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A true sandbox FFA PVP MMORPG can only survive if the "carebears" stays.

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  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 9,196Member Rare


    Originally posted by jesteralways490K+ subscribed players is not niche. EVE is very much mainstearm, despite how i don't like it as it is, i must admit that EVE is a very popular mainstearm mmo.

    How much I dislike the term niche in context of MMOs, having x subs does not make it a mainstream.

    Mainstream or niche implies product properties and EVE is very much different from anything on the market.

  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 18,900Member Rare
    Originally posted by iixviiiix
    Originally posted by Loke666

    You are completely right. A PvP game needs only wolves but the mechanics needs to be so good and fun that it actually turns many former sheep to wolves.

    Having PvEers and crafters that basically only are for killing and maybe crafting gear to PvPers just isn't fun.

    Combat needs to be pretty fair at least for that to work, few players including many people who actually enjoy PvP would bother spending 2 months of being ganked just to be able to play the game on somewhat equal footing with the "wolves".

    There are ways to get fair in PVP even in PVE focus game.

    For example make 2 type of HP and 2 type of damage .

    Let call "Red hp" are PVP hp and "blue HP (shield) + red hp" are PVE hp

    The weapons deal 2 type of damage PVE damage and PVP damage .

    While you can continue raise PVE damage and HP , PVP damage and hp remain low or only raise a little.

    That way even low level players can stand change again the old time with high gears player.

    But i haven't see any MMORPG use this system .

    That is actually a rather good idea, far better than splitting the PvP and PvE zones physically....

    It would also make things harder for the type of player that watch you PvE and jump in just after the fight when you are damaged.

    Not perfect but it would work way better than any system I seen so far.

  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 18,900Member Rare
    Originally posted by Datawarlock

    While I'd like to have another Shadowrun based MMO (the closest ever being Neocron 2 DoY), I'd also rather have someone step into the world of Rifts, which hasn't been done on any scale yet, and was an outstanding p&p game with a lot of options that would work fairly well out of the box in pve/pvp/both.

    Problem is, carebears don't like pvp because they get ganked. It's ok that they can solo faceroll (or gank) everything in their single player MMO world, because that makes them feel powerful. The main catch is, it's not always a level or gear problem between pve-ers and pvpers, it's the fact that the pve crowd has gotten lazy to the point where if they die once, they'll spend an hour googling how-to's and youtube vids on how to defeat X mob. No such tutorial exists against another player, who isn't just a collection of a few kill-me-for-dummies scripts. I wonder how many mobs wish they could quit *insert MMO here* because they're constantly getting 'ganked' by overgeared and overleveled players that have a whole manual for how to defeat them.

    Rifts is an interesting idea, since your powerarmor have the same HP all the time and your characters HP cant take a single MD it would probably even up the field for PvP as well, and the world is pretty fun. All for that.

    But I don't think there is so much about tutorials as it is that in most PvP games you have zero chance of winning many fights, no matter what you do. If you take that away the PvP numbers should rise a lot even if you still wouldn't get in everyone.

  • itchmonitchmon west islip, NYPosts: 1,777Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by YoungCaesar
    I love this thread logic, FFA pvp games can only survive if carebears stay, but why would carebears play a FFA pvp game in the first place?

    if you look through the thread you will find plenty of people who dont pvp much or at all but still play eve, a FFA PVP game.  It's a good game so people play it, and the benefits to the game of having (sort of) ffa, namely the economy being in a constant state of needing crafted goods, overrides the drawback of having a gank chance when undocked.

     

    and again, I didnt touch pvp in eve from 2007 til i would say 2010 and didnt get ganked once during thosde 3 years.  only got pvp'd once in that time from a war target.

    RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.

    Currently Playing EVE, DFUW

    Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.

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  • StarIStarI Mount EverestPosts: 960Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jesteralways
     

    490K+ subscribed players is not niche. EVE is very much mainstearm, despite how i don't like it as it is, i must admit that EVE is a very popular mainstearm mmo.

     

    Can't really claim a product is mainstream just based on it's sub number?

    WoW and  dozens of  WoW clones are very much mainstream, I doubt anyone would disagree with that.

    Than look at EvE and what it offers. It could hardly be a more different mmorpg. Neither is there a single other released mmorpg that we could claim it's a clone of EvE, or even similar.

    Doesn't seem very mainstream to me. You're looking for a different word I'd say.

     

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 26,200Member Rare
    Originally posted by jesteralways

     

    490K+ subscribed players is not niche. EVE is very much mainstearm, despite how i don't like it as it is, i must admit that EVE is a very popular mainstearm mmo.

    LOl .. ONE 490k game is not niche? Do you know how many gamers are there in the US?

    How many play LoL, WoT, D3, WoW, GW2, .... even TOR?

     

  • eHugeHug HamburgPosts: 243Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by jesteralways

     

    490K+ subscribed players is not niche. EVE is very much mainstearm, despite how i don't like it as it is, i must admit that EVE is a very popular mainstearm mmo.

    LOl .. ONE 490k game is not niche? Do you know how many gamers are there in the US?

    How many play LoL, WoT, D3, WoW, GW2, .... even TOR?

    Did you even read the topic? This is about MMORPGs.

  • PurutzilPurutzil Posts: 3,021Member Uncommon

    I think you bring up the main issue. Those "PvPers" aren't looking for just pvp, they want to be griefing others and just generally screwing over others for no reason at all. To me, THIS is the huge issue with open world pvp. Without reason to behave it just becomes a griefing fest, those who have an advantage will use it to win every fight they can against those with no chance. Its not pvp at all, a 2 year old can do the stuff those "hardcore pvpers" try to push as being good.

     

    A good PvP MMOrpg sandbox would need a way to stop that pathetic act and make pvp meaningful and epic. Otherwise its just Grand Theft Auto going around on a killing spree without any reasoning without any of the fun and random elements to spice things up while doing so. I feel a good majority of players like PvP to an extent, they just dislike "Griefing" (killing those who can't fight back for no reason but to annoy people). I think if you pitched the idea of an open world battle between two factions battling out even numbers, very few would ever say its bad.  It just unfortunately ends up coming down to "Griefing" being some players sad attempt to feel good.

  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard La BarrePosts: 5,166Member Epic
    Originally posted by eHug
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by jesteralways

     

    490K+ subscribed players is not niche. EVE is very much mainstearm, despite how i don't like it as it is, i must admit that EVE is a very popular mainstearm mmo.

    LOl .. ONE 490k game is not niche? Do you know how many gamers are there in the US?

    How many play LoL, WoT, D3, WoW, GW2, .... even TOR?

    Did you even read the topic? This is about MMORPGs.

    Over 400 million MMORPG players all over the world (400.000.000 was in 2012, probably even more nowadays).

    490.000 play EvE.

    Do the maths...

     

    Originally posted by Purutzil

    I think you bring up the main issue. Those "PvPers" aren't looking for just pvp, they want to be griefing others and just generally screwing over others for no reason at all. To me, THIS is the huge issue with open world pvp. Without reason to behave it just becomes a griefing fest, those who have an advantage will use it to win every fight they can against those with no chance. Its not pvp at all, a 2 year old can do the stuff those "hardcore pvpers" try to push as being good.

    Which is an amusing coincidence, since those "PvPers" who only play to ruin other people's time have the mentality of a 2 years old.

    A good PvP MMOrpg sandbox would need a way to stop that pathetic act and make pvp meaningful and epic. Otherwise its just Grand Theft Auto going around on a killing spree without any reasoning without any of the fun and random elements to spice things up while doing so. I feel a good majority of players like PvP to an extent, they just dislike "Griefing" (killing those who can't fight back for no reason but to annoy people). I think if you pitched the idea of an open world battle between two factions battling out even numbers, very few would ever say its bad.  It just unfortunately ends up coming down to "Griefing" being some players sad attempt to feel good.

    Yep, as already said many times in this and many other threads, a good PvP MMORPG needs a very harsh justice system, and life as a criminal should be a major pain, very difficult, with impossibility to approach any civilized town without being nuked by guards too.

    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn in Star Wars. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that nor does the ability to write.


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  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 26,200Member Rare
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
    Originally posted by eHug
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by jesteralways

     

    490K+ subscribed players is not niche. EVE is very much mainstearm, despite how i don't like it as it is, i must admit that EVE is a very popular mainstearm mmo.

    LOl .. ONE 490k game is not niche? Do you know how many gamers are there in the US?

    How many play LoL, WoT, D3, WoW, GW2, .... even TOR?

    Did you even read the topic? This is about MMORPGs.

    Over 400 million MMORPG players all over the world (400.000.000 was in 2012, probably even more nowadays).

    490.000 play EvE.

    Do the maths...

     

    And LoL, WoT, WoW, GW2 and TOR are classified as MMOs by many review sites, industrial research companies, and even this site.

     

  • JemcrystalJemcrystal Champaign, ILPosts: 1,638Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by itchmon
    Originally posted by YoungCaesar
    I love this thread logic, FFA pvp games can only survive if carebears stay, but why would carebears play a FFA pvp game in the first place?

    if you look through the thread you will find plenty of people who dont pvp much or at all but still play eve, a FFA PVP game.  It's a good game so people play it, and the benefits to the game of having (sort of) ffa, namely the economy being in a constant state of needing crafted goods, overrides the drawback of having a gank chance when undocked.

     

    and again, I didnt touch pvp in eve from 2007 til i would say 2010 and didnt get ganked once during thosde 3 years.  only got pvp'd once in that time from a war target.

    Because there are few to none PvE mmorpg's being made and most games are boring clones narrowing down PvE options to nill.  I'll try a pretty PvP mmo because I simply have no where else to go.   But I wont stay and I sure as fuck wont like it.

  • MMOredfalconMMOredfalcon Mitchell, ONPosts: 151Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by SEANMCAD

     

    give the deer a gun, THEN go hunt it. That is a real sport

     Do you have any idea how retarded that statement sounds?

    Hunters go out in groups. Usually takes a group to take out one deer....if they are lucky. Because the deer has better sences...can smell them, can hear them, spot and react 10x faster than the  hunter can. You give that deer a gun and the brains to use it, it could easily take out ten hunters before the hunters even knew there was a deer around.

    How does that refer to this topic anyway? Are you saying that the PvPers are not as skilled as the PvE group, so it requires more of gankers in a group to take out one lowly PvE player?

  • udonudon Durham, NCPosts: 1,798Member Uncommon

    EVE works because if you die you lose your stuff period no exceptions.  It doesn't matter if your killed by a player or NPC guard everything you have on you is gone unless it's insured and even than that doesn't cover everything.  Imagine the crying it would cause if in a fantasy game people who lost faction with a NPC group would lose all their equipped gear if killed by those NPC's.

    Current fantasy open world PVP games give to much advantage to the ganker.  There isn't a one of them that really makes a justice system worth it's name.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 26,200Member Rare
    Originally posted by Jemcrystal
     

    Because there are few to none PvE mmorpg's being made and most games are boring clones narrowing down PvE options to nill.  I'll try a pretty PvP mmo because I simply have no where else to go.   But I wont stay and I sure as fuck wont like it.

    mmorpg is your only entertainment?

  • PAL-18PAL-18 AnachronoxPosts: 818Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
    Originally posted by Purutzil

    I think you bring up the main issue. Those "PvPers" aren't looking for just pvp, they want to be griefing others and just generally screwing over others for no reason at all. To me, THIS is the huge issue with open world pvp. Without reason to behave it just becomes a griefing fest, those who have an advantage will use it to win every fight they can against those with no chance. Its not pvp at all, a 2 year old can do the stuff those "hardcore pvpers" try to push as being good.

    Which is an amusing coincidence, since those "PvPers" who only play to ruin other people's time have the mentality of a 2 years old.

    But these berzerkers,maniacs,outlaws ,wackos,whatever people wants to call them are part of the fantasy worlds in books,movies ,stories,games etc.

    They also need to have somekind of part of the game and chance to gain wealth,problem is the game/community itself if its treats them like they were King Arthurs.

     

     

    So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.
    By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014.
    **On the radar:http://cyberpunk.net/**

  • 3-4thElf3-4thElf Elftown, MEPosts: 489Member
    Originally posted by PAL-18
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
    Originally posted by Purutzil

    I think you bring up the main issue. Those "PvPers" aren't looking for just pvp, they want to be griefing others and just generally screwing over others for no reason at all. To me, THIS is the huge issue with open world pvp. Without reason to behave it just becomes a griefing fest, those who have an advantage will use it to win every fight they can against those with no chance. Its not pvp at all, a 2 year old can do the stuff those "hardcore pvpers" try to push as being good.

    Which is an amusing coincidence, since those "PvPers" who only play to ruin other people's time have the mentality of a 2 years old.

    But these berzerkers,maniacs,outlaws ,wackos,whatever people wants to call them are part of the fantasy worlds in books,movies ,stories,games etc.

    They also need to have somekind of part of the game and chance to gain wealth,problem is the game/community itself if its treats them like they were King Arthurs.

     

     

    The problem they're afraid of wouldn't need a 'system'.

    It works itself out and has in most every sandbox ffa game of note. I mean bad things happened in UO & EvE, but not the kind of 'high level ganking low level' they decry. Why? Because their only experience with open pvp has been in pve heavy games with pvp tacked on.

    If you're a ruthless solo ganker, then armies find you and make your game time tough.

    If you're a gank squad, there will be a bigger squad to hunt you guys down and make it harder for you to find people.

    If you're alone and you lose a 1 v 1 fight, then you didn't get ganked. You lost a fight.

    It's hard to explain the reality of a ffa sandbox game to people who only fear 'what ifs' and these crazy nonexistent scenarios in their heads.

    Sure the games I keep referencing are old games that had a lack of pve content. That's what I like about this post; what if we had a strong pve environment and a good ffa sandbox in one modern game.

    EvE's a great example of how the two can and do work together. But I don't really care about space travel personally, and if I'm running a ship I want a community on the ship. But how many people will log into a game and check sensors and systems in a militaristic fashion like real space travel would require?

    I mean I would.

    a yo ho ho

  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard La BarrePosts: 5,166Member Epic
    Originally posted by PAL-18
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
    Originally posted by Purutzil

    I think you bring up the main issue. Those "PvPers" aren't looking for just pvp, they want to be griefing others and just generally screwing over others for no reason at all. To me, THIS is the huge issue with open world pvp. Without reason to behave it just becomes a griefing fest, those who have an advantage will use it to win every fight they can against those with no chance. Its not pvp at all, a 2 year old can do the stuff those "hardcore pvpers" try to push as being good.

    Which is an amusing coincidence, since those "PvPers" who only play to ruin other people's time have the mentality of a 2 years old.

    But these berzerkers,maniacs,outlaws ,wackos,whatever people wants to call them are part of the fantasy worlds in books,movies ,stories,games etc.

    They also need to have somekind of part of the game and chance to gain wealth,problem is the game/community itself if its treats them like they were King Arthurs.

    Yes, but in all those fantasy worlds, books, movies, games, etc... they have the same risk than anyone else to be defeated, and to die.

    The psychopaths in MMORPGs have zero risk, they just respawn and do it again.

    BIG (HUGE) difference.

    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn in Star Wars. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that nor does the ability to write.


    CPU: Core I7 6700k (4.4ghz) - GPU: ASUS R9 290x-DC2 OC 4Gb DDR5 (1150 mhz core) - RAM: 16GB Kingston HyperX Savage DDR4 3000 - Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z170X-UD3 - PSU: Antec TruePower New 750W - Storage: Kingston SV300 480gb SSD and 2x1TB WD Velociraptor HDDs (Raid 0) - Main display: Philips 40PUK6809 4K 3D TV - Second display: Hannspree 23" Full HD LCD monitor - Soundcard: Pioneer VSX-322 AV Receiver HDMI linked with the GPU and the TV, with Jamo S 426 HS 3 5.0 speakers and Pioneer S-21W subwoofer - OS: Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bits.

  • TorikTorik London, ONPosts: 2,343Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by 3-4thElf

    If you're a ruthless solo ganker, then armies find you and make your game time tough.

    If you're a gank squad, there will be a bigger squad to hunt you guys down and make it harder for you to find people.

    If that were true, there would not be need for this discussion.  The reality is that the in-game solutions are laughably inadequate and most of the time amount to barely a slap on the wrist.  Heck, a lot of the time the 'punishment' is the equivalent to a parent punishing a kid by telling him to play video games and eat ice cream. 

    If a FFA PvP game actually had a meaningful punishment system then I would give it a try.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 26,200Member Rare
    Originally posted by PAL-18
     

    But these berzerkers,maniacs,outlaws ,wackos,whatever people wants to call them are part of the fantasy worlds in books,movies ,stories,games etc.

     

    So? Video games are not books, movies and stories. Players are not true wackos .. they are just playing a game, and what is fun to read about is not fun if you are on the receiving end.

     

  • PAL-18PAL-18 AnachronoxPosts: 818Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
    Originally posted by PAL-18
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
    Originally posted by Purutzil

    I think you bring up the main issue. Those "PvPers" aren't looking for just pvp, they want to be griefing others and just generally screwing over others for no reason at all. To me, THIS is the huge issue with open world pvp. Without reason to behave it just becomes a griefing fest, those who have an advantage will use it to win every fight they can against those with no chance. Its not pvp at all, a 2 year old can do the stuff those "hardcore pvpers" try to push as being good.

    Which is an amusing coincidence, since those "PvPers" who only play to ruin other people's time have the mentality of a 2 years old.

    But these berzerkers,maniacs,outlaws ,wackos,whatever people wants to call them are part of the fantasy worlds in books,movies ,stories,games etc.

    They also need to have somekind of part of the game and chance to gain wealth,problem is the game/community itself if its treats them like they were King Arthurs.

    Yes, but in all those fantasy worlds, books, movies, games, etc... they have the same risk than anyone else to be defeated, and to die.

    The psychopaths in MMORPGs have zero risk, they just respawn and do it again.

    BIG (HUGE) difference.

    Of course they have risk and that risk is other players,who dont buy their stuff anymore (ruined by auction house,fixed by flag which doesnt allow them to use auction house / or some NPC shops etc)

    Other players will share them justice so hard they wont own any land (if theres land control or something similar in the first place)

    No one will team with them (ruined by all kind of finders ,xserver stuff etc)

    etc..

    Its not that hard to make their life hard ,how it should be,but its impossible to do that in games like we have now.

     

    So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.
    By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014.
    **On the radar:http://cyberpunk.net/**

  • PAL-18PAL-18 AnachronoxPosts: 818Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by PAL-18
     

    But these berzerkers,maniacs,outlaws ,wackos,whatever people wants to call them are part of the fantasy worlds in books,movies ,stories,games etc.

     

    So? Video games are not books, movies and stories. Players are not true wackos .. they are just playing a game, and what is fun to read about is not fun if you are on the receiving end.

     

    i think you got it.

    So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.
    By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014.
    **On the radar:http://cyberpunk.net/**

  • ArclanArclan Chicago, ILPosts: 1,513Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
    Yep, as already said many times in this and many other threads, a good PvP MMORPG needs a harsh justice system, and life as a criminal should be a major pain, very difficult, with impossibility to approach any civilized town without being nuked by guards too.


    I can see a cool system where bandits have to bank in some self-made town or npc bandit town that has only the supplies that others bring into it. I can see a partnership forming with the reds and a random carebear where the latter transports supplies from the civilized towns. As I've said before, I wish CCP Games (Eve) would make a fantasy game. Who am I kidding, no partnership would form; the red player would just roll a carebear alt :/



    Originally posted by alyndale
    I think for the sake of this truly heartfelt post in thread that was started by a fan of mmo's that somehow have spun out of control with kill ip madness. I applaud the choice of Tracy Chapman's masterful music to bolster an important issue in today's mmo genre. Thank you Torgrim and a standing O from me to greenreen!I have yet to see a truly large-scale successful pvp-centric mmo. Now, I'm sure one will come. That will be an experience where justice has an inkling of chance to control what, now, is nothing but a gankfest. I've played Lineage 2. That is emotion personified and stress infinitely felt day by day. I even returned to reintroduce myself to one of the most hauntingly beautiful mmo soundtracks in existence. It is arguably still one of the best open world pvp mmo's to have survived 10+ years. My heart was stolen many times there. Yes, and I suppose the madness took me for a time because I found myself hunting down those "animals" that just gave up on their characters and went "purma-red".Outside of Dion one June afternoon, I had a chance to speak to one of the infamous "reds". He was just sitting there in the fields, but apparently no one around that area came near but me. My heart was racing as if this was a real-life encounter and I was going to exact revenge.Bloodly, mindless killing for the sake of low level players. I hit him and he didn't fight back nor did he run, Something stopped me at that moment. I stopped and asked him why he ruined his character. He told me. I shall not go into the details of what he told me, but I can tell you that his story wasn't too different from several infamous characters that roamed dungeons and fields of old Gustin server. I would have to say that some of these players simply project a frustrating reality they seem to have difficulties dealing with in real life.Somehow Gary Jules, "Mad World" comes to mind here. It was so sad. I came across no less than half a dozen individuals with very similar stories; Anger lived out in two worlds...emptiness. "When people run in cirlcles it's a very, very mad world..." I left L 2 after three straight years and 7 days a week grinding, dying, cursing the ganks, whooping it up when my alliance kicked ass and took our first castle, weeping inside when one of my first online fighting friends left because she couldn't take the daily shit, and finally saying good-bye because I had to fight the worst ganker in the history of mankind, cancer. I left L 2 and went to WoW. The world keeps on spinning, but there are people out there that have troubles they show it in the way they attempt to express themselves..we often dislike them--maybe we should stop, "sit and listen"I agree that a truly balanced mmo contains both pve and pvp elements. There needs to be a way to accept both and feel that those that pvp understands that there are consequences. I suppose we need to stick by a justified and solid set of consequences when those angry, silly, and mindless gankers try to hand their bad day to us.I suppose I'm an old grizzly bear that actually cares. I look to Archeage and marvel at it's beauty and the possibilities. I wonder however, if the type of "in your face" pvp is going to sink this ship before it leaves it's moorings. We shall see...Alyn


    Interesting post, Alyn. Thanks for sharing.

    Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
    In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit

  • 3-4thElf3-4thElf Elftown, MEPosts: 489Member
    Originally posted by Torik
    Originally posted by 3-4thElf

    If you're a ruthless solo ganker, then armies find you and make your game time tough.

    If you're a gank squad, there will be a bigger squad to hunt you guys down and make it harder for you to find people.

    If that were true, there would not be need for this discussion.  The reality is that the in-game solutions are laughably inadequate and most of the time amount to barely a slap on the wrist.  Heck, a lot of the time the 'punishment' is the equivalent to a parent punishing a kid by telling him to play video games and eat ice cream. 

    If a FFA PvP game actually had a meaningful punishment system then I would give it a try.

    It is true. There's only one game with it now, but that's just due to the other ones getting super dated graphically.

    EvE's very real. 

    It exists.

    The way players regulate how all aspects of the game is played is a bit much for new comers to grasp, but that's not the game's fault.

    The problem isn't gankers, it's people making things up.

    a yo ho ho

  • TorikTorik London, ONPosts: 2,343Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by 3-4thElf
    Originally posted by Torik
    Originally posted by 3-4thElf

    If you're a ruthless solo ganker, then armies find you and make your game time tough.

    If you're a gank squad, there will be a bigger squad to hunt you guys down and make it harder for you to find people.

    If that were true, there would not be need for this discussion.  The reality is that the in-game solutions are laughably inadequate and most of the time amount to barely a slap on the wrist.  Heck, a lot of the time the 'punishment' is the equivalent to a parent punishing a kid by telling him to play video games and eat ice cream. 

    If a FFA PvP game actually had a meaningful punishment system then I would give it a try.

    It is true. There's only one game with it now, but that's just due to the other ones getting super dated graphically.

    EvE's very real. 

    It exists.

    The way players regulate how all aspects of the game is played is a bit much for new comers to grasp, but that's not the game's fault.

    The problem isn't gankers, it's people making things up.

    I played EVE at multiple points over its existence and I find the punishment system to be laughable.  It might work on the meta scales of alliances and sov ownership but it does little for the casual players.  A dedicated ganker cannot really be seriously affected by any of the punishment systems in the game since they are so easy to work around.   Heck, It's a game where suicide ganking is a well established method for players to make money. 

  • TorgrimTorgrim GothenburgPosts: 2,088Member

    Didn't knew my drunk rambling would create a 21 pages discussion, really fun reading, great ideas and thoughts on the matter.

     

     

    If it's not broken, you are not innovating.

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