Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Fuzzy Avatars Solved! Please re-upload your avatar if it was fuzzy!

Please Stop With the Genre's Doom and Gloom!

135

Comments

  • dave6660dave6660 New York, NYPosts: 2,543Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Quirhid

    I proposed a new section dedicated for such threads a while back.

    The doom & gloom really does bring the quality of these forums down. Mods should definitely do something about it.

    While we're at it can we have a separate section for "Sub Numbers & Quarterly Earnings".

    “There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.”
    -- Herman Melville

  • ArakaziArakazi OxfordPosts: 889Member
    I don't think anyone sensible is arguing that the genre is dying. MMOs have turned out to be just another genre of video games - if a lot more time consuming. I think the disappointment some people have with the genre, particularly those of the 30 - 40 years of age bracket, is that the genre has failed to live up to its early promise. Back in the days of EQ MMOs seemed like the future of not just video games, but entertainment as a whole. Virtual worlds were anything can happen and a place you can be anyone or anything. But the reality is none of these things are possible. We are stuck in generic worlds, with our generic toons doing our generic thing.
  • dave6660dave6660 New York, NYPosts: 2,543Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    I think people looking for a more positive forum experience should go elsewhere.

    This house belongs to us!!!

    Beat me to it.

    I was thinking of the Jack Nicholson's line in Batman, "Decent people shouldn't live here.  They'd be happier some place else."

    “There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.”
    -- Herman Melville

  • ScotScot UKPosts: 5,762Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Quirhid

    I proposed a new section dedicated for such threads a while back.

    The doom & gloom really does bring the quality of these forums down. Mods should definitely do something about it.

     

    This forum has done a fine job of pretending issues do not exist in the past we already have a section for:

    Group versus Solo

    Sandbox versus Themepark

    MMO population tools

     

    As we all should know by now there are no issues with grouping in MMOs, there is no issue with too many Themeparks and MMO population tools always work. Lets add a 'There is No Issues at All with Current MMO's' sticky thread.

    Then we can all stick our head in the sand and forget about it, take your tablet and praise the genre!

  • sanshi44sanshi44 BrisbanePosts: 1,088Member Uncommon
    The amount of quality work being out into MMORPGs were definetly on the decline, devs seem to have though doing the minimal work would bring in the big $$$ ever since WoW came out it seems to be changing now a bit now and developers are putting work back into the games once again and pull out of the pit that they have fallen into remaking the same game over and over, I hope the developers wil be able to pull out of that pit and once again start putting work into these games once more and trying to make them unique once again, seems like SoE surprisingly enough might be leading this i kinda hope they pull though in changing the industry once again with EQN but only time will tell weather or not it will add a spark into the genre again :) .
  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Elmira, ONPosts: 2,499Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Scot
    Originally posted by Quirhid

    I proposed a new section dedicated for such threads a while back.

    The doom & gloom really does bring the quality of these forums down. Mods should definitely do something about it.

     

    This forum has done a fine job of pretending issues do not exist in the past we already have a section for:

    Group versus Solo

    Sandbox versus Themepark

    MMO population tools

     

    As we all should know by now there are no issues with grouping in MMOs, there is no issue with too many Themeparks and MMO population tools always work. Lets add a 'There is No Issues at All with Current MMO's' sticky thread.

    Then we can all stick our head in the sand and forget about it, take your tablet and praise the genre!

     

    On reflection though, I am wondering if Quirhid's post was a wind up? :)

    Ummmmm, no. I think we've established that there is only Themepark. Oh, and you forgot about the Anything versus SWG topic. 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • iridescenceiridescence Elliot Lake, ONPosts: 1,486Member
    Originally posted by Boneserino

     

     

    What you speak of is simply the old rose coloured glasses syndrome again.    Everyone seems to think that there first MMO's were the best and everything since has been shit.   Sorry, but thats just wrong.

     

    Somewhere along the line, someone got the impression after playing their first MMO, that by the year 2014 we would all be awash in virtual worlds where we could be and do anything we wanted.   And that just hasn't come to pass, and people are bitching and moaning about it, when in fact MMO's have improved in both graphics and design features.   Graphically they have improved the most but that is because that was the easy part.   Making the virtual world is the tough part.

     

     

    Graphics have objectively improved but design features have just *changed* whether they've improved or not is in the eye of the beholder. I'm sure people starting these threads are sincere in thinking that MMOs in the early 2000s were actually better designed than current ones and I think I'd largely agree without necessarily writing off all the changes as bad. I understand the changes weren't made for people like me but to expand the audience but I think a lot of them led to worse, more shalllow games. In any case, these threads exist because many people do not agree with you that every aspect of MMOs have improved over they years. 

     

    I also really hope people and especially devs never give up their crazy dreams of what this genre can be because I think it has the potential to be so much more than it currently is. One of my biggest criticisms of a lot of more modern MMORPGS is they seem to be dispassionately following a formula without much ambition or desire to push the envelope.

     

     

  • BigdaddyxBigdaddyx California, WAPosts: 1,985Member Uncommon

    Topics which often talk about 'decline of MMOS' and 'good old days' reminds me of converstaion i had with a  friend who was moaning about how the new TNMT is goofy and silly and made for kids.

    I had to remind him that original TNMT was nothing but goofy and silly and was made for kids. Bunch of guys in rubber suits dressed as turtles who fight evil ninjas... does that sound adult material to anyone?

    So yeah these topics are often the case of rose colored glasses. And every now and then someone needs to shake them up and show them the reality. Its not games. Music, movies, books whatever source of entertainment you pick up...there is always one debbie downer complaining about 'good old days'. And to be frank with you i find them extremely annoying.

  • AvanahAvanah Posts: 945Member Uncommon
    I think it's the quality of the community that is declining, not the games.

    TGIF...Thank God I'm Female

    "My Fantasy is having two men at once...
    One Cooking and One Cleaning!"

  • Ender4Ender4 milwaukee, WIPosts: 2,253Member


    Originally posted by AlBQuirky
    After seeing yet another "MMOs are declining" post, I feel the need to say, "STOP IT!!"The genre is NOT on the decline. The game quality may not be to your liking, or the direction the genre has gone may not please (it certainly displeases me), but NOT in any way, shape, or form is the genre in any kind of decline.MORE players are playing MMOs than 14 years ago.
    MORE games are available than 14 years ago.
    MORE money is coming in every month than ever before.If this indicates a "decline" to you, you had best go back to school. You missed a class or two on basic business.

    Well your post is completely flawed because the market base has expanded very significantly in the past 14 years. MMORPG is a shrinking market at this point, not a growing one compared to the overall gaming market. It is primarily because very little is coming out that is high quality.

    To use a simple comparison. If a movie comes out today that grosses $500M it is considered a success but nothing special, that was the highest grossing film in 2000. The computer gaming industry has exploded over the past 14 years.

  • DamonVileDamonVile Vancouver, BCPosts: 4,818Member
    Originally posted by Ender4

     


    Originally posted by AlBQuirky
    After seeing yet another "MMOs are declining" post, I feel the need to say, "STOP IT!!"

     

    The genre is NOT on the decline. The game quality may not be to your liking, or the direction the genre has gone may not please (it certainly displeases me), but NOT in any way, shape, or form is the genre in any kind of decline.

    MORE players are playing MMOs than 14 years ago.
    MORE games are available than 14 years ago.
    MORE money is coming in every month than ever before.

    If this indicates a "decline" to you, you had best go back to school. You missed a class or two on basic business.


     

    Well your post is completely flawed because the market base has expanded very significantly in the past 14 years. MMORPG is a shrinking market at this point, not a growing one compared to the overall gaming market. It is primarily because very little is coming out that is high quality.

    To use a simple comparison. If a movie comes out today that grosses $500M it is considered a success but nothing special, that was the highest grossing film in 2000. The computer gaming industry has exploded over the past 14 years.

    So where is your data to support it ? Because the only side that has ever posted anything says the opposite. Superdata is the only market study I've ever seen and it shows growth. I've seen lots of people say it's wrong but no one ever has posted another study to show it's wrong.

    Right now it's random internet guy fact vrs a statistics company that says it works with most of the major game studios, and whom none of them have ever said they don't. If you can show this decline that doesn't involve cherry picked napkin math "data" I'd really like to see it.

  • JabasJabas Caldas da RainhaPosts: 1,207Member Common
    Originally posted by Avanah
    I think it's the quality of the community that is declining, not the games.

    In some way yes.

    And what about the shock of  diferent generations of gamers?

    20 years ago was only 1 generation playing, nowdays its around 3 diferent ones with diferent ideas of gaming.

    We see that every day in-games and forums.

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Sioux City, IAPosts: 3,828Member


    Originally posted by Viper482

    Originally posted by AlBQuirky
    After seeing yet another "MMOs are declining" post, I feel the need to say, "STOP IT!!"The genre is NOT on the decline. The game quality may not be to your liking, or the direction the genre has gone may not please (it certainly displeases me), but NOT in any way, shape, or form is the genre in any kind of decline.
    MORE players are playing MMOs than 14 years ago.
    MORE games are available than 14 years ago.
    MORE money is coming in every month than ever before.If this indicates a "decline" to you, you had best go back to school. You missed a class or two on basic business.

    Sounds to me like you are completely misunderstanding what people mean by declining....a better word would be devolving. Funny you would agree that the direction they have taken sucks, yet you so passionately defend them here. 
    If they said "devolving", I would have no trouble with that post. Instead *they* say "declining" or "dead" or some form of the word "fail".

    I defend them because I may not be enjoying them presently, but many millions of players are enjoying them. I do not begrudge them their fun. In the same vein, I dislike Horror games. I'm not going to be an advocate of seeing Horror games go away, because a lot of people enjoy them.

    I would like an MMO that I enjoy playing again. Just one would suit me fine. But I will not deny other player's enjoyment of them. I guess I'm not quite ready to give up all hope and just leave the whole genre behind me :)

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Sioux City, IAPosts: 3,828Member


    Originally posted by dave6660

    Originally posted by Quirhid
    I proposed a new section dedicated for such threads a while back.The doom & gloom really does bring the quality of these forums down. Mods should definitely do something about it.
    While we're at it can we have a separate section for "Sub Numbers & Quarterly Earnings".
    While I'd like this, too, that would certainly make "The Pub" almost null and void :)

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • BigdaddyxBigdaddyx California, WAPosts: 1,985Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

     


    Originally posted by Viper482

    Originally posted by AlBQuirky
    After seeing yet another "MMOs are declining" post, I feel the need to say, "STOP IT!!"

     

    The genre is NOT on the decline. The game quality may not be to your liking, or the direction the genre has gone may not please (it certainly displeases me), but NOT in any way, shape, or form is the genre in any kind of decline.
    MORE players are playing MMOs than 14 years ago.
    MORE games are available than 14 years ago.
    MORE money is coming in every month than ever before.

    If this indicates a "decline" to you, you had best go back to school. You missed a class or two on basic business.


    Sounds to me like you are completely misunderstanding what people mean by declining....a better word would be devolving. Funny you would agree that the direction they have taken sucks, yet you so passionately defend them here. 
    If they said "devolving", I would have no trouble with that post. Instead *they* say "declining" or "dead" or some form of the word "fail".

     

    I defend them because I may not be enjoying them presently, but many millions of players are enjoying them. I do not begrudge them their fun. In the same vein, I dislike Horror games. I'm not going to be an advocate of seeing Horror games go away, because a lot of people enjoy them.

    I would like an MMO that I enjoy playing again. Just one would suit me fine. But I will not deny other player's enjoyment of them. I guess I'm not quite ready to give up all hope and just leave the whole genre behind me :)

    Please stop using logic. its too much!!!

    If you dislike something it is not enough..you should always talks in 'we' and 'us' and make sure others stop having fun too.

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Sioux City, IAPosts: 3,828Member


    Originally posted by Ender4

    Originally posted by AlBQuirky
    After seeing yet another "MMOs are declining" post, I feel the need to say, "STOP IT!!"The genre is NOT on the decline. The game quality may not be to your liking, or the direction the genre has gone may not please (it certainly displeases me), but NOT in any way, shape, or form is the genre in any kind of decline.MORE players are playing MMOs than 14 years ago.
    MORE games are available than 14 years ago.
    MORE money is coming in every month than ever before.If this indicates a "decline" to you, you had best go back to school. You missed a class or two on basic business.

    Well your post is completely flawed because the market base has expanded very significantly in the past 14 years. MMORPG is a shrinking market at this point, not a growing one compared to the overall gaming market. It is primarily because very little is coming out that is high quality.To use a simple comparison. If a movie comes out today that grosses $500M it is considered a success but nothing special, that was the highest grossing film in 2000. The computer gaming industry has exploded over the past 14 years.
    You need to stick with the same terms. *I* said "MMOs", meaning any Massively Multiplayer Online game. *You* said "MMORPG" which is a specific segment of MMOs.

    In that case, I agree that "MMORPGs" are on the decline. Not many of the players today desire an RPG experience. They desire an FPS experience on a massive scale. "RPG" activities are considered boring by these new players.

    All I'm saying is use the same terms in your arguments. Don't switch them up :)

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • ace5572ace5572 Perrysburg, OHPosts: 113Member
    All i can read from this entire thread is: "Please stick your head in the sand with me! Stop talking about games on an internet forum meant for games!"
  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,912Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ender4

     


    Originally posted by AlBQuirky
    After seeing yet another "MMOs are declining" post, I feel the need to say, "STOP IT!!"

     

    The genre is NOT on the decline. The game quality may not be to your liking, or the direction the genre has gone may not please (it certainly displeases me), but NOT in any way, shape, or form is the genre in any kind of decline.

    MORE players are playing MMOs than 14 years ago.
    MORE games are available than 14 years ago.
    MORE money is coming in every month than ever before.

    If this indicates a "decline" to you, you had best go back to school. You missed a class or two on basic business.


     

    Well your post is completely flawed because the market base has expanded very significantly in the past 14 years. MMORPG is a shrinking market at this point, not a growing one compared to the overall gaming market. It is primarily because very little is coming out that is high quality.

    To use a simple comparison. If a movie comes out today that grosses $500M it is considered a success but nothing special, that was the highest grossing film in 2000. The computer gaming industry has exploded over the past 14 years.

    On what do you base your opinion of a shrinking market? There is actual statistical information to back up the OP's point, do you have any at all to back up yours, or do you simply base your opinion on reinforcement theories? Enough people say it so that makes it true?

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,912Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ace5572
    All i can read from this entire thread is: "Please stick your head in the sand with me! Stop talking about games on an internet forum meant for games!"

    IN that case I'd reevaluate your ability to comprehend what others are saying.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Sioux City, IAPosts: 3,828Member


    Originally posted by Jabas

    Originally posted by Avanah
    I think it's the quality of the community that is declining, not the games.
    In some way yes.And what about the shock of  diferent generations of gamers?20 years ago was only 1 generation playing, nowdays its around 3 diferent ones with diferent ideas of gaming.We see that every day in-games and forums.
    I agree with Avanah. The sense of community has definitely declined.

    What you said is false. I was 38 when I first logged into EQ back in 2001. At that time, there kids (10-17), students (18-22), single adults (22-40), married couples (both men and women), and even grandparents (50+). Looks like 2 or 3 generations to me. I played EQ with my son, sometimes. There may have been a slight majority in one of the age groups, but I do not know what that may be.

    You seem to be under the belief that everyone that played when MMOs first launched were in the same age group. That this age group all got older at the same time, and now there is a fluctuation in the age range that did not exist "way back when." That is a wrong assumption.

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

     


    Originally posted by dave6660

    Originally posted by Quirhid
    I proposed a new section dedicated for such threads a while back.

     

    The doom & gloom really does bring the quality of these forums down. Mods should definitely do something about it.


    While we're at it can we have a separate section for "Sub Numbers & Quarterly Earnings".
    While I'd like this, too, that would certainly make "The Pub" almost null and void :)

     

    nah .. people can still flog the dead horses of FFA pvp, perma dead, sandbox vs themepark, and a thousand others in "The Pub".

  • JabasJabas Caldas da RainhaPosts: 1,207Member Common
    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

     


    Originally posted by Jabas

    Originally posted by Avanah
    I think it's the quality of the community that is declining, not the games.

    In some way yes.

     

    And what about the shock of  diferent generations of gamers?

    20 years ago was only 1 generation playing, nowdays its around 3 diferent ones with diferent ideas of gaming.

    We see that every day in-games and forums.


    I agree with Avanah. The sense of community has definitely declined.

     

    What you said is false. I was 38 when I first logged into EQ back in 2001. At that time, there kids (10-17), students (18-22), single adults (22-40), married couples (both men and women), and even grandparents (50+). Looks like 2 or 3 generations to me. I played EQ with my son, sometimes. There may have been a slight majority in one of the age groups, but I do not know what that may be.

    You seem to be under the belief that everyone that played when MMOs first launched were in the same age group. That this age group all got older at the same time, and now there is a fluctuation in the age range that did not exist "way back when." That is a wrong assumption.

    Seems i didnt correct explain myself, and sorry about that because i have some dificults with english.

    When i say "generation" its allways connected to "mmorpgs generation", not only based on ppl age.

    20 years ago the ppl playing mmorpg, from 10yrs old to 80yrs or more i see it in the same mmorpg generation, meanwhile with time games create more diferent generations (gamers) and nowdays we have some "shocks" between diferent ways of thing about what a mmorpgs should be.

    Hope this time i had explain my idea a little better  :) 

     

  • FingzFingz Tucson, AZPosts: 136Member
    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

    MORE players are playing MMOs than 14 years ago.
    MORE games are available than 14 years ago.
    MORE money is coming in every month than ever before.

     

    Do we know the above is fact?  Are these North American players or worldwide?  Do they count Minecraft as an MMO?

    Personally, I think the MMO industry will outlive all of us but I don't think it's growing.  I think it's shrinking.

     

  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,946Member Uncommon
    It's not rocket science, every year more mmo's come out, very little mmo's shut down. Mmos need money to survive therefore every year more money has to come into the genre.

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • rodingorodingo Posts: 2,346Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Quirhid

    I proposed a new section dedicated for such threads a while back.

    The doom & gloom really does bring the quality of these forums down. Mods should definitely do something about it.

    LOL.  So simple it's brilliant!  There really needs to be a subsection in the forum titled:

    Doom & Gloom:  Use these forums to place your predictions and reasons on the decline of MMOs in general.

     

    At the very least I wish the mods would lock all threads on this except for one since they are all pretty much the same topic.  That way all the sad pandas can have their own place to go like the disgruntled SWG Veteran Refuge.

    "If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor

Sign In or Register to comment.