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[Interview] Camelot Unchained: The Stat System Revealed

SBFordSBFord Associate Editor - News ManagerThe Land of AZPosts: 16,588MMORPG.COM Staff Uncommon

Today on Twitch, Mark Jacobs and crew at City State Entertainment are unveiling the many systems for their upcoming MMORPG, Camelot Unchained. Today, the first stream is all about the stats system.  We sent CSE some questions in advance, and you can find the answers after the jump.

Read more of Rob Lashley's Camelot Unchained: The Stat System Revealed.

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Associate Editor: MMORPG.com
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Comments

  • MyrdynnMyrdynn Beaumont, CAPosts: 1,516Member Uncommon

    MMORPG.com: Health mentions parts of the body. Will players take more damage based upon where they get hit at? 

    Mark Jacobs: That is one of the things we are going to be experimenting with right from the start. While such systems have been used in pen and paper RPGs forever, they are rare in MMORPGs.  We hope this type of system works as well in the game as it looks like it will on paper. As always though, time will tell. 

     

    yep it was possible in 1997 but so hard to do now...  Asheron's Call 

  • RhoklawRhoklaw Ft. Bliss, TXPosts: 3,483Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Myrdynn

    MMORPG.com: Health mentions parts of the body. Will players take more damage based upon where they get hit at? 

    Mark Jacobs: That is one of the things we are going to be experimenting with right from the start. While such systems have been used in pen and paper RPGs forever, they are rare in MMORPGs.  We hope this type of system works as well in the game as it looks like it will on paper. As always though, time will tell. 

     

    yep it was possible in 1997 but so hard to do now...  Asheron's Call 

    Not to mention Mechwarrior games, but those are a much smaller scale of multiplayer. Actually, I believe America's Army is the only FPS to incorporate specific body damage.

    image

  • AeonbladesAeonblades Home, GAPosts: 2,083Member
    I love it. Especially the respec part. Changing specs on the fly completely removes the need to think and put thought process into your character. These are all steps in the right direction imo.

    Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
    Have played: You name it
    If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  • RhoklawRhoklaw Ft. Bliss, TXPosts: 3,483Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Aeonblades
    I love it. Especially the respec part. Changing specs on the fly completely removes the need to think and put thought process into your character. These are all steps in the right direction imo.

    This is all part of the "instant gratification" syndrome of today's gamers. Things that make a game hard or difficult such as encumbrance, language barriers, actual darkness during night times and walking / running everywhere simply requires patience and dedication. On the fly respecs or a group/dungeon finder and all that friggin lazy ass nonsense is why MMO's are boring as !#%@ now.

    Most people will say, well I don't have 4-8 hours a day to spend gaming and having to spend half that time looking for a group is a waste of time. I say BS, cause that's a raider mentality and possibly a lone wolf. If you are in an active guild, more than likely, you WILL find people to group with. Group / Dungeon finder only made MMO's into a single player game. The last time I played WoW and did a dungeon with a PUG, no one said a damn word, ever. Seriously? I might as well play Skyrim where at least NPCs interact.

    image

  • RazeeksterRazeekster Solon, MEPosts: 2,201Member Uncommon
    Looking forward to this game. The setting and lore are interesting, as are the races, and things they are doing with the game.

    Smile

  • CrusadesCrusades Columbus, OHPosts: 480Member
    Speaking of instant gratification, how long does it take to create a Stat system for mmorpgs? 2 maybe 3 hours? I think Zenimax could probably do it over lunch break. I mean in mmorpgs you can't go wrong.
  • TimothyTierlessTimothyTierless Columnist M, ORPosts: 2,163Member Uncommon
    It's about time we saw an MMO get back to the beginning with a proper stat system.
  • sakersaker harrisburg, PAPosts: 993Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Rhoklaw
    Originally posted by Aeonblades
    I love it. Especially the respec part. Changing specs on the fly completely removes the need to think and put thought process into your character. These are all steps in the right direction imo.

    This is all part of the "instant gratification" syndrome of today's gamers. Things that make a game hard or difficult such as encumbrance, language barriers, actual darkness during night times and walking / running everywhere simply requires patience and dedication. On the fly respecs or a group/dungeon finder and all that friggin lazy ass nonsense is why MMO's are boring as !#%@ now.

    Most people will say, well I don't have 4-8 hours a day to spend gaming and having to spend half that time looking for a group is a waste of time. I say BS, cause that's a raider mentality and possibly a lone wolf. If you are in an active guild, more than likely, you WILL find people to group with. Group / Dungeon finder only made MMO's into a single player game. The last time I played WoW and did a dungeon with a PUG, no one said a damn word, ever. Seriously? I might as well play Skyrim where at least NPCs interact.

    well and truly said!

  • gylnnegylnne South Hutchinson, KSPosts: 320Member
    Originally posted by Rhoklaw
    Originally posted by Aeonblades
    I love it. Especially the respec part. Changing specs on the fly completely removes the need to think and put thought process into your character. These are all steps in the right direction imo.

    This is all part of the "instant gratification" syndrome of today's gamers. Things that make a game hard or difficult such as encumbrance, language barriers, actual darkness during night times and walking / running everywhere simply requires patience and dedication. On the fly respecs or a group/dungeon finder and all that friggin lazy ass nonsense is why MMO's are boring as !#%@ now.

    Most people will say, well I don't have 4-8 hours a day to spend gaming and having to spend half that time looking for a group is a waste of time. I say BS, cause that's a raider mentality and possibly a lone wolf. If you are in an active guild, more than likely, you WILL find people to group with. Group / Dungeon finder only made MMO's into a single player game. The last time I played WoW and did a dungeon with a PUG, no one said a damn word, ever. Seriously? I might as well play Skyrim where at least NPCs interact.

    Agree

  • lindhskylindhsky Helsingborg, FLPosts: 129Member Uncommon

    I agree!

    Arrows showing where to go exactly, on the fly respecs, details over the mobs heads to show if it is a tough mob or not, no death penalties at all, every character should easily be able to have exactly what another player has, portals everywhere etc etc. All can level crafting to max without effort.

     

    I remember the days when you got famous on your server for being a good tank or a good crafter. In DAOC I played a very defensive specced Paladin that twisted chants like crazy. That made you a good tank. And since you were a good tank you could not instantly respec to DPS when it was time for PvP so I played the defensive role of protecting the clerics with the ability guard. Not the most fun role but still it was what that character was famous for and good at. Most gamers today would demand to be able to respec for PVP.

     

    I remember in some games when it actually hurt to get killed instead of now when you can suicide your way through some dungeons instead of having your group to go back to pick you up.

     

    Since everyone want instant PvP and instant Dungeongroups everything is so impersonal. You face one good opponent on the battlefield but then never again because he is on another server. You don't play with the same people, you dont face the same enemies. It is just not the same anymore.

     

    Same goes with you should get points and rewards for everything. I had a blast in Warhammer until I noticed that the armies started to avoid eachother. Why? Well because it gave more points/rewards to take an empty keep that was not defended. So the enemies took ours, we took theirs. Got our points/rewards. Then we took back ours and they took back theirs. I hated it but points are more important than having fun so when you can get them that easily people rather have a boring night without fights than a good one with fights. The reason I quit that game.

     

    I hope this game won't reward people for taking empty keeps. If you kill your enemies you should get rewarded. If you kill them defending a keep then give them even more points.

     

    Long rant from me, but I agree with what you wrote. :)

     
  • TamanousTamanous Edmonton, ABPosts: 2,125Member Uncommon

    LOL.

     

    Andrew mentioned possible diminished returns for total impact of large groups over smaller ones. HOLY SHIT SHEET developers! NOW is when you talk about this finally? 15 years into mmorpgs? I've been screaming this concept for years!

     

    It is 100% a pen on paper rpg mechanic that's been around for decades! Line of sight rules cover this and mmos haven't figured this out yet? It is a critical rule for any pnp rpg game. A fundamental core ****ing rule!

     

    You stay sassy!

  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKPosts: 8,506Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Rhoklaw
    Originally posted by Myrdynn

    MMORPG.com: Health mentions parts of the body. Will players take more damage based upon where they get hit at? 

    Mark Jacobs: That is one of the things we are going to be experimenting with right from the start. While such systems have been used in pen and paper RPGs forever, they are rare in MMORPGs.  We hope this type of system works as well in the game as it looks like it will on paper. As always though, time will tell. 

     

    yep it was possible in 1997 but so hard to do now...  Asheron's Call 

    Not to mention Mechwarrior games, but those are a much smaller scale of multiplayer. Actually, I believe America's Army is the only FPS to incorporate specific body damage.

    Mechwarrior is a shooter sim - lots of shooter games have "body part" damage

    Heck even Defiance has critical areas on bodies that apply crit damage when targeted.

     

    I think what's missing is an RPG (non-shooter) with meaningful body part targeting - if this was ever taken to the next level, games could do away with Hit Points entirely.

    But that's a different discussion.

     

  • TamanousTamanous Edmonton, ABPosts: 2,125Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DMKano
    Originally posted by Rhoklaw
    Originally posted by Myrdynn

    MMORPG.comHealth mentions parts of the body. Will players take more damage based upon where they get hit at? 

    Mark Jacobs: That is one of the things we are going to be experimenting with right from the start. While such systems have been used in pen and paper RPGs forever, they are rare in MMORPGs.  We hope this type of system works as well in the game as it looks like it will on paper. As always though, time will tell. 

     

    yep it was possible in 1997 but so hard to do now...  Asheron's Call 

    Not to mention Mechwarrior games, but those are a much smaller scale of multiplayer. Actually, I believe America's Army is the only FPS to incorporate specific body damage.

    Mechwarrior is a shooter sim - lots of shooter games have "body part" damage

    Heck even Defiance has critical areas on bodies that apply crit damage when targeted.

     

    I think what's missing is an RPG (non-shooter) with meaningful body part targeting - if this was ever taken to the next level, games could do away with Hit Points entirely.

    But that's a different discussion.

     

     

    I've played the "no hitpoint" concept in some smaller pnp rpg games. I'd actually like it tried in a mmo as well and have suggested it in the past. Lotro has some debuff mechanics that I thought interesting layered onto to their traditional system. I've suggested on the CU site that this be looked into.

     

    Instead of hitpoints, damage could simply be debuff based connected to the type of incoming damage. Your weapon of choice could have logically associated debuffs that impact what your characters does all the way up to unconsciousness or even death. Healers would instead be healing to counter such penalties on others. Healing abilities would be far more complex and varied instead of direct heal, delayed heal, HoT, shield, etc. If a healer saw someone on fire they would have to use the specific healing ability to counter it instead of the same old heal they spammed 5000 times before.

     

    Attacks can also very interesting and complex associated with the type of weapon and the damage it causes. Slashing a sword will nearly always result in trauma far different than being hit by a mace. Games come close to this with elemental damage but the concept could be spread over far more varied attacks and weapon systems.

     

    Honestly I see zero reason for health at all. Nothing is life reflects well upon a hit point system. A Blue whale will still die instantly if it's heart receives deadly trauma just the same as a mouse. If the weapon is to scale the result is similar. Everyone has 100% total health potential. It is not a number. You are healthy, ailing or dead. Simple as that. What does what to you is what matters.

     
     

    You stay sassy!

  • Solar_ProphetSolar_Prophet Columbus, OHPosts: 875Member Uncommon

    Because nothing says 'fun' like having to reroll a character from scratch because the build you wanted to try didn't work out, or because the developers nerfed a certain build or play style.

    There's nothing 'challenging' about archaic, short-sighted game systems which for the most part have been eradicated, and rightfully so. Said systems add tedium and actively discourage and penalize experimentation by all but those with tremendous amounts of time on their hands. Game content should be the source of challenge, not obtuse and unfriendly game mechanics.

    There's nothing lazy about having an understandable and intuitive skill system which actively encourages people to try new things.

    AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!

  • Teh_AxiTeh_Axi HalifaxPosts: 380Member
    Originally posted by Solar_Prophet

    There's nothing lazy about having an understandable and intuitive skill system which actively encourages people to try new things.

    Everything about it is lazy because it doesn't need to be anything more than that, Lazy game design made for lazy gamers.

  • CaldrinCaldrin CwmbranPosts: 4,533Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Aeonblades
    I love it. Especially the respec part. Changing specs on the fly completely removes the need to think and put thought process into your character. These are all steps in the right direction imo.

    totally agree.

  • FanOfSupermanFanOfSuperman Burlington, VTPosts: 137Member

    I love most of what I am seeing/reading/hearing about this game so far! I am a huge fan of all things Camelot related, i.e. Arthur, Merlin, Morgana, Knights of the Round Table, etc. I was a huge fan of the show Merlin and even enjoyed the show Camelot somewhat before Starz prematurely axed it (like they have a nasty habit of doing).

    However, my only issue with this game is that it is strictly RvR based and that there is no PvE. Don't get me wrong, I love me some RvR and really miss RvR in Warhammer Online (which is possibly the most fun I've ever had in an MMO) -- but sometimes I need a break from it and simply want to quest in a PvE environment for a bit. Change is often a good thing and PvE can sometimes provide a much needed break from constant RvR gameplay, while at the same time not having to temporarily leave the game altogether.

    Case in point, I believe one of the things that hindered the growth of Warhammer Online is its terrible lack of a PvE campaign. Many players that I knew would leave the game to go play others when they were tired of RvR and were craving something different. Some never came back.

    I realize what Camelot Unchained is trying to shoot for, but I really wonder if the game is segregating itself by going this route and may limit their playerbase this way?!

    I was a PvE player before a PvP player as were most of us. I didn't fall in love with PvP by immediately joining a PvP-centric MMO. I developed that love by easing into it via games with a PvE side to them.

    I question if Camelot Unchained may turn away some players or limit themselves to new players thus hurting its playerbase because of this?

     

    Edit: formatting

  • potebpoteb HjortshøjPosts: 1Member
    Originally posted by Aeonblades
    I love it. Especially the respec part. Changing specs on the fly completely removes the need to think and put thought process into your character. These are all steps in the right direction imo.

    I disagree.

    Sad to hear about the respec. It's too old school. I love the way GW2 respecs work, where you pay some gold at a vendor to respec. Meaning you can't do it in the field.

    I've never put so much thought into specs as I did in GW2. And there is total freedom to experiment with different play styles. This will be impossible with hard-to-get-by respecs.

    I HATED the way it worked in DAoC, just hated it.

  • dlunasdlunas Fayetteville, ARPosts: 206Member

    Well, this is the game I want to beta...or alpha if there's an opening.

     

    Love the players comments on here, looks like I'm not the only old school gamer that thinks a little of today's accessibility doesn't mean we should have to sacrifice the difficulty of the old games.  Oh, to have the chance at being a renowned crafter, enchanter, beast tamer/breeder, etc.  A chance to be a thing, have an identity.

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