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EVE online is losing players, many lost in past year

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  • MalcanisMalcanis LondonPosts: 3,191Member
    Originally posted by Gdemami

    Incarna in 2011 was their last successful expansion, since then the game is struggling to increase the player base or just add any (expanding) content at all.

    The 500k mark is just a marketing gimmick as they added the numbers from chinese re-release.

    Imo, the issues with development direction/management go long back to 2008(icelandic crisis and Quantum Rise failed expansion).

    Current EVE is a very sad reminiscent of it's former glory...it was a blast, alas nothing lasts forever.

    EDIT: I am in no way agreeing with OP, the numbers are off and ridiculous.

    The game isn't dying, it is just a sailing ship without a captain...or a crew...

     

    I think you may be the only person ever to describe Incarna as a "successful" expansion, even as a troll. Incarna was an utter disaster in every respect.

    As the OP says, CCP haven't released figures, but it's pretty obvious that numbers are down.  By how much is guesswork; historically speaking, the APC and the number of subscriptions have not been closely linked.  However in the past, the PLEX system has helped to buffer the effects of player discontent; a lot of players who weren't logging in would convert ISK into game time and keep the skillqueue ticking over against the chance that they'd return.  Now that PLEX are over 800M ISK each, that's an expensive proposition.  Anecdotally, a lot of the people I know in EVE are trimming down their accounts because of PLEX prices.

    I think it's helpful to distinguish EVE as a piece of software from EVE as a dynamic player community.  On the software side, EVE is the best it has ever been: CCP has made a giant effort to refactor and debug many of the game's features.  However, the features that they have fixed are not the ones that most urgently needed fixing.  That choice has been dictated by development constraints rather than game design considerations, and I have considerable sympathy for the EVE team for the unpleasant choices they've had to make for the long term good of the game.

    On the community side, things aren't so good.  I can't speak for hi-sec, but I can confirm that nullsec is utterly stagnant.  There's just not much to log in for while the "Cold War" between the CFC and N3PL drags on, and I have let my subs lapse and many others have done the same until things change there.  I know for a fact that CCP are aware of this situation, and CCP Seagull confirmed yesterday that there will be a change to sov mechanics this year.  I very much hope that, whatever this change is, it provides a powerful incentive to break up the mega coalitions and drives a more diverse political map.  If it does, I'll happily start giving CCP my money again.

    Give me liberty or give me lasers

  • MalcanisMalcanis LondonPosts: 3,191Member
    Originally posted by Loktofeit

    The OP is a great example of one of the reasons why MMO devs don't give out sub numbers. As soon as they stop giving them out the assumption is that the game is losing players. "Many lost in past year." I must've missed that memo. ;)

     

    The PCU records were often the result of multiple events at the same time in EVE, and were in no way indicative of peak averages at the time. If they were, the records probably wouldn't have been such a big deal. I think several of the records were on days when there was a tournament going on at the same time as a lot of activity in game. PCU records were always the result of player activity. CCP "aren't even trying to break it" because, to the best of my knowledge, they never did.

     

    Anyway, it's July. EVE players are always less active in July. They're probably on a beach somewhere with their families or BBQing in their backyard. My educated guess is that the same is true for most MMOs. 

     

    Whatever the case, welcome back from your 3.5-year hiatus.

     

     

    Oh come on man, be real.  APC numbers are down to the level of the Summer of Rage.  And there are other factors as well.  You know as well as I do that the outlook for the next 9-12 months is pretty grim.  I'm prepared to believe that Seagull's plan will work and that people will return but to try and deny that player numbers are through the floor is pretty insulting.  If CCP want people to stop making wrong assumptions about subscription numbers, they always have the option of returning to their long-standing policy of publishing those sub numbers.  If there's nothing to hide, then why not?

    If nothing else gave the game away, then the announcement of the CSM9 election results did.  For the first time ever, CCP did not announce what percentage of the players voted, which in the past has been considered an important statistic.  Why?  I think you know perfectly well why; we certainly do.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not on any kind of "grrr CCP" kick.  I know perfectly well that the dev teams are working hard, I know that there's a valid and sensible development plan, I agree it makes sense.  But have the courage to admit that right now, there's an issue.

    Give me liberty or give me lasers

  • CecropiaCecropia Posts: 3,472Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Loktofeit

    ...Anyway, it's July. EVE players are always less active in July. They're probably on a beach somewhere with their families or BBQing in their backyard. My educated guess is that the same is true for most MMOs...

    Indeed. 

    I'm at the point now where I expect to see this thread pop up every year around this time. Let's not even get into how bad a winter North Americans suffered this year. People game less when the warm weather of summer arrives. D'uh.

    "Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb

  • anegessseo888anegessseo888 new york, NYPosts: 7Member
    EVE is an order game, losing subs is very normal, the same thing is happening to World of Warcraft. EVE should offer updates more frequently, its a good way to improve this situation.

    Nothing is permanent in this wicked world, not even our troubles.buy wow gold

  • Agent_JosephAgent_Joseph SarajevoPosts: 1,070Member Uncommon

    only EVE is real MMO...but I am impressive with TSW

  • mark2123mark2123 LondonPosts: 308Member Uncommon

    I quit for good and here's why.

    The game has matured to the point that everyone who is going to own somewhere already owns it and no-one trusts anyone new to join a corp where it matters and be allowed to do anything.  So, you either create a corp that will never make anything in the world, you join a corp that does trust you and give you some rights to do things, but they won't ever be important and they know it, or you manage to get into an decent established corp and end up being a grunt that does work for the bosses.

    Adding to that, the griefing, cheating and nastiness of the players associated with some of the big corps, e.g. Goongimps, and there really is no reason to play because the game is too far gone in terms of power-distributions i.e. the lunatics now run the asylum.

    If they created a new server that was like a reset, I'd go and play it because there genuinely would be a chance to do something.

  • theAsnatheAsna AsnatownPosts: 321Member

     

    No one can be forced to play a game. People will always come and try a game. Eventually they will pause or stop. The question is:

     

        How many people do you really need to play with as it's unlikely that you'll play with every single player out there?

     

    Play the game because you like playing it. Join a corporation if you want to achieve something. If you join a big corporation you'll have to spend quite some time working your way up the ranks. Join a smaller corporation and try to pull off something by rallying together its other members. You can't simply sit there and expect to get things shoved up your backside.

  • PurutzilPurutzil East Stroudsburg, PAPosts: 2,926Member Uncommon

    Its simple: The main reason is its old. Some might ask then "Why does wow continue to boast a large player pool (though dropping steadily)" I think the issue is Eve is pretty much a 'be established in an established organization or go no where' type game, all at fault of it being a sandbox game as it is. This makes it MUCH harder for new players to get into it.

     

    WoW tends to get a steady stream of new people trying it since "it was the biggest thing" so long ago and with friends peeking back in for nostaligia, I'm more then certain that their claim of subs being so high, a lot higher amount of those numbers are actually different people at different times jumping in and out rather then a steady number of the same players. Eve doesn't have that to its benefit as it doesn't baby' people in to be pretty much on par within an extremely short time. Granted its a part of why wow has players sub and unsub rather quickly from the game (another big issue), its still something Eve doesn't have to its advantage. The two act in extremes of one another, with Eve's model happening to be the worst of the two in keeping its numbers steady.

    I'll admit, I do feel Eve isn't a very good game, in fact its quite a lack luster game. Still it is one people gravitate seeking a Space focused experience that unfortunately has been neglected.  With more games like Star Citizen seeking to make more games available in the genre, I'm certain many just don't feel the need to jump back in Eve. I do feel Eve has its place (if there is one thing that is strong, its the element of trade and economy that I feel can be praised to a good extent) but unfortunately its age hurts its further. I don't think it will completely fall apart anytime soon, but its likely its numbers will thin until only the most hardcore of those who enjoy its economy system will be around. 

  • DocBrodyDocBrody EldridgePosts: 1,820Member

    the name of the reason is the one and only STAR CITIZEN

     

    but if CCP get their act together, finally do something with avatars and cockpits, they can get easily back their players

    like Valkyrie but within Eve client

     

    I´d resub for a cool WIS expansion in a heartbeat

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,680Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Purutzil

    I think the issue is Eve is pretty much a 'be established in an established organization or go no where' type game, all at fault of it being a sandbox game as it is. This makes it MUCH harder for new players to get into it.

     

    RvB, Brave Newbies, Redemption Road, Dreddit... 

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • jpnzjpnz SydneyPosts: 3,529Member
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by Purutzil

    I think the issue is Eve is pretty much a 'be established in an established organization or go no where' type game, all at fault of it being a sandbox game as it is. This makes it MUCH harder for new players to get into it.

     

    RvB, Brave Newbies, Redemption Road, Dreddit... 

    Brave Newbies and Dreddit were created on the benevolent feelings of N3 and CFC.

    We saw what happened when Dreddit decided to 'branch out' and attack their creators though; get kicked out of 0.0 and die (well, lose 90% of its members and slum out in Low-Sec).

    Heck, even N3 admitted BNI only exists to 'provide content' ie. Farm kills.

    Not familiar with Redemption Road; are they 0.0?

    RvB might as well be a 'player created BG in WoW' with its enforced 'no X type of ship allowed' playstyle.

    Gdemami -
    Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  • KrematoryKrematory TVNPosts: 542Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DocBrody

    but if CCP get their act together, finally do something with avatars and cockpits, they can get easily back their players

    Fortunately, this will never happen. They know better than that.

    "EVE is likely the best MMORPG that you've never really understood or played" - Kyleran

  • RylahRylah Tribal VillagePosts: 193Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jpnz

    Brave Newbies and Dreddit were created on the benevolent feelings of N3 and CFC.

    We saw what happened when Dreddit decided to 'branch out' and attack their creators though; get kicked out of 0.0 and die (well, lose 90% of its members and slum out in Low-Sec).

    Heck, even N3 admitted BNI only exists to 'provide content' ie. Farm kills.

    Not familiar with Redemption Road; are they 0.0?

    RvB might as well be a 'player created BG in WoW' with its enforced 'no X type of ship allowed' playstyle.

    Yeah. There are lots of well organised and noob friendly corps and alliances. Reducing gameplay to 0.0 theatrical politics from day one is not a good start for a long term gameplay. And I am also not sure that being a zerg drone stuffed with cheap ships to "blow shit up" is the best way to learn all the ins and outs of EvE. But that might be only me.

     

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,680Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Rylah

    Yeah. There are lots of well organised and noob friendly corps and alliances. 

    Agreed. Here is a link to quite a few of them. 

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • LacedOpiumLacedOpium Posts: 1,013Member Uncommon

     

    Its an Open World PVP game.  How many successful OWPVP games can you name?  The big news is not that its dying.  The big news is that it took so long.

  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,870Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Malcanis

    I think you may be the only person ever to describe Incarna as a "successful" expansion

    Ups, my bad. I meant Incrusion expansion.

    Incarna delivered underwhelming 3rd person experience and it was released with a lot of technical issues. It was a mess, completely mismanaged.

  • ZeymereZeymere Somewhere, VAPosts: 203Member Uncommon

    All I can say is that I restarted eve again on the free 21 day trial and I am having a blast.

     

    Z.

  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,870Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Malcanis

    CCP Seagull confirmed yesterday that there will be a change to sov mechanics this year.  I very much hope that, whatever this change is, it provides a powerful incentive to break up the mega coalitions and drives a more diverse political map. 

    That has nothing to do with game mechanics.

  • VaselVasel ausin, TXPosts: 90Member Uncommon

    Eve is a great game. its sad they are losing players. I wonder why that is? I cant say what i really think or i get a warning for trolling. If your familiar with the game you know why its losing players.

     

  • MothanosMothanos ArnhemPosts: 1,860Member Uncommon

    I used to have 6 account 4 of wich i payed with isk for plex.
    Today i have 3 accounts active and soon none at all.

    Null sec stagnation lack of new contend added to the game (lol ghost sites) and increased plex prices up to 800mill is eating away tons of players who not only get bored but also doesnt want to spend these absurd ammount of isk for 1 plex for their alt account/s.

    The lackluster expansion or rebalance expansions with limited new and exciting elements is making Eve realy realy hard to enjoy.

    Nullsec / Wormholes / Faction Warfare / Sov mechanics they all need tons and tons of work.
    Yet CCP keeps funding these flop games like WoD / Dust / Phoenix with Eve cashcow money and doesnt give much back to their core eve players.

    Eve is in a sad state right now.
    It shall not die anytime soon, and 1 solid expansions makes people resub faster then the speed of light.
    But CCP realy needs to get their shit together and start making AWESOME expansions.

  • DeddmeatDeddmeat StanwellPosts: 358Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Horusra
    I do not know anyone that talks about the great PvE in Eve.

    Probably because everyone's too busy trying to correct stupid 'EVE is anti newbie, only PVP' posts

    image

  • crasset15crasset15 TallinnPosts: 183Member

    This game hasn't progressed as much as expected in the amount of time it has been out. What it comes down to is basically it's getting stale and people just move on.

    Okay so they started as a game where you fly with spaceships, allright cool, but why do you have to keep beating that same dead horse for 10 years?

    For me personally, this is what I would expect from a space game that has been out so long:

    - direct input flying with WASD similar to a plane, instead of point and click.

    - less warp gating, more direct interaction with environment. The current game feels like I'm a spectator, not a player.

    - the ability to travel to planets and explore (a small segment of) them on foot.

  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,870Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by crasset15
    This game hasn't progressed as much as expected in the amount of time it has been out. What it comes down to is basically it's getting stale and people just move on.Okay so they started as a game where you fly with spaceships, allright cool, but why do you have to keep beating that same dead horse for 10 years?For me personally, this is what I would expect from a space game that has been out so long:- direct input flying with WASD similar to a plane, instead of point and click.- less warp gating, more direct interaction with environment. The current game feels like I'm a spectator, not a player.- the ability to travel to planets and explore (a small segment of) them on foot.

    You just want to play entirely different type of game...not EVE's fault tho.

  • MalcanisMalcanis LondonPosts: 3,191Member
    Star citizens won't see their game for AT LEAST a year, and it'll probably be longer than that.

    Elite and No Mans Star, now - those are real competition

    Give me liberty or give me lasers

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