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Elder Scrolls Online: Panel - The Future of ESO

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Comments

  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKPosts: 8,539Member Uncommon

    Preface - I am not talking about ESO here - just a hypothetical failing p2p MMO

    You cannot keep a game P2P if your subs dip below a operationally profitable threshold.

    Its simply impossible from a business perspective.

    You either figure out how to make profits via sub model , go F2P (done right not predatory f2p) or shut the game down.

    No MMO can afford to run at a loss for a long time. 

    The problem with P2P games is retention and playerbase growth - as the only profit is from the sub. F2P games have infinitely more options in turning a profit.

    From a Dev perspective - P2P is inflexible and unless you have a steady playerbase that makes the game profitable impossible to maintain with declining subs

     

  • TheQuietGamerTheQuietGamer brightonPosts: 317Member
    Originally posted by DMKano

    Preface - I am not talking about ESO here - just a hypothetical failing p2p MMO

    You cannot keep a game P2P if your subs dip below a operationally profitable threshold.

    Its simply impossible from a business perspective.

    You either figure out how to make profits via sub model , go F2P (done right not predatory f2p) or shut the game down.

    No MMO can afford to run at a loss for a long time. 

    The problem with P2P games is retention and playerbase growth - as the only profit is from the sub. F2P games have infinitely more options in turning a profit.

    From a Dev perspective - P2P is inflexible and unless you have a steady playerbase that makes the game profitable impossible to maintain with declining subs

     

    And I would imagine that most modern AAA subscription mmo's are designed with a view to churning maximum profit from sales and subscriptions within the first few months and switching to F2P once subs dip below a certain level.  Projections on this basis must form part of the initial feasibility.  

  • tixylixtixylix gfff, TNPosts: 1,208Member Uncommon

    I want them to turn it into a sandbox like how TES games have always been, then I will return. 

    Also open world PVP is a must, right now you cannot even see the enemy faction in the world...

  • TamanousTamanous Edmonton, ABPosts: 2,126Member Uncommon

    DMKano

    That is entirely my fear for any large budget mmo. With the exception of Wow nearly every mmo in history that is/was known for it's dedicated community (long term player base) was smaller budget games targeting the exact audience it aimed for.

     

    Today's f2p rotating door mmos face massive challenges trying to secure a solid community foundation or simply cannot support them. Often their core systems prevent this.

     

    I have zero idea if some or even any of the new upcoming indie mmos will succeed but simply looking at a game like CU in it's development clearly shows how fundamental core game systems are being engineered to facilitate community growth. Most large budget mmos over the last 10 years slap in the prerequisite, cut and paste guild mechanics and go no further. Every other system other than that is designed to separate players from each other into smaller and smaller groups. It is not coincidence that community based game systems often are exactly the opposite in effect compared to f2p systems designed for cash generation. F2p systems fundamentally are designed for exclusion, not inclusion.

    You stay sassy!

  • Sector13Sector13 New Providence, PAPosts: 687Member
    People here have some twisted ideas of what F2P games actually are.  Almost like they never actually play them.  : P
  • kp695304kp695304 coquitlam, BCPosts: 23Member Uncommon

    Open world is great and all, but it is hard to think of a system that would work any better for a MMO with a playerbase as broad and diverse as ESO was bound to have. If they stayed true to the design of the single player games it would of probably done much worse because not all MMO players could appretiate that.

    I find most mmo's need a year or two to really get going and hopefully they will sitck with what they are doing and imporve on it instead of doing what some players suggest and overhauling everyhtin g and going nowhere in the process.

  • CrusadesCrusades Columbus, OHPosts: 480Member
    Well look at the bright side, sunglasses are going to be on sale for a long time.
  • DhampirDhampir Denham Springs, LAPosts: 44Member Uncommon
    I enjoy the game...been playing since launch and will continue .... why u ask? I am in a active guild and I am having fun.....
  • HokieHokie Vancouver Wa.Posts: 1,063Member Uncommon

    If Zenimax wants there to be a future to ESO they should.....continue what they are doing and not listen to all the butt-hurt people who really are complaining about the most asinine things.

    . . .

    . .

    .

    Ohh, wait a second. That is what Zenimax is doing.

     

    "I understand that if I hear any more words come pouring out of your **** mouth, Ill have to eat every fucking chicken in this room."

  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Chicago, ILPosts: 1,514Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by TheQuietGamer
    The whole debacle is a shame.  They are desperately trying to fix it and pull people back in- but I think they lost this battle in the initial feasibility meetings when the decision was made to develop a generic, on-rails mmo with an Elder Scrolls skin, rather than an Elder Scrolls game adapted to support many players.  That is a decision that cannot be undone.  

    The game at it's start was great.  I was instantly addicted.  But went downhill from there.  Low priority on bug fixes.  Balance skills lines that were broken and not fixed first.  Putting PVP bslance in PVE.  Each patch causing more problems.  Releasing without proper testing.  On and on.  

    The game was good, they just treated it like a Skyrim game where players would fix all the bugs with mods.  I really think player added content would save this game.

    "Change is the only constant."

  • Nzscorpion80Nzscorpion80 sydneyPosts: 50Member
    Hope its good pvp news, campaigns are pretty dead except for a few, think they need to merge them. I would like to see other pvp zones like areas of each alliance able to be raided etc, say Falkreath hold where DC & AD could invade to capture etc. 
  • SlyLoKSlyLoK Sugar Grove, VAPosts: 1,548Member Uncommon
    I think one priority is for them to do something about the phasing.. 

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  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid hell, NJPosts: 6,778Member Uncommon
    Looking forward to this Panel discussion. Depending on what they say i will either resubscribe or forget i purchased the game and move on for good.

    image
  • Juice2000Juice2000 weymouthPosts: 92Member

    DMKano you are right but none of us know how many subs are needed by ZOS to keep them happy.  ZOS dont have investors to answer to so as long as they hit their minimum number of subs similar to Square-Enix and FF14 they will just keep trying to win subs back while introducing new content.

     

    Using  FF14 as an example they lost alot of subs after the first month but they stuck with their plan and over the last 6 months have introduced tons of content either bringing in a ton of new players or causing some old players to return. (you can spot new players as they have a symbol over their head if they have not played for more than 40h in game time) The game now is 10 times what is was 1 month after release so theres no reason to think that ESO couldnt do the same. 

     

    Who knows if SWTOR would of gone F2P if EA wasnt telling Bioware what to do.

     
  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKPosts: 8,539Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Juice2000

    DMKano you are right but none of us know how many subs are needed by ZOS to keep them happy.  ZOS dont have investors to answer to so as long as they hit their minimum number of subs similar to Square-Enix and FF14 they will just keep trying to win subs back while introducing new content.

     

    Using  FF14 as an example they lost alot of subs after the first month but they stuck with their plan and over the last 6 months have introduced tons of content either bringing in a ton of new players or causing some old players to return. (you can spot new players as they have a symbol over their head if they have not played for more than 40h in game time) The game now is 10 times what is was 1 month after release so theres no reason to think that ESO couldnt do the same. 

     

    Who knows if SWTOR would of gone F2P if EA wasnt telling Bioware what to do.

     

    It doesn't work - trying to win subs back is a losing battle - no matter what content you add - that $15 barrier to enter just to "check out new content" keep masses of players away for good. Yes you'll get some trickle but once you dip below the operational cost threshold - the battle is lost.

    Subscription games need  a constant core # of players that keep the game afloat - like EvE,FF14 and WoW - they are not winning players back, or have a huge influx of new players - they have a steady profitable state.

     

    Again I have no clue if ESO is making above the figures that they need to maintain current staff and operational costs - but time will tell - we don't need to know.

    If they switch to F2P model, scale down staff to reduce operational costs - we have our answer.

    The proof is in the pudding.

     

  • ZiezoZiezo AmsterdamPosts: 43Member Uncommon
    I don't understand all the complainers..... Love Eso, for me the best game out there atm. Hope it improves ofcourse, but having alot of fun. Beautiful,deep rpg and with a great community to play with. Haters gonna hate I guess. When you did not try Eso, plz do, you will not get dissapointed. I hope, its not going f2p.

    Playing: TESO (great!)
    **************
    Most looking forward for: Everquest Next
    **************
    Have Played: World of Warcraft, Final Fantasy XI, Guild Wars, Lord of the Rings Online, Vanguard, Everquest Online Adventures, Everquest 1, EverQuest 2, Dungeons & Dragons Online, The Chronical of Spellborn, Warhammer Online, Age of Conan, Aion, CoH, Loong, Dragon nest, LoL, Alods, Diablo 3, NWN, Tera, Poe, Guild Wars 2, Rift
    Most favorite; Everquest online Adventures (EQOA, 2003, PS2)

  • DrignockDrignock Woodstock, VAPosts: 1Member
    I hope it doesn't too. And I know those lazy wall-Ers are probably too lazy to read the comments. But here's some food to shove into their swollen cheeks. IF it goes free to play, all the thing that are going to be available in the cash shop are going to add up to be ALOT more expensive than paying for gametime. If people are to lazy and poor to pay for gametime. What the hell is going go motivate them to buy things in the cash shop? You want to next to spend next to nothing on the game? Yet you want updates and patches? I literally almost threw my face through my phone trying to fathom you're thought processes.


    EDIT:Trying to rant through words on my phone late at night calmly is leading to alot of grammatical mistakes. Deal with it Wall-Ers
  • Nicco77Nicco77 gePosts: 101Member Uncommon

    First of all they must do something in order to balance the classes and builds,yesterday I saw a video of a guild doing a raid with 12 people all doing AOE with staff and nothing more,I think this it's the big problem of the game.

    I still hope that at some point,maybe before the end of the year the game will get an important update to the class and combat system,then they should give a free week to all the old subscriber to test the improvements,of course I will never buy game time to test at this point I want a free time to give another chance at ESO.

  • Nickhead420Nickhead420 Schenectady, NYPosts: 132Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nicco77

    ...then they should give a free week to all the old subscriber to test the improvements,of course I will never buy game time to test at this point I want a free time to give another chance at ESO.

    Y'know, every time Blizzard sends me a free week return to WoW, I end up resubbing.  At least for a month.  

  • VorthanionVorthanion Laguna Vista, TXPosts: 2,119Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Sector13
    People here have some twisted ideas of what F2P games actually are.  Almost like they never actually play them.  : P

    I don't play them unless they offer a subscription option that gives me full and complete access to the game without any roadblocks or popups for the stinking cash shop.  I'm done with being nickel and dimed over content that is designed from day one to be incredibly tedious and torturous in order to make the cash shop more alluring.  Don't even get me started on the complete lack of a critical part of any MMO for me, the suspension of disbelief that goes out the window every time I come across a cash shop road block.

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