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Why is WoW listed at the lowest of difficulty?

Simet196Simet196 Chicago, ILPosts: 3Member

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/152355/Looking-For-A-New-MMO-Check-Here-First.html
 here at Section 6.

Isn't it challenging enough? I see the message was last edited in 2008. That was arguably a good period of WoW. So how come?

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Comments

  • djnestrickdjnestrick DeLand, FLPosts: 43Member

    The year was 2009. Our guild was doing one of the easy and short raids. I don't remember which. A dps needed to leave and we are stuck a man short. I ask my warlock brother, who was also online but not part of the guild, to join in. He agrees.

    Pull is delayed because he hasn't buffed up. Raid leader asks for a soul well so everyone can get a cookie. He asks, "What's a soul well?"

    After some questions (luckily before the pull), we found out that even though he has a max level toon he has NEVER been in a group. He leveled from 1 - max using three spells. This is truth. Also, this was his main toon. One of 5 max level toons he had.

    I hope that answers your question.

  • jusomdudejusomdude Somewhere, KSPosts: 2,401Member
    If ~99% of the population that plays the game can't finish the heroic content... the game isn't easy. I bet most people that call WoW easy haven't finished the heroic content.
  • iridescenceiridescence Elliot Lake, ONPosts: 1,486Member

    Are you trying to say that WoW isn't an extremely easy game for a new player to pick up? I don't think that list is taking hardcore raiding or highest level PVP into account since it was intended for *new* players.

     

    Better question...did you really have to start a whole thread over some outdated 5 year old list? At least put it in the WoW section.

     

  • MMOExposedMMOExposed lalal land, DCPosts: 6,255Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by djnestrick

    The year was 2009. Our guild was doing one of the easy and short raids. I don't remember which. A dps needed to leave and we are stuck a man short. I ask my warlock brother, who was also online but not part of the guild, to join in. He agrees.

    Pull is delayed because he hasn't buffed up. Raid leader asks for a soul well so everyone can get a cookie. He asks, "What's a soul well?"

    After some questions (luckily before the pull), we found out that even though he has a max level toon he has NEVER been in a group. He leveled from 1 - max using three spells. This is truth. Also, this was his main toon. One of 5 max level toons he had.

    I hope that answers your question.

    So it's the game's easy fault that your guild asked a novice to join a raid?... Okay....

    image

  • MMOExposedMMOExposed lalal land, DCPosts: 6,255Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by iridescence

    Are you trying to say that WoW isn't an extremely easy game for a new player to pick up? I don't think that list is taking hardcore raiding or highest level PVP into account since it was intended for *new* players.

     

    Every game is easy to play, but hard to master.

    image

  • MMOExposedMMOExposed lalal land, DCPosts: 6,255Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jusomdude
    If ~99% of the population that plays the game can't finish the heroic content... the game isn't easy. I bet most people that call WoW easy haven't finished the heroic content.

    "Easy" isn't really what is meant when used in WoW's context. It's simply Codeword for the hate groups.has no real meaning. Once you understand the social politics in that, you will understand.

     

    image

  • greatskysgreatskys marlboroughPosts: 449Member

    Most people that argue that WoW is still challenging usually refer to a part of the endgame content such as heroics while ignoring the changes that have been made to the rest of the game over the years . 

    To really see how much has changed you would probably have to play on a private server and you will see how much Blizzard have streamlined the game over the years . Its that streamlining that has made it for the most part the easiest mmo out there . 

    Some of the changes have been very big . The introduction of looking for a group tools on pvp servers led to world pvp becoming no existent , you no longer have to explore the maps and find flight paths , xp is granted at a much faster rate , Battlegrounds never used to have resources and they could last for hours before one side of the other won , the amount of players required to do a raid was higher than it is now , getting epic gear used to be very hard to do . You lalso used to have character trees which you could tailor to you own taste ( in a similar way to Rift do now ) . It used to be fun to create your own spec . 

    but there are also a huge number of small changes which have had a cumulative effect on the level of the games difficulty too . For example hunters could only set one trap at a time , they had to buy arrows but you could buy all sort of different types of arrow as well which used to be fun . 

    Yes there may be a little endgame content that still offers some challenge but you have to wade through all that dross before you get to it which maybe why they are offering instant high level characters in the expansion .

    I know lots of people in other games that have played WoW in the past and their reason for leaving is the same as might it became too easy . So I imagine this push to simplify the game backfired and led to WoW declining subscriber base . The thing is if they were to try and reverse things now they probably would upset the population they have now that probably don't remember what WoW used to be like in its heyday . 

     

    While there may be easier mmos out there I have yet to experience one . 

  • LudwikLudwik Rochester, NYPosts: 401Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jusomdude
    If ~99% of the population that plays the game can't finish the heroic content... the game isn't easy. I bet most people that call WoW easy haven't finished the heroic content.

     

    Well, that depends.

    By Blizzard's own numbers, only 1.3% of the player base has even attempted a raid and only 0.9% has attempted a herioc raid. If all 0.9% of players that have attempted a herioc raid have been able to complete it, I would say that constitutes 'easy'.

  • Mr.KujoMr.Kujo SwinoujsciePosts: 383Member

    What is the point of grading difficulty of a game that has few levels of difficulty? Is it supposed to say how easy is easy difficulty, or how hard is hard difficulty?

    I would say it is the first option. It is supposed how easy it is for a regular player to get pass all the basic content, it makes the most sense. It would be stupid to rate a game by it's hardcore difficulty that is basically made for a small percentage of whole player base.

  • SatsunoryuSatsunoryu Mishawaka, INPosts: 285Member

    I get the whole argument about not finishing WoW's furthest end-game content to properly gauge its difficulty and I'll say it right away, I haven't in any recent time.  So I cannot determine how difficult it is or isn't.  I realize this is what counts to most.

    However, my fiance and I wanted to return to enjoy the game not so long ago, and we were excited.  Rolled new toons, started are new adventure.  The questing, dungeoning, etc., in the leveling process is mind-numbingly easy.  To the point where even she, a completely brand-new MMORPG gamer, got bored around 40 and commented that it felt too easy.  We were just rolling over everything without any thought.  I understand leveling in WoW isn't the focus of the game these days, however it should be more difficult than it is, at LEAST in the dungeons.  They could still be very fun to level through with a tweak of the difficulty.

    To add further to this whole post, my 5 year old niece has so far gotten to level 55ish, with completely red, broken gear, and really doesn't know what she is doing.  She is still successfully leveling her toon.  Sorry, but that's just too damn easy.

  • lickm3lickm3 PilsenPosts: 150Member


    Originally posted by jusomdude
    If ~99% of the population that plays the game can't finish the heroic content... the game isn't easy. I bet most people that call WoW easy haven't finished the heroic content.


    Bullshit, even trained monkey with average IQ of 40 can finish the heroics. It's about how the people can cooperate together and how good they remember which/what every boss does. Of course at beginning will people wipe before they get used the mechanics. End of the story.

    “Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.”? -Albert Einstein

  • DakeruDakeru Posts: 1,637Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by MMOExposed
    Originally posted by djnestrick

    The year was 2009. Our guild was doing one of the easy and short raids. I don't remember which. A dps needed to leave and we are stuck a man short. I ask my warlock brother, who was also online but not part of the guild, to join in. He agrees.

    Pull is delayed because he hasn't buffed up. Raid leader asks for a soul well so everyone can get a cookie. He asks, "What's a soul well?"

    After some questions (luckily before the pull), we found out that even though he has a max level toon he has NEVER been in a group. He leveled from 1 - max using three spells. This is truth. Also, this was his main toon. One of 5 max level toons he had.

    I hope that answers your question.

    So it's the game's easy fault that your guild asked a novice to join a raid?... Okay....

    Looks like you feel a little personally attacked in this thread, since you feel obliged to answer everyone?

     

    What he actually said was that his brother got to max level using only 3 spells without any problems.

    So much for the difficulty of the game.

    I have an entitlement delusion - because I have this strange idea that my 50$ should have the same value as anyone else's 50$
    "Your account is not entitled to the same value as a new account. Just saying you are entitled to the same as someone else because you said so is exactly what expresses your entitlement issues."

  • jusomdudejusomdude Somewhere, KSPosts: 2,401Member
    Originally posted by greatskys

    Most people that argue that WoW is still challenging usually refer to a part of the endgame content such as heroics while ignoring the changes that have been made to the rest of the game over the years . 

    To really see how much has changed you would probably have to play on a private server and you will see how much Blizzard have streamlined the game over the years . Its that streamlining that has made it for the most part the easiest mmo out there . 

    Some of the changes have been very big . The introduction of looking for a group tools on pvp servers led to world pvp becoming no existent , you no longer have to explore the maps and find flight paths , xp is granted at a much faster rate , Battlegrounds never used to have resources and they could last for hours before one side of the other won , the amount of players required to do a raid was higher than it is now , getting epic gear used to be very hard to do . 

    but there are also a huge number of small changes which have had a cumulative effect on the level of the games difficulty too . 

     

    Yes there may be a little endgame content that still offers some challenge but you have to wade through all that dross before you get to it which maybe why they are offering instant high level characters in the expansion .

     

    While there may be easier mmos out there I have yet to experience one . 

    Pretty much all the things you listed don't make the game any more difficult, but are more quality of life changes.

    You can still feel special about your gear with uniquely colored gear from heroics, if you really need to.

  • greatskysgreatskys marlboroughPosts: 449Member
    Originally posted by Satsunoryu

    I get the whole argument about not finishing WoW's furthest end-game content to properly gauge its difficulty and I'll say it right away, I haven't in any recent time.  So I cannot determine how difficult it is or isn't.  I realize this is what counts to most.

    However, my fiance and I wanted to return to enjoy the game not so long ago, and we were excited.  Rolled new toons, started are new adventure.  The questing, dungeoning, etc., in the leveling process is mind-numbingly easy.  To the point where even she, a completely brand-new MMORPG gamer, got bored around 40 and commented that it felt too easy.  We were just rolling over everything without any thought.  I understand leveling in WoW isn't the focus of the game these days, however it should be more difficult than it is, at LEAST in the dungeons.  They could still be very fun to level through with a tweak of the difficulty.

    To add further to this whole post, my 5 year old niece has so far gotten to level 55ish, with completely red, broken gear, and really doesn't know what she is doing.  She is still successfully leveling her toon.  Sorry, but that's just too damn easy.

    I actually brought WoW as a Christmas present for my niece a couple of years ago when she was 9  years old . She only played it for a few months and quit because she said it was "too easy and was a game for younger children" which I must admit made me howl with laughter (bless her) and went to play minecraft instead .Havn't a clue what minecrafts like beyond it being a building game but shes still playing it now . 

  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,128Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jusomdude
    If ~99% of the population that plays the game can't finish the heroic content... the game isn't easy. I bet most people that call WoW easy haven't finished the heroic content.

    By that logic, then nearly every MMO must be extremely difficult.

    Most MMO gamers (and I'm not talking about those on these forums) seem to be fairly incapable of making their way through dungeon content. As ridiculous as that sounds. Now part of that is likely a time commitment issue, but still. In every game with endgame dungeons, an overwhelming majority of the population can't (or doesn't) finish the content.

    This was true of WoW, of EQ2, of LotRO, of TSW, of WildStar, of Rift, of FFXIV:ARR. And yet these games are all easier than many of the other non-MMO games I've played.

    When people were first raiding in WoW, it was difficult. The game was buggy, laggy, and people were still figuring this stuff out. Since then, the game has continued to get easier and easier. It is not a difficult game, and the few people I know still playing it aren't disillusioned of this fact.

  • doodphacedoodphace Vancouver, BCPosts: 1,815Member
    Originally posted by Ludwik
    Originally posted by jusomdude
    If ~99% of the population that plays the game can't finish the heroic content... the game isn't easy. I bet most people that call WoW easy haven't finished the heroic content.

     

    Well, that depends.

    By Blizzard's own numbers, only 1.3% of the player base has even attempted a raid and only 0.9% has attempted a herioc raid. If all 0.9% of players that have attempted a herioc raid have been able to complete it, I would say that constitutes 'easy'.

    I have no clue where you are getting your numbers, but over 75% of all endgame charecter's had completed at least some bosses of the last few raid tiers on at least 1 of the raid difficulties, let alone just "attempted them". Heroic on the other hand is a different story, heorics are consistantly in the very low single digits.

    WoW's heoric raids are the hardest raid encounters in the industry, yes that includes Wildstar.

     

  • greatskysgreatskys marlboroughPosts: 449Member
    Originally posted by jusomdude
    Originally posted by greatskys

    Most people that argue that WoW is still challenging usually refer to a part of the endgame content such as heroics while ignoring the changes that have been made to the rest of the game over the years . 

    To really see how much has changed you would probably have to play on a private server and you will see how much Blizzard have streamlined the game over the years . Its that streamlining that has made it for the most part the easiest mmo out there . 

    Some of the changes have been very big . The introduction of looking for a group tools on pvp servers led to world pvp becoming no existent , you no longer have to explore the maps and find flight paths , xp is granted at a much faster rate , Battlegrounds never used to have resources and they could last for hours before one side of the other won , the amount of players required to do a raid was higher than it is now , getting epic gear used to be very hard to do . 

    but there are also a huge number of small changes which have had a cumulative effect on the level of the games difficulty too . 

     

    Yes there may be a little endgame content that still offers some challenge but you have to wade through all that dross before you get to it which maybe why they are offering instant high level characters in the expansion .

     

    While there may be easier mmos out there I have yet to experience one . 

    Pretty much all the things you listed don't make the game any more difficult, but are more quality of life changes.

    You can still feel special about your gear with uniquely colored gear from heroics, if you really need to.

    I never said they made the game more difficult I said they made the game easier . 

  • greatskysgreatskys marlboroughPosts: 449Member
    Originally posted by doodphace
    Originally posted by Ludwik
    Originally posted by jusomdude
    If ~99% of the population that plays the game can't finish the heroic content... the game isn't easy. I bet most people that call WoW easy haven't finished the heroic content.

     

    Well, that depends.

    By Blizzard's own numbers, only 1.3% of the player base has even attempted a raid and only 0.9% has attempted a herioc raid. If all 0.9% of players that have attempted a herioc raid have been able to complete it, I would say that constitutes 'easy'.

    I have no clue where you are getting your numbers, but over 75% of all endgame charecter's had completed at least some bosses of the last few raid tiers on at least 1 of the raid difficulties, let alone just "attempted them". Heroic on the other hand is a different story, heorics are consistantly in the very low single digits.

    WoW's heoric raids are the hardest raid encounters in the industry, yes that includes Wildstar.

     

    Have you tried all other highest level raid encounters in all other games then because if you have you must have 48 hours in day an 28 days in a week . Because no one I know of has time enough to play that many games to make such a sweeping comment  .

    Had you said WoWs heroic raids are the hardest raid encounters that you have encountered in the games you played then it would be easier to believe your statement . 

  • WW4BWWW4BW KoldingPosts: 493Member
    Originally posted by Simet196

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/152355/Looking-For-A-New-MMO-Check-Here-First.html
     here at Section 6.

    Isn't it challenging enough? I see the message was last edited in 2008. That was arguably a good period of WoW. So how come?

    You must find reading challenging too. Since the post clearly states:

    Section 6: Difficulty

     _________________________________________________________________

    This section deals with the learning curve associated with a game, as well as it's complexity. A complex game will have a lot of information to learn for a newcomer, and will be more difficult to master. A simpler game will be easy to learn and play right off the bat as a newbie.

    WoW is pretty straight forward.. Tool tips and markers everywhere that you can even ignore and just steam ahead and figure it out intuitivly.. there are few arcane concepts that strain the mind.. And you dont even have to play with others to make things work.. atleast until later. 

    This is all a huge plus for WoW and the main reason so many people play it. There is a very low bar for entry.You hardly ever die and even if you do you are back in action within moments. And unless you go for massive challenges you can solo anything at your own level with any class without trouble.

    It wasnt my cup of tea. And while many agree with me, we are in the minority among MMO gamers. (or former MMO players, since games arent being made for us anymore)

  • naaminaami Dallas, TXPosts: 163Member Common

    Section 6 says:

    "This section deals with the learning curve associated with a game, as well as it's complexity. A complex game will have a lot of information to learn for a newcomer, and will be more difficult to master. A simpler game will be easy to learn and play right off the bat as a newbie."

    According to that user WoW is easy to play as a newbie relative to the other games listed.

  • jusomdudejusomdude Somewhere, KSPosts: 2,401Member
    Lol at people saying the game is easy because of leveling content... That content is made easy on purpose. If leveling was hard, barely anyone would play past the first 20 levels.
  • SatsunoryuSatsunoryu Mishawaka, INPosts: 285Member
    Originally posted by greatskys
    Originally posted by Satsunoryu

    I get the whole argument about not finishing WoW's furthest end-game content to properly gauge its difficulty and I'll say it right away, I haven't in any recent time.  So I cannot determine how difficult it is or isn't.  I realize this is what counts to most.

    However, my fiance and I wanted to return to enjoy the game not so long ago, and we were excited.  Rolled new toons, started are new adventure.  The questing, dungeoning, etc., in the leveling process is mind-numbingly easy.  To the point where even she, a completely brand-new MMORPG gamer, got bored around 40 and commented that it felt too easy.  We were just rolling over everything without any thought.  I understand leveling in WoW isn't the focus of the game these days, however it should be more difficult than it is, at LEAST in the dungeons.  They could still be very fun to level through with a tweak of the difficulty.

    To add further to this whole post, my 5 year old niece has so far gotten to level 55ish, with completely red, broken gear, and really doesn't know what she is doing.  She is still successfully leveling her toon.  Sorry, but that's just too damn easy.

    I actually brought WoW as a Christmas present for my niece a couple of years ago when she was 9  years old . She only played it for a few months and quit because she said it was "too easy and was a game for younger children" which I must admit made me howl with laughter (bless her) and went to play minecraft instead .Havn't a clue what minecrafts like beyond it being a building game but shes still playing it now . 

     

    Hahaha, that's fantastic.  Very funny.

  • deniterdeniter LappeenrantaPosts: 802Member Uncommon

    If you think Wow is easy, look at the details in WoD:

    - Raiding made simpler.

    Your inventory will be easier to manage.

    The quest interface will become even more user-friendly, making it easier to know where to go and what to do.

    - Simplified stats and gear.

    - An adventure guide to help you along.

    http://wow.joystiq.com/2013/11/15/7-things-casual-players-need-to-know-about-warlords-of-draenor/

     

  • hallucigenocidehallucigenocide GislavedPosts: 582Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jusomdude
    Lol at people saying the game is easy because of leveling content... That content is made easy on purpose. If leveling was hard, barely anyone would play past the first 20 levels.

    the majority of it's content is easy.. that does'nt mean it does'nt have hard content aswell. you have to look at the big picture and not just at a small part of the game.

     

    kek

  • dreamscaperdreamscaper Somewhere, NCPosts: 1,582Member Uncommon

    When I first started playing WoW shortly after launch, the trip to 60 was long (compared to now), lacking in amenities, and fraught with peril. Dying was a frequent occurrence, and thanks to dense mobs and quick respawns, getting overwhelmed when out by yourself was incredibly easy.

     

    Comparing the WoW of then to the WoW of now is like comparing the original Legend of Zelda to the latest Skyward Sword installment. The core gameplay is there, but the difficulty has been entirely removed and in its place is carefully paced progression that is nearly impossible to stumble on.

    <3

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