Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Fuzzy Avatars Solved! Please re-upload your avatar if it was fuzzy!

[Column] General: Teenage Girls Create Their First RPG

2

Comments

  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member
    Originally posted by 3-4thElf
    Originally posted by Bolthar

    I don't understand why this is Girls Make Games is even news. Boys and girls can both do gaming concepts, art, coding, and anything else to do with computing and developing. Not to mention I saw the video with the snip-it and it is not as though they did anything groundbreaking. If this same thing was boys doing it this would be a non story. I applaud the for doing it... but newsworthy? I fail to see the why of this being news.

    This is right up there with the woman who posted about the fact Thor is now to be a woman and she was putting down all the male posters and said it was about time they made a female superhero for girls to look up to. When I told her about the plethora of female superheroes already out there (Dazzler, Jean Grey (Phoenix), Wonder Woman, Aurora, Kitty Pride, Darkstar, Invisible Woman, Polaris, and the list goes on) I became the bad guy for indicating there is already a number of strong female role models out there.

    I guess I am just a bit too progressive thinking that boys and girls can do similar tasks and its not really a big deal...

    Let me spell it out to you and the others making similar 'progressive' statements as to why you're not seeing why it's news.

    There's roughly 10% of the game industry out there who are female. 1 in 10 game development workers are women. Way less than that are in the programming side. There's a lot of planners, managers, and now artists who are female, but they don't get into the nitty gritty world of hardcore game design & programming because they're told that they can't. Not directly told, but it's a force out there.

    Girls in grade school are top students in math. In North America by the time they finish high school only about 10% honor in math... Same goes for college. The reason being is there's a lot of unspoken pressure that math & computer science is what boys do. Drawing and HR is what girls do.

    This being news, going out there for people to read shows a direct contradiction to assumptions. You may not see the assumptions, you seem aloof to plenty of things by your comments.

    Having an industry made up by nearly equal amounts of male & female users, but only influenced at a 9:1 ratio doesn't make for good business in the long run.

    This is news because it needs to be seen by males & females so they can see that it isn't true. If we leave it unsaid then all of the things unsaid will be assumed and will be false.

     

    Care to cite your sources where you say there are a lot more than 10% of programmers who are women ? Reason is that I am a proffesional SW developer and have been for the last 10 years and I can tell you that there is easily less than 10% of the people I have worked with who are SW developers and women. Most women, in my line of work, are project managers, web designers, usability experts and similar. Programmers, they are (mostly) not.

    And the notion that just because your clients are a certain gender then your business need to be of the same gender does not hold true in every industry out there, so why gaming?

    And I would like to see some proof that "they are told that they cant" get into game development. Sounds like feminist propaganda to me. I want to get into gaming development but I cant for two reasons. I am not good enough in C/C++ and I dont have enough connections to get into that business. And Im a male.

  • 3-4thElf3-4thElf Elftown, MEPosts: 489Member
    Originally posted by Yamota
    Originally posted by 3-4thElf
    Originally posted by Bolthar

    I don't understand why this is Girls Make Games is even news. Boys and girls can both do gaming concepts, art, coding, and anything else to do with computing and developing. Not to mention I saw the video with the snip-it and it is not as though they did anything groundbreaking. If this same thing was boys doing it this would be a non story. I applaud the for doing it... but newsworthy? I fail to see the why of this being news.

    This is right up there with the woman who posted about the fact Thor is now to be a woman and she was putting down all the male posters and said it was about time they made a female superhero for girls to look up to. When I told her about the plethora of female superheroes already out there (Dazzler, Jean Grey (Phoenix), Wonder Woman, Aurora, Kitty Pride, Darkstar, Invisible Woman, Polaris, and the list goes on) I became the bad guy for indicating there is already a number of strong female role models out there.

    I guess I am just a bit too progressive thinking that boys and girls can do similar tasks and its not really a big deal...

    Let me spell it out to you and the others making similar 'progressive' statements as to why you're not seeing why it's news.

    There's roughly 10% of the game industry out there who are female. 1 in 10 game development workers are women. Way less than that are in the programming side. There's a lot of planners, managers, and now artists who are female, but they don't get into the nitty gritty world of hardcore game design & programming because they're told that they can't. Not directly told, but it's a force out there.

    Girls in grade school are top students in math. In North America by the time they finish high school only about 10% honor in math... Same goes for college. The reason being is there's a lot of unspoken pressure that math & computer science is what boys do. Drawing and HR is what girls do.

    This being news, going out there for people to read shows a direct contradiction to assumptions. You may not see the assumptions, you seem aloof to plenty of things by your comments.

    Having an industry made up by nearly equal amounts of male & female users, but only influenced at a 9:1 ratio doesn't make for good business in the long run.

    This is news because it needs to be seen by males & females so they can see that it isn't true. If we leave it unsaid then all of the things unsaid will be assumed and will be false.

     

    Care to cite your sources where you say there are a lot more than 10% of programmers who are women ? Reason is that I am a proffesional SW developer and have been for the last 10 years and I can tell you that there is easily less than 10% of the people I have worked with who are SW developers and women. Most women, in my line of work, are project managers, web designers, usability experts and similar. Programmers, they are (mostly) not.

    And the notion that just because your clients are a certain gender then your business need to be of the same gender does not hold true in every industry out there, so why gaming?

    And I would like to see some proof that "they are told that they cant" get into game development. Sounds like feminist propaganda to me. I want to get into gaming development but I cant for two reasons. I am not good enough in C/C++ and I dont have enough connections to get into that business. And Im a male.

    You're not a programmer.

    A programmer would've read what I wrote properly. The stats are, 12% of the game industry are female. I said way less than that are programmers.

    As for citing... There's nces.ed.gov

    Besides that let me quote you.

    "Programmers, they are (mostly) not. And the notion that just because your clients are a certain gender then your business need to be of the same gender does not hold true in every industry out there, so why gaming?"

    My line of work is market analysis. This evolved from web traffic to AB testing all sorts of things. A product that's already profitable can become 30% more profitable by having direct insight from a target demographic being on board the design process. I have some real stats on that being true over at adage.com

    It's not feminist propaganda, but it is contrary to your paper plate thin way of thinking. 

    a yo ho ho

  • RodentofdoomRodentofdoom NottinghamPosts: 273Member
    Originally posted by DMKano

     

    Still what is it with girls and unicorns???

     

    It's the horn.

     

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,667Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by adam_nox
    We really need more females designing, writing, and managing big game development.  This focus on gender for the making of a small title is really the exact opposite of what would help gaming today.

    Can you tell us which studios don't have females in the upper levels of their game design teams?

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • sumdumguy1sumdumguy1 avondale, AZPosts: 962Member Uncommon
    Gender should be irrelevant.  If girls make games great!  I imagine getting serious in the industry may be a bit challenging, but hopefully that doesn't curtail their desire.  As for this game, its certainly a start and hopefully this effort will be successful and perhaps a door opening for others to follow.
  • zach_bzach_b New Cumberland, PAPosts: 28Member
    Originally posted by greenreen

    You are entitled to your opinion. You weren't there and you didn't hear everything. I can expose nothing further without outing enough details to mention where I work. I have paperwork from the ALJ judge during my hearing and I don't think I need to expose that either to a disbeliever or mention how I ended up taking papers home after grabbing a stack which included reports which revealed that I was the lowest paid person in the office though I had been there longer before I started asking for raises. You see, I thought everyone was being paid badly like me and I was the only intern who worked for free. All other employees weren't supposed to "prove" they should be there by working for free for 6 mos. There are a lot of things you weren't told. As mentioned, I glazed things. I thought erroneously that I was treated equally until a chance occurrence grabbing an extra stack of papers in a meeting unrelated to my own because we were all sitting next to each other. Fate - who knows.

    I think I put my boss in the good light, you see, he has kept me employed even with strife from his own wife. It's not because of my arrogance which I'm free to display here as a venting ground, it's because of my aptitude. I don't think he closes the door to hit on me. He's just a hard worker who likes to concentrate - it is his wife who pops into the office unannounced who had the issue. I think I absolutely have the right to keep things robotic to reduce gossip and you don't have any bearing on how I will act or continue to act. If you got to know my personality instead of focusing on my gender you would learn that I'm an INTJ - that means that I'm arrogant because I can be, not because I'm against men.  Also I am that annoying A student you hear about who was in advanced classes and read college level in grade school. I screwed up your curve lol   School yourself, read this.http://www.keirsey.com/4temps/mastermind.asp It will give you insight into my ways. I'm not just whistling dixie mon cher.

    From one INTJ to another, you are not the portrait of the mastermind. Rather, you exhibit the most common psychological profile of the INTJ:  the low self-esteem narcissist. It's a character flaw and we all have them, you just haven't accepted yours yet.

  • ryvendarkryvendark vancouver, BCPosts: 141Member
    Originally posted by 3-4thElf
     

    Let me spell it out to you and the others making similar 'progressive' statements as to why you're not seeing why it's news.

    There's roughly 10% of the game industry out there who are female. 1 in 10 game development workers are women. Way less than that are in the programming side. There's a lot of planners, managers, and now artists who are female, but they don't get into the nitty gritty world of hardcore game design & programming because they're told that they can't. Not directly told, but it's a force out there.

     

    That's the sexist victim way of seeing it. Another way of looking at it is up until a few years ago women on/in the internet game "world" were a myth. mmorpg = many men online role playing girls didn't become a joke because it wasn't true. It started because almost every female character in EQ/UO/vanila wow was a guy playing one.

    In the early days of game development they didn't make games for them and girls weren't all that interested in them. That has a direct impact on how many decide to go into that field when they grow up.

    There has been a massive change in that area over the last 10 years and girls/women are very common as players now. It's going to change the number of females that grow up wanting to make games too.

  • LawlmonsterLawlmonster Dallas, TXPosts: 954Member Uncommon

    I think what really matters, rather than trying to force gender specific agendas into their art, is making a good game. Make a good game, and get attention for it being well made, because I couldn't care less if it was a team of men, women, aliens, or half-monkey half-dolphins who could be accredited the achievement.

     

    That's right, I said it: half-monkey, half-dolphin.

    "This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)

  • derek39derek39 monett, MOPosts: 155Member Uncommon
    Awful.

    Monster Hunter Veteran since '04.
    Currently playing: MH4U, Bloodborne, FFXIV, and a bit of GW2 on the side.

  • greenreengreenreen Punchoo, AKPosts: 2,101Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by zach_b
    Originally posted by greenreen

    You are entitled to your opinion. You weren't there and you didn't hear everything. I can expose nothing further without outing enough details to mention where I work. I have paperwork from the ALJ judge during my hearing and I don't think I need to expose that either to a disbeliever or mention how I ended up taking papers home after grabbing a stack which included reports which revealed that I was the lowest paid person in the office though I had been there longer before I started asking for raises. You see, I thought everyone was being paid badly like me and I was the only intern who worked for free. All other employees weren't supposed to "prove" they should be there by working for free for 6 mos. There are a lot of things you weren't told. As mentioned, I glazed things. I thought erroneously that I was treated equally until a chance occurrence grabbing an extra stack of papers in a meeting unrelated to my own because we were all sitting next to each other. Fate - who knows.

    I think I put my boss in the good light, you see, he has kept me employed even with strife from his own wife. It's not because of my arrogance which I'm free to display here as a venting ground, it's because of my aptitude. I don't think he closes the door to hit on me. He's just a hard worker who likes to concentrate - it is his wife who pops into the office unannounced who had the issue. I think I absolutely have the right to keep things robotic to reduce gossip and you don't have any bearing on how I will act or continue to act. If you got to know my personality instead of focusing on my gender you would learn that I'm an INTJ - that means that I'm arrogant because I can be, not because I'm against men.  Also I am that annoying A student you hear about who was in advanced classes and read college level in grade school. I screwed up your curve lol   School yourself, read this.http://www.keirsey.com/4temps/mastermind.asp It will give you insight into my ways. I'm not just whistling dixie mon cher.

    From one INTJ to another, you are not the portrait of the mastermind. Rather, you exhibit the most common psychological profile of the INTJ:  the low self-esteem narcissist. It's a character flaw and we all have them, you just haven't accepted yours yet.

    Well that's something I haven't heard before. You want to explain how I manage to be engulfed in myself yet don't like myself. An INTJ is prone to cut out people from their world they don't like. I know that I'm better than many people around me at many things and I'm completely aware of what I'm not good at. Public speaking is one thing I don't win points at but in turn I am quick witted so it's not the speaking part that's a problem it's the lack of banter. It's boring to repeat what I know to dead eyes, it's not boring to hear something else and trade thoughts on it especially if you touch on a subject that is something I have data about - then I can show some enthusiasm to add more data to your knowledge base. With what you know and what I know we can surely come up with something more interesting than what each of us know in singular space.

    Now, when there is a 3 person group then I'm plenty comfortable yapping away but that's only because they will interrupt with data if needed changing the way I have to relay the data or perhaps cause me to rethink my previous thoughts when their information is taken into account. If you are honestly an INTJ then you know facts trump all. And you also know that facts can change like when the facts used to be that the sun revolved around the earth. That's why you have to go deeper and why you have to continually take in data to keep todays facts true tomorrow. 

    P.S. Narcissists don't wear Birkenstocks for 5 years and they use other people for their own gains. I may come off arrogant but narcissist is impossible. I spend entirely too much energy being empathetic to ever be categorized that way. Just a few posts back of mine I talk deeply on this with free to play games and how I don't like the idea of others being exploited. I'm an open book but I've been called plenty of names in this post and I think I'm being very nice right now responding because if you think you know me just because you saw two posts of mine - you've got a lot to learn about humans.

    This is my opinion on your "self esteem" claim. NSFW http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQ7ONTA8MXA

    People with low self esteem don't ask for a raise leveraging and vocalizing what they know to get it and they don't resolve situations themselves like extracting themselves from potentially career wrecking situations (see remotely working to avoid le wifey drama). If I disliked me I would be seeking others to fulfill me and fill up my nascent missing parts. I feel neither broken nor torn on this item of esteem. I also am able to find solutions to problems that come completely from - you guessed it - me - that's how anyone builds esteem. They do things well and look back on it with a puffed out chest then say - well look at me - I did that, seems I have some value on this rock.

    Arrogant, competitive - check but not without reason and proof instead it's the explanation that sounds haughty because excelling at things is not the norm so when you encounter something in that realm you say it's impossible or arrogant. You can attribute those to me any day of the week you like because I understand why it's seen as arrogance instead of confidence based on knowledge. On Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, and throw a double in there on Saturday and Sunday because the office isn't open.

    Sometimes I think the more I try to explain things the harder I make them to understand - I am going to stop editing these posts because they get exhaustive. I wish they had never told me that INTJs are hard for other people to understand and they have trouble communicating clearly because I'm taking insults as ignorance that requires explanation when it may just be stupidity not an interest in knowing at all. The amount of words and re-thinking needed to type out things without loopholes on the internet is awfully time consuming. I think now that I have to go too deep alienating the message because of all the explanation that has to take place around it. lol

    Yessir, I need me some of them thar - that sucks posts. One liners would reduce the time I spend on other people.

  • Ket_VilianoKet_Viliano Concord, CAPosts: 268Member
    Originally posted by greenreen
    Originally posted by zach_b
    Originally posted by greenreen

    You are entitled to your opinion. You weren't there and you didn't hear everything. I can expose nothing further without outing enough details to mention where I work. I have paperwork from the ALJ judge during my hearing and I don't think I need to expose that either to a disbeliever or mention how I ended up taking papers home after grabbing a stack which included reports which revealed that I was the lowest paid person in the office though I had been there longer before I started asking for raises. You see, I thought everyone was being paid badly like me and I was the only intern who worked for free. All other employees weren't supposed to "prove" they should be there by working for free for 6 mos. There are a lot of things you weren't told. As mentioned, I glazed things. I thought erroneously that I was treated equally until a chance occurrence grabbing an extra stack of papers in a meeting unrelated to my own because we were all sitting next to each other. Fate - who knows.

    I think I put my boss in the good light, you see, he has kept me employed even with strife from his own wife. It's not because of my arrogance which I'm free to display here as a venting ground, it's because of my aptitude. I don't think he closes the door to hit on me. He's just a hard worker who likes to concentrate - it is his wife who pops into the office unannounced who had the issue. I think I absolutely have the right to keep things robotic to reduce gossip and you don't have any bearing on how I will act or continue to act. If you got to know my personality instead of focusing on my gender you would learn that I'm an INTJ - that means that I'm arrogant because I can be, not because I'm against men.  Also I am that annoying A student you hear about who was in advanced classes and read college level in grade school. I screwed up your curve lol   School yourself, read this.http://www.keirsey.com/4temps/mastermind.asp It will give you insight into my ways. I'm not just whistling dixie mon cher.

    From one INTJ to another, you are not the portrait of the mastermind. Rather, you exhibit the most common psychological profile of the INTJ:  the low self-esteem narcissist. It's a character flaw and we all have them, you just haven't accepted yours yet.

    Well that's something I haven't heard before. You want to explain how I manage to be engulfed in myself yet don't like myself. An INTJ is prone to cut out people from their world they don't like. I know that I'm better than many people around me at many things and I'm completely aware of what I'm not good at. Public speaking is one thing I don't win points at but in turn I am quick witted so it's not the speaking part that's a problem it's the lack of banter. It's boring to repeat what I know to dead eyes, it's not boring to hear something else and trade thoughts on it especially if you touch on a subject that is something I have data about - then I can show some enthusiasm to add more data to your knowledge base. With what you know and what I know we can surely come up with something more interesting than what each of us know in singular space.

    Now, when there is a 3 person group then I'm plenty comfortable yapping away but that's only because they will interrupt with data if needed changing the way I have to relay the data or perhaps cause me to rethink my previous thoughts when their information is taken into account. If you are honestly an INTJ then you know facts trump all. And you also know that facts can change like when the facts used to be that the sun revolved around the earth. That's why you have to go deeper and why you have to continually take in data to keep todays facts true tomorrow. 

    P.S. Narcissists don't wear Birkenstocks for 5 years and they use other people for their own gains. I may come off arrogant but narcissist is impossible. I spend entirely too much energy being empathetic to ever be categorized that way. Just a few posts back of mine I talk deeply on this with free to play games and how I don't like the idea of others being exploited. I'm an open book but I've been called plenty of names in this post and I think I'm being very nice right now responding because if you think you know me just because you saw two posts of mine - you've got a lot to learn about humans.

    This is my opinion on your "self esteem" claim. NSFW http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQ7ONTA8MXA

    People with low self esteem don't ask for a raise leveraging and vocalizing what they know to get it and they don't resolve situations themselves like extracting themselves from potentially career wrecking situations (see remotely working to avoid le wifey drama). If I disliked me I would be seeking others to fulfill me and fill up my nascent missing parts. I feel neither broken nor torn on this item of esteem. I also am able to find solutions to problems that come completely from - you guessed it - me - that's how anyone builds esteem. They do things well and look back on it with a puffed out chest then say - well look at me - I did that, seems I have some value on this rock.

    Arrogant, competitive - check but not without reason and proof instead it's the explanation that sounds haughty because excelling at things is not the norm so when you encounter something in that realm you say it's impossible or arrogant. You can attribute those to me any day of the week you like because I understand why it's seen as arrogance instead of confidence based on knowledge. On Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, and throw a double in there on Saturday and Sunday because the office isn't open.

    Sometimes I think the more I try to explain things the harder I make them to understand - I am going to stop editing these posts because they get exhaustive. I wish they had never told me that INTJs are hard for other people to understand and they have trouble communicating clearly because I'm taking insults as ignorance that requires explanation when it may just be stupidity not an interest in knowing at all. The amount of words and re-thinking needed to type out things without loopholes on the internet is awfully time consuming. I think now that I have to go too deep alienating the message because of all the explanation that has to take place around it. lol

    Yessir, I need me some of them thar - that sucks posts. One liners would reduce the time I spend on other people.

    Narcissists just love to talk all about themselves, just like you. From one INTJ to another, you come across as arrogant, and self absorbed, for which there is never any justification.

  • ryvendarkryvendark vancouver, BCPosts: 141Member
    Originally posted by Ket_Viliano
    Originally posted by greenreen
    Originally posted by zach_b
    Originally posted by greenreen

    You are entitled to your opinion. You weren't there and you didn't hear everything. I can expose nothing further without outing enough details to mention where I work. I have paperwork from the ALJ judge during my hearing and I don't think I need to expose that either to a disbeliever or mention how I ended up taking papers home after grabbing a stack which included reports which revealed that I was the lowest paid person in the office though I had been there longer before I started asking for raises. You see, I thought everyone was being paid badly like me and I was the only intern who worked for free. All other employees weren't supposed to "prove" they should be there by working for free for 6 mos. There are a lot of things you weren't told. As mentioned, I glazed things. I thought erroneously that I was treated equally until a chance occurrence grabbing an extra stack of papers in a meeting unrelated to my own because we were all sitting next to each other. Fate - who knows.

    I think I put my boss in the good light, you see, he has kept me employed even with strife from his own wife. It's not because of my arrogance which I'm free to display here as a venting ground, it's because of my aptitude. I don't think he closes the door to hit on me. He's just a hard worker who likes to concentrate - it is his wife who pops into the office unannounced who had the issue. I think I absolutely have the right to keep things robotic to reduce gossip and you don't have any bearing on how I will act or continue to act. If you got to know my personality instead of focusing on my gender you would learn that I'm an INTJ - that means that I'm arrogant because I can be, not because I'm against men.  Also I am that annoying A student you hear about who was in advanced classes and read college level in grade school. I screwed up your curve lol   School yourself, read this.http://www.keirsey.com/4temps/mastermind.asp It will give you insight into my ways. I'm not just whistling dixie mon cher.

    From one INTJ to another, you are not the portrait of the mastermind. Rather, you exhibit the most common psychological profile of the INTJ:  the low self-esteem narcissist. It's a character flaw and we all have them, you just haven't accepted yours yet.

    Well that's something I haven't heard before. You want to explain how I manage to be engulfed in myself yet don't like myself. An INTJ is prone to cut out people from their world they don't like. I know that I'm better than many people around me at many things and I'm completely aware of what I'm not good at. Public speaking is one thing I don't win points at but in turn I am quick witted so it's not the speaking part that's a problem it's the lack of banter. It's boring to repeat what I know to dead eyes, it's not boring to hear something else and trade thoughts on it especially if you touch on a subject that is something I have data about - then I can show some enthusiasm to add more data to your knowledge base. With what you know and what I know we can surely come up with something more interesting than what each of us know in singular space.

    Now, when there is a 3 person group then I'm plenty comfortable yapping away but that's only because they will interrupt with data if needed changing the way I have to relay the data or perhaps cause me to rethink my previous thoughts when their information is taken into account. If you are honestly an INTJ then you know facts trump all. And you also know that facts can change like when the facts used to be that the sun revolved around the earth. That's why you have to go deeper and why you have to continually take in data to keep todays facts true tomorrow. 

    P.S. Narcissists don't wear Birkenstocks for 5 years and they use other people for their own gains. I may come off arrogant but narcissist is impossible. I spend entirely too much energy being empathetic to ever be categorized that way. Just a few posts back of mine I talk deeply on this with free to play games and how I don't like the idea of others being exploited. I'm an open book but I've been called plenty of names in this post and I think I'm being very nice right now responding because if you think you know me just because you saw two posts of mine - you've got a lot to learn about humans.

    This is my opinion on your "self esteem" claim. NSFW http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQ7ONTA8MXA

    People with low self esteem don't ask for a raise leveraging and vocalizing what they know to get it and they don't resolve situations themselves like extracting themselves from potentially career wrecking situations (see remotely working to avoid le wifey drama). If I disliked me I would be seeking others to fulfill me and fill up my nascent missing parts. I feel neither broken nor torn on this item of esteem. I also am able to find solutions to problems that come completely from - you guessed it - me - that's how anyone builds esteem. They do things well and look back on it with a puffed out chest then say - well look at me - I did that, seems I have some value on this rock.

    Arrogant, competitive - check but not without reason and proof instead it's the explanation that sounds haughty because excelling at things is not the norm so when you encounter something in that realm you say it's impossible or arrogant. You can attribute those to me any day of the week you like because I understand why it's seen as arrogance instead of confidence based on knowledge. On Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, and throw a double in there on Saturday and Sunday because the office isn't open.

    Sometimes I think the more I try to explain things the harder I make them to understand - I am going to stop editing these posts because they get exhaustive. I wish they had never told me that INTJs are hard for other people to understand and they have trouble communicating clearly because I'm taking insults as ignorance that requires explanation when it may just be stupidity not an interest in knowing at all. The amount of words and re-thinking needed to type out things without loopholes on the internet is awfully time consuming. I think now that I have to go too deep alienating the message because of all the explanation that has to take place around it. lol

    Yessir, I need me some of them thar - that sucks posts. One liners would reduce the time I spend on other people.

    Narcissists just love to talk all about themselves, just like you. 

    I think the not a narcissists thing is a hard sell for someone to make when they turn a thread about girls making games into ...a long long rant about themselves. With waaaaay too much information on a public game forum.

  • greenreengreenreen Punchoo, AKPosts: 2,101Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ryvendark
    Originally posted by Ket_Viliano
    Originally posted by greenreen
    Originally posted by zach_b
    Originally posted by greenreen

    You are entitled to your opinion. You weren't there and you didn't hear everything. I can expose nothing further without outing enough details to mention where I work. I have paperwork from the ALJ judge during my hearing and I don't think I need to expose that either to a disbeliever or mention how I ended up taking papers home after grabbing a stack which included reports which revealed that I was the lowest paid person in the office though I had been there longer before I started asking for raises. You see, I thought everyone was being paid badly like me and I was the only intern who worked for free. All other employees weren't supposed to "prove" they should be there by working for free for 6 mos. There are a lot of things you weren't told. As mentioned, I glazed things. I thought erroneously that I was treated equally until a chance occurrence grabbing an extra stack of papers in a meeting unrelated to my own because we were all sitting next to each other. Fate - who knows.

    I think I put my boss in the good light, you see, he has kept me employed even with strife from his own wife. It's not because of my arrogance which I'm free to display here as a venting ground, it's because of my aptitude. I don't think he closes the door to hit on me. He's just a hard worker who likes to concentrate - it is his wife who pops into the office unannounced who had the issue. I think I absolutely have the right to keep things robotic to reduce gossip and you don't have any bearing on how I will act or continue to act. If you got to know my personality instead of focusing on my gender you would learn that I'm an INTJ - that means that I'm arrogant because I can be, not because I'm against men.  Also I am that annoying A student you hear about who was in advanced classes and read college level in grade school. I screwed up your curve lol   School yourself, read this.http://www.keirsey.com/4temps/mastermind.asp It will give you insight into my ways. I'm not just whistling dixie mon cher.

    From one INTJ to another, you are not the portrait of the mastermind. Rather, you exhibit the most common psychological profile of the INTJ:  the low self-esteem narcissist. It's a character flaw and we all have them, you just haven't accepted yours yet.

    Well that's something I haven't heard before. You want to explain how I manage to be engulfed in myself yet don't like myself. An INTJ is prone to cut out people from their world they don't like. I know that I'm better than many people around me at many things and I'm completely aware of what I'm not good at. Public speaking is one thing I don't win points at but in turn I am quick witted so it's not the speaking part that's a problem it's the lack of banter. It's boring to repeat what I know to dead eyes, it's not boring to hear something else and trade thoughts on it especially if you touch on a subject that is something I have data about - then I can show some enthusiasm to add more data to your knowledge base. With what you know and what I know we can surely come up with something more interesting than what each of us know in singular space.

    Now, when there is a 3 person group then I'm plenty comfortable yapping away but that's only because they will interrupt with data if needed changing the way I have to relay the data or perhaps cause me to rethink my previous thoughts when their information is taken into account. If you are honestly an INTJ then you know facts trump all. And you also know that facts can change like when the facts used to be that the sun revolved around the earth. That's why you have to go deeper and why you have to continually take in data to keep todays facts true tomorrow. 

    P.S. Narcissists don't wear Birkenstocks for 5 years and they use other people for their own gains. I may come off arrogant but narcissist is impossible. I spend entirely too much energy being empathetic to ever be categorized that way. Just a few posts back of mine I talk deeply on this with free to play games and how I don't like the idea of others being exploited. I'm an open book but I've been called plenty of names in this post and I think I'm being very nice right now responding because if you think you know me just because you saw two posts of mine - you've got a lot to learn about humans.

    This is my opinion on your "self esteem" claim. NSFW http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQ7ONTA8MXA

    People with low self esteem don't ask for a raise leveraging and vocalizing what they know to get it and they don't resolve situations themselves like extracting themselves from potentially career wrecking situations (see remotely working to avoid le wifey drama). If I disliked me I would be seeking others to fulfill me and fill up my nascent missing parts. I feel neither broken nor torn on this item of esteem. I also am able to find solutions to problems that come completely from - you guessed it - me - that's how anyone builds esteem. They do things well and look back on it with a puffed out chest then say - well look at me - I did that, seems I have some value on this rock.

    Arrogant, competitive - check but not without reason and proof instead it's the explanation that sounds haughty because excelling at things is not the norm so when you encounter something in that realm you say it's impossible or arrogant. You can attribute those to me any day of the week you like because I understand why it's seen as arrogance instead of confidence based on knowledge. On Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, and throw a double in there on Saturday and Sunday because the office isn't open.

    Sometimes I think the more I try to explain things the harder I make them to understand - I am going to stop editing these posts because they get exhaustive. I wish they had never told me that INTJs are hard for other people to understand and they have trouble communicating clearly because I'm taking insults as ignorance that requires explanation when it may just be stupidity not an interest in knowing at all. The amount of words and re-thinking needed to type out things without loopholes on the internet is awfully time consuming. I think now that I have to go too deep alienating the message because of all the explanation that has to take place around it. lol

    Yessir, I need me some of them thar - that sucks posts. One liners would reduce the time I spend on other people.

    Narcissists just love to talk all about themselves, just like you. 

    I think the not a narcissists thing is a hard sell for someone to make when they turn a thread about girls making games into ...a long long rant about themselves. With waaaaay too much information on a public game forum.

    See how convenient that is. You quote me, make an accusation and I respond with logic and reason to which you repeat the same content with no added content as if saying something thrice or in duplicate makes it true. Proving firstly that this wasn't about me, it was about you feeling unnoticed because what oh what did you have to contribute to the topic other than taking pot shots. Careful there, your self esteem halo is faltering. Secondly that you had nothing to back up your statements and when I back up mine you accuse me of filling a donut hole you've created in your head that exists in you. If I talk, I'm a narcissist, if I don't I'm shut up because of your superior diagNONSENSE.

    This is all you need forward.

    http://www.wisegeek.org/what-is-psychological-projection.htm

    As for the onlooker interested in getting involved in other people's business looking for a bandwagon to follow - come up with an argument that has merit based on evidence rather that a person responding to things directed at them instead of those who create things that attempt to make them eventful in the conversation. Don't jump on a bandwagon without the skill to compete. Whistle.

  • ryvendarkryvendark vancouver, BCPosts: 141Member
    Originally posted by greenreen
     

    See how convenient that is. You quote me, make an accusation and I respond with logic and reason to which you repeat the same content with no added content as if saying something thrice or in duplicate makes it true. Proving firstly that this wasn't about me, it was about you feeling unnoticed. Secondly that you had nothing to back up your statements and when I back up mine you accuse me of filling a donut hole you've created in your head that exists in you.

    This is all you need forward.

    http://www.wisegeek.org/what-is-psychological-projection.htm

    As for the onlooker interested in getting involved in other people's business looking for a bandwagon to follow - come up with an argument that has merit based on evidence rather that a person responding to things directed at them instead of those who create things that attempt to make them eventful in the conversation. Don't jump on a bandwagon without the skill to compete. Whistle.

    It's a public forum. You shouldn't have started a conversation that needed to be " your business" in the first place. Nothing about this thread ever needed to be you the victim or become a personal story at all. Next time try not spilling your personal shit to a bunch of strangers in the first place and it wont become a thread about you.

  • greenreengreenreen Punchoo, AKPosts: 2,101Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ryvendark
    Originally posted by greenreen
     

    See how convenient that is. You quote me, make an accusation and I respond with logic and reason to which you repeat the same content with no added content as if saying something thrice or in duplicate makes it true. Proving firstly that this wasn't about me, it was about you feeling unnoticed. Secondly that you had nothing to back up your statements and when I back up mine you accuse me of filling a donut hole you've created in your head that exists in you.

    This is all you need forward.

    http://www.wisegeek.org/what-is-psychological-projection.htm

    As for the onlooker interested in getting involved in other people's business looking for a bandwagon to follow - come up with an argument that has merit based on evidence rather that a person responding to things directed at them instead of those who create things that attempt to make them eventful in the conversation. Don't jump on a bandwagon without the skill to compete. Whistle.

    It's a public forum. You shouldn't have started a conversation that needed to be " your business" in the first place. Nothing about this thread ever needed to be you the victim or become a personal story at all. Next time try not spilling your personal shit to a bunch of strangers in the first place and it wont become a thread about you.

    Orrr you could mind your own business and stop quoting people because that's when you involve them directly or did you think quoting someone and slinging dirt meant you were angelic and only doing it for their own good. When did this topic become about your judgement of every participant. You are the one that instigated a response, you just don't like it. Did you see me quote anyone who had a dissenting opinion to mine in this thread. Did you see me rise against them remarking how much better my thoughts were than theirs. You know I've seen what they typed. I kept returning to the topic to respond to people who singled me out.

    People try to start arguments, they don't win then they get unhappy. Have your damn opinion but you point your finger in a crooked way at my opinion and I have every reason to expand on it - offer up evidence and go as deeply as needed because there very well may be some young person who reads this topic and needs to see someone say it's not only ok to work with men and be bothered by some of them, it's ok to be able to pick out the ones who don't see you as a toy in the office, and it's ok to protect yourself even if that means you are extra cautious - in the office or in a forum. Choose the location, the person is still the same. You don't need permission or approval to do something you like or want to do especially when it doesn't break a law or hurt another person.

    Back in the old days we used to call things like that a YP - it's a your problem. If I'm doing what pleases me and you have a problem with it - it's yours, not mine. Now, I'm content resolving your problem when I think it's miscommunication or ignorance based but c'mon. This isn't even trolling it's just name calling for some.

     

  • GameByNightGameByNight Columnist / Podcast Host Rochester, NYPosts: 122Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by pein_carbon

    if i meet chrisptober i beat the crap out that noob.

    my girlfriend and i have worked building some of the best games there is out there.

    Here is the deal ladies and gentlemen having a dick or not means nothing.

    it's all about taking the risk testing yourself to the limits the person that do most mistakes will have bigger chance to create something good.

     

     

    note that nobody know how many black or white peoples making games... it's impossible...

    because companies tend too hire outside peoples to support coding that they cannot do... so lets say there is a report of 50 peoples building the game well it could be 300 but they are just making some specific coding the rest of the team are unable to do...... so FAIL

    like a old pal used to say in guild wars 2

    WOW MASSIVE SHIT

     
     

    So, I'm guessing English is your second language. That's cool and all but would that be why you didn't read the article? Because, if you had, you'd see that I was making the same point as you. Also, it's "Christopher." (Or Chris if we're not on a byline).

     

    Guys, let's be clear here -- there'a lot of talk about why this shouldn't be news. I'm glad that so many of you have the inherent belief that women are equally capable as men. Believing anything less is a nice mix of ignorance, narcissism, and sheer stupidity. But the fact remains that for years, the games industry has not been a welcoming place for women. Listen to the recent episode of the DLC podcast over at 5by5 where they had the Game Director of Fable Legends on. He talks about their struggles recruiting women and the historical basis for why it's such a boys' club. And that's just one of many examples of developers openly acknowledging that, yes, there is a problem in our industry.

     

    What GMG is doing is newsworthy because their program is a direct answer to the gender inequality in the games industry. They are working to raise female game makers from an early age; a grass roots effort for the benefit of all of us. This story was not included because "look *gasp* it's possible for girls to make games!" It is a celebration of good work being done and an effort to honor these young ladies for their achievement. And frankly, how many of us will make a game in our lifetime? They've done it by age 16. That's worth honoring.

     

    And to those of you downplaying the issues that women face, all I will say is applying your own life experiences to those of others is a mistake for reasons that should be obvious. Do some research into what women in the game's industry have written -- or hell, women in general -- on how they're treated or spoken to by men "just trying to be nice." Ask some female Let's Players how many comments they get complimenting them on their looks rather than the content they've just uploaded. You, as a man, don't have a whole lot of place to say their feelings are invalid just because you haven't experienced them yourself.

     
     

    Writer of the RPG Files
    Official Podcast Host
    Blogger at GameByNight.com

  • mayankingmayanking south houston, TXPosts: 162Member Uncommon
    i don't think anyone cares rather a female or male made there game as long as its fun.. This is just another Non-issue they are trying to shove down our throats.
  • ThaneThane berlinPosts: 2,232Member Uncommon

    while she was talking i could only think of one thing (no, not if she is hot or not... shesh)

     

    diablo 3.

     

     

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOCubxt9cew

    "I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  • MurlockDanceMurlockDance ParisPosts: 1,223Member

    Well it has to be said, and not by a bunch of jaded grumpy male posters apparently, kudos to the young RPG creators! It is no mean feat to bring a project as involved as an RPG to completion, let alone by a group of people so young. Good job to them!

    As for numbers of women coding and being part of game projects? I have noticed a lot of female names in credits, especially in the indie industry set in Eastern Europe. Sure, the games are not as complex and big as an MMORPG is, but us 'womens' are there.

    I would love to see more diversity though not just in games workplaces but also in the games themselves and even more so in MMORPGs. As someone who is very open to other cultures, the fact remains that MMORPGs on average don't offer as much diversity as they could. Oriental themes are slowly cropping up in games like WoW because of the Chinese market, but so far there has been very little on places like Eastern Africa, Western Africa, India, Latin America, etc.

    Diversity is the spice of life!

    Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.

    image
  • MurlockDanceMurlockDance ParisPosts: 1,223Member
    Originally posted by Thane

    while she was talking i could only think of one thing (no, not if she is hot or not... shesh)

     

    diablo 3.

     

     

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOCubxt9cew

    Oooo Diablo 3....

    Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.

    image
  • ThaneThane berlinPosts: 2,232Member Uncommon
    for the record, i like d3, was not meant as flame :)

    "I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  • DeyirnDeyirn Higashine-shiPosts: 87Member
    teams should be balanced, not the one or the other extreme, but its a good start nevertheless

    image
  • TwerpOcoTwerpOco Gilbert, AZPosts: 1Member
    Isn't making a female-only group sexist too? I don't see how adding more sexism is going to fix anything. Just make the games fun and people will enjoy them. Don't try working an angle about your gender, race, or anything else.
  • zach_bzach_b New Cumberland, PAPosts: 28Member
    Originally posted by greenreen
    Originally posted by ryvendark
    Originally posted by Ket_Viliano
    Originally posted by greenreen
    Originally posted by zach_b
    Originally posted by greenreen

    You are entitled to your opinion. You weren't there and you didn't hear everything. I can expose nothing further without outing enough details to mention where I work. I have paperwork from the ALJ judge during my hearing and I don't think I need to expose that either to a disbeliever or mention how I ended up taking papers home after grabbing a stack which included reports which revealed that I was the lowest paid person in the office though I had been there longer before I started asking for raises. You see, I thought everyone was being paid badly like me and I was the only intern who worked for free. All other employees weren't supposed to "prove" they should be there by working for free for 6 mos. There are a lot of things you weren't told. As mentioned, I glazed things. I thought erroneously that I was treated equally until a chance occurrence grabbing an extra stack of papers in a meeting unrelated to my own because we were all sitting next to each other. Fate - who knows.

    I think I put my boss in the good light, you see, he has kept me employed even with strife from his own wife. It's not because of my arrogance which I'm free to display here as a venting ground, it's because of my aptitude. I don't think he closes the door to hit on me. He's just a hard worker who likes to concentrate - it is his wife who pops into the office unannounced who had the issue. I think I absolutely have the right to keep things robotic to reduce gossip and you don't have any bearing on how I will act or continue to act. If you got to know my personality instead of focusing on my gender you would learn that I'm an INTJ - that means that I'm arrogant because I can be, not because I'm against men.  Also I am that annoying A student you hear about who was in advanced classes and read college level in grade school. I screwed up your curve lol   School yourself, read this.http://www.keirsey.com/4temps/mastermind.asp It will give you insight into my ways. I'm not just whistling dixie mon cher.

    From one INTJ to another, you are not the portrait of the mastermind. Rather, you exhibit the most common psychological profile of the INTJ:  the low self-esteem narcissist. It's a character flaw and we all have them, you just haven't accepted yours yet.

    Well that's something I haven't heard before. You want to explain how I manage to be engulfed in myself yet don't like myself. An INTJ is prone to cut out people from their world they don't like. I know that I'm better than many people around me at many things and I'm completely aware of what I'm not good at. Public speaking is one thing I don't win points at but in turn I am quick witted so it's not the speaking part that's a problem it's the lack of banter. It's boring to repeat what I know to dead eyes, it's not boring to hear something else and trade thoughts on it especially if you touch on a subject that is something I have data about - then I can show some enthusiasm to add more data to your knowledge base. With what you know and what I know we can surely come up with something more interesting than what each of us know in singular space.

    Now, when there is a 3 person group then I'm plenty comfortable yapping away but that's only because they will interrupt with data if needed changing the way I have to relay the data or perhaps cause me to rethink my previous thoughts when their information is taken into account. If you are honestly an INTJ then you know facts trump all. And you also know that facts can change like when the facts used to be that the sun revolved around the earth. That's why you have to go deeper and why you have to continually take in data to keep todays facts true tomorrow. 

    P.S. Narcissists don't wear Birkenstocks for 5 years and they use other people for their own gains. I may come off arrogant but narcissist is impossible. I spend entirely too much energy being empathetic to ever be categorized that way. Just a few posts back of mine I talk deeply on this with free to play games and how I don't like the idea of others being exploited. I'm an open book but I've been called plenty of names in this post and I think I'm being very nice right now responding because if you think you know me just because you saw two posts of mine - you've got a lot to learn about humans.

    This is my opinion on your "self esteem" claim. NSFW http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQ7ONTA8MXA

    People with low self esteem don't ask for a raise leveraging and vocalizing what they know to get it and they don't resolve situations themselves like extracting themselves from potentially career wrecking situations (see remotely working to avoid le wifey drama). If I disliked me I would be seeking others to fulfill me and fill up my nascent missing parts. I feel neither broken nor torn on this item of esteem. I also am able to find solutions to problems that come completely from - you guessed it - me - that's how anyone builds esteem. They do things well and look back on it with a puffed out chest then say - well look at me - I did that, seems I have some value on this rock.

    Arrogant, competitive - check but not without reason and proof instead it's the explanation that sounds haughty because excelling at things is not the norm so when you encounter something in that realm you say it's impossible or arrogant. You can attribute those to me any day of the week you like because I understand why it's seen as arrogance instead of confidence based on knowledge. On Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, and throw a double in there on Saturday and Sunday because the office isn't open.

    Sometimes I think the more I try to explain things the harder I make them to understand - I am going to stop editing these posts because they get exhaustive. I wish they had never told me that INTJs are hard for other people to understand and they have trouble communicating clearly because I'm taking insults as ignorance that requires explanation when it may just be stupidity not an interest in knowing at all. The amount of words and re-thinking needed to type out things without loopholes on the internet is awfully time consuming. I think now that I have to go too deep alienating the message because of all the explanation that has to take place around it. lol

    Yessir, I need me some of them thar - that sucks posts. One liners would reduce the time I spend on other people.

    Narcissists just love to talk all about themselves, just like you. 

    I think the not a narcissists thing is a hard sell for someone to make when they turn a thread about girls making games into ...a long long rant about themselves. With waaaaay too much information on a public game forum.

    See how convenient that is. You quote me, make an accusation and I respond with logic and reason to which you repeat the same content with no added content as if saying something thrice or in duplicate makes it true. Proving firstly that this wasn't about me, it was about you feeling unnoticed because what oh what did you have to contribute to the topic other than taking pot shots. Careful there, your self esteem halo is faltering. Secondly that you had nothing to back up your statements and when I back up mine you accuse me of filling a donut hole you've created in your head that exists in you. If I talk, I'm a narcissist, if I don't I'm shut up because of your superior diagNONSENSE.

    This is all you need forward.

    http://www.wisegeek.org/what-is-psychological-projection.htm

    As for the onlooker interested in getting involved in other people's business looking for a bandwagon to follow - come up with an argument that has merit based on evidence rather that a person responding to things directed at them instead of those who create things that attempt to make them eventful in the conversation. Don't jump on a bandwagon without the skill to compete. Whistle.

    The most convenient thing about this whole situation is you have proven my initial interpretation to be quite accurate.  In regards to communication, there is a quote that is attributed to Feynman that has been paraphrased to "If you cannot explain it to a first-year freshman, you do not understand it well enough". I find that, while this is misattributed and paraphrased, it is often an excellent measure on the actual understanding a person may possess of the subject matter. Perhaps, if you find it difficult to explain things, it would be wise to expand your knowledge of the subject you are attempting to convey.

  • ixprovalixproval Nixa, MOPosts: 9Member

    1) Let's talk about the game. If girls/women made it, awesome. Does that mean I need a different computer, keyboard, mouse, etc., to play it since *gasp* GIRLS made it? No? then drop it.

    2) If the complainers, whiners, activists, and those who feel entitled in this world would spend as much time working toward something useful as they do complaining and whining about their personal predicament, we might be making round trips to Saturn by now.

    3) The world is unfair. Welcome to life on Planet Earth. If women were the only makers of video games, are you saying there would be no problems, no issues, no inequality, no backstabbing or prejudice? Nope, didn't think so. So since taking the men out of the equation wouldn't fix the problem, maybe you should look somewhere else to solve it. All men are not pigs. All women are not angels. It is what it is. I'm so tired of hearing this insinuation that because someone is male that they get all the breaks. Life has been hard-fought for me. I've been working in sysadmin capacity for almost 10 years at my current job with 5-6 years of sysadmin-related experience before that and I am just now being promoted to sysadmin. But I am thankful to have a job, thankful to be doing something I enjoy and I constantly look for the good in every situation. If you still have the mental capacity and ability to work and you have a job, be thankful for it rather than reaming the other people that you can't do anything about. And remember, not every decision or experience, no matter how bad, is always a product of discrimination or prejudice.

    </rant>

    What is this article about again?

    -ix

2
Sign In or Register to comment.