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There is only one simple reason why the MMORPG genre is at this state today.

KopogeroKopogero Shevat, ONPosts: 898Member Uncommon

And ironicly after my epic quest from 2001 with MMORPG's I'm back to my first...Anyways, these are some of the top reasons people think why we are in this state.

#1 Saturated market, too many options, spread players across, bigger competition, etc, etc..

#2 Too many programs/ways today to cheat/exploit/bot/multibox/spam etc in a game...

#3 Was recently reported that there are around 24.5 mil MMORPG subscribers in the WORLD.

#4 Private sector. Devlopers can't develop what they want, depend on publishers, etc..Too many things to spend # on from marketing, CEO's, and so forth.

#5 Becoming more expensive to build em, programmers, graphic artists, writers, voice actors and so forth.

#6 Bugs, bugs, bugs which are product of mainly of rushed, untested products or games developed by amateur/cheaper programmers.

#7 Bad directions, choices, ideas by the lead designers.

#8 Too many players out there seem to enjoy playing cheaply, repetitive games over MMORPG's like RTS, FPS, MOBAs, card games and so forth...

#9 Forums like these keep exposing the flaws and trashing games that are out within first month, alerting and notifying others why the game won't last.

#10 Bad communities...

 

I can go forth and forth and forth on the MANY reasons many would think why MMORPG's are at the current stage today, but all those reasons above are innacurate. There is one simple reason why today's MMORPG's aren't something truly better and greater than MMORPG's that were launched decades today and that is...

Those in charge of developing MMORPG's do not have the skills, love, experience, drive to work together and develop one EPIC MMORPG that when created it will make the MMORPG P2P market become 125 mil not 24 mil. People today do not involve themself with MMORPG's because they believe that LIFE has better options and value/entertainment. It's NOBODY's elses fault but yourself if you fail to deliver a successful product that can create a market and lure people to spend $ on it.

So for the last time, I'm tired of seeing all these threads, with so many reasons/assumptions why we have the quality of MMORPG's today after all these years. If people are happy enough with their lives as they are to not create that epic MMORPG then good for them. If people have the $ and are not as desperate to create it, again good for them. And if us the gamers can find ways to entertain ourselves in these dire times for this genre good for us.

I for once have not spent a DIME in the last 3 years, 6 months and 1 week on any new MMORPG that came and I wasn't the reason, I wasn't burnt out or anything. I simply did not find a product I see myself playing and I moved along as many out there.

The only way this genre will go forward is us the gamers are resilient and cautious with our $. It's our only way we can vote and when people don't pay for MMORPG's it doesn't mean there is no MARKET out there. It simply means there has been no publisher/developer out there capable to create/capture a market.

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Comments

  • FoobarxFoobarx Poway, CAPosts: 451Member

    The games don't cost more to build... the cost of inflation has gone up.  You're comparing 2014 dollars with 2004 dollars.  Not even a valid reason because no business can stay in business if the cost of doing business exceeds the return... so in short, it doesn't cost more to build them.  That's a farce. 

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,674Member Uncommon
    In your opinion, what is the current state of the MMORPG genre? That wasn't really explained in your post. 

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • UO4everUO4ever LeicesterPosts: 38Member

     

    +1

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 20,008Member Uncommon
    If you haven't played a MMO for years, why do you still post here?

    Or are you firmly in the F2P camp? If the latter then you aren't being selective, you are being cheap.

    And if you aren't playing any MMOs, you are probably at the wrong site.

    There are no single or simple reasons for the state of the genre, and no simple solutions.

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • FoomerangFoomerang Portland, ORPosts: 5,565Member Uncommon

    One simple reason.....and then your brain exploded.

  • FoobarxFoobarx Poway, CAPosts: 451Member
    He basically called the developers all incompetent baboons that move like they have two clubbed feet... need to say it with the voice to get the full effect...
  • XiaokiXiaoki White Pigeon, MIPosts: 2,609Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Foobarx
    The games don't cost more to build... the cost of inflation has gone up.  You're comparing 2014 dollars with 2004 dollars.  Not even a valid reason because no business can stay in business if the cost of doing business exceeds the return... so in short, it doesn't cost more to build them.  That's a farce. 
    Inflation? Really?!

    Not even close to being true. Off by a country mile.


    Inflation from 1999 to 2014 has risen by about 43%. So, $1 in 1999 is worth $1.43 today.

    However, MMO development costs have gone from around $5 million to over $100 million.

  • Dexter2010Dexter2010 Beverly Hills, CAPosts: 244Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kopogero

    And ironicly after my epic quest from 2001 with MMORPG's I'm back to my first...Anyways, these are some of the top reasons people think why we are in this state.

    #1 Saturated market, too many options, spread players across, bigger competition, etc, etc..

    #2 Too many programs/ways today to cheat/exploit/bot/multibox/spam etc in a game...

    #3 Was recently reported that there are around 24.5 mil MMORPG subscribers in the WORLD.

    #4 Private sector. Devlopers can't develop what they want, depend on publishers, etc..Too many things to spend # on from marketing, CEO's, and so forth.

    #5 Becoming more expensive to build em, programmers, graphic artists, writers, voice actors and so forth.

    #6 Bugs, bugs, bugs which are product of mainly of rushed, untested products or games developed by amateur/cheaper programmers.

    #7 Bad directions, choices, ideas by the lead designers.

    #8 Too many players out there seem to enjoy playing cheaply, repetitive games over MMORPG's like RTS, FPS, MOBAs, card games and so forth...

    #9 Forums like these keep exposing the flaws and trashing games that are out within first month, alerting and notifying others why the game won't last.

    #10 Bad communities...

     

    I can go forth and forth and forth on the MANY reasons many would think why MMORPG's are at the current stage today, but all those reasons above are innacurate. There is one simple reason why today's MMORPG's aren't something truly better and greater than MMORPG's that were launched decades today and that is...

    Those in charge of developing MMORPG's do not have the skills, love, experience, drive to work together and develop one EPIC MMORPG that when created it will make the MMORPG P2P market become 125 mil not 24 mil. People today do not involve themself with MMORPG's because they believe that LIFE has better options and value/entertainment. It's NOBODY's elses fault but yourself if you fail to deliver a successful product that can create a market and lure people to spend $ on it.

    So for the last time, I'm tired of seeing all these threads, with so many reasons/assumptions why we have the quality of MMORPG's today after all these years. If people are happy enough with their lives as they are to not create that epic MMORPG then good for them. If people have the $ and are not as desperate to create it, again good for them. And if us the gamers can find ways to entertain ourselves in these dire times for this genre good for us.

    I for once have not spent a DIME in the last 3 years, 6 months and 1 week on any new MMORPG that came and I wasn't the reason, I wasn't burnt out or anything. I simply did not find a product I see myself playing and I moved along as many out there.

    The only way this genre will go forward is us the gamers are resilient and cautious with our $. It's our only way we can vote and when people don't pay for MMORPG's it doesn't mean there is no MARKET out there. It simply means there has been no publisher/developer out there capable to create/capture a market.

    Your title boldly declares 1 reason yet you list so many.

  • KaladinKaladin Here, COPosts: 468Member
    Originally posted by Kopogero

    I for once have not spent a DIME in the last 3 years, 6 months and 1 week on any new MMORPG that came and I wasn't the reason, I wasn't burnt out or anything. I simply did not find a product I see myself playing and I moved along as many out there.

    I don't think you are quite in the majority you think you are.

    I can fly higher than an aeroplane.
    And I have the voice of a thousand hurricanes.
    Hurt - Wars

  • FoobarxFoobarx Poway, CAPosts: 451Member
    Originally posted by Xiaoki

     


    Originally posted by Foobarx
    The games don't cost more to build... the cost of inflation has gone up.  You're comparing 2014 dollars with 2004 dollars.  Not even a valid reason because no business can stay in business if the cost of doing business exceeds the return... so in short, it doesn't cost more to build them.  That's a farce. 

    Inflation? Really?!

     

    Not even close to being true. Off by a country mile.


    Inflation from 1999 to 2014 has risen by about 43%. So, $1 in 1999 is worth $1.43 today.

    However, MMO development costs have gone from around $5 million to over $100 million.

    You're understanding of inflation is flat out wrong.  What is the price of gas today?  What is the cost of a car?  What is the cost of rent?  Taxes?  Inflation affects everything from salaries to general goods.  The fact that people expect to paid x amount of money to do the same job that they did only a year ago for y is why costs go up.  And that cost varies depending on where in the world you are.  It does not cost more to produce these games like you think it does... for every dollar they spend they get a great deal more in return... so profits have gone up along with the costs.  They don't tell you how much indecent profit they made based on actual cost.  

  • AmjocoAmjoco Layton, UTPosts: 4,782Member Uncommon

    I agree totally with number one! 

    It's to bad that game companies can't all get together and develop one intertwined game. GW2 toons can play on WoW, Rift in ESO,  and so on! :) Just a fantasy about fantasy games of mine!

    Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  • alterfenixalterfenix Bielsko-BialaPosts: 343Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kopogero

    And ironicly after my epic quest from 2001 with MMORPG's I'm back to my first...Anyways, these are some of the top reasons people think why we are in this state.

    #1 Saturated market, too many options, spread players across, bigger competition, etc, etc..

    Partially I agree with that. But the problem is not too many games available. problem is too many games that look same or similar are available. Just see any WoW/EQ clone discussions (where the truth is that with an exception of a few games out there most of the time it is a good comparison). If there was more differentiating then this could be a totally different story,

    #2 Too many programs/ways today to cheat/exploit/bot/multibox/spam etc in a game...

    This is plague of any genre. Nothing more in case of MMORPG games (with an exception of most cash shop f2p games where this is a serious issue on a daily basis due to it's impact on game balance).

    #3 Was recently reported that there are around 24.5 mil MMORPG subscribers in the WORLD.

    Well see my answer to first point. I.e. I already have one WoW or EQ account - I don't need second one.

    #4 Private sector. Devlopers can't develop what they want, depend on publishers, etc..Too many things to spend # on from marketing, CEO's, and so forth.

    Actually not that much private sector as relations with publishers. Independent companies if founded can do so much more as long as they can make decisions on their own. But then same can be said about film makers, musicians and so on (and in every single case this statement would be true).

    #5 Becoming more expensive to build em, programmers, graphic artists, writers, voice actors and so forth.

    This is actually a problem of the whole industry. In 90s it was possible to make a game in a few months while having only 3-4 dev teams. Now you need 3-4 divisions and it still takes over a year. Btw problem is also that games require now more and more people to be involved which also significantly impacts products quality in a very bad way (ppl that did participate in such or similar projects may know that well).

    #6 Bugs, bugs, bugs which are product of mainly of rushed, untested products or games developed by amateur/cheaper programmers.

    It's not really about bugs - there is no software without it. it's about customer support in general. Like not ignoring problems. Also when it comes to bugs I'd say that such WoW had one of the bumpiest launches of this genre and it still survived despite newcomers didn't really trust subscription based model at that time. Also MMORPG players already had nice group of games to chose from like EQ1/EQ2, AO, AC, DAoC, UO - just to name a few. But then still WoW at it's time was still the most refreshing and player friendly experience (lets face it).

    #7 Bad directions, choices, ideas by the lead designers.

    #8 Too many players out there seem to enjoy playing cheaply, repetitive games over MMORPG's like RTS, FPS, MOBAs, card games and so forth...

    I also don't agree with that. Those players tend to play RPG games too. Granted that it's hard to see new Daggerfall or Ultimas these days but still current RPG games are quite decent by comparison (in fact better than most MMORPG titles). it's rather about making it cheap so graphics can be better of maybe some voice acting introduced. But then if companies did not start to mess with those then players would never even consider such stuff as mandatory for every new game they try.

    #9 Forums like these keep exposing the flaws and trashing games that are out within first month, alerting and notifying others why the game won't last.

    Agreed.

    #10 Bad communities...

    What communities?^^ Seriously you say that finding a good community is hard while I say that finding anything that can be called a community now is even harder:-) 

    I can go forth and forth and forth on the MANY reasons many would think why MMORPG's are at the current stage today, but all those reasons above are innacurate. There is one simple reason why today's MMORPG's aren't something truly better and greater than MMORPG's that were launched decades today and that is...

    Those in charge of developing MMORPG's do not have the skills, love, experience, drive to work together and develop one EPIC MMORPG that when created it will make the MMORPG P2P market become 125 mil not 24 mil. People today do not involve themself with MMORPG's because they believe that LIFE has better options and value/entertainment. It's NOBODY's elses fault but yourself if you fail to deliver a successful product that can create a market and lure people to spend $ on it.

    So for the last time, I'm tired of seeing all these threads, with so many reasons/assumptions why we have the quality of MMORPG's today after all these years. If people are happy enough with their lives as they are to not create that epic MMORPG then good for them. If people have the $ and are not as desperate to create it, again good for them. And if us the gamers can find ways to entertain ourselves in these dire times for this genre good for us.

    I for once have not spent a DIME in the last 3 years, 6 months and 1 week on any new MMORPG that came and I wasn't the reason, I wasn't burnt out or anything. I simply did not find a product I see myself playing and I moved along as many out there.

    The only way this genre will go forward is us the gamers are resilient and cautious with our $. It's our only way we can vote and when people don't pay for MMORPG's it doesn't mean there is no MARKET out there. It simply means there has been no publisher/developer out there capable to create/capture a market.

     

  • SilacoidSilacoid Chicago, ILPosts: 237Member

    Just out of curiosity, why did you list 10 reasons when you claimed there was only one simple reason why the genre is at this state today...

    Also, this is just completely false:

    "Bugs, bugs, bugs which are product of mainly of rushed, untested products or games developed by amateur/cheaper programmers."

    The reason there are more bugs are because the games are more and more complex over time, not because of laziness or amateur programmers.

  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Posts: 789Member Uncommon
    Anyone remember the days when Ragnarok Online was P2P and how popular it was?
  • JoeyjojoshabaduJoeyjojoshabadu BuderimPosts: 162Member Uncommon

    Sort of reminds me of a Bankys quote:

     

    “The thing I hate the most about advertising is that it attracts all the bright, creative and ambitious young people, leaving us mainly with the slow and self-obsessed to become our artists.. Modern art is a disaster area. Never in the field of human history has so much been used by so many to say so little.” 

    Banksy

     

    I don't think that MMORPG programmers are necessarily the slow and self-obsessed remnants, but I do feel the upcoming best and the brightest are moving into MOBAs and other newer genres, leaving the old guard (and yes, some of the slow and self-obsessed) to do the MMORPG programming/design.

     

     

  • KangaroomouseKangaroomouse MonacoPosts: 394Member
    Originally posted by Silacoid

    Also, this is just completely false:

    "Bugs, bugs, bugs which are product of mainly of rushed, untested products or games developed by amateur/cheaper programmers."

    The reason there are more bugs are because the games are more and more complex over time, not because of laziness or amateur programmers.

    Funny, then why do all these games feel alot cheaper and simpler than the older ones? They are all dumbed down not more complex.

  • pantaropantaro monticello, NYPosts: 142Member
    i came here for 1 reason,not 10.......
  • fivorothfivoroth LondonPosts: 3,665Member Uncommon

    I don't agree. There is not a single easy explanation for how this genre developed. And your "one" reason also is not the one.

    I think one of the big problems with a lot of these old hardcore old-school players is that they want an MMO which is supposed to be some kind of virtual life. If those disgruntled MMO "veterans" realised that an MMO does not have to be a replacement for their life and stopped expecting a game which will last them a lifetime and stopped thinking about the future of a game etc., then they might just enjoy what they have now.

    MMOs are not meant to be played for years. They are not meant to replace your life. They are not a virtual world where you can live. They are games. Seriously, sometimes I feel that these MMO "veterans" are like one of those Dungeon and Dragons people who get so obsessed over something which is imaginary and not significant in any way.

    Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.

  • CoatedCoated Woodside, CAPosts: 340Member Uncommon

    #7 is all that needs to be addressed.

    All of the other reasons are simply a result of #7.

  • DrunkWolfDrunkWolf Posts: 1,180Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kopogero

    And ironicly after my epic quest from 2001 with MMORPG's I'm back to my first...Anyways, these are some of the top reasons people think why we are in this state.

    #1 Saturated market, too many options, spread players across, bigger competition, etc, etc..

    #2 Too many programs/ways today to cheat/exploit/bot/multibox/spam etc in a game...

    #3 Was recently reported that there are around 24.5 mil MMORPG subscribers in the WORLD.

    #4 Private sector. Devlopers can't develop what they want, depend on publishers, etc..Too many things to spend # on from marketing, CEO's, and so forth.

    #5 Becoming more expensive to build em, programmers, graphic artists, writers, voice actors and so forth.

    #6 Bugs, bugs, bugs which are product of mainly of rushed, untested products or games developed by amateur/cheaper programmers.

    #7 Bad directions, choices, ideas by the lead designers.

    #8 Too many players out there seem to enjoy playing cheaply, repetitive games over MMORPG's like RTS, FPS, MOBAs, card games and so forth...

    #9 Forums like these keep exposing the flaws and trashing games that are out within first month, alerting and notifying others why the game won't last.

    #10 Bad communities...

     

    I can go forth and forth and forth on the MANY reasons many would think why MMORPG's are at the current stage today, but all those reasons above are innacurate. There is one simple reason why today's MMORPG's aren't something truly better and greater than MMORPG's that were launched decades today and that is...

    Those in charge of developing MMORPG's do not have the skills, love, experience, drive to work together and develop one EPIC MMORPG that when created it will make the MMORPG P2P market become 125 mil not 24 mil. People today do not involve themself with MMORPG's because they believe that LIFE has better options and value/entertainment. It's NOBODY's elses fault but yourself if you fail to deliver a successful product that can create a market and lure people to spend $ on it.

    So for the last time, I'm tired of seeing all these threads, with so many reasons/assumptions why we have the quality of MMORPG's today after all these years. If people are happy enough with their lives as they are to not create that epic MMORPG then good for them. If people have the $ and are not as desperate to create it, again good for them. And if us the gamers can find ways to entertain ourselves in these dire times for this genre good for us.

    I for once have not spent a DIME in the last 3 years, 6 months and 1 week on any new MMORPG that came and I wasn't the reason, I wasn't burnt out or anything. I simply did not find a product I see myself playing and I moved along as many out there.

    The only way this genre will go forward is us the gamers are resilient and cautious with our $. It's our only way we can vote and when people don't pay for MMORPG's it doesn't mean there is no MARKET out there. It simply means there has been no publisher/developer out there capable to create/capture a market.

    Thats not one simple reason like the title says.

    But i can give you one simple reason, its called Greed.

    These games are now nothing but cash grabs, they are made with full intention of going free to play later down the road. They start off with a sub and box price to maximize profit, then milk the subs as long as possible. Then lay off Devs delay content and tell everybody its because they arnt making enough money and soon will be going free to play.

    And why does this happen you may ask? because these games hold no value past the first couple months, you can be max level and doing the " end game " wich is normally a couple instances or some lame zoned pvp that keeps peoples attention for maybe a month. and after a few months there is the mass exodus. and everybody is off to the next cash grab shiny.

    I guess in the end is really our own fault.

    If people didnt buy shit, they would stop trying to sell us shit.

  • KopogeroKopogero Shevat, ONPosts: 898Member Uncommon
    I put those top 10 reasons of WHY OTHERS(players and producers alike) THINK (not I) why the MMORPG genre is at this state. If you bothered to read the entire thread you would see the SIMPLE ONE REASON why the MMORPG genre is at this state (imo).
  • k61977k61977 Pendleton, SCPosts: 145Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by pantaro
    i came here for 1 reason,not 10.......

    I take it you didn't understand his post at all or read it.  He stated these are some reasons people believe that MMO's are in this state and stated those are wrong it isn't them.  Then he stated his opinion which is just that his opinion, not right or wrong just his opinion.

    image

  • k61977k61977 Pendleton, SCPosts: 145Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kopogero
    I put those top 10 reasons of WHY OTHERS(players and producers alike) THINK (not I) why the MMORPG genre is at this state. If you bothered to read the entire thread you would see the SIMPLE ONE REASON why the MMORPG genre is at this state (imo).

    LOL I was writing the same thing when you posted!

    image

  • JaedorJaedor Denver, COPosts: 1,140Member Uncommon

    That list is a LOT more than one simple reason...

  • k61977k61977 Pendleton, SCPosts: 145Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Jaedor

    That list is a LOT more than one simple reason...

    Another person that can't read, I am really starting to feel sorry for the education systems today.  Refer to the two or more post about it not being 10 reasons please.

    image

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