I could take a screenshot of WoW servers at 4 am and it wouldn't look different.
Just saying.
Originally posted by Thestrain
Originally posted by Purutzil Depends when you look at a game. You can find any game with "Low" numbers during off hours. Pergo I'm on is still very full and crowded so I've never seen any issues with population.
I mentioned it already that the screenshot was taken at 7 pm. I waited till 12.30 to see if any server would hit medium so that i get an indication about what server to choose to play the domi side. But nope, server status never changed.
But hey whatever floats your bloat. If you think this is all due to off time..then there is nothing i can do to make you face the reality.
I see them going to keep the same path as there going much they can pull with more content, with little and small change to get players back and new players in, but when start seeing lay off or anything like that start seeing they game maybe f2p or b2p, or other hand stay sub.
But if they go any of the f2p or b2p they may end up losing more people then what they have now even faster, if they don't change the game it self, but I don't see that in the card for them yet.
you talk as if going B2P is a sign of failure !!!
look at GW2 it launched as a B2P game and despite what many naysayers here like to take as gospel, the game is doing wonderful and has been for the last 2 years.
WS focusing on the <10% minority of highly vocal raiders is what is killing the game, they should know casuals are what really keeps your game going, they outnumber hardcore players in a ratio of 100:1 and that is a low ball estimate.
Am I surprised that the game is not doing so well ? not in the slightest.
I see them going to keep the same path as there going much they can pull with more content, with little and small change to get players back and new players in, but when start seeing lay off or anything like that start seeing they game maybe f2p or b2p, or other hand stay sub.
But if they go any of the f2p or b2p they may end up losing more people then what they have now even faster, if they don't change the game it self, but I don't see that in the card for them yet.
you talk as if going B2P is a sign of failure !!!
look at GW2 it launched as a B2P game and despite what many naysayers here like to take as gospel, the game is doing wonderful and has been for the last 2 years.
WS focusing on the <10% minority of highly vocal raiders is what is killing the game, they should know casuals are what really keeps your game going, they outnumber hardcore players in a ratio of 100:1 and that is a low ball estimate.
Am I surprised that the game is not doing so well ? not in the slightest.
Failure to succeed in your business plan, is a failure, or is it not?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I see them going to keep the same path as there going much they can pull with more content, with little and small change to get players back and new players in, but when start seeing lay off or anything like that start seeing they game maybe f2p or b2p, or other hand stay sub.
But if they go any of the f2p or b2p they may end up losing more people then what they have now even faster, if they don't change the game it self, but I don't see that in the card for them yet.
you talk as if going B2P is a sign of failure !!!
look at GW2 it launched as a B2P game and despite what many naysayers here like to take as gospel, the game is doing wonderful and has been for the last 2 years.
WS focusing on the <10% minority of highly vocal raiders is what is killing the game, they should know casuals are what really keeps your game going, they outnumber hardcore players in a ratio of 100:1 and that is a low ball estimate.
Am I surprised that the game is not doing so well ? not in the slightest.
Failure to succeed in your business plan, is a failure, or is it not?
I think failure to adapt is even a bigger failure. Out of the two recently launched, sub-based MMOs, I'm wondering who is going to blink first.
... i don't even know where to re roll anymore. I have stopped my sub for now but still got two weeks of play time left. Where do i go now? my server where i have my main is completely dead. I saw total of 5 people in Thayd in last 6 days.
It's called the "linear quest hub design" phenomenon. This is what happens when you design a game as a beginning-to-middle-to-end "story" instead of a "world." People get through the "story", find out it wasn't all that, then discover they cannot bear to go through it again.
What AMAZES me is that some companies are still laying down millions on this failed design method.
I just played Age a Wulin, what is basically an open world game where quests hub isn't really the point, yet that doesn't seem to be fairing well, they even had a server merge from 3 servers to 1. A tale in the desert seems to be doing okay but no where near the level of what these bigger games are, won't even go into mortal online and it's ilk, that explains itself.
Seeing as it seems "failure" and success happen to both sides of the spectrum, it would seem that if something is indeed failing here that it would be something other than the design of the game. People leave sandbox and not quest hub games just as fast as quest hub ones, in fact one of the most well known quest hub games is WoW which lasted for what seems like forever.
I'm not saying there isn't a flaw in the design of these games, just that it may not be the quest hub design and it may infact just be a red herring.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
well I still hold the position that its the mostly the art style choice that has made most gamers not interested but in all fairness I said the same thing about WoW
It's not the art style that killed it for me. It was the boring grind.
Same here. I am through with linear quest grinders and super fast progression systems games.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
... i don't even know where to re roll anymore. I have stopped my sub for now but still got two weeks of play time left. Where do i go now? my server where i have my main is completely dead. I saw total of 5 people in Thayd in last 6 days.
It's called the "linear quest hub design" phenomenon. This is what happens when you design a game as a beginning-to-middle-to-end "story" instead of a "world." People get through the "story", find out it wasn't all that, then discover they cannot bear to go through it again.
What AMAZES me is that some companies are still laying down millions on this failed design method.
Unlike WoW that has the exact same design and is the most popular game in history!!!!!
It's not the quest design that is the problem it is how boring, annoying and repetitive they made it.
When the mob counter started going up by 1% per kill is when i stopped playing.
I seriously doubt it has anything to do with the quest hub design. People play games where they grind mobs ad nauseum and still play it. Quest grinding is not it.
It is a mixture of the difficulty to carry off grouping skills meaning like healing support,tanking and mixing that with avoiding all these telegraphs. A majority of the player base like most MMORPG players may actually not be good enough to do this as I pointed out in a thread sometime ago before the game launched.
So when grouping dies a game based on an end game that requires heavy grouping will die too. They may have catered to a very elite hard core raiding design for those type of players but not all of them are twitch skilled.
Look at FFXIV ARR it has grouping coming out of its ear. I do a minimum of three dungeons a day because I love to group and heal and that game is so crowded everywhere. It's doing very well and it also a quest hub game. That is not the reason at all.
... i don't even know where to re roll anymore. I have stopped my sub for now but still got two weeks of play time left. Where do i go now? my server where i have my main is completely dead. I saw total of 5 people in Thayd in last 6 days.
It's called the "linear quest hub design" phenomenon. This is what happens when you design a game as a beginning-to-middle-to-end "story" instead of a "world." People get through the "story", find out it wasn't all that, then discover they cannot bear to go through it again.
What AMAZES me is that some companies are still laying down millions on this failed design method.
Unlike WoW that has the exact same design and is the most popular game in history!!!!!
It's not the quest design that is the problem it is how boring, annoying and repetitive they made it.
Well, I don't know. I suspect that if WoW started all over again people would find it pretty boring. I think the MMO gaming population has matured since the days of WoW. WoW brought in a lot of players who weren't really comfortable with the idea of a MMO by holding their hands and giving them a lot of what they were used to from games so that the MMO part didn't overwhelm them. Questing and story is that single-player experience.
But what has happened is that these players are all now more mature, and they don't really need hand holding anymore, yet games continue to design themselves around this model because it served WoW so well. What these companies don't understand is that WoW drew in new customers and made the wider culture familiar with the MMORPG, but now gamers are familiar with the MMORPG. Training wheels might make sense on a kids bike, but eventually the kid grows up, and when they do they sure as hell don't want those training wheels on their new bike.
Originally posted by TankYou88 Wildstar is still in the Top 20 most played PC games right now tons of people playing are still talking about how populated the later areas are still, even the smaller servers. Carbine has also said their servers are bigger than other games, low population can count for medium or high on other games.
Which top 20 you talking about here?
And your comment make absolutely no sense. If low on Wildstar means medium then how do you explain the servers where you find total of 10 people in Thyad? they are low and Stormtalon which is claimed to be most active server is also sitting on low.
I seriously doubt it has anything to do with the quest hub design. People play games where they grind mobs ad nauseum and still play it. Quest grinding is not it.
It is a mixture of the difficulty to carry off grouping skills meaning like healing support,tanking and mixing that with avoiding all these telegraphs. A majority of the player base like most MMORPG players may actually not be good enough to do this as I pointed out in a thread sometime ago before the game launched.
So when grouping dies a game based on an end game that requires heavy grouping will die too. They may have catered to a very elite hard core raiding design for those type of players but not all of them are twitch skilled.
Look at FFXIV ARR it has grouping coming out of its ear. I do a minimum of three dungeons a day because I love to group and heal and that game is so crowded everywhere. It's doing very well and it also a quest hub game. That is not the reason at all.
I completely agree. Grouping is the heart and soul of the MMORPG, and somehow in the mid-2000s the culture became convinced that grouping was the problem, not the cure, and it has all been downhill ever since. I would go so far as to say that alone is the problem that drags down modern MMOs, and that all of these other issues are really just side dressing.
For example, questing and linear story is often pointed to as the problem with modern MMOs. You will find few people that despise these things more than me. But when I think hard about it, I realize that I hate these things ONLY because they are forced upon me. Because I have no other way of completing the content, and because I cannot complete these things in any other realistic way than to solo them. Even FFXIV suffers from this, forcing you to solo your way through the primary story. If not for the strong group content and community, I wouldn't have lasted a week. But many games have this kind of forced soloing without the benefits of strong group content! The forced solo game play, for most modern MMOs, has become mandatory -- grouping optional. It is for this reason that I have come to despise the solo-questing grind. If the grind were optional, if you could do it just to kill time, I really wouldn't have any issue with it. Which is to say, if the group content were sufficiently strong such that I could avoid solo-grind entirely, then having the solo option would be greatly welcomed at times.
So, in and of itself quest grind is not it. But, unfortunately the reality is that quest grind almost always comes at the expense of other ways of playing and enjoying the game -- in short it is forced -- and that is why many point to it as the #1 problem.
Originally posted by TankYou88 Wildstar is still in the Top 20 most played PC games right now tons of people playing are still talking about how populated the later areas are still, even the smaller servers. Carbine has also said their servers are bigger than other games, low population can count for medium or high on other games.
Which top 20 you talking about here?
And your comment make absolutely no sense. If low on Wildstar means medium then how do you explain the servers where you find total of 10 people in Thyad? they are low and Stormtalon which is claimed to be most active server is also sitting on low.
This.
If the low range for one game is <100 players, and the low range for another game is <200 players, it does not make a blind bit of difference when there are only 50 players on the server.
Originally posted by TankYou88 Wildstar is still in the Top 20 most played PC games right now tons of people playing are still talking about how populated the later areas are still, even the smaller servers. Carbine has also said their servers are bigger than other games, low population can count for medium or high on other games.
Which top 20 you talking about here?
And your comment make absolutely no sense. If low on Wildstar means medium then how do you explain the servers where you find total of 10 people in Thyad? they are low and Stormtalon which is claimed to be most active server is also sitting on low.
I finally decided to try Wildstar this weekend. Rolled a character on Stormtalon. Played most of the day. It is a freaking ghost town . . . I am in utter shock. Last time I felt like I was playing a game this barren was when I tried Auto-Assault. That's scary.
My exile is on Thunderfoot (level 34 atm) and I always see plenty of people out and about while leveling. Not sure how this realm is at level 50 but.. the population at the moment always seems fine to me despite always having the "low" tag.
I've heard there are a lot of population issues dominion side on various realms though.
I also think Carbine should adjust their "low/medium" population threshold a bit...
Make it so when a realm says Low it is actually very low.. make medium a big range like WoW does.
If you have been on a Low-pop wow realm its usually a complete ghost-town.. at least before the virtual realms happened
So this doesn't seem very promising... I was going to buy the game - I usually unfortunately buy most games - but the doom and gloom is strong in this one...
Any of you playing the game - or just in the know - know if Wildstar will be doing trial passes or weekend things? I was looking for a buddy pass but no luck, and feel I should try it before I buy.
So this doesn't seem very promising... I was going to buy the game - I usually unfortunately buy most games - but the doom and gloom is strong in this one...
Any of you playing the game - or just in the know - know if Wildstar will be doing trial passes or weekend things? I was looking for a buddy pass but no luck, and feel I should try it before I buy.
Hey I can throw you a guest pass! Don't listen to all the turds. If you want a game that requires you to be social and cooperate in order to be successful then Wildstar is for you. If you are looking for a solo game with faceroll endgame content then it is not. I will PM you a GP.
Free to play = content updates for the cash shop. Buy to play = content updates for the cash shop. Subscription = Actual content updates!
So this doesn't seem very promising... I was going to buy the game - I usually unfortunately buy most games - but the doom and gloom is strong in this one...
Any of you playing the game - or just in the know - know if Wildstar will be doing trial passes or weekend things? I was looking for a buddy pass but no luck, and feel I should try it before I buy.
Hey I can throw you a guest pass! Don't listen to all the turds. If you want a game that requires you to be social and cooperate in order to be successful then Wildstar is for you. If you are looking for a solo game with faceroll endgame content then it is not. I will PM you a GP.
What?
Can you name me on themeaprk MMO where you can faceroll all end game content solo? wtf really.
The comments by fans are getting really absurd on this topic.
Wildstar your typical themepark MMO where you solo from lvl 1 to 50 and then hop on the hamster wheel for gear grind.
Yes just like every single themepark MMO that existed before Wildstar.
Stop trying to fool people into thinking WS is more social or group oriented.
So this doesn't seem very promising... I was going to buy the game - I usually unfortunately buy most games - but the doom and gloom is strong in this one...
Any of you playing the game - or just in the know - know if Wildstar will be doing trial passes or weekend things? I was looking for a buddy pass but no luck, and feel I should try it before I buy.
Hey I can throw you a guest pass! Don't listen to all the turds. If you want a game that requires you to be social and cooperate in order to be successful then Wildstar is for you. If you are looking for a solo game with faceroll endgame content then it is not. I will PM you a GP.
What?
Can you name me on themeaprk MMO where you can faceroll all end game content solo? wtf really.
The comments by fans are getting really absurd on this topic.
Wildstar your typical themepark MMO where you solo from lvl 1 to 50 and then hop on the hamster wheel for gear grind.
Yes just like every single themepark MMO that existed before Wildstar.
Stop trying to fool people into thinking WS is more social or group oriented.
You can play WoW from beginning to endgame raids without ever talking to another person by using the LFR system.
Free to play = content updates for the cash shop. Buy to play = content updates for the cash shop. Subscription = Actual content updates!
Not sure I would call LFR endgame...more like practice and getting ready for endgame. That is like says college sports is the pinnacle of sport competition.
So this doesn't seem very promising... I was going to buy the game - I usually unfortunately buy most games - but the doom and gloom is strong in this one...
Any of you playing the game - or just in the know - know if Wildstar will be doing trial passes or weekend things? I was looking for a buddy pass but no luck, and feel I should try it before I buy.
Hey I can throw you a guest pass! Don't listen to all the turds. If you want a game that requires you to be social and cooperate in order to be successful then Wildstar is for you. If you are looking for a solo game with faceroll endgame content then it is not. I will PM you a GP.
What?
Can you name me on themeaprk MMO where you can faceroll all end game content solo? wtf really.
The comments by fans are getting really absurd on this topic.
Wildstar your typical themepark MMO where you solo from lvl 1 to 50 and then hop on the hamster wheel for gear grind.
Yes just like every single themepark MMO that existed before Wildstar.
Stop trying to fool people into thinking WS is more social or group oriented.
You can play WoW from beginning to endgame raids without ever talking to another person by using the LFR system.
That is not same as facerolling end game content solo. I did dungeons in Wildstar and my experince has been same. People know the fights and just do what they have to and don't need to speak to one another. The most words i heard were 'don't stand in red', 'hello' and 'bye'.
Lot's of people, mainly them in guild, are still plugging having a great time in WS. Things don't look so good now, but give it a few more months. People will knock out a year's expansion in WOW in a week, quit come back. People will flock to AA, figure out what that game really is (no comment). Come back. It's all good in the Nexus hood my Chua's !
Just look how much fun pvp is again in ONE patch ! Carbine is busting their booties to get things back on track. It may take till Dec , but they'll pull through !
Comments
you talk as if going B2P is a sign of failure !!!
look at GW2 it launched as a B2P game and despite what many naysayers here like to take as gospel, the game is doing wonderful and has been for the last 2 years.
WS focusing on the <10% minority of highly vocal raiders is what is killing the game, they should know casuals are what really keeps your game going, they outnumber hardcore players in a ratio of 100:1 and that is a low ball estimate.
Am I surprised that the game is not doing so well ? not in the slightest.
Failure to succeed in your business plan, is a failure, or is it not?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I think failure to adapt is even a bigger failure. Out of the two recently launched, sub-based MMOs, I'm wondering who is going to blink first.
"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor
I just played Age a Wulin, what is basically an open world game where quests hub isn't really the point, yet that doesn't seem to be fairing well, they even had a server merge from 3 servers to 1. A tale in the desert seems to be doing okay but no where near the level of what these bigger games are, won't even go into mortal online and it's ilk, that explains itself.
Seeing as it seems "failure" and success happen to both sides of the spectrum, it would seem that if something is indeed failing here that it would be something other than the design of the game. People leave sandbox and not quest hub games just as fast as quest hub ones, in fact one of the most well known quest hub games is WoW which lasted for what seems like forever.
I'm not saying there isn't a flaw in the design of these games, just that it may not be the quest hub design and it may infact just be a red herring.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Same here. I am through with linear quest grinders and super fast progression systems games.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Unlike WoW that has the exact same design and is the most popular game in history!!!!!
It's not the quest design that is the problem it is how boring, annoying and repetitive they made it.
When the mob counter started going up by 1% per kill is when i stopped playing.
I seriously doubt it has anything to do with the quest hub design. People play games where they grind mobs ad nauseum and still play it. Quest grinding is not it.
It is a mixture of the difficulty to carry off grouping skills meaning like healing support,tanking and mixing that with avoiding all these telegraphs. A majority of the player base like most MMORPG players may actually not be good enough to do this as I pointed out in a thread sometime ago before the game launched.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/6346287#6346287
So when grouping dies a game based on an end game that requires heavy grouping will die too. They may have catered to a very elite hard core raiding design for those type of players but not all of them are twitch skilled.
Look at FFXIV ARR it has grouping coming out of its ear. I do a minimum of three dungeons a day because I love to group and heal and that game is so crowded everywhere. It's doing very well and it also a quest hub game. That is not the reason at all.
Well, I don't know. I suspect that if WoW started all over again people would find it pretty boring. I think the MMO gaming population has matured since the days of WoW. WoW brought in a lot of players who weren't really comfortable with the idea of a MMO by holding their hands and giving them a lot of what they were used to from games so that the MMO part didn't overwhelm them. Questing and story is that single-player experience.
But what has happened is that these players are all now more mature, and they don't really need hand holding anymore, yet games continue to design themselves around this model because it served WoW so well. What these companies don't understand is that WoW drew in new customers and made the wider culture familiar with the MMORPG, but now gamers are familiar with the MMORPG. Training wheels might make sense on a kids bike, but eventually the kid grows up, and when they do they sure as hell don't want those training wheels on their new bike.
Which top 20 you talking about here?
And your comment make absolutely no sense. If low on Wildstar means medium then how do you explain the servers where you find total of 10 people in Thyad? they are low and Stormtalon which is claimed to be most active server is also sitting on low.
I completely agree. Grouping is the heart and soul of the MMORPG, and somehow in the mid-2000s the culture became convinced that grouping was the problem, not the cure, and it has all been downhill ever since. I would go so far as to say that alone is the problem that drags down modern MMOs, and that all of these other issues are really just side dressing.
For example, questing and linear story is often pointed to as the problem with modern MMOs. You will find few people that despise these things more than me. But when I think hard about it, I realize that I hate these things ONLY because they are forced upon me. Because I have no other way of completing the content, and because I cannot complete these things in any other realistic way than to solo them. Even FFXIV suffers from this, forcing you to solo your way through the primary story. If not for the strong group content and community, I wouldn't have lasted a week. But many games have this kind of forced soloing without the benefits of strong group content! The forced solo game play, for most modern MMOs, has become mandatory -- grouping optional. It is for this reason that I have come to despise the solo-questing grind. If the grind were optional, if you could do it just to kill time, I really wouldn't have any issue with it. Which is to say, if the group content were sufficiently strong such that I could avoid solo-grind entirely, then having the solo option would be greatly welcomed at times.
So, in and of itself quest grind is not it. But, unfortunately the reality is that quest grind almost always comes at the expense of other ways of playing and enjoying the game -- in short it is forced -- and that is why many point to it as the #1 problem.
This.
If the low range for one game is <100 players, and the low range for another game is <200 players, it does not make a blind bit of difference when there are only 50 players on the server.
I finally decided to try Wildstar this weekend. Rolled a character on Stormtalon. Played most of the day. It is a freaking ghost town . . . I am in utter shock. Last time I felt like I was playing a game this barren was when I tried Auto-Assault. That's scary.
I can easily explain this.
We have a lot of poor and low income gamers out there. REMEMBER the whole craze on CREDD and being able to play to pay for your subscription?
Like I said from the beginning...they'll have to work hard to enable their "F2P" option.
I guess it just goes to show you what kind of people these gamers are.
The game is a ton of fun and my server is well populated. Stormtalon. Always tons of people about in the city.
Free to play = content updates for the cash shop. Buy to play = content updates for the cash shop.
Subscription = Actual content updates!
My exile is on Thunderfoot (level 34 atm) and I always see plenty of people out and about while leveling. Not sure how this realm is at level 50 but.. the population at the moment always seems fine to me despite always having the "low" tag.
I've heard there are a lot of population issues dominion side on various realms though.
I also think Carbine should adjust their "low/medium" population threshold a bit...
Make it so when a realm says Low it is actually very low.. make medium a big range like WoW does.
If you have been on a Low-pop wow realm its usually a complete ghost-town.. at least before the virtual realms happened
You can earn enough plat for a CREDD in a day if you push it. You barely have to try to make it in a month.
Free to play = content updates for the cash shop. Buy to play = content updates for the cash shop.
Subscription = Actual content updates!
Don't count on it. I have a feeling Archeage is going to fail even faster than Wildstar.
So this doesn't seem very promising... I was going to buy the game - I usually unfortunately buy most games - but the doom and gloom is strong in this one...
Any of you playing the game - or just in the know - know if Wildstar will be doing trial passes or weekend things? I was looking for a buddy pass but no luck, and feel I should try it before I buy.
Hey I can throw you a guest pass! Don't listen to all the turds. If you want a game that requires you to be social and cooperate in order to be successful then Wildstar is for you. If you are looking for a solo game with faceroll endgame content then it is not. I will PM you a GP.
Free to play = content updates for the cash shop. Buy to play = content updates for the cash shop.
Subscription = Actual content updates!
What?
Can you name me on themeaprk MMO where you can faceroll all end game content solo? wtf really.
The comments by fans are getting really absurd on this topic.
Wildstar your typical themepark MMO where you solo from lvl 1 to 50 and then hop on the hamster wheel for gear grind.
Yes just like every single themepark MMO that existed before Wildstar.
Stop trying to fool people into thinking WS is more social or group oriented.
You can play WoW from beginning to endgame raids without ever talking to another person by using the LFR system.
Free to play = content updates for the cash shop. Buy to play = content updates for the cash shop.
Subscription = Actual content updates!
That is not same as facerolling end game content solo. I did dungeons in Wildstar and my experince has been same. People know the fights and just do what they have to and don't need to speak to one another. The most words i heard were 'don't stand in red', 'hello' and 'bye'.
Lot's of people, mainly them in guild, are still plugging having a great time in WS. Things don't look so good now, but give it a few more months. People will knock out a year's expansion in WOW in a week, quit come back. People will flock to AA, figure out what that game really is (no comment). Come back. It's all good in the Nexus hood my Chua's !
Just look how much fun pvp is again in ONE patch ! Carbine is busting their booties to get things back on track. It may take till Dec , but they'll pull through !