I think the idea that older gamers with more experience enjoy ship combat while the younger players do not is a bit silly.
I am 47 years old and have been playing video games since I was 13 and I am not a fan of AA.
For what AA is trying to bring to the table I very honesty prefer Wurm, Xyson and Darkfall. I think for those who are looking for things like in depth crafting, housing, farming and ship combat they really should try those games before deciding on AA.
When people say they really love AA the first thought that comes to my mind is 'the player doesnt have a lot of experience with a variety of games and is not aware of what is out there'
I'm 45 and I think those three games you listed, Wurm, Xyson and Darkfall are crap with very poor production quality.
I guess those two more years you have make you wiser than me... or not.
What doesnt make you wiser tho, is the fact that you forgot that this is YOUR opinion based on YOUR taste. I did not try wurm or xyson but from what ive seen, they are both from smaller indie compagny like darkfall. So of course it has poor production, you just cant compare darkfall to AA in terms of quality alone because Archeage had a MUCH bigger budget.
Still Darkfall is much more open world then AA and while AA feels much more polished and all that, much better feature and all, Darkfall still acomplished a lot of good things for when it first released. Especially for a first person mmorpg and open world at that.
Here is the thing though..I must have some kind of personality defect or something
1. darkfall I played and instantly feel in love the first night and played for about 3 years
2. xyson I played for 4 months but server problems killed that game for me.
3. wurm I feel in love the first night and have been playing for a year now
4. AA I played for a weekend and uninstalled it.
what is wrong with me?
Then its just not for you or you can't look past the questing. So why sit here in the forums talking about it. Go talk to people about those games you do like.
Bingo. I fail to see how a "mature" 47 year old would need to harp on how he doesn't like a a particular game for so long. It is evident that he seems to want to sway people into seeing things the way HE sees them, however, it just isn't going to happen.
Sean to answer your earlier question, yes, you seem to like games with low production value and innovative ideas. Most people don't though. I'm an avid sandbox fan but I don't want a life simulator either. I want a happy medium and archeage seems to provide that. I don't want to get my teeth kicked in every moment of the game or HAVE to depend on people all the time. However, I think building strong social ties should be an advantage. Middle ground.
In darkfall you can't farm, its very hard to get a house, you can't decorate your house, if you own a ship you will lose it permanently, there is no trial system, there is no justice system, there is no pirate faction. there is no backstory integrated into the game worth mentioning, you can't climb trees, you can't use a glider, you can't go to jail. See, its also about variety of gameplay accessible to everyone, not just the elite.
ArcheAge caters the older more mature player due to it having many of the Gen1 MMORPG virtual world features, such as open world housing, farming and community building.
IMO players that fundamentally dislike AA are players that have only been exposed to instanced heavy solo-centric PvE games which many newer players associate with the very definition of what a MMORPG is and should be.
I respectfully disagree.
The major complaint that I am hearing about AA is the boring theme park grind from 1-50. That being the case, how can those fundamentally disliking the game be those who have been exposed to instanced heavy solo-cetric PvE games, when with the exception of being instanced, that is exactly what AA is from level 1 thru 50? It would appear to me that those fundamentally disliking the game are the impatient, instant gratification, PvP, FPS/MOBA, type players who can not fathom to do a lick of questing or engage in a bit of PvE in their game. Although I am certain solo-centric PvE types would have a problem with the group PvP features of the game beyond level 50, those are not the complaints being heard throughout the many forums. The PvE types have long ago conceded AA to the vociferous OWPvP crowd.
As it pertains to your "the many newer players associating instanced heavy solo-centric PvE games with an MMORPG," IMHO I really don't see this as the prevailing association at all. Although it is true that most MMORPG's are expected to be of the PvE variety, solo is not necessarily a requirement. In fact, many do prefer group content. The prevailing definition of an MMORPG is, and will always be, journey, progression, RP, and character development.
Its only a theme park till 30 and that's if you follow the quest. I would say its a good idea to do most of the quest up to 30 as it gives you some things you need. After 30 there is no need to quest unless you want to. So the theme park grind to 50 is on you. All I've done are the quest. I have a lvl 27 healer and a lvl 15 tank and the quest don't bug me one bit, you can blow through the quest so fast. Its funny how people complain about the quest. It makes no since they are really no different then any other quest in any mmo. The game is like 5 years old. Its not a new mmo claiming its revolutionising anything like all the other mmos that have come out and don't.
I also have no issues with the item shop and its nothing special. If you enjoy the then pay the sub because that's the way the game was meant to be played. You can even buy the sub with in game money so I don't see the big deal at all.
Stop spreading false BS.
No one need to quest at all in AA, it is prefered that you lvl to 15 to pick up your scarecrow but you dont even need to. You cant level your way to 15, pick this one single quest and start owning lands or even completely avoid it if you dont want a farm and just want a normal house.
Yeah you need to read my post again because I didn't spread any BS.
Erm, no!
Ok any game can only be a themepark if you follow its quests line until 50, such general statement. You word this like many other funny people on this forum saying that the first 30 lvls are tutorials and blah blah blah... BS.
By lvl one you can walk thru it all and go explore the world and lvl on your own. Sure its not the most efficient way, but doable. Its just not as open as darkfall, leveling wise.
and I said its a good idea. I never said its needed did I? So yeah I havn't spread any BS and me stating there was no need to quest after 30 was pointing out that you don't have to grind quest to 50. I was stating that it might be a good idea to quest to 30 if you so choose.
Ok, i wont waste my time playing with words and semantics here but the way you worded it all and mentioned lvl 30 ticked me off.
When you say by this amount of lvl there is no need for you to continue questing. If you reverse the sentence, it means that prior to this lvl, you NEED to be questing.
By that sentence, it meant that prior to lvl 30 you needed to be questing. After, it was their choice to avoid it or not.
ArcheAge caters the older more mature player due to it having many of the Gen1 MMORPG virtual world features, such as open world housing, farming and community building.
IMO players that fundamentally dislike AA are players that have only been exposed to instanced heavy solo-centric PvE games which many newer players associate with the very definition of what a MMORPG is and should be.
I respectfully disagree.
The major complaint that I am hearing about AA is the boring theme park grind from 1-50. That being the case, how can those fundamentally disliking the game be those who have been exposed to instanced heavy solo-cetric PvE games, when with the exception of being instanced, that is exactly what AA is from level 1 thru 50? It would appear to me that those fundamentally disliking the game are the impatient, instant gratification, PvP, FPS/MOBA, type players who can not fathom to do a lick of questing or engage in a bit of PvE in their game. Although I am certain solo-centric PvE types would have a problem with the group PvP features of the game beyond level 50, those are not the complaints being heard throughout the many forums. The PvE types have long ago conceded AA to the vociferous OWPvP crowd.
As it pertains to your "the many newer players associating instanced heavy solo-centric PvE games with an MMORPG," IMHO I really don't see this as the prevailing association at all. Although it is true that most MMORPG's are expected to be of the PvE variety, solo is not necessarily a requirement. In fact, many do prefer group content. The prevailing definition of an MMORPG is, and will always be, journey, progression, RP, and character development.
You are hearing wrong information - in AA quest grind is unnecessary. I leveled my last character via farming, gathering and fishing to 50. Your argument is based on flawed information - hence it is a flawed argument.
You need to direct your post to the complaining masses. I am not the one complaining about the PvE grind in AA. If you are telling me that the complaints that you are seeing of AA have nothing to do with the PvP crowd complaining about the 1-30 PvE leveling grind and everything to do with the PvE crowd complaining about wanting a instanced solo-centric PvE MMORPG experience, then it is you who is basing your argument on flawed information.
I think the idea that older gamers with more experience enjoy ship combat while the younger players do not is a bit silly.
I am 47 years old and have been playing video games since I was 13 and I am not a fan of AA.
For what AA is trying to bring to the table I very honesty prefer Wurm, Xyson and Darkfall. I think for those who are looking for things like in depth crafting, housing, farming and ship combat they really should try those games before deciding on AA.
When people say they really love AA the first thought that comes to my mind is 'the player doesnt have a lot of experience with a variety of games and is not aware of what is out there'
I'm 45 and I think those three games you listed, Wurm, Xyson and Darkfall are crap with very poor production quality.
I guess those two more years you have make you wiser than me... or not.
What doesnt make you wiser tho, is the fact that you forgot that this is YOUR opinion based on YOUR taste. I did not try wurm or xyson but from what ive seen, they are both from smaller indie compagny like darkfall. So of course it has poor production, you just cant compare darkfall to AA in terms of quality alone because Archeage had a MUCH bigger budget.
Still Darkfall is much more open world then AA and while AA feels much more polished and all that, much better feature and all, Darkfall still acomplished a lot of good things for when it first released. Especially for a first person mmorpg and open world at that.
Here is the thing though..I must have some kind of personality defect or something
1. darkfall I played and instantly feel in love the first night and played for about 3 years
2. xyson I played for 4 months but server problems killed that game for me.
3. wurm I feel in love the first night and have been playing for a year now
4. AA I played for a weekend and uninstalled it.
what is wrong with me?
Then its just not for you or you can't look past the questing. So why sit here in the forums talking about it. Go talk to people about those games you do like.
Bingo. I fail to see how a "mature" 47 year old would need to harp on how he doesn't like a a particular game for so long. It is evident that he seems to want to sway people into seeing things the way HE sees them, however, it just isn't going to happen.
Sean to answer your earlier question, yes, you seem to like games with low production value and innovative ideas. Most people don't though. I'm an avid sandbox fan but I don't want a life simulator either. I want a happy medium and archeage seems to provide that. I don't want to get my teeth kicked in every moment of the game or HAVE to depend on people all the time. However, I think building strong social ties should be an advantage. Middle ground.
In darkfall you can't farm, its very hard to get a house, you can't decorate your house, if you own a ship you will lose it permanently, there is no trial system, there is no justice system, there is no pirate faction. there is no backstory integrated into the game worth mentioning, you can't climb trees, you can't use a glider, you can't go to jail. See, its also about variety of gameplay accessible to everyone, not just the elite.
let me help break it down for you. So that you can understand my curiousity. Perhaps a mock conversation. Let me try that.
'I like Darkfall and I didnt like AA'
'Darkfall lacks polish'
'so that means I like things unploished? what the actual fuck does that even mean?'
what is polish? how does one prefer something to be unpolished? how does one 'not like polish'
this is what is called critical thinking.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
When people say they really love AA the first thought that comes to my mind is 'the player doesnt have a lot of experience with a variety of games and is not aware of what is out there'
I strongly disagree, I been playing mmorpgs since I was 14 and I am now 30 years old, I havent played as many games as you but I have also played Darkfall Unholy Wars and Loved that game for what it is..
I love AA just b/c someone doesnt have a lot of experience in mmorpgs doesnt mean they cant like/love an mmo for what it is..
or do they need to have played a ton of mmorpgs to know whats out there to like aa or not to like aa..
your remark makes no sense to me at all.. just a bunch of rubbish put into a sentence..
ArcheAge caters the older more mature player due to it having many of the Gen1 MMORPG virtual world features, such as open world housing, farming and community building.
IMO players that fundamentally dislike AA are players that have only been exposed to instanced heavy solo-centric PvE games which many newer players associate with the very definition of what a MMORPG is and should be.
I respectfully disagree.
The major complaint that I am hearing about AA is the boring theme park grind from 1-50. That being the case, how can those fundamentally disliking the game be those who have been exposed to instanced heavy solo-cetric PvE games, when with the exception of being instanced, that is exactly what AA is from level 1 thru 50? It would appear to me that those fundamentally disliking the game are the impatient, instant gratification, PvP, FPS/MOBA, type players who can not fathom to do a lick of questing or engage in a bit of PvE in their game. Although I am certain solo-centric PvE types would have a problem with the group PvP features of the game beyond level 50, those are not the complaints being heard throughout the many forums. The PvE types have long ago conceded AA to the vociferous OWPvP crowd.
As it pertains to your "the many newer players associating instanced heavy solo-centric PvE games with an MMORPG," IMHO I really don't see this as the prevailing association at all. Although it is true that most MMORPG's are expected to be of the PvE variety, solo is not necessarily a requirement. In fact, many do prefer group content. The prevailing definition of an MMORPG is, and will always be, journey, progression, RP, and character development.
You are hearing wrong information - in AA quest grind is unnecessary. I leveled my last character via farming, gathering and fishing to 50. Your argument is based on flawed information - hence it is a flawed argument.
You need to direct your post to the complaining masses. I am not the one complaining about the PvE grind in AA. If you are telling me that the complaints that you are seeing of AA have nothing to do with the PvP crowd complaining about the 1-30 PvE leveling grind and everything to do with the PvE crowd complaining about wanting a instanced solo-centric PvE MMORPG experience, then it is you who is basing your argument on flawed information.
Opinions - I feel good about mine. I hope you also feel good about yours. I am not here to address any group - just one dude and my opinion - the end.
In other words, *close eyes, fingers in ear* tra la la la la la la you see nothing and hear nothing .... your opinion is that the complaints you are seeing of AA have nothing to do with the PvP crowd complaining about the PvE leveling grind and everything to do with the PvE crowd complaining about wanting a instanced solo-centric PvE MMORPG experience, and no one is going to convince you otherwise.
I like what the OP had to say and way he said it...I hope and believe that AA will be full of well thought out, mature, yet fun players like him.
I'm looking forward to playing AA.
I think/hope it's going to be like my first beloved mmo... Horizons.
AA shares many of the same features missing only the chance to be a full on dragon character...maybe that can come later
---persistent world
---land ownership/non instanced housing
---meaning full crafting
---real economy
---less twitch action combat
--I LOVE the mult-classing aspect.
Horizons had that too. It's a pvp nightmare but so much fun to have so many character build varities.
I think most games today are made by people raised more or less on console gaming and many of the gamers today are console gamers originally...thus demanding and creating more arcade style games.
Personally, I prefer a less arcade stye game.
I'm currently playing Tera Rising, before that GW2...both arcade style mmo.
Though fun, lack long term potential for me.
I've also played Vanguard, WoW, AoC, Rift, GW1, DDO, and EQ2...Horizons was my longest and most favorite played game.
I wish for a Horizons 2...a redo of that game would really do well now, I think...but it's never going to happen.
but maybe AA will fill the void.
I hope and suspect that AA will be a mmo where I can really settle in and create a little virtual life for myself for years to come.
I think the idea that older gamers with more experience enjoy ship combat while the younger players do not is a bit silly.
I am 47 years old and have been playing video games since I was 13 and I am not a fan of AA.
For what AA is trying to bring to the table I very honesty prefer Wurm, Xyson and Darkfall. I think for those who are looking for things like in depth crafting, housing, farming and ship combat they really should try those games before deciding on AA.
When people say they really love AA the first thought that comes to my mind is 'the player doesnt have a lot of experience with a variety of games and is not aware of what is out there'
I have played xyson and darkfall. I picked of Xyson before it even came out. It was a great idea but was nothing special in the end. Can't stand the animations in darkfall just bad. I've played just about every mmo out there and I can say I love AA for what it is. Is it ground breaking? No but I have fun with it and that's all that matters. I would think someone that is 47 would understand opinions other taste by now so makes me think other wise or maybe you think we should only like what you like.
naturally because I select a game like darkfall instead of a game like AA and I think that darkfall looks better it begs the question in my mind, what is wrong with me or is it just a matter of opnion?
It also begs me the quesiton 'what does 'polish' mean'. if it means graphics why not just say graphics? if it means bug free then Darkfall and Wurm are very bug free. So I am not sure what 'polish' means.
oh and animation? no fucks where given here...
When you think polish, think about every little details. Does game features works very well or were they simply poorly implemented for the sake of it.
Remember, DF1 first screen you would see while starting up the game and entering char creation. Good lord it was terrible. For me anyway, nobody can say that DF2 feels more polished than AA but you may overlook polish because of Darkfalls features and all.
Say you hate playing third person and you need an mmo that you will be able to actualy aim or shot as an archer. Than who cares about polish when none of the most polished games wont offer what you need.
Simple as that.
Its all very confusing to me. So for example before I was playing Darkfall I was playing EQ2 and when I went to Darkfall my first thought was 'this game is better in all ways, better graphics, better game play, more variety of things to do, more freedom'.
Oh well my bias tells me that the only real difference between 'indies' and 'AAA' when it comes to 'polish' is that 'polish' = marketing.
I would love a scientist to do some study on why people like me really don't like games like EQ2 but adore games like Darkfall.
and 'we just like no-polish' isn't a very good answer.
also, at least in my mind, so called 'indies' have more features then so called AAAs pretty much 100% of the time
ADDED:
1. I never understood why something someone does once (character creation) is so important to people. That is what? 15 mins out of 1 year?
2. totally agree with your first person aiming comment. For me it is more important to have features then it is to have very few features and whatever the fuck 'polish' is.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I like what the OP had to say and way he said it...I hope and believe that AA will be full of well thought out, mature, yet fun players like him.
I'm looking forward to playing AA.
I think/hope it's going to be like my first beloved mmo... Horizons.
AA shares many of the same features missing only the chance to be a full on dragon character...maybe that can come later
---persistent world
---land ownership/non instanced housing
---meaning full crafting
---real economy
---less twitch action combat
--I LOVE the mult-classing aspect.
Horizons had that too. It's a pvp nightmare but so much fun to have so many character build varities.
I think most games today are made by people raised more or less on console gaming and many of the gamers today are console gamers originally...thus demanding and creating more arcade style games.
Personally, I prefer a less arcade stye game.
I'm currently playing Tera Rising, before that GW2...both arcade style mmo.
Though fun, lack long term potential for me.
I've also played Vanguard, WoW, AoC, Rift, GW1, DDO, and EQ2...Horizons was my longest and most favorite played game.
I wish for a Horizons 2...a redo of that game would really do well now, I think...but it's never going to happen.
but maybe AA will fill the void.
I hope and suspect that AA will be a mmo where I can really settle in and create a little virtual life for myself for years to come.
Gosh, I loved Horizons too! All I did was craft in that game and designed my plot of my dreams when I finished, I invited the whole guild over and we had a huge party. So fun and what a sense of accomplishment. I love my virtual houses in games. Eventually, a guildmate and I started designing a mega plot. We bought two large plots next to one another and were designing a compound. I loved that game. The thing that caused us to quit was when they were doing server merges. For me, Horizons was crafting paradise. Like you say though....bring us dragons!!! lol.
Getting to the spirit of the original post, yeah AA does remind me of better days too...starting with Asheron's Call. I've played so many MMOs over the years and frankly I'm getting tired of skipping around. Looking for a place to call home.
Originally posted by FlawSGI Nice post OP. AA has also reminded of better days when cash shop shenanigans and price gouging wasn't at the forefront of the experience. Enjoy.
Exactly. And when you people realize that you have supported a pay 2 win MMO, don't come back in 5 years whining that all MMOs are p2w.
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard Not a bad post (even though the first half is a bit... "self serving"...) but it belongs on the Archeage forums I think. Here it will only attract insults, as in the post just above mine.
[mod edit]
All i am saying is, be real, ArcheAge is a game that i waited for quite sometimes, since the very first trailer of the stunning world itself few years ago when it wasnt even alpha/beta in its original country. I want it to succeed and i love many of its feature, sadly as much as i hate others. F2P model being one of the things that i hate along with trion.
Every problem that trion has in na/eu must first be communicated to xlgames, then understood, then troubleshooted, then the patch must be made and sent to us, tweaked for other language and then applied. There was a lot of bugs in the alpha and beta that are still unresolved... (bugs that shouldnt be in a 1 year old game such as an entire castle siege region bugged)
Just watch the archeage cbe3 livestream recap where one says that they noticed a bug with a mount that just had overpowered stats and they had to get in touch with xlgames to get this simple thing fixed... I facepalmed so damn hard, seriously. With that kind of system, you damn hope that xlgames does no mistake at all while sending us patch because one mistake will leave us in big trouble for weeks or at the very least, days.
All the patch updates that XL GAMES sends back to Trion, Trion has to test internally to verify they were done correctly before patching Alpha. It's a very convoluted and slow process - but again Trion has no ability to touch even a single line of game code. If a single word is mispelled Trion has to go through the whole process with XL to have it patched. Facepalm it all you want - AA is XL's game, they are the only ones allowed to make any changes.
Indeed, way too long and this is the fault of trion to accept the deal under such conditions, not anyone else.
The problem I had with the game is not the fact that there was questing. My problem was with the fact that the questing in AA is extremely generic and it's just plain bad. Questing in vanilla WoW in 2004 was way better. SWTOR questing was better. I am not too picky but I can't honestly think of a major MMO that I have played that had more generic questing than AA. I would say that even Rift, which is notirous for its boring questing, is better imo. That's saying a lot.
Now I understand that questing is not the main highlight of the game and I will try it when it launches because I like what I am reading about the crafting. But the gave me a very Asian vibe with extremely bland quests. That's my first impression of the first 15 levels. The reason I didn't carry on is because it's beta. I don't like playing betas. At launch I will play it for longer to see if it gets better.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
It's quite interesting to see that all those complaining about AA mention the questing, which is 100% optional.
I guess that even those supposed "veteran mature gamers" still go for the most obvious route without looking deeper into what they really can in the game. I didn't touch a quest since I was level 20ish. I levelled just fine. And I could have done this much, much earlier, just took me some time to figure everything out since AA has so many things to do which are all beneficial to your character.
Just a hint... originally, AA didn't have those quests.
What's funny is that XL actually made them better then before. Now it's easier to keep track of them especially the main story. But people still fail to understand where to go and what to do. I won't question the average gamer ability to click on a big yellow ! that can be seen from 100km away; but i do wonder what people have been playing these years.
At the opposite you have those that can't see beyond the big yellow !. They are attracted to it like bees to flowers.
I think the idea that older gamers with more experience enjoy ship combat while the younger players do not is a bit silly.
I am 47 years old and have been playing video games since I was 13 and I am not a fan of AA.
For what AA is trying to bring to the table I very honesty prefer Wurm, Xyson and Darkfall. I think for those who are looking for things like in depth crafting, housing, farming and ship combat they really should try those games before deciding on AA.
When people say they really love AA the first thought that comes to my mind is 'the player doesnt have a lot of experience with a variety of games and is not aware of what is out there'
I have played xyson and darkfall. I picked of Xyson before it even came out. It was a great idea but was nothing special in the end. Can't stand the animations in darkfall just bad. I've played just about every mmo out there and I can say I love AA for what it is. Is it ground breaking? No but I have fun with it and that's all that matters. I would think someone that is 47 would understand opinions other taste by now so makes me think other wise or maybe you think we should only like what you like.
naturally because I select a game like darkfall instead of a game like AA and I think that darkfall looks better it begs the question in my mind, what is wrong with me or is it just a matter of opnion?
It also begs me the quesiton 'what does 'polish' mean'. if it means graphics why not just say graphics? if it means bug free then Darkfall and Wurm are very bug free. So I am not sure what 'polish' means.
oh and animation? no fucks where given here...
When you think polish, think about every little details. Does game features works very well or were they simply poorly implemented for the sake of it.
Remember, DF1 first screen you would see while starting up the game and entering char creation. Good lord it was terrible. For me anyway, nobody can say that DF2 feels more polished than AA but you may overlook polish because of Darkfalls features and all.
Say you hate playing third person and you need an mmo that you will be able to actualy aim or shot as an archer. Than who cares about polish when none of the most polished games wont offer what you need.
Simple as that.
Its all very confusing to me. So for example before I was playing Darkfall I was playing EQ2 and when I went to Darkfall my first thought was 'this game is better in all ways, better graphics, better game play, more variety of things to do, more freedom'.
Oh well my bias tells me that the only real difference between 'indies' and 'AAA' when it comes to 'polish' is that 'polish' = marketing.
I would love a scientist to do some study on why people like me really don't like games like EQ2 but adore games like Darkfall.
and 'we just like no-polish' isn't a very good answer.
also, at least in my mind, so called 'indies' have more features then so called AAAs pretty much 100% of the time
ADDED:
1. I never understood why something someone does once (character creation) is so important to people. That is what? 15 mins out of 1 year?
2. totally agree with your first person aiming comment. For me it is more important to have features then it is to have very few features and whatever the fuck 'polish' is.
I am not saying that you do not like polished games or features, i am saying that you clearly overlook polish for a more complete game that offers more feature than it focuses on making these features as complete and polish as it can be.
Compare DFUW to AA for instance.
AA being much more polished, pushed deeper in most of its features.
Look how interactive and amazing sealing on the open sea is compare to DF and that is just AA at release. Compare AA to DF housing, aa with its farming, decorating and animals... Polish means well though out features with details, well implemented in the game.
You see, char creation is a meaningless thing in a game for you, because you care for other things... A well rounded and polished game will be at least average to great in most aspect that make this game.
Compare char creation of DF1 to DFUW, wouldnt you say that they polished out DFUW char creation compared to DF1? Even if its far from being acceptable.
I am not saying that you do not like polished games or features, i am saying that you clearly overlook polish for a more complete game that offers more feature than it focuses on making these features as complete and polish as it can be.
Compare DFUW to AA for instance.
AA being much more polished, pushed deeper in most of its features.
Look how interactive and amazing sealing on the open sea is compare to DF and that is just AA at release. Compare AA to DF housing, aa with its farming, decorating and animals... Polish means well though out features with details, well implemented in the game.
You see, char creation is a meaningless thing in a game for you, because you care for other things... A well rounded and polished game will be at least average to great in most aspect that make this game.
Compare char creation of DF1 to DFUW, wouldnt you say that they polished out DFUW char creation compared to DF1? Even if its far from being acceptable.
I concede to most of what you say.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Yes, thank you ArcheAge for reminding me of better days, and then not delivering on that experience. I was really hoping for a spiritual successor to Lineage. This will probably be the most disappointing mmo launch for me in a decade.
The class structure and combat are fun enough. The pve and questing is about as generic and boring as it gets and the loot drops are hideous (seriously someone should be embarrassed at that system). I think the crafting would be neat, but I haven't got to try it because I don't have enough LP. That's the deal breaker. I don't remember having to spend energy points in Lineage and old school mmos to open loot, craft, harvest, fart, or do anything other than move and kill mobs.
I really hope someday we'll get a real Lineage successor. I doubt it.
There are several games I can recall that do something similar to ArcheAge.
Dungeons and Dragons Online had all sorts of things you had to pay money to unlock.
Guildwars 2 same thing with the online store and keys.
Neverwinter....same thing.
Basically ArcheAge is a subscription based game and once it goes live if you just subscribe to monthly you will gain plenty of labor points to do what you need. If you try to play the game for free you will be more limited which is normal. You can also as a free player make store purchases with cash to get more done in the game. Just two sides of the payment system. Subscribers get the better end of the deal though, which I think is good since it rewards continued dedication to the game.
I would love a scientist to do some study on why people like me really don't like games like EQ2 but adore games like Darkfall.
and 'we just like no-polish' isn't a very good answer.
also, at least in my mind, so called 'indies' have more features then so called AAAs pretty much 100% of the time
ADDED:
1. I never understood why something someone does once (character creation) is so important to people. That is what? 15 mins out of 1 year?
You don't need a scientist to answer that. It's how people are "drawn". (and yes that's a reference).
Some people like to show up and enjoy what the developers have created. They allow themselves to buy into the premise and to be swept away.
Some people just want basic building blocks and to make their own good times.
Exactly the same reasons I love movies and I have friends who can't stand them. But they tend to enjoy more active pursuits such as kayaking or mountain climbing or hiking or "whatever".
As far as the reason in yellow, you don't understand because you lack those bits and bobs that make that portion of the experience weighty and monumental to those who have those bits and bobs.
This is not a "judgment' or qualitative statement.
Just like me enjoying theater and movies doesn't make me a "better anything" from my friends who would rather take a road trip.
Just like some people like to dance and others can't stand it.
It's how we are "put together" and how we have acted and reacted to various stimuli over the years.
And the real problem is not that we are different but that some want to use their differences to vault themselves over those who don't have the same differences.
And I'm sure there are already people who study esthetics and why people like bach and others like schubert and others couldn't care a whit about either of those guys.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Yes, thank you ArcheAge for reminding me of better days, and then not delivering on that experience. I was really hoping for a spiritual successor to Lineage. This will probably be the most disappointing mmo launch for me in a decade.
The class structure and combat are fun enough. The pve and questing is about as generic and boring as it gets and the loot drops are hideous (seriously someone should be embarrassed at that system). I think the crafting would be neat, but I haven't got to try it because I don't have enough LP. That's the deal breaker. I don't remember having to spend energy points in Lineage and old school mmos to open loot, craft, harvest, fart, or do anything other than move and kill mobs.
I really hope someday we'll get a real Lineage successor. I doubt it.
If only you had played it in alpha pre 1.2 patch that has been in every open beta. So many things are different now, you had way more people in early zones just doing trade packs, muchhhhhhhhhh better loot system and a more fair amount of archeum crystals (whatever their name, crafting mats)...
Loot is unacceptable as it stand, crafting is no longer limited by your labor points but by how hard it is to get those mob drop mats. Its a pity really.... Lets not talk about the latency lag issue that brought 1.2 with its 3 in one melee hit skill change.
ArcheAge caters the older more mature player due to it having many of the Gen1 MMORPG virtual world features, such as open world housing, farming and community building.
IMO players that fundamentally dislike AA are players that have only been exposed to instanced heavy solo-centric PvE games which many newer players associate with the very definition of what a MMORPG is and should be.
With all due respect:
I've been around the MMO scene for a while and I dislike ArcheAge. It would be swell if you could NOT generalize people like that. There is still the matter of which features the game has versus how they are implemented. Amongst other things, that is.
It's quite interesting to see that all those complaining about AA mention the questing, which is 100% optional.
I guess that even those supposed "veteran mature gamers" still go for the most obvious route without looking deeper into what they really can do in the game. I guess all that bragging about having played UO/AC1/EQ whatever is just memories, and they also have forgotten how to take initiative and find out things on your own instead of following the lead.
I didn't touch a quest since I was level 20ish. I levelled just fine. And I could have done this much, much earlier, just took me some time to figure everything out since AA has so many things to do which are all beneficial to your character.
Just a hint... originally, AA didn't have those quests.
You did quests till lvl 20 though right?
Besides anyone who thinks they are somehow veteran gamers cause they played EQ should really think again. EQ is like WoW. A brain dead themepark with 0 options. Anyone who thinks otherwise has their nostalgia goggles on.
You know a lot of the so called cool options AA has are behind paywalls so most beta players don't have acess to them.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Nice post, OP and I agree with your take on AA because it mirrors my own experience so far. What I really want to know is... Did you make it across the sea in a rowboat??
I totally agree OP, period, this game brings back alot of memories for me and I'm sorry the only ones who don't seem to "get" it are the ones who jump in and the only thing they have to talk about is the boring quest grind. Which the game is not about at all.
And if you disagree please define what the term exploration means in an mmo world. ArcheAge has it in spades.
Ready.....
Go...
Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!
It's quite interesting to see that all those complaining about AA mention the questing, which is 100% optional.
I guess that even those supposed "veteran mature gamers" still go for the most obvious route without looking deeper into what they really can do in the game. I guess all that bragging about having played UO/AC1/EQ whatever is just memories, and they also have forgotten how to take initiative and find out things on your own instead of following the lead.
I didn't touch a quest since I was level 20ish. I levelled just fine. And I could have done this much, much earlier, just took me some time to figure everything out since AA has so many things to do which are all beneficial to your character.
Just a hint... originally, AA didn't have those quests.
What is there in place of questing to level on, as an alternative route? All I've gathered thus far is Crafting and Fishing. Which don't sound any more interesting than bland quests. What does that leave, mob grinding? That wasn't interesting a decade ago, I"m not sure how it would be now.
Yet you find it "interesting" people are focusing on what was supposed to be the answer to those mechanics long ago? I'd think such complaints would be expected regardless of what you do at elder ranks.
I get that people long for a more sandbox oriented game, harkening back to SWG and the like. However I don't see why that would entice people to go so far to defend bland or boring implementations.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Comments
Bingo. I fail to see how a "mature" 47 year old would need to harp on how he doesn't like a a particular game for so long. It is evident that he seems to want to sway people into seeing things the way HE sees them, however, it just isn't going to happen.
Sean to answer your earlier question, yes, you seem to like games with low production value and innovative ideas. Most people don't though. I'm an avid sandbox fan but I don't want a life simulator either. I want a happy medium and archeage seems to provide that. I don't want to get my teeth kicked in every moment of the game or HAVE to depend on people all the time. However, I think building strong social ties should be an advantage. Middle ground.
In darkfall you can't farm, its very hard to get a house, you can't decorate your house, if you own a ship you will lose it permanently, there is no trial system, there is no justice system, there is no pirate faction. there is no backstory integrated into the game worth mentioning, you can't climb trees, you can't use a glider, you can't go to jail. See, its also about variety of gameplay accessible to everyone, not just the elite.
Ok, i wont waste my time playing with words and semantics here but the way you worded it all and mentioned lvl 30 ticked me off.
When you say by this amount of lvl there is no need for you to continue questing. If you reverse the sentence, it means that prior to this lvl, you NEED to be questing.
By that sentence, it meant that prior to lvl 30 you needed to be questing. After, it was their choice to avoid it or not.
You need to direct your post to the complaining masses. I am not the one complaining about the PvE grind in AA. If you are telling me that the complaints that you are seeing of AA have nothing to do with the PvP crowd complaining about the 1-30 PvE leveling grind and everything to do with the PvE crowd complaining about wanting a instanced solo-centric PvE MMORPG experience, then it is you who is basing your argument on flawed information.
let me help break it down for you. So that you can understand my curiousity. Perhaps a mock conversation. Let me try that.
'I like Darkfall and I didnt like AA'
'Darkfall lacks polish'
'so that means I like things unploished? what the actual fuck does that even mean?'
what is polish? how does one prefer something to be unpolished? how does one 'not like polish'
this is what is called critical thinking.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
I strongly disagree, I been playing mmorpgs since I was 14 and I am now 30 years old, I havent played as many games as you but I have also played Darkfall Unholy Wars and Loved that game for what it is..
I love AA just b/c someone doesnt have a lot of experience in mmorpgs doesnt mean they cant like/love an mmo for what it is..
or do they need to have played a ton of mmorpgs to know whats out there to like aa or not to like aa..
your remark makes no sense to me at all.. just a bunch of rubbish put into a sentence..
In other words, *close eyes, fingers in ear* tra la la la la la la you see nothing and hear nothing .... your opinion is that the complaints you are seeing of AA have nothing to do with the PvP crowd complaining about the PvE leveling grind and everything to do with the PvE crowd complaining about wanting a instanced solo-centric PvE MMORPG experience, and no one is going to convince you otherwise.
Gotcha.
I like what the OP had to say and way he said it...I hope and believe that AA will be full of well thought out, mature, yet fun players like him.
I'm looking forward to playing AA.
I think/hope it's going to be like my first beloved mmo... Horizons.
AA shares many of the same features missing only the chance to be a full on dragon character...maybe that can come later
---persistent world
---land ownership/non instanced housing
---meaning full crafting
---real economy
---less twitch action combat
--I LOVE the mult-classing aspect.
Horizons had that too. It's a pvp nightmare but so much fun to have so many character build varities.
I think most games today are made by people raised more or less on console gaming and many of the gamers today are console gamers originally...thus demanding and creating more arcade style games.
Personally, I prefer a less arcade stye game.
I'm currently playing Tera Rising, before that GW2...both arcade style mmo.
Though fun, lack long term potential for me.
I've also played Vanguard, WoW, AoC, Rift, GW1, DDO, and EQ2...Horizons was my longest and most favorite played game.
I wish for a Horizons 2...a redo of that game would really do well now, I think...but it's never going to happen.
but maybe AA will fill the void.
I hope and suspect that AA will be a mmo where I can really settle in and create a little virtual life for myself for years to come.
Its all very confusing to me. So for example before I was playing Darkfall I was playing EQ2 and when I went to Darkfall my first thought was 'this game is better in all ways, better graphics, better game play, more variety of things to do, more freedom'.
Oh well my bias tells me that the only real difference between 'indies' and 'AAA' when it comes to 'polish' is that 'polish' = marketing.
I would love a scientist to do some study on why people like me really don't like games like EQ2 but adore games like Darkfall.
and 'we just like no-polish' isn't a very good answer.
also, at least in my mind, so called 'indies' have more features then so called AAAs pretty much 100% of the time
ADDED:
1. I never understood why something someone does once (character creation) is so important to people. That is what? 15 mins out of 1 year?
2. totally agree with your first person aiming comment. For me it is more important to have features then it is to have very few features and whatever the fuck 'polish' is.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.
Gosh, I loved Horizons too! All I did was craft in that game and designed my plot of my dreams when I finished, I invited the whole guild over and we had a huge party. So fun and what a sense of accomplishment. I love my virtual houses in games. Eventually, a guildmate and I started designing a mega plot. We bought two large plots next to one another and were designing a compound. I loved that game. The thing that caused us to quit was when they were doing server merges. For me, Horizons was crafting paradise. Like you say though....bring us dragons!!! lol.
Getting to the spirit of the original post, yeah AA does remind me of better days too...starting with Asheron's Call. I've played so many MMOs over the years and frankly I'm getting tired of skipping around. Looking for a place to call home.
Exactly. And when you people realize that you have supported a pay 2 win MMO, don't come back in 5 years whining that all MMOs are p2w.
Indeed, way too long and this is the fault of trion to accept the deal under such conditions, not anyone else.
The problem I had with the game is not the fact that there was questing. My problem was with the fact that the questing in AA is extremely generic and it's just plain bad. Questing in vanilla WoW in 2004 was way better. SWTOR questing was better. I am not too picky but I can't honestly think of a major MMO that I have played that had more generic questing than AA. I would say that even Rift, which is notirous for its boring questing, is better imo. That's saying a lot.
Now I understand that questing is not the main highlight of the game and I will try it when it launches because I like what I am reading about the crafting. But the gave me a very Asian vibe with extremely bland quests. That's my first impression of the first 15 levels. The reason I didn't carry on is because it's beta. I don't like playing betas. At launch I will play it for longer to see if it gets better.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
What's funny is that XL actually made them better then before. Now it's easier to keep track of them especially the main story. But people still fail to understand where to go and what to do. I won't question the average gamer ability to click on a big yellow ! that can be seen from 100km away; but i do wonder what people have been playing these years.
At the opposite you have those that can't see beyond the big yellow !. They are attracted to it like bees to flowers.
I am not saying that you do not like polished games or features, i am saying that you clearly overlook polish for a more complete game that offers more feature than it focuses on making these features as complete and polish as it can be.
Compare DFUW to AA for instance.
AA being much more polished, pushed deeper in most of its features.
Look how interactive and amazing sealing on the open sea is compare to DF and that is just AA at release. Compare AA to DF housing, aa with its farming, decorating and animals... Polish means well though out features with details, well implemented in the game.
You see, char creation is a meaningless thing in a game for you, because you care for other things... A well rounded and polished game will be at least average to great in most aspect that make this game.
Compare char creation of DF1 to DFUW, wouldnt you say that they polished out DFUW char creation compared to DF1? Even if its far from being acceptable.
I concede to most of what you say.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Wait, are there people here saying that AA has an old school (pre WoW) feel to it?
I might have to play it....
There are several games I can recall that do something similar to ArcheAge.
Dungeons and Dragons Online had all sorts of things you had to pay money to unlock.
Guildwars 2 same thing with the online store and keys.
Neverwinter....same thing.
Basically ArcheAge is a subscription based game and once it goes live if you just subscribe to monthly you will gain plenty of labor points to do what you need. If you try to play the game for free you will be more limited which is normal. You can also as a free player make store purchases with cash to get more done in the game. Just two sides of the payment system. Subscribers get the better end of the deal though, which I think is good since it rewards continued dedication to the game.
You don't need a scientist to answer that. It's how people are "drawn". (and yes that's a reference).
Some people like to show up and enjoy what the developers have created. They allow themselves to buy into the premise and to be swept away.
Some people just want basic building blocks and to make their own good times.
Exactly the same reasons I love movies and I have friends who can't stand them. But they tend to enjoy more active pursuits such as kayaking or mountain climbing or hiking or "whatever".
As far as the reason in yellow, you don't understand because you lack those bits and bobs that make that portion of the experience weighty and monumental to those who have those bits and bobs.
This is not a "judgment' or qualitative statement.
Just like me enjoying theater and movies doesn't make me a "better anything" from my friends who would rather take a road trip.
Just like some people like to dance and others can't stand it.
It's how we are "put together" and how we have acted and reacted to various stimuli over the years.
And the real problem is not that we are different but that some want to use their differences to vault themselves over those who don't have the same differences.
And I'm sure there are already people who study esthetics and why people like bach and others like schubert and others couldn't care a whit about either of those guys.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
If only you had played it in alpha pre 1.2 patch that has been in every open beta. So many things are different now, you had way more people in early zones just doing trade packs, muchhhhhhhhhh better loot system and a more fair amount of archeum crystals (whatever their name, crafting mats)...
Loot is unacceptable as it stand, crafting is no longer limited by your labor points but by how hard it is to get those mob drop mats. Its a pity really.... Lets not talk about the latency lag issue that brought 1.2 with its 3 in one melee hit skill change.
With all due respect:
I've been around the MMO scene for a while and I dislike ArcheAge. It would be swell if you could NOT generalize people like that. There is still the matter of which features the game has versus how they are implemented. Amongst other things, that is.
You did quests till lvl 20 though right?
Besides anyone who thinks they are somehow veteran gamers cause they played EQ should really think again. EQ is like WoW. A brain dead themepark with 0 options. Anyone who thinks otherwise has their nostalgia goggles on.
You know a lot of the so called cool options AA has are behind paywalls so most beta players don't have acess to them.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Nice post, OP and I agree with your take on AA because it mirrors my own experience so far. What I really want to know is... Did you make it across the sea in a rowboat??
I totally agree OP, period, this game brings back alot of memories for me and I'm sorry the only ones who don't seem to "get" it are the ones who jump in and the only thing they have to talk about is the boring quest grind. Which the game is not about at all.
And if you disagree please define what the term exploration means in an mmo world. ArcheAge has it in spades.
Ready.....
Go...
Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!
What is there in place of questing to level on, as an alternative route? All I've gathered thus far is Crafting and Fishing. Which don't sound any more interesting than bland quests. What does that leave, mob grinding? That wasn't interesting a decade ago, I"m not sure how it would be now.
Yet you find it "interesting" people are focusing on what was supposed to be the answer to those mechanics long ago? I'd think such complaints would be expected regardless of what you do at elder ranks.
I get that people long for a more sandbox oriented game, harkening back to SWG and the like. However I don't see why that would entice people to go so far to defend bland or boring implementations.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson