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I could sit down for thirty minutes at the starport, log off, and never feel like my time wasn't wel

24

Comments

  • movindudemovindude santa barbara, CAPosts: 122Member
    Originally posted by Elsabolts
    I agree, Its like crystal clear to me that Sony could take back control of the intire MMO market by just giving EQ1 a new graphics engine. Why they do not see this is beyond me.

     

  • movindudemovindude santa barbara, CAPosts: 122Member
    I agree with this BIG TIME!!!!!   But instead they keep wasting time making crap like EQ Landmark. Problem is these game makers ARE NOT gamers. When Day of Defeat first came out it was a blast but they kept trying to improve the graphics and ending up making the game linear. Nice graphics but boring to play in the end. Allot of the old games had sooo much right with them but just need to give them graphics like AOC and ESO.     -----> EQ1  ESO style FTW !!!! <-----
  • Solar_ProphetSolar_Prophet Columbus, OHPosts: 879Member Uncommon

    Amazing how some people can still look back on what was a very buggy, poorly optimized, and obtusely designed game with such fondness. The only thing that game had going for it was the crafting, and JTL. The glasses aren't just rose tinted, they're pretty much completely opaque!

    Ah well. No harm in it I suppose. We all have something which we look back at fondly, oblivious to the truth of what it really was.

    AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!

  • ReklawReklaw Am.Posts: 6,478Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by movindude
    Originally posted by Elsabolts
    I agree, Its like crystal clear to me that Sony could take back control of the intire MMO market by just giving EQ1 a new graphics engine. Why they do not see this is beyond me.

     

    Well...

     

     

    Wait for it....

     

     

     

    Wait....

     

     

     

     

    Wait........

     

     

     

     

     

    Its.......H1Z1..................................tadaaaaaaa!

    /sarcasm off.

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,463Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by udon
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by VooDoo_Papa
    they didn't make the changes they did to SWG because it was an amazing game pulling sub's left and right. people seriously either refuse to admit this, or were never there to begin with. 

    But your equating "amazing" with "pulling subs left and right".

    There is a difference between being "amazing for a small group of people" and "amazing for a large group of people".

     

    One is one thing and one is the other. It's the dream of developers to hit the center but that doesn't diminish the value of each to its respective group.

    That's true but at the end of the day your measure of amazing only really matters if you own the game and can control it's direction.  It doesn't matter how many people thought SWG pre NGE was "amazing" the people who where in a position to make changes to it didn't agree.  Now this might be because the subs where lower than they thought they should be, they took queues from a different group of people than you or they just didn't like what they had in front of them.  But for the people holding the pocketbooks something was clearly seen as wrong with the game to make them spend so much time and money to revamp the game like they did.

    but it's two different things.

    One is financial viability and the other is whether the game is amazing.

    To a small group of people, the game was amazing. It wasn't financially viable, at least according to the owners. That doesn't take away the "amazing" part to the people who loved it and therefore doesn't diminish their comments on the game.

    So to some the game was amazing, they loved it and they want more. If someone was to come along and make a game that could thrive on a smaller community that was similiar to Star Wars Galaxies then that would be that.

    Voodoo Papa makes the statement that "oh, the game was amazing therefore they closed it". And that statement doesn't tlel the whole story. the game WAS amazing to a small group of people. It just wasn't amazing to enough people.

    Doesn't change the fact that it hung the stars and the moon to a segment of the population.

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,318Member Uncommon
    I found swg to be s horrible boring game.

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaPosts: 8,467Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by flizzer
    Originally posted by The.agG
    If this isn't a post showing the rose-tinted glasses among MMO players, then i don't know what is.

    I have to agree.

     

    The most amazing game of all time cancelled!  There must have been some problems, no?

    Yes the mass internet wave had not yet started and SOE wanted bigger numbers,so they set out to make change.Their change was also influenced by MANY of the players and this happens in every game.The satisfied players don't send emails complaining,they simply play and enjoy,the whiners are the ONLY ones with voice ,so they can send a false image of what the player base wants.

    IMO it proves a shallow developer because you don't make changes to simply get more money.You should spend months laying out the ground work for a game design and stick with it.SOE is a giant they can make a game to cater to every type player so no need to constantly change each and every game out there.

    The reason it cancelled was NOT because of THE greatest game,it was because of the END result game which was NOT the same game after SOE made the changes.Of course it is not the greatest game of all time that is ALWAYS opinionated.However if you dissect games there is always argument for creativity,content,graphics ect ect so it becomes more about factual than just opinion.

    Example tons of modern games have cheap 2d buildings,low end graphics,singular content of running quests with a singular end game to boot.These games are imo very weak games not worth any high rating and definitely not worth my time.Even if you are going to run a simple one dimensional questing game on rails,there is nothing stopping the developer from adding a ton of depth to that area and with lots of side content to cut the boredom,yet that is exactly what they don't  do.


    Samoan Diamond

  • movindudemovindude santa barbara, CAPosts: 122Member
    I liked mob bosses you can possibly solo or kite that dropped a nice item you could sale or keep 1/3 of the time. Hidden chests you would stumble upon. Large raid parties, At night you couldn't see more than 10 feet in front of you it was so dark so exploring new areas was exciting. Zones didn't have the same level mobs and they wandered around so yo had to be careful. You die and it cost you an hours worth of leveling time which also adds for exciting exploration. Classes that were so different they were all needed. Enchanters would give a 2 hour mana buff that would increase your mana regen big time. Rogues could invis and go almost anywhere to drag back corpses after a raid or group wipe. Bards would play tunes that gave certain buffs to the group. Clerics were the only healers. Shaman were the jack of all trades but master of none, good back up healer too. Maybe not reskin that game but use the game mechanics for a new game. Don't make so many level to end game in a week games that hold your hand and cater to just the easy mode players. We will see what state the game world truly is in when EQ Next comes out. Im betting on screwed myself.
  • Viper482Viper482 Somewhere, FLPosts: 999Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by The.agG
    If this isn't a post showing the rose-tinted glasses among MMO players, then i don't know what is.

    It amazes me how people think this, the old MMO's saw WoW's success and tried to emulate their game into it, not realizing the reason people were playing their game and not WoW was because they liked it the way it was. They screwed up the good MMO's to be more like WoW and lost their player base. 

    There are no rose colored glasses. We love the MMO's we played when they were good MMO's and not themepark crap. Sorry this seems to bug you, I am sure you can get over it if you try.

  • MMOExposedMMOExposed lalal land, DCPosts: 6,258Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Beatnik59

    The title line is how I felt when I played Star Wars Galaxies, back a year after launch in 2004.  That game didn't last long, but the game world was so rich, so immersive, that even logging on and observing what went on was fun in itself.

    It wasn't for a lack of things to do.  There was plenty to do in SWG, every day, but even when you felt like doing nothing, you didn't want to log off.

    Stuff would happen all around you.  Gunfights would erupt, people were RPing all over the place in spatial, and the galaxy would be in motion (market activity, entertainers entertaining, pick up groups and loners in far off locales).  This was the kind of game where something interesting could happen at any time, and you didn't want to miss out.  You'd do your own thing, just hanging out, and BOOM...you'd get a text and it was on!

    This kind of interest in staying logged on is rare these days.  The only other time I experienced it was in CoH around Atlas Park and Pocket D.  And I don't know if it was because the players were different, the games were designed differently, or that the environments were more conducive to staying logged on.

    But in today's games, I don't feel the same vibe.  If I'm not doing something, there seems to be no reason to stay logged on just to "hang out"...these are not games which encourage you to hang out.  They encourage you to keep on grinding or questing or acting in some way to exhaustion and log out.  It is as if the games are saying, "if you ain't mashing buttons in combat, you shouldn't be here."  But what if I don't want to mash buttons in combat all the time?  Sometimes I feel like that and I want something interesting to experience in the game without it all having to rely on me navigating a life and death struggle every second.  Is it wrong to want that in an MMO?

    But that's not the game's fault, that's the community fault that they don't do those things.

    image

  • MMOExposedMMOExposed lalal land, DCPosts: 6,258Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Wizardry
    Originally posted by flizzer
    Originally posted by The.agG
    If this isn't a post showing the rose-tinted glasses among MMO players, then i don't know what is.

    I have to agree.

     

    The most amazing game of all time cancelled!  There must have been some problems, no?

    Yes the mass internet wave had not yet started and SOE wanted bigger numbers,so they set out to make change.Their change was also influenced by MANY of the players and this happens in every game.The satisfied players don't send emails complaining,they simply play and enjoy,the whiners are the ONLY ones with voice ,so they can send a false image of what the player base wants.

    IMO it proves a shallow developer because you don't make changes to simply get more money.You should spend months laying out the ground work for a game design and stick with it.SOE is a giant they can make a game to cater to every type player so no need to constantly change each and every game out there.

    The reason it cancelled was NOT because of THE greatest game,it was because of the END result game which was NOT the same game after SOE made the changes.Of course it is not the greatest game of all time that is ALWAYS opinionated.However if you dissect games there is always argument for creativity,content,graphics ect ect so it becomes more about factual than just opinion.

    Example tons of modern games have cheap 2d buildings,low end graphics,singular content of running quests with a singular end game to boot.These games are imo very weak games not worth any high rating and definitely not worth my time.Even if you are going to run a simple one dimensional questing game on rails,there is nothing stopping the developer from adding a ton of depth to that area and with lots of side content to cut the boredom,yet that is exactly what they don't  do.

    Okay let's play Devils Advocate here. GW2, SWTOR, TESO, TERA, Age of Conan, Warhammer.

    How would these game's success story change had the developers not listen to the complaints these games had over the years?

    and how would their outcome be different had the developers listen only to the fanboism giving praise?

     

    image

  • BraindomeBraindome Posts: 769Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Elsabolts
    I agree, Its like crystal clear to me that Sony could take back control of the intire MMO market by just giving EQ1 a new graphics engine. Why they do not see this is beyond me.

    So simple and so true.

  • waynejr2waynejr2 West Toluca Lake, CAPosts: 4,481Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

    I found swg to be s horrible boring game.

     

    I am with you on that. The had to make changes. People were leaving.
  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,681Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Dibdabs
    Oh god, is it time for another tedious wallow in the old SWG pool of nostalgia again?  It only seems like five minutes since the last one.

    SWG is the Rocky Marciano of MMO discussions. 

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • EvelknievelEvelknievel Ehrenfeld, PAPosts: 2,977Member
    Originally posted by waynejr2
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
    I found swg to be s horrible boring game.

     

    I am with you on that. The had to make changes. People were leaving.

     

    1. SWG released 2003

    2. WoW released 2004 (WoW a phenom of subscribers)

    3. SWG Combat Upgrade 2005 (Mixed emotions of player base about CU)

    4. SWG NGE Upgrade 2005 (Let's make our game more like WoW and grab more subscribers, let's make it more Star Warsy with iconic professions) (Mass exodus of veterans and what's left of the player base stay due to their love of Star Wars).

    5. SWG cancelled 2011 for a game called SWtOR that would be Star Wars version of WoW.

    That's about it.

    edited for this video -> http://drennor.com/media.php?id=295

     

     

  • sethman75sethman75 the gongPosts: 212Member Uncommon

    OP, what you described is the worst possible thing i could think of doing with my meagre gaming time.

    Games are for entertainment, they are not life simulators.

     

     

  • ReklawReklaw Am.Posts: 6,478Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by sethman75

    OP, what you described is the worst possible thing i could think of doing with my meagre gaming time.

    Games are for entertainment, they are not life simulators.

     

     

    That's the thing why this genre has shifted into more "game" because the majority these day's has a very limited scope as in unable to understand how they might have fun in a more virtual world.

     

  • Mr.KujoMr.Kujo SwinoujsciePosts: 383Member
    Originally posted by Reklaw
    Originally posted by sethman75

    OP, what you described is the worst possible thing i could think of doing with my meagre gaming time.

    Games are for entertainment, they are not life simulators.

    That's the thing why this genre has shifted into more "game" because the majority these day's has a very limited scope as in unable to understand how they might have fun in a more virtual world.

     

    It's more because the industry isn't only for basement dwellers anymore. More regular people started to play, people that already have rich life outside of gaming, and just want to play a game for entertainment, not to compensate for nothing to do outside.

    Besides games were always games. SWG and other few like that were only exceptions, that were liked by different people, not a holy grail for entire industry. Most gamers didn't even bother trying them out. It was for specific tastes. Suddenly everyone is glorifying them like it was the best thing that ever happened.

    It really feels like that few people that really played those games and liked it, are the dominant speakers in this forum.

    All I remember about vanilla SWG is a lot of complaint and small player base. Suddenly when it is not here to be checked out, everyone can say whatever they want and no one will be able to verify. It is convenient.

  • FoomerangFoomerang Portland, ORPosts: 5,565Member Uncommon

    If you can no longer sit still for 30 minutes and just look at shit or talk to people, do you really think its the games that have changed? I do that in every mmo I play. Maybe you are too swayed by the shiny content being dangled in front of your face and you blame the game for that? Get some feckin willpower. Learn to chill the hell out and just start talking to people again. Or just watch whats going on. Read what people are saying. Chime in. Or lend a hand when someone asks.

    Its amazing people blame video games for their own inability to exercise self control.

    Every day I log on and watch people scamper around trying to finish their dailies or get their marks. Trying to maximize their precious playtime. You ever just...you know...not do that? Try it. Log on and just hang out where theres a lot of people. Or just go somewhere and do something that might be helpful to someone else. They will show up, I promise. Somebody somewhere will talk to you, or buy your low level crap, or say hi.

    I think sometimes veteran mmo players dream of the old games because they liked how They Themselves Were Back Then. Its sad now because they makes threads like this, insisting its not them that have changed. You're just the same wide eyed, super positive, full of wonder noob like when you first played that old mmo? Bullshit. If that were true, you wouldnt be here shitting on everything like some jaded old crotchety gamer blaming everything around them but themselves.

    New people try new mmos every day. And they are just as wide eyed and full of amazement as you once were. My advice: seek them out in-game like they are a precious rare resource and talk to them. Help them out. Show them the ropes. Take on a monster. Or a dungeon. Maybe some of their magic will rub off on you and you'll remember why you loved these games so much. And then you might realize that what your're looking for in these games has always been right in front of you.

  • ReklawReklaw Am.Posts: 6,478Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Mr.Kujo
    Originally posted by Reklaw
    Originally posted by sethman75

    OP, what you described is the worst possible thing i could think of doing with my meagre gaming time.

    Games are for entertainment, they are not life simulators.

    That's the thing why this genre has shifted into more "game" because the majority these day's has a very limited scope as in unable to understand how they might have fun in a more virtual world.

     

    It's more because the industry isn't only for basement dwellers anymore. More regular people started to play, people that already have rich life outside of gaming, and just want to play a game for entertainment, not to compensate for nothing to do outside.

    Besides games were always games. SWG and other few like that were only exceptions, that were liked by different people, not a holy grail for entire industry. Most gamers didn't even bother trying them out. It was for specific tastes. Suddenly everyone is glorifying them like it was the best thing that ever happened.

    It really feels like that few people that really played those games and liked it, are the dominant speakers in this forum.

    All I remember about vanilla SWG is a lot of complaint and small player base. Suddenly when it is not here to be checked out, everyone can say whatever they want and no one will be able to verify. It is convenient.

    Yup that's the common response of people who simply have a limited scope. No worries my life is great outside of gaming.

    But my main hobby is games and I happen to like different type of games. It has absolutely nothing to do with compensating anything. I keep thinking gamers are openminded, yet we keep seeing responses like the one above me.

    But don't worries I don't play the blame game. I have fun in MMORPG's even themeparks, found my own niche.

  • sethman75sethman75 the gongPosts: 212Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Reklaw
    Originally posted by Mr.Kujo
    Originally posted by Reklaw
    Originally posted by sethman75

    OP, what you described is the worst possible thing i could think of doing with my meagre gaming time.

    Games are for entertainment, they are not life simulators.

    That's the thing why this genre has shifted into more "game" because the majority these day's has a very limited scope as in unable to understand how they might have fun in a more virtual world.

     

    It's more because the industry isn't only for basement dwellers anymore. More regular people started to play, people that already have rich life outside of gaming, and just want to play a game for entertainment, not to compensate for nothing to do outside.

    Besides games were always games. SWG and other few like that were only exceptions, that were liked by different people, not a holy grail for entire industry. Most gamers didn't even bother trying them out. It was for specific tastes. Suddenly everyone is glorifying them like it was the best thing that ever happened.

    It really feels like that few people that really played those games and liked it, are the dominant speakers in this forum.

    All I remember about vanilla SWG is a lot of complaint and small player base. Suddenly when it is not here to be checked out, everyone can say whatever they want and no one will be able to verify. It is convenient.

    Yup that's the common response of people who simply have a limited scope. No worries my life is great outside of gaming.

    But my main hobby is games and I happen to like different type of games. It has absolutely nothing to do with compensating anything. I keep thinking gamers are openminded, yet we keep seeing responses like the one above me.

    But don't worries I don't play the blame game. I have fun in MMORPG's even themeparks, found my own niche.

    I think you missed the point.

    It's cool that you can have fun achieving nothing in game but people like me like to progress a little each day when they log on. I stop and smell the roses as well(which explains my massive screenshot library) but the primary focus is to progress and actually achieve something each time i play.

    Progression and the ability to slowly develop my character into something powerful is the only reason i play MMORPG's.

    The day that stops is the day the genre dies.

    Also note that every AAA game over the past 10 years has focused on that and companies that put massive amounts of due diligence before pumping hundreds of millions of dollars into development know what gamers want to do.

  • DrannyDranny BarnsleyPosts: 276Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by IMPYRE
    Originally posted by waynejr2
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
    I found swg to be s horrible boring game.

     

    I am with you on that. The had to make changes. People were leaving.

     

    1. SWG released 2003

    2. WoW released 2004 (WoW a phenom of subscribers)

    3. SWG Combat Upgrade 2005 (Mixed emotions of player base about CU)

    4. SWG NGE Upgrade 2005 (Let's make our game more like WoW and grab more subscribers, let's make it more Star Warsy with iconic professions) (Mass exodus of veterans and what's left of the player base stay due to their love of Star Wars).

    5. SWG cancelled 2011 for a game called SWtOR that would be Star Wars version of WoW.

    That's about it.

    edited for this video -> http://drennor.com/media.php?id=295

     

     

    The CU was the worst thing to happen to SWG they lost so many subs when it hit, I remember all the protests about the CU and still they went live with it. Guess they didn't want to listen to the players anymore and just wanted to be like wow.

  • VelocinoxVelocinox Old Folks Home, CAPosts: 812Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Orious

    Originally posted by flizzer

    Originally posted by The.agG If this isn't a post showing the rose-tinted glasses among MMO players, then i don't know what is.
    I have to agree.   The most amazing game of all time cancelled!  There must have been some problems, no?
    It was cancelled after they went from a unique/innovative gameplay strategy to be more in-line with WoW/modern strategies. That's when most people quit.
    And what prompted them to change it? because it was successful and had plenty of players?

     

    Nope. It was a failure and they were trying to attract more customers. If the world wanted SWG, they would have played SWG.

     

    Can't keep the lights on with 20K subs.

     


    Originally posted by Dranny The CU was the worst thing to happen to SWG they lost so many subs when it hit, I remember all the protests about the CU and still they went live with it. Guess they didn't want to listen to the players anymore and just wanted to be like wow.

    You don't even remember it right. The CU didn't lose players. It only changed combat, and even then only a bit and was mostly well received after the fear of change died down. it was the NGE that changed everything and lost the last of the few subs it had.
     

    'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.


    When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.


    No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.


    How to become a millionaire:
    Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.

  • Mr.KujoMr.Kujo SwinoujsciePosts: 383Member

    Originally posted by Reklaw

    Yup that's the common response of people who simply have a limited scope. No worries my life is great outside of gaming.

    But my main hobby is games and I happen to like different type of games. It has absolutely nothing to do with compensating anything. I keep thinking gamers are openminded, yet we keep seeing responses like the one above me.

    But don't worries I don't play the blame game. I have fun in MMORPG's even themeparks, found my own niche.

     

    You get defensive, like it hit the spot. If you felt secure about your life, you wouldn't comment that part at all.

    You seem to be very arogant, since you think of yourself as someone more open minded and better, for having different tastes than other people. I don't want to smell flowers and catch fish in my game, I guess that makes me narrowminded then...

    I don't understand why would we need to change our genre for people that want virtual reality. Make MMOVR forum, and leave people that play games alone...

  • DrannyDranny BarnsleyPosts: 276Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Velocinox

     


    Originally posted by Orious

    Originally posted by flizzer

    Originally posted by The.agG If this isn't a post showing the rose-tinted glasses among MMO players, then i don't know what is.
    I have to agree.   The most amazing game of all time cancelled!  There must have been some problems, no?
    It was cancelled after they went from a unique/innovative gameplay strategy to be more in-line with WoW/modern strategies. That's when most people quit.
    And what prompted them to change it? because it was successful and had plenty of players?

     

     

    Nope. It was a failure and they were trying to attract more customers. If the world wanted SWG, they would have played SWG.

     

    Can't keep the lights on with 20K subs.

     


    Originally posted by Dranny The CU was the worst thing to happen to SWG they lost so many subs when it hit, I remember all the protests about the CU and still they went live with it. Guess they didn't want to listen to the players anymore and just wanted to be like wow.

     

    You don't even remember it right. The CU didn't lose players. It only changed combat, and even then only a bit and was mostly well received after the fear of change died down. it was the NGE that changed everything and lost the last of the few subs it had.
     

    Really so I must have been dreaming when the CU hit then, seeing all the players protesting outside Cnet Thread and other places. watching prime locations that used to be the place to have your house now deserted. sure I must have got it all wrong. I didn't play much longer after the CU hit as my guild and most of my friends quit playing.

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