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How you feel about PvE content gated behind PvP?

MMOExposedMMOExposed lalal land, DCPosts: 6,255Member Uncommon

I want to know what you all opinion on PvE content that is gated behind PvP.

the closes example I can think of off the top of my head was a dungeon in WoTLK WoW's PvP zone at level 80. It had 2 raid dungeons I believe. But you had to PvP in order to unlock them.

so they were designed around being gated to PvP .

 

but how do you all feel about that? Are there any improvements to "PvE content gated by PvP content " that you believe should be improved upon?

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Comments

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,638Member Uncommon

    I haven't come across it yet. Not saying it doesn't exist, just that I haven't come across PvE content gated behind PvP in any MMO I've played so far. I've seen PvE content in PvP zones (ex: Aion's raids), though. I wasn't a fan of that but I can see how others might enjoy it. 

     

     

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
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  • cerulean2012cerulean2012 Colorado Springs, COPosts: 367Member Uncommon
    I don't like any content that is gated behind anything in a game.  There shouldn't be content that requires you to pve in order to pvp and vice versa, so for your title of this thread I am against it.
  • Po_ggPo_gg Twigwarren, WestfarthingPosts: 2,714Member Uncommon

    Maybe RaiderZ would've been a better example (before the change), and it chased away players in troves (hence the change later).

    Neverwinter tried the very same (Icewind Dale, choose your side, etc.), but then they left that direction and not putting anything new behind, so pvp stayed just a skipp-able sideway of the endgame. Or something like that. To be honest, haven't checked the new module yet.

     

    For the question, it's n/a to me. I don't pvp in RPGs (ok, on some very rare occasions I do), so I have no feeelings: I simply leave when they try to force it on me.

    (And then I probably send a mail to PWE/Maite about how stupid is the idea to put mandatory pvp in the middle of a pve game :) or not. Ehh, I think I do. Lol.)

  • ScalplessScalpless SnowballvillePosts: 1,395Member Uncommon
    If its goal is to make PvEers interested in PvP, it tends to fail.
  • sunandshadowsunandshadow Pittsburgh, PAPosts: 1,034Member Uncommon

    I generally don't like any content to be gated behind different-type content.  The only exception is tutorials - I'll do a PvP tutorial to unlock a PvE thing without complaint.

    Eh, it's also fairly reasonable that if a game is heavily focused around one type of content, that other types could be gated behind that one type.  So if it was a PvP-central game, well, I wouldn't personally be playing it, but in that context putting PvE behind PvP requirements wouldn't be outrageous.  I've played plenty of games where crafting or minigames had PvE unlock requirements, and it was annoying but not horribly so.


    I want to help design and develop a PvE-focused sandpark MMO, so PM me if you are starting one.
  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 19,973Member Uncommon
    Best example I can think of is Darkness Falls in DAOC. One of the best money earning PVE dungeons in the game, at least in the early days, and the only way you could get access is if your realm took enemy keeps via PVP in the Frontiers.

    Even after that was done, your realm had to go clear out DF of the enemy realm who owned it last, some of the best PVP the game had.

    IMO, this is what set DAOC apart from any game before or after, and what is missing from titles such as WAR, GW2, and now ESO that greatly diminishes their faction PVP.

    Even Mythic back in the day failed to comprehend how important this dungeon was to their game, it gave the PVP purpose, even people who weren't huge fans went out to Keep take, because we wanted in DF.

    I spent a large portion of last year taking keeps in a free shard just to get into DF, night after night, and am looking forward to doing it again, hopefully soon.

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
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  • Azaron_NightbladeAzaron_Nightblade KingsmouthPosts: 2,641Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Scalpless
    If its goal is to make PvEers interested in PvP, it tends to fail.

    ^Pretty much.

    My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)

  • PhryPhry HampshirePosts: 6,288Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Azaron_Nightblade
    Originally posted by Scalpless
    If its goal is to make PvEers interested in PvP, it tends to fail.

    ^Pretty much.

    Its a dumb idea. PvE players may engage in PvP on a voluntary and perhaps casual basis, but any game that gated the PvE content behind PvP would be doomed to failure, or at least a very limited player base because of it.image

  • MukeMuke BredaPosts: 2,166Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by MMOExposed

    I want to know what you all opinion on PvE content that is gated behind PvP.

    the closes example I can think of off the top of my head was a dungeon in WoTLK WoW's PvP zone at level 80. It had 2 raid dungeons I believe. But you had to PvP in order to unlock them.

     

    You leveled to 80, get a flying mount, wait till your faction owns the zone for a few hourse, when your side held the fortress you would just fly to it and straight in or use the portals to get inside. no PVP involved if you didn't want to.

     

     

     

    "going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,260Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kyleran


    IMO, this is what set DAOC apart from any game before or after, and what is missing from titles such as WAR, GW2, and now ESO that greatly diminishes their faction PVP.

     

    I figured he was talking about the upcoming ESO Imperial City update. As far as faction pride in ESO? We hate each other. There maybe not be guild pride or something, but faction? It's there. 

  • dave6660dave6660 New York, NYPosts: 2,543Member Uncommon

    Traditionally, PvP players have had to grind dozens of mindless PvE levels and spend hours grinding gear to get a character ready for their favorite part of the game.

    It would be funny to see the shoe on the other foot.

    “There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.”
    -- Herman Melville

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member

    Very bad idea.

    Those players who like the pve content but not the pvp content either a) have to sit through content they don't like, or b) find some other game.

     

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member
    Originally posted by MMOExposed

    I want to know what you all opinion on PvE content that is gated behind PvP.

    the closes example I can think of off the top of my head was a dungeon in WoTLK WoW's PvP zone at level 80. It had 2 raid dungeons I believe. But you had to PvP in order to unlock them.

    so they were designed around being gated to PvP .

     

    but how do you all feel about that? Are there any improvements to "PvE content gated by PvP content " that you believe should be improved upon?

     

    I enjoyed the heck out of Lake Wintersgrasp, but that was mostly because it was large scale PvP with a lot of action and tangible rewards.  I would have played Lake Wintersgrasp without the PvE content if they just had vendors and things to buy when your faction won.

     

    I don't know about an entire game based around the idea though.  Lake Wintersgrasp was a large scale PvP zone, but people had a choice about whether or not to participate, and when the battles weren't happening, players had a choice about whether or not to run through there doing things.  That's probably the important part.  Because people had a choice, many people chose to go there.

     

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • Ender4Ender4 milwaukee, WIPosts: 2,253Member

    PvP and PvE won't be very good until someone fully integrates them again. Sadly the EQ model is still the best I've seen and they didn't even care about PvP. The most fun I've ever had in PvP was getting jumped by an enemy guild while doing a PvE raid so you had to deal with both at the same time. Just fighting in some silly PvP only zone is nothing like 'real PvP' and your idea of gating isn't one I care for either. They should be blended if even only on a single server per game since many people can't handle other players having an impact on their gameplay.

    I considered GW2 unplayable because they didn't have any open world PvP. The PvE was just completely dull with no threat of other players and the PvP was completely static when all you did was kill, respawn, kill.

  • cyberpunkhobocyberpunkhobo Toronto, ONPosts: 71Member Common
    I too had a lot of fun doing Wintergrasp and Tol Barad during my time in WoW. The PvE instances in those zones played a big role in helping me convince fellow guildies--who might not have otherwise done so--to engage in a little bit of PvP on occasion. And you know what? Sometimes they even enjoyed it.

    In my opinion, PvE-ers are not universally opposed to PvP; they just don't like certain kinds of PvP. Likewise, PvP-ers are not universally opposed to PvE; they just don't want it to be mandatory in order to PvP. If the content gate is casual-friendly and the content, itself, is entirely optional then I'm okay with it being locked away from me until I try my hand at something I don't normally do.
  • PepeqPepeq Poway, CAPosts: 1,486Member Uncommon
    The raid within Wintergrasp was an utter joke... the PVP within Wintergrasp was an utter joke.  You want an entire game designed like this?
  • EridanixEridanix Orbital IkraliPosts: 426Member
    In some cases and considered excepcionally as a gate to a wonderful incredible top PvE raid is not a bad idea. But it's frantic absurd to gate PvE behind what with the time becomes bland PvP, as the people who are there are PvE'rs in search of a new adventure, and with the time this kind of PvP becomes only a transaction between two "merchant-mentality" parts.

    It is a question of fangs.

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Sioux City, IAPosts: 3,828Member

    Interesting how this is the opposite of what most MMOs with PvP and PvE have implemented. That being PvP content gated behind PvE. Many MMOs with PvP make the PvPers go through X levels before they can PvP.

    It is a stupid way to function in that case and equally as stupid in your flip of the situation.

    I would not play the game, personally. Just say "No!" to PvP :)

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • Cephus404Cephus404 Redlands, CAPosts: 3,675Member
    I would never play it and would probably leave that game entirely if I encountered it.  I will never PvP, ever, under any circumstances.  If I'm pushed into doing something I don't want to do in order to do something I do want to do, I'll take my business elsewhere.

    Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
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  • BenediktBenedikt PraguePosts: 1,406Member Uncommon
    only way i would be kind of ok with it would be if the pvp part was something like event, as was opening AQ in WoW - each side would have to achieve some PvP milestones/quests but once the content would be unlocked, noone would have to PvP to participate
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Chicago, ILPosts: 1,499Member Uncommon

    If the PVE content is enjoyable I have done it in PVP zones and even in PVP open world games.  But the content has to be really good or have really good escape mechanics like L2 had blessed escape scrolls that instantly teleported you into town. The PK'er could only get you if he took you out with one burst which actually never happened to me, one did come very close once.  I got ganked mostly in low level zones where they would go after noobs for easy kills, but once you leveled you were mostly left alone.  And even in that game open PVP never became a major problem.  Also played Eve because I liked exploring the PVE content.

     

     

    "Change is the only constant."

  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Eglin AFB, FLPosts: 651Member Uncommon
    I enjoyed DF just like every other vanilla/Shrouded Isles DAoC player that I know, but it was a stroke of genius that was probably unintentionally balanced.

    Darkness falls had separate wings that fed in from each realm's land, got progressively more dangerous (ranging from mid-level mobs up to elite mobs only taken down by groups), and was opened to PvE players OUTSIDE the PvP zones whenever that realm owned a majority of frontier (PvP) keeps. PvE players never HAD to PvP, with Shrouded Isles there were other PvE areas always available that provided competitive rewards, and would always have the chance to enter DF (at least on my server, all 3 realms experienced its ownership on a fairly common basis). However, if players of a realm really wanted time in that dungeon, they could help out the realm in the frontier. An awesome system that created connections between PvPers and PvEers without forcing anyone to do anything they didn't want to do. All Mythic had to do was ensure population balances to help keep the dungeon from being perma-owned by a certain realm(s).

    Any other instance of PvE content gated behind PvP content should model it after the DF system. They could create their own unique system that struck the balance, but track records show it might be best to just emulate an old system that worked.

    image
  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member

    Darkfall is adding PvE content, and while it probably won't be gated behind PvP content, players will certainly have to participate in the PvP content to play the PvE content. :-)

     

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • JaedorJaedor Denver, COPosts: 1,140Member Uncommon

    OP, that's the only instance I can think of where PvE is gated by PvP. And it actually worked in WoW. Mostly I think because it was a matter of quick, one-boss fights that dropped good loot. Easy to pug, quick in and out. And maybe you stayed to PvP afterwards.


    But generally, I think it's a pretty bad idea. Props to Blizz for making it work.

  • MMOExposedMMOExposed lalal land, DCPosts: 6,255Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Best example I can think of is Darkness Falls in DAOC. One of the best money earning PVE dungeons in the game, at least in the early days, and the only way you could get access is if your realm took enemy keeps via PVP in the Frontiers.

    Even after that was done, your realm had to go clear out DF of the enemy realm who owned it last, some of the best PVP the game had.

    IMO, this is what set DAOC apart from any game before or after, and what is missing from titles such as WAR, GW2, and now ESO that greatly diminishes their faction PVP.

    Even Mythic back in the day failed to comprehend how important this dungeon was to their game, it gave the PVP purpose, even people who weren't huge fans went out to Keep take, because we wanted in DF.

    I spent a large portion of last year taking keeps in a free shard just to get into DF, night after night, and am looking forward to doing it again, hopefully soon.

    I never played DAoC, so can you explained how Darkness Falls worked, and why it was successful where most here seem to say that model isnt interesting?

    image

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