This guy... this guy over here... Crit craft chance 0.5%...?! Is he making a Korean game or what? This guy isn't a crafter.
Cheers.
Crit chance has nothing to do with a good crafting system, it has to do with increased item value. If you could crit 50%, you'd still end up with the same outcome but everyone would be able to afford the best gear.
Well FFXI had a sort of take on the Critical chance idea that i still to this day am not sure if it was good or bad.They made crafting sooo slow it took a lot of effort to gain mats and craft.Anyhow what they did was raise the critical depending on your skill level in that particular craft.You had to basically be 20levels above the craft to start seeing a critical.This meant you sort of EARNED your critical or chance at one.Then at say 30+ levels above the chance % went higher none the less it was higher than the .5% the lowest was like idk 20% i think.
I feel if you are going to introduce ways of players attaining the BEST gear it should be more difficult and time consuming than simply killing a Boss for a % chance or crafting for a % chance.That really dumbs the entire RARE idea down to one system a % rare chance.I would love to see a random variance for each crafter to DISCOVER.Example combining various parts to make a super item and you would need to attain mats for those parts by GROUPING in every tier zone.This also helps the grouping and empty zones we usually see in games.
The RNG would be in the actual recipe,each crafter would have to discover what recipe for them creates the SUPER items.This also removes any wiki idea where players after one week can simply look on wiki and see the result.It also removes the need for Raiding as that again is a Wiki idea that players simply look at the first wave of success and copies it.You can even create the random generator on Bosses as well so their AI is not always the exact same each time.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
this guy has sound ideas except the "making a name for yourself". since the game world works on static rules, after some time all crafters are the same. the main differentiator being price and access to materials.
I hope the implement some kind of patent or unique crafting items system to make the crafters differ. this offers a limited time of advantage (patent expires, unique item gets damaged by use) and also another level of competition among the crafters.
Once I played an UO free shard that had wear on items and going into a large dungeon, we took a crafter with us just to repair stuff on the road. or multiple sets of items I hope this gets in as well.
All nice but does it build upon SWGs ressource System?
Does it have harvesters (either with Magic or NPC Workforce)?
NPC Workforce would add a whole new depth to a "Harvester Ressource Gathering System".
I doubt htat...
"Torquemada... do not implore him for compassion. Torquemada... do not beg him for forgiveness. Torquemada... do not ask him for mercy. Let's face it, you can't Torquemada anything!"
So are you saying Crowfall will launch with a great crafting system then later have it broken due to it's complexity?
I am saying that just because Blixtev, aka Toilet Boy, is working on the crafting system, it does not mean it is going to be good.
His experience on SWG is at best a wash: he was largely responsible for a lot of the crafting changes at the CU (being design lead for the crafting side, which he has stated), which were bad, and was there for several years while the NGE ruined what was left.
So yeah, he worked on SWG and SWG had good crafting at the beginning. And then it was wrecked, and he responsible for at least some of that.
Raph Koster, on the other hand, designed much of what made SWG good, and he was gone before all the BS took place.
His reputation as a "world builder" is frankly much more impressive.
So any excitement because Blixtev is working on a game? Not so much.
So you're focusing on the negative side entirely ? Sure, Blixtev was "responsible" for the "destruction" of SWG's original crafting system, but he was also the the guy who created it in the first place !
I don't for a moment believe that he acted on his own volition. The word came down from the top that SWG had to be "re-designed" to appeal to a different demographic. Each designer and developer who was responsible for a specific area had to come up with changes and a suitable "sales pitch" to justify them. Or find a new job...
Raph Koster is the one who came up with the designs for original SWG, Toilet Boy was far more junior then, so no... Blixtev did not create it in the first place.
And you made my point for me: Blixtev conceived of and designed many of the changes to crafting in the SWG-CU/NGE and THEN he sold them to management, who wanted a dumbed down game. He may not have acted of his own volition, but it was he wholly came up with many of the specific changes. And those changes sucked.
And let us not forget: Toilet Boy has not done anything with crafting systems since then. He moved on to DCUO and that game had no crafting at all and was console fodder. Most of us want a more complex game, and this guy was in charge of a shallow console-ized PS game.
So what is the reason for this unbridled optimism?
If there is one, it is Koster getting his hand in MMOs again.
Should we really to expect a rational take on this from a guy who keeps calling another person toilet boy?
That was his unofficial moniker back in the day, because at one point, he said in an interview or podcast that "If SOE management told me to put a toilet in my living room, I'd do it." Or words to that effect.
After that the nickname stuck with him, especially among non-SOE apologists.
Well, one of the best ways to advance in your craft is to learn from your mistakes. Let's hope he has learned from his and move on. This game has not even been officially announced yet and you're not wanting to give it a chance simply because of a mistake made by one of the many creators years ago. If him being here is that much of a deal breaker for you I think you would have moved on by now but it seems you still have some hope in this game. In 27 days, 23 hours and 21 minutes we will know a lot more than we know now and you can make more of a decision. Even then though I think the game will have a long way to go before any decisions can be made for or against it.
Well, the crafting part souds nice. Now pls say you'll have nicely animated characters/skills (look to certain Korean games for inspiration since they seem to do better on that front imo) and a semi-decent combat system and ur set. And pls spend more time on end-game than on levelling content that a lot of people (pretty much everyone I know and ever knew in MMOs) just rush through.
It's about time Raph Koster got back into the scene. I've been wondering if he was ever going to come back into the mainstream. I look forward to the complex crafting and economy.
Full loot / full crafted etc. only works if you get the rest of the death and combat mechanics right.
It's a fine balance between the investment to create/attain an item and the risk of losing it.
You go too far one way, no one will fight unless they have enough of an advantage to make victory a sure thing - so you get a game of turtling and build up, but very little real action.
Or you go too far the other way, with investment so low death is mostly hallow, you get mass zergs and lemmings "throw corpses at the enemy until they break" kind of game play.
High on action, low on impact.
The easiest way, IMO, is what UO did - simplicity.
Difference between top-end crafted armor/weapons or enchanted items etc. and the cheap stuff was minimal - it was a sting to lose something nice, but not a game breaker. And you only had a very slight edge with better gear, it was more about numbers and tactics.
Real big difference between having Sword, Sword+1 etc.
Just for the record, my first foray into crafting was in Star Wars Galaxies, and I have to say that even today it was by far my favorite. The fact that you had resources of varying quality that would affect the overall quality of the produced item, genius! I was always on the lookout for better resources, and constantly improving on recipes. Before I knew it, I had four level 80 architects on 4 different servers, lol!
I still play with SWGEMU a little bit...but the nostalgia seems to have finally worn off.
I hope they don't cave on this kind of stuff when people inevitably complain about the crafting system. I was a huge fan of FireFall's similar (early beta) crafting system. Destructible gear, freedom of materials for crafting weapons and the stats of those weapons varying based on what is used to make the individual components...
And people complained! They thought the crafting was too complicated. They didn't want to have a choice of material for different components that made weapons of varied stats. They didn't want to loose items they made. More people got interested in the game and asked for it to be dumbed down and made casual. The devs complied and that ended the fun of (and need for) crafting.
Just for the record, my first foray into crafting was in Star Wars Galaxies, and I have to say that even today it was by far my favorite. The fact that you had resources of varying quality that would affect the overall quality of the produced item, genius! I was always on the lookout for better resources, and constantly improving on recipes. Before I knew it, I had four level 80 architects on 4 different servers, lol!
I still play with SWGEMU a little bit...but the nostalgia seems to have finally worn off.
The thing with SWG is, that everything was designed to work together, for things to work at all. All or nothing.
Raph Koster said as much in a fairly recent interview or thread I saw.
That other, sorta, kinda, not quite SWG is good for what it has, but it is not all in there or working yet, so the whole economy doesn't really work as it is supposed to.
When someone starts talking about swg crafting in their game, I just give up. They use swg to hype all the "old school players".
Originally posted by laokoko "if you want to be a game designer, you should sell your house and fund your game. Since if you won't even fund your own game, no one will".
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
That items did not deteriorate killed many a crafting career in SWG (--> architect !) - that error should not be repeated ... but being able to get a reputation for being THE BEST in a certain area was an incredibly rewarding experience in SWG.
The constant loss of ships in EVE Online is what drives the whole game, including the political stage (power struggles for resources).
Every game that can bring back such an experience is a good one IMHO.
Have fun
Yep...to this day, I can still remember the names of every crafter that I bought from. And, I was the go to guy for maxed out chef foods.
Comments
Well FFXI had a sort of take on the Critical chance idea that i still to this day am not sure if it was good or bad.They made crafting sooo slow it took a lot of effort to gain mats and craft.Anyhow what they did was raise the critical depending on your skill level in that particular craft.You had to basically be 20levels above the craft to start seeing a critical.This meant you sort of EARNED your critical or chance at one.Then at say 30+ levels above the chance % went higher none the less it was higher than the .5% the lowest was like idk 20% i think.
I feel if you are going to introduce ways of players attaining the BEST gear it should be more difficult and time consuming than simply killing a Boss for a % chance or crafting for a % chance.That really dumbs the entire RARE idea down to one system a % rare chance.I would love to see a random variance for each crafter to DISCOVER.Example combining various parts to make a super item and you would need to attain mats for those parts by GROUPING in every tier zone.This also helps the grouping and empty zones we usually see in games.
The RNG would be in the actual recipe,each crafter would have to discover what recipe for them creates the SUPER items.This also removes any wiki idea where players after one week can simply look on wiki and see the result.It also removes the need for Raiding as that again is a Wiki idea that players simply look at the first wave of success and copies it.You can even create the random generator on Bosses as well so their AI is not always the exact same each time.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
this guy has sound ideas except the "making a name for yourself". since the game world works on static rules, after some time all crafters are the same. the main differentiator being price and access to materials.
I hope the implement some kind of patent or unique crafting items system to make the crafters differ. this offers a limited time of advantage (patent expires, unique item gets damaged by use) and also another level of competition among the crafters.
Once I played an UO free shard that had wear on items and going into a large dungeon, we took a crafter with us just to repair stuff on the road. or multiple sets of items
I hope this gets in as well.
oh and Linux version ?
All nice but does it build upon SWGs ressource System?
Does it have harvesters (either with Magic or NPC Workforce)?
NPC Workforce would add a whole new depth to a "Harvester Ressource Gathering System".
I doubt htat...
"Torquemada... do not implore him for compassion. Torquemada... do not beg him for forgiveness. Torquemada... do not ask him for mercy. Let's face it, you can't Torquemada anything!"
MWO Music Video - What does the Mech say: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF6HYNqCDLI
Johnny Cash - The Man Comes Around: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0x2iwK0BKM
Well, one of the best ways to advance in your craft is to learn from your mistakes. Let's hope he has learned from his and move on. This game has not even been officially announced yet and you're not wanting to give it a chance simply because of a mistake made by one of the many creators years ago. If him being here is that much of a deal breaker for you I think you would have moved on by now but it seems you still have some hope in this game. In 27 days, 23 hours and 21 minutes we will know a lot more than we know now and you can make more of a decision. Even then though I think the game will have a long way to go before any decisions can be made for or against it.
Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher
"Everything is mine and your woman too"
Full loot / full crafted etc. only works if you get the rest of the death and combat mechanics right.
It's a fine balance between the investment to create/attain an item and the risk of losing it.
You go too far one way, no one will fight unless they have enough of an advantage to make victory a sure thing - so you get a game of turtling and build up, but very little real action.
Or you go too far the other way, with investment so low death is mostly hallow, you get mass zergs and lemmings "throw corpses at the enemy until they break" kind of game play.
High on action, low on impact.
The easiest way, IMO, is what UO did - simplicity.
Difference between top-end crafted armor/weapons or enchanted items etc. and the cheap stuff was minimal - it was a sting to lose something nice, but not a game breaker. And you only had a very slight edge with better gear, it was more about numbers and tactics.
Real big difference between having Sword, Sword+1 etc.
and Sword, Sword +100, Sword + 5,000.
And at that time connection speed lol
Just for the record, my first foray into crafting was in Star Wars Galaxies, and I have to say that even today it was by far my favorite. The fact that you had resources of varying quality that would affect the overall quality of the produced item, genius! I was always on the lookout for better resources, and constantly improving on recipes. Before I knew it, I had four level 80 architects on 4 different servers, lol!
I still play with SWGEMU a little bit...but the nostalgia seems to have finally worn off.
I hope they don't cave on this kind of stuff when people inevitably complain about the crafting system. I was a huge fan of FireFall's similar (early beta) crafting system. Destructible gear, freedom of materials for crafting weapons and the stats of those weapons varying based on what is used to make the individual components...
And people complained! They thought the crafting was too complicated. They didn't want to have a choice of material for different components that made weapons of varied stats. They didn't want to loose items they made. More people got interested in the game and asked for it to be dumbed down and made casual. The devs complied and that ended the fun of (and need for) crafting.
The thing with SWG is, that everything was designed to work together, for things to work at all. All or nothing.
Raph Koster said as much in a fairly recent interview or thread I saw.
That other, sorta, kinda, not quite SWG is good for what it has, but it is not all in there or working yet, so the whole economy doesn't really work as it is supposed to.
Originally posted by laokoko
"if you want to be a game designer, you should sell your house and fund your game. Since if you won't even fund your own game, no one will".
If you look around, I am sure they have said something about taking a feature from a game you did like.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Yep...to this day, I can still remember the names of every crafter that I bought from. And, I was the go to guy for maxed out chef foods.