to play a mage; it doesn’t “feel” right to my RP-oriented brain.
6. A time-based xp system rewards early, constant backers at the expense of people who take a break or simply start later. The longer I am away, the further behind the power curve I am. As I’m a casual player, that’s usually not an issue – I’m back in WoW right now after quitting early in the Pandaria expansion, and I still don’t have a character at 90, much less 100, and that doesn’t bother me at all – but in a PvP-enabled game, that behind-the-curve-and-facing-powerful-optimized-attackers feeling makes me even less likely to return. Not sure there is a solution for this one, but there you have it.
I truly do hope the game succeeds, and I hope one day it will be in a state that appeals to me – and that that state is clearly communicated out-of-game. It’s why I still keep an eye on the forums (here, Paizo and GoblinWorks). Also, and on a brighter note, I understand that the Hellknights Most Wanted art is done, so I look forward to seeing Deianira Sunstorm’s wanted poster in the Emerald Spire PDF! I’d still really like to actually play her one day, though.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I feel bad for anybody that had high hopes for this game, but how anyone could fail to see this coming...
PS: Man... those screenshots look like 2008 gfx... like LotRO, but devoid of love and taste...
Played: E&B, SWG, Eve, WoW, COH, WAR, POTBS, AOC, LOTRO, AUTO.A, AO, FE, TR, WWII, MWO, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, NWO, WoP, RUST, LIF, SOA, MORTAL, DFUW, AA, TF, PFO, ALBO, and many many others....
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No more "BOX" fee. Free 15 day trials at: goblinworks.com/download/
Ozem's Vigil: The largest force for Holy Justice in the River Kingdoms.
Are You Ready to Smite Evil?
ozemsvigil.guildlaunch.com
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
This game always had serious flaws and the developers just ignored those that pointed them out. If you are going to use an IP you had better tie it to that IP instead of going off in your own direction.
The chance of getting the same candor in regards to a Trion or Cryptic game are about nil.
they gave the game 4.5 review a few months ago.
Was the outcome ever in doubt based on the first builds? It was pretty clear the developers didn't really have a handle on a project of this size. I hate to pour salt on the wound, but pretty much every system top to bottom was poorly executed. The quality level on the project was honestly about a 3 of 10 in everything I saw. Pretty depressing. I remember actually feel sorry for the development staff the first time I played it. It was .........embarrassing.