The players today. Very few of them are interested in the RPG aspect anymore. Most players just want to jump into the game for a few minutes here and there and kill stuff. If it is inefficient or cuts into their XP/Minute grinding, it is a waste of time.
These are the same players that made the genre blossom into what it has become. They made it a multi-billon dollar industry. We will not be going back anytime soon...
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
I would love a game having the combat and quests systems of GW2 combined with the RPG elements of SWTOR and ESO and a pretty decent end-game like that of WoW and SWTOR; Wildstar's end-game is bad, especially with the timer system where groups immediately disband after a failed boss and rewards don't seem that good. Also, art direction of GW2 is fantastic and would love it as well, i really hate cartoon themed MMOs.
Lack of these consist of my complaints with modern MMOs. Too many MMOs in the market containing some good features but not all for me.
If someone comes up with the game having what i listed above, i will probably never leave it.
they are all the same.. well since wow they have all been themepark clones..sure they have tiny variations but under those little variations they are all basically the same game.
Saying that since kickstarter arrived we now have a load of Sandbox mmorpgs in development and even some of the big AAA developers have realised there is a market out there for other types of MMORPGs no one wants wow clones..
I think the next 10 years for mmorpgs is going to be very different and a hell of a lot better. That is not to say there wont be any themepark games of coruse there will but there will bit a lot more choice for the people who dislike that type of MMORPG.
My number one complaint about most modern day MMOs is that they lack immersion. Games are so focused on features, balance, storyline, etc but most seem to lack the ability to make the gamer feel attached and immersed in their character and in the game.
I know some will say that storyline is what captures the gamer but I would disagree. Sure storyline and it's delivery are important but these things by themselves do not captivate most gamers. A good example is watching a sport verses playing a sport, which is similar to what I am talking about with most modern MMOs. When I first picked up EQ and WoW I felt like I was the story, my character was part of a ever changing digital world and my purpose there was to pwn players and NPCs alike. I have yet to play a game since TBC WoW that has made me feel like that. I was never particularly immersed in the WoW storyline but I was deeply immersed in my character and I felt as if he had a purpose inside that digital world.
I think this is my main issue as well.
Modern mmo's are too full of trivial distractions and pointless achievements in every corner of every map as well as the ubiquitous fast travel. It is as if they are designed for people with ADHD.
There is no longer any room to go out and explore in persistent open world, or to have that sensation of getting lost or of discovery or of being far away from home in unsafe territory. Rather every zone is designed like a playground with every part of them occupied by some piece of apparatus to play on for a couple of minutes before moving on to the next.
A weekend in Vegas might be fun, but if I had three weeks to spare I would rather spend it climbing to Machu Picchu. I think this is the difference between current mmo design and what I would like to see in my mmo's.
I would love a game having the combat and quests systems of GW2 combined with the RPG elements of SWTOR and ESO and a pretty decent end-game like that of WoW and SWTOR; Wildstar's end-game is bad, especially with the timer system where groups immediately disband after a failed boss and rewards don't seem that good. Also, art direction of GW2 is fantastic and would love it as well, i really hate cartoon themed MMOs.
Lack of these consist of my complaints with modern MMOs. Too many MMOs in the market containing some good features but not all for me.
If someone comes up with the game having what i listed above, i will probably never leave it.
You would - very probably at least and rather sooner than later.
Reason is simple: More of the same doesn't get better with some new colours on the label. You'dl feel all too familiar very soon, then would start raging on the forums and then quit.
And there we are at my biggest complaint (not aimed at you personally, but your post was a good starting point): The playerbase who left one game because it "got old" enters a new game with some novel concepts and even before launch starts whining on the forums and blogs why this game has not all the features of the game they just left. The developers cave in to "popular demand" and then those same people leave the game in a hurry, since - after all - it is just the "same old, same old."
What The Fuck?
All those players "demanding" that a game which was designed around completely different principles "must have", dungeon finder, dps meter, addon api (for bossmods and quest helpers), consensual pvp etc. are the second biggest PITA in modern gaming. The biggest are moronic developers caving in to marketing and forum blabber and regularly destroying perfectly OK games with their lack of vision, plan and steadfastness. Marketing rules supreme and unfortunately by its risk-averseness chokes the (possible) creativity of the developers and designers and effectively cancels almost all novel ideas out. The result are bad hybrids and outright clones like ESO, Wildstar, SWTOR and a plethora of others.
I hate it when MMOs launch with 100 zones made for levelling, you get max level and there's like 1 zone, 2-3 instances and 1-2 generic options for pvp.
I'd like to see 50-80% less levelling zones and the time that is saved to be put into end game, making engaging systems (PVE and PVP - specially PVP which seems like an afterthought in a lot of games), balancing, testing...
Dunno, almost every new MMO seems simplistic nowadays (uu, i have 6 skills on my bar - looking at you ESO) or relying heavily on RNG/mindless grind for longevity (like having 1:1 million chance to get best stuff in a game where having best stuff makes you a rape machine). And 1-2 shot mechanics in PVP...I friggin hate those.
I hate it when MMOs launch with 100 zones made for levelling, you get max level and there's like 1 zone, 2-3 instances and 1-2 generic options for pvp.
I'd like to see 50-80% less levelling zones and the time that is saved to be put into end game, making engaging systems (PVE and PVP - specially PVP which seems like an afterthought in a lot of games), balancing, testing...
Dunno, almost every new MMO seems simplistic nowadays (uu, i have 6 skills on my bar - looking at you ESO) or relying heavily on RNG/mindless grind for longevity (like having 1:1 million chance to get best stuff in a game where having best stuff makes you a rape machine). And 1-2 shot mechanics in PVP...I friggin hate those.
I enjoy the journey more than the destination. But in a game like Wildstar that is supposed to be all about the endgame I cannot even begin to fathom why so many resources were wasted on levelling zones. Why didn't they just make a huge and interesting endgame map and get rid of levels, or reduce the level cap down to an introductory experience?
Instead they have 90% of the map that will be forever dead, while people repeat the other 10% over and over and over and over trying to get to the gated content, which they will then repeat over and over and over and over.
Yeah we got better graphics and voice acting and phasing (if you call that innovation) but there has really been nothing done new.
Why are we still playing on maps, zoned or instanced, instead of playing on actual worlds. I mean if you were to start walking in a straight line eventually you would come back to the point you started at.
Why are we still using levels and con systems. I don't want to know if a mob I have never seen before will aggro or is way too tough for me to fight just by targeting it. Let me find out on my own. If I see another player in pvp let me judge if I should attack him based on how he looks and what gear he has on.
Why are we still fighting against mobs with crap AI. I'm tired of seeing monsters just standing around waiting to get killed or killing an orc and his buddy is just a few feet away but does nothing because he is out of aggro range.
You want players to pay attention to dialog, GET RID OF QUEST MARKERS and have the quest giver give directions on where to go. In the past, if you accepted a quest without reading it you would be screwed.
Would any of us who are looking for the next great MMO recognize it if it hit the market today?
I doubt it. It seems like people get so hung up on the past games they played that they can't sit and enjoy a game for what it is and understand the developer's vision and what they're trying to do. If people do research on the game before they play, they would have a better idea of whether or not it's for them and then choose to play it or not.
It doesn't matter how great a game's systems are when people can't allow themselves to like them for what they are.
My biggest gripe with modern MMOs is probably the vocal minority of people who always want something changed. You have people that go and complain on forums about things that should (for the most part) be non-issues then developers go and change up their game to satisfy these people and potentially anger others.
People who like the games should probably post more in forums telling the developer that they're doing a good job, but then, we're too busy actually playing the game.
Another gripe I have is with the whole min/maxing aspect. Now don't get me wrong: I do it sometimes too with my builds. But it sucks when you can't get a group or people are mad at you for not being able to put out an extreme amount of damage/healing because you happen to have a hybrid build or at least a "non-optimal" build that you find fun to play.
I'm tired of the character level based games. You are guided on where to go by people with "!" above their heads with quests that lack depth to them. I don't want to be confined or told where I should be at, I want to travel to the dragon's cave right off the bat even though my skills lack any punch to them I still have somewhat of a chance to vanquish him/her.
Use to be you could get immersed in what was going on in a dungeon, then it became how fast can we complete it or keep moving to the next spot. Sometimes you couldn't watch the pre or post movies that were going on because your team was already down the hallway or moving on to next area. Though that's with society anymore I say, almost everyone seems to be in a hurry.
I like my healing, but I don't want to be limited to just carrying a staff that gives me the magical power. I want to carry a shield as well, though some games give me this it just doesn't seem to be enough of them; or if they do it's a lower level of healing since apparently I'm not considered a healer since I'm not actually using the staff. GW2 allowed me some healing/buffing duties but wasn't something they let you fully focus in, I guess ArcheAge is next in line with this.
The overall change in business models over the past 10 years. IMO, this change is the "knee-jerk" response as developers and publishers have tried to keep their shitty games from going under and blaming the subscription based business model instead of their own cash grab game designs despite the fact that there are games still out there that prove the sub model is viable.
The players today. Very few of them are interested in the RPG aspect anymore. Most players just want to jump into the game for a few minutes here and there and kill stuff. If it is inefficient or cuts into their XP/Minute grinding, it is a waste of time.
These are the same players that made the genre blossom into what it has become. They made it a multi-billon dollar industry. We will not be going back anytime soon...
This is it in a nutshell. The RPG is just missing from mmo's now.They are nothing more than combat sims with some crafting on the side. If someone made an mmo that pushed the social RPG thats missing in mmo's now no one would play it. Today they are about competing against each other than roleplaying. This is all because the console generation playing mmo's now. Look at Wow for a minute. Wow has zero social areas in the cities. The social zones in wow are the auction houses. Pre wow most mmo's had clubs or bars where players had the down time to roleplay or be social. And players used those places in games. I have always said mmo's were more fun pre wow when just adult computer nerds played them.
Now it's just my game is better than yours, your game sucks, all games should go FTP, game is too easy, game is too hard, there's no endgame, etc etc. Non-stop whining. It's ridiculous reading all MMORPG forums.
"What Is Your Biggest Complaint About Modern MMOs"
Well it would have to be community and the demand to be spoon feed everything.. including immersion and "ambiance".
Beyond that i think the genre is developing nice. While it has yet to reach it´s full potential, we have a good variety of MMO styles and content.
Or was the point that i should gripe about how nothing lives up to my rose-tinted "first time"... *bleeeep* that. That kind of nostalgia is reserved for old people and marketing departments.
Seems these days if a game isn't the OMG GREATEST GAME EVER, it's the WORST POS EVER. Why can't people be allowed to like their game without everyone else jumping down their throat trying to convince him or her their game is or isn't worth their time.
There are no discussions, no meaningful experiences any more because the whole MMO crowd has gone down the toilet.
I yearn for the days before MMOs became mainstream. Then it was niche and the community as a whole was better. Now all I see is people trying to destroy a game's reputation because of childish antics.
That they are overly simple and require exactly zero effort. Also they don't require any social interaction. They are for the most part solo games that happen to be taking place around other players who are also playing the same solo game simultanously.
It should take month and month to reach maximum level with a character. There shouldn't even be an endgame because lets face it endgame means "The End of the Game" or "Game Over". The game shouldn't just be starting at that point because you should never reach it (ie about the time you are able to finish existing content, a new expansion is coming out). 2 weeks to max level is BS.
I remember Everquest. I played for 2.5 years and never managed to see every zone in that game and my gear was mediocre at best mostly because things were so difficult. You also never quit progressing, even at max level because there was always some Alternate Advancement points to earn that made your character just slightly better. It was with real excitement when I finally managed to level enough to got to Velious for the first time or was actually able to delve deep into a dangerous dungeon for the best loot for the first time.
Also I miss the social experience. You had to group to accomplish anything and that downtime actually forced you to talk and interact with your fellow players. Also the servers were rather small populations so you couldn't be an arsehat if you wanted to be included in groups. You even had to learn to play your character (gasp) or else people didn't want you in groups.
EQ had its issues. It was probably overly harsh with its death penalties and it was definately kind of stupid that you couldn't solo an even level mod (should have been hard but not impossible though less effiicient than grouping), but other than that it was a much better model that current MMOs. The super fast leveling and relying on activites that take place after the game ends needs to go away and go away fast.
There seems to be a few general themes here. Gamers want more freedom, less linear questing, and the tight knit communities of old. This is not a crazy pie in the sky list by any means.
It's good to see so many gamers are passionate about the genre, it's about time the devs and the investors start listening.
Let say that in an ancient MMO developer had idea that player might want to climb a tree and check if there is bird nest there.
He would just put it in the game, although there was not really animation for it and it looked wonky.
But today - if there is no perfect animation with great sound and effects, it would never be allowed in game.
This is why we have everything limited. You can do only certain actions that were tested, approved and polished.
Its severely focused and limited.
From this we have lack of variety and lack of immersion
Good point which might explain one of my "complaints": Not many new things.
Might this be because at least to me it seems that testing stages aren't used for testing anymore but more for advertising? Maybe to explain that... To stay in your climbing example, why not add the up-down movement in alpha to test if it works without any animation, just the z change and nest-checking mechanic. Then in closed beta add a simple animation, open beta a bit improved one with a sound attached to it and polish before launch. But if it has to be perfect in alpha because it is ment as ad and not a test then the thing is doomed from the start.
My 2nd "complain" would be that I really dont care about characters anymore. I blaim classes for this because the 2 games in which I cared about my chars were Asherons Call and Fallen Earth. Both of them have a skill/char system that lets you pick the skills you want from all the skills in the game.
In games with classes you are stuck with you class skillset and all the "Tanks" have the same, "Healers" all are the same aso. A char isn't what I want but I have to pick the class that comes closest to what I like. So I have to adjust to the char and can't adjust the char to me.
The irony that MMOs today are single player games with an optional multiplayer dimension.
Secondly, difficulty. Now, granted, this is part of the 'single player' issue, but I hark from the Verant style EQ where a single monster, even if you were a higher level, could very well demolish you in a fight. What did this require? Teamwork. As the idea progresses, less and less is actual teamwork required nowadays in the day-to-day experience of many MMOs.
Thirdly, character development. I want to play a character the way I want to. Old school UO is a good example of this done well (although, I'd prefer no cap but simply the skills you don't use will wane overtime).
Meaningful death experiences. In many modern MMOs, you get a little slap on the hand for dying. I'm not sure which game handles this the best, but this type of feeling causes me to play games with Hardcore modes; it makes every once trivial choice now very, very important.
Freedom. I would like several options where I'd like to strengthen my character, and I don't want to be tied down to a string of quests to hold my hand through new terrain. Let me figure out the challenges you've spent years designing without throwing it in my face.
Comments
Three way tie for me..
The players today. Very few of them are interested in the RPG aspect anymore. Most players just want to jump into the game for a few minutes here and there and kill stuff. If it is inefficient or cuts into their XP/Minute grinding, it is a waste of time.
These are the same players that made the genre blossom into what it has become. They made it a multi-billon dollar industry. We will not be going back anytime soon...
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
I would love a game having the combat and quests systems of GW2 combined with the RPG elements of SWTOR and ESO and a pretty decent end-game like that of WoW and SWTOR; Wildstar's end-game is bad, especially with the timer system where groups immediately disband after a failed boss and rewards don't seem that good. Also, art direction of GW2 is fantastic and would love it as well, i really hate cartoon themed MMOs.
Lack of these consist of my complaints with modern MMOs. Too many MMOs in the market containing some good features but not all for me.
If someone comes up with the game having what i listed above, i will probably never leave it.
they are all the same.. well since wow they have all been themepark clones..sure they have tiny variations but under those little variations they are all basically the same game.
Saying that since kickstarter arrived we now have a load of Sandbox mmorpgs in development and even some of the big AAA developers have realised there is a market out there for other types of MMORPGs no one wants wow clones..
I think the next 10 years for mmorpgs is going to be very different and a hell of a lot better. That is not to say there wont be any themepark games of coruse there will but there will bit a lot more choice for the people who dislike that type of MMORPG.
I think this is my main issue as well.
Modern mmo's are too full of trivial distractions and pointless achievements in every corner of every map as well as the ubiquitous fast travel. It is as if they are designed for people with ADHD.
There is no longer any room to go out and explore in persistent open world, or to have that sensation of getting lost or of discovery or of being far away from home in unsafe territory. Rather every zone is designed like a playground with every part of them occupied by some piece of apparatus to play on for a couple of minutes before moving on to the next.
A weekend in Vegas might be fun, but if I had three weeks to spare I would rather spend it climbing to Machu Picchu. I think this is the difference between current mmo design and what I would like to see in my mmo's.
You would - very probably at least and rather sooner than later.
Reason is simple: More of the same doesn't get better with some new colours on the label. You'dl feel all too familiar very soon, then would start raging on the forums and then quit.
And there we are at my biggest complaint (not aimed at you personally, but your post was a good starting point): The playerbase who left one game because it "got old" enters a new game with some novel concepts and even before launch starts whining on the forums and blogs why this game has not all the features of the game they just left. The developers cave in to "popular demand" and then those same people leave the game in a hurry, since - after all - it is just the "same old, same old."
What The Fuck?
All those players "demanding" that a game which was designed around completely different principles "must have", dungeon finder, dps meter, addon api (for bossmods and quest helpers), consensual pvp etc. are the second biggest PITA in modern gaming. The biggest are moronic developers caving in to marketing and forum blabber and regularly destroying perfectly OK games with their lack of vision, plan and steadfastness. Marketing rules supreme and unfortunately by its risk-averseness chokes the (possible) creativity of the developers and designers and effectively cancels almost all novel ideas out. The result are bad hybrids and outright clones like ESO, Wildstar, SWTOR and a plethora of others.
I hate it when MMOs launch with 100 zones made for levelling, you get max level and there's like 1 zone, 2-3 instances and 1-2 generic options for pvp.
I'd like to see 50-80% less levelling zones and the time that is saved to be put into end game, making engaging systems (PVE and PVP - specially PVP which seems like an afterthought in a lot of games), balancing, testing...
Dunno, almost every new MMO seems simplistic nowadays (uu, i have 6 skills on my bar - looking at you ESO) or relying heavily on RNG/mindless grind for longevity (like having 1:1 million chance to get best stuff in a game where having best stuff makes you a rape machine). And 1-2 shot mechanics in PVP...I friggin hate those.
They arent fun.
No intellectual challenge.
Simplified to hell.
I enjoy the journey more than the destination. But in a game like Wildstar that is supposed to be all about the endgame I cannot even begin to fathom why so many resources were wasted on levelling zones. Why didn't they just make a huge and interesting endgame map and get rid of levels, or reduce the level cap down to an introductory experience?
Instead they have 90% of the map that will be forever dead, while people repeat the other 10% over and over and over and over trying to get to the gated content, which they will then repeat over and over and over and over.
No true advances and too much hand holding.
Yeah we got better graphics and voice acting and phasing (if you call that innovation) but there has really been nothing done new.
Why are we still playing on maps, zoned or instanced, instead of playing on actual worlds. I mean if you were to start walking in a straight line eventually you would come back to the point you started at.
Why are we still using levels and con systems. I don't want to know if a mob I have never seen before will aggro or is way too tough for me to fight just by targeting it. Let me find out on my own. If I see another player in pvp let me judge if I should attack him based on how he looks and what gear he has on.
Why are we still fighting against mobs with crap AI. I'm tired of seeing monsters just standing around waiting to get killed or killing an orc and his buddy is just a few feet away but does nothing because he is out of aggro range.
You want players to pay attention to dialog, GET RID OF QUEST MARKERS and have the quest giver give directions on where to go. In the past, if you accepted a quest without reading it you would be screwed.
The Brave Do Not Fear The Grave
I doubt it. It seems like people get so hung up on the past games they played that they can't sit and enjoy a game for what it is and understand the developer's vision and what they're trying to do. If people do research on the game before they play, they would have a better idea of whether or not it's for them and then choose to play it or not.
It doesn't matter how great a game's systems are when people can't allow themselves to like them for what they are.
My biggest gripe with modern MMOs is probably the vocal minority of people who always want something changed. You have people that go and complain on forums about things that should (for the most part) be non-issues then developers go and change up their game to satisfy these people and potentially anger others.
People who like the games should probably post more in forums telling the developer that they're doing a good job, but then, we're too busy actually playing the game.
Another gripe I have is with the whole min/maxing aspect. Now don't get me wrong: I do it sometimes too with my builds. But it sucks when you can't get a group or people are mad at you for not being able to put out an extreme amount of damage/healing because you happen to have a hybrid build or at least a "non-optimal" build that you find fun to play.
WoW questing.
Catering to casual players.
Everybody is a winner. Everybody is the hero.
Solo friendly leveling/endgame which leads to terrible, antisocial communities.
DAoC - Excalibur & Camlann
I'm tired of the character level based games. You are guided on where to go by people with "!" above their heads with quests that lack depth to them. I don't want to be confined or told where I should be at, I want to travel to the dragon's cave right off the bat even though my skills lack any punch to them I still have somewhat of a chance to vanquish him/her.
Use to be you could get immersed in what was going on in a dungeon, then it became how fast can we complete it or keep moving to the next spot. Sometimes you couldn't watch the pre or post movies that were going on because your team was already down the hallway or moving on to next area. Though that's with society anymore I say, almost everyone seems to be in a hurry.
I like my healing, but I don't want to be limited to just carrying a staff that gives me the magical power. I want to carry a shield as well, though some games give me this it just doesn't seem to be enough of them; or if they do it's a lower level of healing since apparently I'm not considered a healer since I'm not actually using the staff. GW2 allowed me some healing/buffing duties but wasn't something they let you fully focus in, I guess ArcheAge is next in line with this.
The overall change in business models over the past 10 years. IMO, this change is the "knee-jerk" response as developers and publishers have tried to keep their shitty games from going under and blaming the subscription based business model instead of their own cash grab game designs despite the fact that there are games still out there that prove the sub model is viable.
This is it in a nutshell. The RPG is just missing from mmo's now.They are nothing more than combat sims with some crafting on the side. If someone made an mmo that pushed the social RPG thats missing in mmo's now no one would play it. Today they are about competing against each other than roleplaying. This is all because the console generation playing mmo's now. Look at Wow for a minute. Wow has zero social areas in the cities. The social zones in wow are the auction houses. Pre wow most mmo's had clubs or bars where players had the down time to roleplay or be social. And players used those places in games. I have always said mmo's were more fun pre wow when just adult computer nerds played them.
1. RMT existance
2. Players - most of them do not want, what I want from an gaming an mmorpg title.
3. Game companies - developing not with my expectations in mind
4. AI - lack of it
5. Streamlining
6. Selling alpha, beta, releasing bugged content, not fixing exploits fast enough,
7. MMORPGs not being games about fictional world simulation, but being bad single player rpg's crossed over with lobby token games.
8. Nerfs, buffs and generally frequent changes to the game world in order to gain new playerbase or appease some player group.
tl; dr
No MMO, no Virtual World, no RPG as I understand them exist anymore in modern mmorpg's.
The players period.
There use to be discussions about the games.
Now it's just my game is better than yours, your game sucks, all games should go FTP, game is too easy, game is too hard, there's no endgame, etc etc. Non-stop whining. It's ridiculous reading all MMORPG forums.
"What Is Your Biggest Complaint About Modern MMOs"
Well it would have to be community and the demand to be spoon feed everything.. including immersion and "ambiance".
Beyond that i think the genre is developing nice. While it has yet to reach it´s full potential, we have a good variety of MMO styles and content.
Or was the point that i should gripe about how nothing lives up to my rose-tinted "first time"... *bleeeep* that. That kind of nostalgia is reserved for old people and marketing departments.
This have been a good conversation
That sums it up for me.
That they are overly simple and require exactly zero effort. Also they don't require any social interaction. They are for the most part solo games that happen to be taking place around other players who are also playing the same solo game simultanously.
It should take month and month to reach maximum level with a character. There shouldn't even be an endgame because lets face it endgame means "The End of the Game" or "Game Over". The game shouldn't just be starting at that point because you should never reach it (ie about the time you are able to finish existing content, a new expansion is coming out). 2 weeks to max level is BS.
I remember Everquest. I played for 2.5 years and never managed to see every zone in that game and my gear was mediocre at best mostly because things were so difficult. You also never quit progressing, even at max level because there was always some Alternate Advancement points to earn that made your character just slightly better. It was with real excitement when I finally managed to level enough to got to Velious for the first time or was actually able to delve deep into a dangerous dungeon for the best loot for the first time.
Also I miss the social experience. You had to group to accomplish anything and that downtime actually forced you to talk and interact with your fellow players. Also the servers were rather small populations so you couldn't be an arsehat if you wanted to be included in groups. You even had to learn to play your character (gasp) or else people didn't want you in groups.
EQ had its issues. It was probably overly harsh with its death penalties and it was definately kind of stupid that you couldn't solo an even level mod (should have been hard but not impossible though less effiicient than grouping), but other than that it was a much better model that current MMOs. The super fast leveling and relying on activites that take place after the game ends needs to go away and go away fast.
So many great responses...
There seems to be a few general themes here. Gamers want more freedom, less linear questing, and the tight knit communities of old. This is not a crazy pie in the sky list by any means.
It's good to see so many gamers are passionate about the genre, it's about time the devs and the investors start listening.
for me there are two things really.
3rd person view and a insistence that combat MUST be prevalent in the game
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Good point which might explain one of my "complaints": Not many new things.
Might this be because at least to me it seems that testing stages aren't used for testing anymore but more for advertising? Maybe to explain that... To stay in your climbing example, why not add the up-down movement in alpha to test if it works without any animation, just the z change and nest-checking mechanic. Then in closed beta add a simple animation, open beta a bit improved one with a sound attached to it and polish before launch. But if it has to be perfect in alpha because it is ment as ad and not a test then the thing is doomed from the start.
My 2nd "complain" would be that I really dont care about characters anymore. I blaim classes for this because the 2 games in which I cared about my chars were Asherons Call and Fallen Earth. Both of them have a skill/char system that lets you pick the skills you want from all the skills in the game.
In games with classes you are stuck with you class skillset and all the "Tanks" have the same, "Healers" all are the same aso. A char isn't what I want but I have to pick the class that comes closest to what I like. So I have to adjust to the char and can't adjust the char to me.
The irony that MMOs today are single player games with an optional multiplayer dimension.
Secondly, difficulty. Now, granted, this is part of the 'single player' issue, but I hark from the Verant style EQ where a single monster, even if you were a higher level, could very well demolish you in a fight. What did this require? Teamwork. As the idea progresses, less and less is actual teamwork required nowadays in the day-to-day experience of many MMOs.
Thirdly, character development. I want to play a character the way I want to. Old school UO is a good example of this done well (although, I'd prefer no cap but simply the skills you don't use will wane overtime).
Meaningful death experiences. In many modern MMOs, you get a little slap on the hand for dying. I'm not sure which game handles this the best, but this type of feeling causes me to play games with Hardcore modes; it makes every once trivial choice now very, very important.
Freedom. I would like several options where I'd like to strengthen my character, and I don't want to be tied down to a string of quests to hold my hand through new terrain. Let me figure out the challenges you've spent years designing without throwing it in my face.
/rant
MMO migrant.