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EVE online is losing players, many lost in past year

mrmelonimrmeloni exeterPosts: 227Member

CCP used to reguarly release subscription numbers for EVE online

In February 2013, EVE Online reached over 500,000 subscribers

This was the last time CCP would reveal subscription numbers

In March 2011, CCP announced EVE online has over 360,000 subscriptions, at the same time, they recorded 63,170 players logged in to the game at one time. They would often hit the 55-60k mark at primetime on weekends.

These days, EVE online will see a max of about 40k players during primetime at weekends. During weekday, it's much less, 30,000 or so.

There's not a single word from CCP these days about sub numbers, or attempts to break the old concurrent user record of 61,170 players. They are not even trying to break it. Why would they do that? Because they will look bad when they fall hugely short of the previous record. They know they've lost a lot of players and don't want to look bad.

If in march 2011 they had 360k subs and made the record at that time with 63k concurrent users, and now they only get 40k users at prime time, how many subs would you estimate they have right now? I would guess around 250 to 300k, the 250k being the most likely and the 300k being very generous. That's about 200k less subs than February 2013, a drop from 500k to 300k or less.

These past few months the average user count has dropped faster than usual, an article on themitani website explains this in detail.

Griefing of players in hi-sec is rampant and nullsec is all controlled by a single group, many of whom seem bored with not having anyone to fight so many of them have formed organised groups who terrorize and grief players in hi-sec, adding to the problem.

During this past year, dust was a flop and they pulled the plug on World of Darkness, laying off many employees. http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/06/06/eve-online-layoffs/ Many developers also left EVE online to work on other games and there was even a story in the press from an ex CCP developer that shed some light on what has been going on http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jun/05/world-of-darkness-the-inside-story-mmo-ccp-white-wolf

TDLR EVE is dying, for real this time. It was a good run.

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Comments

  • DamonVileDamonVile Vancouver, BCPosts: 4,818Member
    Why have people suddenly got such a hard on for hating on eve?
  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,865Member Uncommon

    Incarna in 2011 was their last successful expansion, since then the game is struggling to increase the player base or just add any (expanding) content at all.

    The 500k mark is just a marketing gimmick as they added the numbers from chinese re-release.

    Imo, the issues with development direction/management go long back to 2008(icelandic crisis and Quantum Rise failed expansion).

    Current EVE is a very sad reminiscent of it's former glory...it was a blast, alas nothing lasts forever.

    EDIT: I am in no way agreeing with OP, the numbers are off and ridiculous.

    The game isn't dying, it is just a sailing ship without a captain...or a crew...

  • AeonbladesAeonblades Home, GAPosts: 2,083Member
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Why have people suddenly got such a hard on for hating on eve?

    I think it has to do with all the horror stories of players scamming/cheating/harassing others with no action taken by the company that owns the game. Basically in the eyes of most gamers, CCP condones cheating stealing and lying, which isn't going to sit well with most people.

     

    Me personally, I dislike the community of Eve, but the game is solid. There is nothing wrong with the game at all, it's just mismanaged.

    Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
    Have played: You name it
    If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,672Member Uncommon

    The OP is a great example of one of the reasons why MMO devs don't give out sub numbers. As soon as they stop giving them out the assumption is that the game is losing players. "Many lost in past year." I must've missed that memo. ;)

     

    The PCU records were often the result of multiple events at the same time in EVE, and were in no way indicative of peak averages at the time. If they were, the records probably wouldn't have been such a big deal. I think several of the records were on days when there was a tournament going on at the same time as a lot of activity in game. PCU records were always the result of player activity. CCP "aren't even trying to break it" because, to the best of my knowledge, they never did.

     

    Anyway, it's July. EVE players are always less active in July. They're probably on a beach somewhere with their families or BBQing in their backyard. My educated guess is that the same is true for most MMOs. 

     

    Whatever the case, welcome back from your 3.5-year hiatus. 

     

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
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  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,865Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by LoktofeitAnyway, it's July. EVE players are always less active in July. They're probably on a beach somewhere with their families or BBQing in their backyard. My educated guess is that the same is true for most MMOs. 

    So many more are at beach than July last year...? :-P

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,219Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Why have people suddenly got such a hard on for hating on <insert the game of the week>?

    I can't figure this one out either. I don't see EVE being the kind of game I would like, but for what it delivers how could it not be considered good?

    The only thing I really fault CCP for is sometimes caving to power ploys buy some player groups. Maybe it's not really as bad as it appears from the outside, but it seems like it sometimes. The cash shop thing (monoclegate) comes to mind. I think they let themselves be bullied.

  • WickershamWickersham Mississauga, ONPosts: 2,379Member

    If there is a drop, which I've not noticed, It's more likely due to the fact that the cost of PLEX has gone up from 550,000,000 to 800,000,000 in one year which might mean less alts payed for with PLEX.

    Also, multiple character training with PLEX means that if you were inclined to train an alt you don't need to have 2 accounts.

    From my perspective the real danger to eve online is CCP's modern notion that end game for eve is null sec and their attempt to get people to move out there.  When someone pees in the pool you have two choices - move to the other end of the pool (null sec) or get out of the pool (quit the game).  Be very careful CCP.

    "The liberties and resulting economic prosperity that YOU take for granted were granted by those "dead guys"

  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKPosts: 8,553Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Loktofeit

    The OP is a great example of one of the reasons why MMO devs don't give out sub numbers. As soon as they stop giving them out the assumption is that the game is losing players. "Many lost in past year." I must've missed that memo. ;)

     

    The PCU records were often the result of multiple events at the same time in EVE, and were in no way indicative of peak averages at the time. If they were, the records probably wouldn't have been such a big deal. I think several of the records were on days when there was a tournament going on at the same time as a lot of activity in game. PCU records were always the result of player activity. CCP "aren't even trying to break it" because, to the best of my knowledge, they never did.

     

    Anyway, it's July. EVE players are always less active in July. They're probably on a beach somewhere with their families or BBQing in their backyard. My educated guess is that the same is true for most MMOs. 

     

    Whatever the case, welcome back from your 3.5-year hiatus. 

     

     

    I agree on the PCU records not being indicative of the peak average users, and depending on which MMO sometimes not even indicative of overall population.

    PCU varies depending on seasons, expansions, and lots of other factors that are game specific too.

    My guesstimate - EvE is here to stay for a LONG time

  • jpnzjpnz SydneyPosts: 3,529Member

    The 'it is Summer!' excuse doesn't really work if you look at the trends though.

    http://themittani.com/features/graphing-eve-online-history-retribution-kronos

    Doesn't look that great.

    Gdemami -
    Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  • kosackosac Bakov nad JizerouPosts: 189Member Uncommon
    its easy its not for ppl its just for few multibox maniacs... and if CCP wants make something to interest new players there is CSM who stops it.. EvE players dont want Walking in the Station etc its shame.. :) i was EvE player but game is not growing as i want so i left .. 
  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,865Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by kosac

    and if CCP wants make something to interest new players there is CSM who stops it.. EvE players dont want Walking in the Station etc its shame.. :) i was EvE player but game is not growing as i want so i left .. 

    Good example how fast "listening to players" can ruin your business...

  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko RotterdamPosts: 3,845Member Uncommon

    Yes, EVE may be losing players.

    So is WoW and just about any other MMO that has been released, ever.

     

    Will EVE last a thousand years ? Probably not. I doubt that EVE will last another 10 years, but it's not entirely impossible...

     

    All MMO's eventually die, but at least EVE has been one of the great success stories in the western MMO market. EVE remains as enduring proof that catering to a well-defined niche market can be a profitable business model.

     

     

  • Solar_ProphetSolar_Prophet Columbus, OHPosts: 878Member Uncommon

    If there is a loss, then it's most likely because the game has stagnated. CCP had a much bigger vision for their game, but unfortunately the narrow minded player base weren't having any of it. They lacked the vision and wisdom to understand that the WIS content which was released was merely the tip of the iceberg, a quick sample of things to come. The game could have had avatar-based content rivaling that of the ship content... but alas, the players whined, stamped their feet, and cried about their internet spaceships, and CCP sacrificed their vision of turning EVE into a fully realized virtual universe instead of just a series of black, empty areas which generally amount to no more than dots on a map.

    Also, don't forget that training several characters on one account is possible now. Since it's considered an additional paid feature on an account it probably isn't factored into the number of subscribers, and a reasonable amount of people probably dropped extraneous accounts in favor of having all their characters on one.

    AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!

  • mrmelonimrmeloni exeterPosts: 227Member

    I never said EVE was going to die soon, just that it's dying. It will be a slow death.

    Makes sense why the sub numbers suddenly jumped to 500k, CCP included the china server subs into that number, even though a sub on that server costs a fraction per month of a sub on the main server.

    Did they also include dust players into the 500k number? Either way just forget the 500k number because it's not actual subs of the EVE online server.

    To those who say the record means nothing. They used to hit 50k, nearly 60k every primetime without trying. Now they are lucky to get 40k. That's a big drop in players.

    The link posted by the poster above explains it in more detail and proves my point that EVE is losing players.

    If you read the guardian news article by ex CCP dev Nick Blood, you'll see that CCP are looking for positive press, to make them stand out about other game companies in a favorable way, they don't want negative press, which is exactly what they get if they reveal that EVE online subscribers are a lot less than they announced last time. They've decided it better to keep quiet about the numbers rather than have news articles about how EVE online is finally losing players after ten years of reported higher sub numbers every year.

  • Agent_JosephAgent_Joseph SarajevoPosts: 1,070Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by kosac
    its easy its not for ppl its just for few multibox maniacs... and if CCP wants make something to interest new players there is CSM who stops it.. EvE players dont want Walking in the Station etc its shame.. :) i was EvE player but game is not growing as i want so i left .. 

    walking in stations is crap,waste of time & resources,CCP are good in  making failed/crapy project

    I am paused 5 years ,after back noticed game is very different and friendly for new players , I am retired my old character(50+mil sp) and now playing with new one(low sp but can do pvp stuff very good ,same as my old 50 mil sp character) ,just for re-learning how play game and use stuff.After meet and making friendships in game ,I am stick with main new  character.

    EVE is very improved  & game growing all time nice,than I have no idea what about you talking

    Yes,EVE dying last 11 years and have to dying in next decades .

     

     

     

     

    only EVE is real MMO...but I am impressive with TSW

  • PhaserlightPhaserlight Boca Raton, FLPosts: 867Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by SpottyGekko

     All MMO's eventually die

    Evidence has shown otherwise.

    To quote Dr. Ralph Norcio, (my graduate program advisor),  "corporations can drink from the fountain of youth".  Look at how Nintendo started out producing playing cards, etc.  I think the same thing applies to MMORPGs.  The question is not 'when will this MMO die', but 'will this MMO continue reinventing itself while there are empowered, interested parties'?

    /2c image

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  • AsariashaAsariasha Somewhere inPosts: 218Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by mrmeloni

    I never said EVE was going to die soon, just that it's dying. It will be a slow death.

    Makes sense why the sub numbers suddenly jumped to 500k, CCP included the china server subs into that number, even though a sub on that server costs a fraction per month of a sub on the main server.

    Did they also include dust players into the 500k number? Either way just forget the 500k number because it's not actual subs of the EVE online server.

    To those who say the record means nothing. They used to hit 50k, nearly 60k every primetime without trying. Now they are lucky to get 40k. That's a big drop in players.

    The link posted by the poster above explains it in more detail and proves my point that EVE is losing players.

    If you read the guardian news article by ex CCP dev Nick Blood, you'll see that CCP are looking for positive press, to make them stand out about other game companies in a favorable way, they don't want negative press, which is exactly what they get if they reveal that EVE online subscribers are a lot less than they announced last time. They've decided it better to keep quiet about the numbers rather than have news articles about how EVE online is finally losing players after ten years of reported higher sub numbers every year.

     

    Talking about a slow death is a bit exaggerated.

     

    Eve Online is a 11 year old online game. Being a niche game, Eve Online never managed to reach player numbers like WoW or other casual friendly online games, but I doubt CCP Games ever aimed to become the king of MMOs. More of importance is that CCP Games managed to constantly increase player numbers for almost a decade by continuously developing their vision of a huge sandbox universe.

     

    I think Eve Online simply leaves the phase of growth and enters the stage of maturity. An absolutely normal change when it comes to product lifetime cycles. Who knows, maybe they manage to deliver another state-of-the-art expansion that results in more growth. We will see.

  • ThaneThane berlinPosts: 2,232Member Uncommon

    "uh look mommie, another [enter mmo name here] is dying thread!"

    "I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 20,008Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Asariasha
    Originally posted by mrmeloni

    I never said EVE was going to die soon, just that it's dying. It will be a slow death.

    Makes sense why the sub numbers suddenly jumped to 500k, CCP included the china server subs into that number, even though a sub on that server costs a fraction per month of a sub on the main server.

    Did they also include dust players into the 500k number? Either way just forget the 500k number because it's not actual subs of the EVE online server.

    To those who say the record means nothing. They used to hit 50k, nearly 60k every primetime without trying. Now they are lucky to get 40k. That's a big drop in players.

    The link posted by the poster above explains it in more detail and proves my point that EVE is losing players.

    If you read the guardian news article by ex CCP dev Nick Blood, you'll see that CCP are looking for positive press, to make them stand out about other game companies in a favorable way, they don't want negative press, which is exactly what they get if they reveal that EVE online subscribers are a lot less than they announced last time. They've decided it better to keep quiet about the numbers rather than have news articles about how EVE online is finally losing players after ten years of reported higher sub numbers every year.

     

    Talking about a slow death is a bit exaggerated.

     

    Eve Online is a 11 year old online game. Being a niche game, Eve Online never managed to reach player numbers like WoW or other casual friendly online games, but I doubt CCP Games ever aimed to become the king of MMOs. More of importance is that CCP Games managed to constantly increase player numbers for almost a decade by continuously developing their vision of a huge sandbox universe.

     

    I think Eve Online simply leaves the phase of growth and enters the stage of maturity. An absolutely normal change when it comes to product lifetime cycles. Who knows, maybe they manage to deliver another state-of-the-art expansion that results in more growth. We will see.

    if they could somehow deliver a form of ship to ship or in station combat within the EVE game (not DUST514) I think it would really revitalize the interest, however I think they've discounted that possibility previously.

     

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • QuesaQuesa Sacramento, CAPosts: 1,246Member

    I can't answer for highSec but nullSec population revolves entirely around the massive quadrant wars.  Right now there isn't anything happening and it's pretty typical for summer to be 'lower' compared to the rest of the year.  Last year there was a lot of content created with the HBC drama and the Fountain War.  You can see increases in activity when wars start, which gradually drops and then further when wars stops.  This year there is no big summer conflict to keep activity up.  We'll see if anything kicks up during September/October.  Part of the issues is that Dominion made sov too easy to defend, which is why all the activity has been pushed to the really large wars.

    I have one account active but not logging in except to change skill training.  During big wars I have 3-4 accounts active and usually at least 2 logged on for most of the time I'm active.

  • apocolusterapocoluster newport news, VAPosts: 1,321Member Uncommon
    God I hope not. Keep them ja ckasses...err people playing that game and not dispersing out and grooning other games

    No matter how cynical you become, its never enough to keep up - Lily Tomlin

  • Rhodan1970Rhodan1970 privatePosts: 1Member
    Originally posted by apocoluster
    God I hope not. Keep them ja ckasses...err people playing that game and not dispersing out and grooning other games

    That pretty much sums it up, Eve or rather CCP is held hostage by bunch of jerks. As much as I love the game and loved playing it over the years there is no denying that Eve has become the next World of Roguecraft, with hotdrops, blops etc. Were as pvp corps used to be the defacto environment to learn about your ship and fleet operations, they have deteriorated in a one-size-fits-all alliance/coalition bullying factory.

    Were as in the past those who did not wish to pvp were relative safe in hi sec, these days the beavis and butthead alliances make a sport of blowing up defenseless miners in hi sec. Why? Because they can and CCP is impotent , muttering something about it 'all being in game mechanics', while the blatant meta gaming is taking place right under their nose.

    Who in their right mind would pay real money for the pleasure of being held ransom by pirate corp #141 who demand in game money (( billions for the uninitiated ) or they will make it impossible for you to enjoy the game you paid for in the first place. Interesting enough the nationality of said pirates seems to be the same nationality that are selling ISK for euros/dollars.

    I understand that someone in their insane mind is cultivating this as being part of the 'sandbox experience' maybe it does, but all I see it accomplish is working as a massive deterrent for new players, who sure as hell are not going to pay real money for the dubious pleasure of being insulted, ridiculed, extorted and bullied.

    Regarding those numbers, that 500K, impressive but I wonder how many multi accounts those are. Everytime one of those players had enough the counter goes down with 2,3,4 accounts a time.

    I love this game for what it once was, I will likely keep playing it until someone pulls the plug but that doesn't make me blind to the fact it has has attracted the scum of the MMO community and CCP obviously not willing to step up to their responsibility. Eve has the become the stomping grounds for the elite few bullies.

  • avelarthavelarth istanbulPosts: 14Member Uncommon

    'EVE' is not friendly for new players, new players is importand for an mmo. a new player spend months for a ship and 10 year skill trained and experienced troll coming to destroy all of them. you can gain experiance in pvp but  you'll never be equal, these people skill trained for ages.  

     

    and experianced eve players will say carebear, crybaby or noob. but you shouldnt say to new players while your kingdom is dying.

  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,865Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by avelarth

    and experianced eve players will say carebear, crybaby or noob. but you shouldnt say to new players while your kingdom is dying.

    ...what are they supposed to tell you when you are not listening?

  • Agent_JosephAgent_Joseph SarajevoPosts: 1,070Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by avelarth

    'EVE' is not friendly for new players, new players is importand for an mmo. a new player spend months for a ship and 10 year skill trained and experienced troll coming to destroy all of them. you can gain experiance in pvp but  you'll never be equal, these people skill trained for ages.  

     

    and experianced eve players will say carebear, crybaby or noob. but you shouldnt say to new players while your kingdom is dying.

    you are wrong

    EVE is very friendly game for new players,just , new  players should forget past mmo theme park experience

    skill points are only numbers ,my new character has 11 mil skill point and that character is good and can done every work in yourself  pvp role  as my 50 mil skill point character

    bigger ship , it not mean better ship ,

    most veterans are friendly peoples & they ll help new players,just need ask

    read this before starting misinforming ; https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=350449&find=unread

     

     

    only EVE is real MMO...but I am impressive with TSW

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