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How you feel about PvE content gated behind PvP?
MMOExposed
Member RarePosts: 7,387
I want to know what you all opinion on PvE content that is gated behind PvP.
the closes example I can think of off the top of my head was a dungeon in WoTLK WoW's PvP zone at level 80. It had 2 raid dungeons I believe. But you had to PvP in order to unlock them.
so they were designed around being gated to PvP .
but how do you all feel about that? Are there any improvements to "PvE content gated by PvP content " that you believe should be improved upon?
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
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I haven't come across it yet. Not saying it doesn't exist, just that I haven't come across PvE content gated behind PvP in any MMO I've played so far. I've seen PvE content in PvP zones (ex: Aion's raids), though. I wasn't a fan of that but I can see how others might enjoy it.
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Maybe RaiderZ would've been a better example (before the change), and it chased away players in troves (hence the change later).
Neverwinter tried the very same (Icewind Dale, choose your side, etc.), but then they left that direction and not putting anything new behind, so pvp stayed just a skipp-able sideway of the endgame. Or something like that. To be honest, haven't checked the new module yet.
For the question, it's n/a to me. I don't pvp in RPGs (ok, on some very rare occasions I do), so I have no feeelings: I simply leave when they try to force it on me.
(And then I probably send a mail to PWE/Maite about how stupid is the idea to put mandatory pvp in the middle of a pve game
or not. Ehh, I think I do. Lol.)
I generally don't like any content to be gated behind different-type content. The only exception is tutorials - I'll do a PvP tutorial to unlock a PvE thing without complaint.
Eh, it's also fairly reasonable that if a game is heavily focused around one type of content, that other types could be gated behind that one type. So if it was a PvP-central game, well, I wouldn't personally be playing it, but in that context putting PvE behind PvP requirements wouldn't be outrageous. I've played plenty of games where crafting or minigames had PvE unlock requirements, and it was annoying but not horribly so.
Even after that was done, your realm had to go clear out DF of the enemy realm who owned it last, some of the best PVP the game had.
IMO, this is what set DAOC apart from any game before or after, and what is missing from titles such as WAR, GW2, and now ESO that greatly diminishes their faction PVP.
Even Mythic back in the day failed to comprehend how important this dungeon was to their game, it gave the PVP purpose, even people who weren't huge fans went out to Keep take, because we wanted in DF.
I spent a large portion of last year taking keeps in a free shard just to get into DF, night after night, and am looking forward to doing it again, hopefully soon.
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Its a dumb idea. PvE players may engage in PvP on a voluntary and perhaps casual basis, but any game that gated the PvE content behind PvP would be doomed to failure, or at least a very limited player base because of it.
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I figured he was talking about the upcoming ESO Imperial City update. As far as faction pride in ESO? We hate each other. There maybe not be guild pride or something, but faction? It's there.
Traditionally, PvP players have had to grind dozens of mindless PvE levels and spend hours grinding gear to get a character ready for their favorite part of the game.
It would be funny to see the shoe on the other foot.
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Very bad idea.
Those players who like the pve content but not the pvp content either a) have to sit through content they don't like, or b) find some other game.
I enjoyed the heck out of Lake Wintersgrasp, but that was mostly because it was large scale PvP with a lot of action and tangible rewards. I would have played Lake Wintersgrasp without the PvE content if they just had vendors and things to buy when your faction won.
I don't know about an entire game based around the idea though. Lake Wintersgrasp was a large scale PvP zone, but people had a choice about whether or not to participate, and when the battles weren't happening, players had a choice about whether or not to run through there doing things. That's probably the important part. Because people had a choice, many people chose to go there.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
PvP and PvE won't be very good until someone fully integrates them again. Sadly the EQ model is still the best I've seen and they didn't even care about PvP. The most fun I've ever had in PvP was getting jumped by an enemy guild while doing a PvE raid so you had to deal with both at the same time. Just fighting in some silly PvP only zone is nothing like 'real PvP' and your idea of gating isn't one I care for either. They should be blended if even only on a single server per game since many people can't handle other players having an impact on their gameplay.
I considered GW2 unplayable because they didn't have any open world PvP. The PvE was just completely dull with no threat of other players and the PvP was completely static when all you did was kill, respawn, kill.
In my opinion, PvE-ers are not universally opposed to PvP; they just don't like certain kinds of PvP. Likewise, PvP-ers are not universally opposed to PvE; they just don't want it to be mandatory in order to PvP. If the content gate is casual-friendly and the content, itself, is entirely optional then I'm okay with it being locked away from me until I try my hand at something I don't normally do.
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Interesting how this is the opposite of what most MMOs with PvP and PvE have implemented. That being PvP content gated behind PvE. Many MMOs with PvP make the PvPers go through X levels before they can PvP.
It is a stupid way to function in that case and equally as stupid in your flip of the situation.
I would not play the game, personally. Just say "No!" to PvP
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If the PVE content is enjoyable I have done it in PVP zones and even in PVP open world games. But the content has to be really good or have really good escape mechanics like L2 had blessed escape scrolls that instantly teleported you into town. The PK'er could only get you if he took you out with one burst which actually never happened to me, one did come very close once. I got ganked mostly in low level zones where they would go after noobs for easy kills, but once you leveled you were mostly left alone. And even in that game open PVP never became a major problem. Also played Eve because I liked exploring the PVE content.
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Darkness falls had separate wings that fed in from each realm's land, got progressively more dangerous (ranging from mid-level mobs up to elite mobs only taken down by groups), and was opened to PvE players OUTSIDE the PvP zones whenever that realm owned a majority of frontier (PvP) keeps. PvE players never HAD to PvP, with Shrouded Isles there were other PvE areas always available that provided competitive rewards, and would always have the chance to enter DF (at least on my server, all 3 realms experienced its ownership on a fairly common basis). However, if players of a realm really wanted time in that dungeon, they could help out the realm in the frontier. An awesome system that created connections between PvPers and PvEers without forcing anyone to do anything they didn't want to do. All Mythic had to do was ensure population balances to help keep the dungeon from being perma-owned by a certain realm(s).
Any other instance of PvE content gated behind PvP content should model it after the DF system. They could create their own unique system that struck the balance, but track records show it might be best to just emulate an old system that worked.
Darkfall is adding PvE content, and while it probably won't be gated behind PvP content, players will certainly have to participate in the PvP content to play the PvE content. :-)
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
OP, that's the only instance I can think of where PvE is gated by PvP. And it actually worked in WoW. Mostly I think because it was a matter of quick, one-boss fights that dropped good loot. Easy to pug, quick in and out. And maybe you stayed to PvP afterwards.
But generally, I think it's a pretty bad idea. Props to Blizz for making it work.
I never played DAoC, so can you explained how Darkness Falls worked, and why it was successful where most here seem to say that model isnt interesting?
Philosophy of MMO Game Design