Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Fuzzy Avatars Solved! Please re-upload your avatar if it was fuzzy!

Housing? When will developers learn?

2»

Comments

  • GreenHellGreenHell ludlow, MAPosts: 1,322Member Uncommon

    I wouldn't say that I am jaded nor am I saying that you called me jaded. When I play an MMO I always think "it would be cool if they added this feature or that feature" that doesn't mean I hate the game. I would just like the game to be better. What I consider better may not be what you consider better but thats why we have forums to discuss ideas and waste time. 

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,915Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by SEANMCAD
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by Ramonski7
    Originally posted by SEANMCAD

    (to me)(so people don't get confused) instance housing doesn't matter. if the action I take in the house do not have any correlation to what I do outside of the house then we have a problem.

    Like in old EQ2 what you did and built in your home had zero affect for your game play outside of the home. One has to work extra hard to make a worse housing system then that.

    Exactly. In UO, housing was set up in a way that a player could share the use of an item, but have it locked down so you couldn't vandalize it. So players would lay out dye tubs for others to use, set certain vendors to give out recall runes to that location, allow players the use of their blacksmithing equipment. Some of these things really, REALLY came in handy to traveling players who may have gotten lost and was in dire need of repairs or a recall rune set for town. These things had a real impact on building a sense of a truly organic and dynamic player population.

     

    I mean if devs are really that worried about houses being abandoned by the masses, then allow for a system where a NPCs (or even humanoid mobs) could move into abandoned houses that players aren't using. There are ways to handle the abandoned house issue without giving up on open world housing all together.

    Two totally different focuses doesn't make for a very good comparison. From DAOC, to EQ2, to the implementation in W*, TOR and WOW today. Instanced housing is little more than fluff, At least W* ties theirs to actual game-play to be fair to them... It makes sense to instance said housing, as the world is designed for a different form of content than UO or SWG ever were. They spend a lot more resource on that world content comparatively to those two games. Calling it lazy or what have you is quite short sighted IMO especially if we're making comparisons.

    UO and SWG had some of the most static non interesting content you'll ever see in a MMO. The only plus to any world content in SWG was that it sparked a familiarity. Very little of SWG's environments were handcrafted. The landscape was ridiculously put together. WIth all the massive drops up and down yet two feet apart.

    It's truly apples and oranges.

    housing in the large AAA games is completely and totally fluff. We all completely agree, but its not fluff BECAUSE you have a loading screen. That logic is asine.

    WHo said it's fluff because you have to load into it? I certainly didn't. I said it makes sense to instance it because those worlds are designed for something else entirely.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • pantaropantaro monticello, NYPosts: 142Member
    When I want open world housing i look for sandbox games.......but that's just me. I don't expect crappy themeparks that couldn't survive on the sub model to offer it either.just doesnt make sense to have expectations like that,but hey we can all dream amiright???
  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,915Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Foomerang

    Isn't most features in mmos fluff? Isn't that what makes things feel immersive? All the little things coming together to make a believable world. Housing is fluff. I need that fluff. Im supposed to believe every hero around me is homeless? Instanced or not, doesn't matter to me. Its something I can customize and people can see it and its there when I log off.

    Swg housing was great. Wildstar, rift, and ffxiv all have great housing. Swtors looks good too.

    Every mmo I have played that has housing has done it a little differently and they have all been pretty good. Isn't that a sought after characteristic? Variety? What's this push to replicate whatever favorite type of feature? I enjoyed swg for almost 9 years. But Im not trying to make everything swg. Its ok to miss it or look back with nostalgia. But that's good enough for me. I don't want swg again. I had swg. It had its time. I enjoyed it. But if I wanted swg in every mmo from here on out, I'd never be satisfied. And I'd miss out on experiencing something done exceptionally well because of bias. Then I'm not really gaming anymore.

    Fluff to me means it serves no real purpose in the game outside of a novelty. Sitting in chairs as an example, is more novelty than purposeful. SWG and some others actually had a utility to their housing/buildings. Be it Med bays. Player shops, Cantinas, Cloning facilities, Fast travel, so on and so forth. When something actually has a purpose I have a hard time calling it fluff.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • kresa3333kresa3333 petah tikvaPosts: 64Member

    Open world housing is better for sure but its a tricky thing to do like other people mentioned there has to be a purpose to it.
    I didnt try archeage but from reading it feels like they done it pretty well there.
    i actully liked lotro housing as well it wasnt perfect but felt pretty nice visiting the hood.
    I think wildstar should have made housing something like lotro would have been really cool walking around to get to your house and seeing all the crazy stuff people made, and i sure it would have been very active place cuz of all the features housing give u there.
    Add chat to that region and u got one hack of a casual fun zone : )

  • FoobarxFoobarx Poway, CAPosts: 451Member

    I think if you build a house, you should be subject to the very same pitfalls as any home owner... floods, fires, earthquakes, tornadoes, hurricanes, mud slides, theft, infestation, vandalism, taxes, foreclosure, and of course, the most evil thing of all... the housing co-op gestapo.

     

  • AvanahAvanah Posts: 945Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ironhorse1010

    Either making housing for the open world or just leave it out of the game. Wildstar has really cool housing features but its instanced. Instanced housing leaves it so you and a few of your friends visit or no one does? If they want to make it instanced at least make it a huge instance where tons of people live? Much larger than LOTRO instances. Or just leave it out of the game it just ties up resources and devs that could be working on bugs or just have less devs and a better Free 2 Play game. I dont know it is just my opinion. When SWG came I loved the housing it was as close to perfect as anyone has gotten to housing. Yes it would leave houses everywhere but then you make larger maps. I mean really look at the size of Darkfalls map it is gigantic. You could even designate housing neighborhoods like Archeage is doing that is still better than instanced housing. It will probably take 5-10 years for devs to learn that instanced housing is just a bad route to go down and I think Wildstar boxed themselves in with instanced housing? Imagine if they had a bigger map and an open world like SWG? They would be leaders in the industry for years. Like I said just my opinion.

     

    Hey devs if you really want a great game? Open world housing is where its at to get those that love housing and even those on the fence about it.

    You are looking for http://www.uo.com/Housing but with updated graphics. That kind of "freedom" Housing does not exist yet with modern graphics of today. It's why todays housing has to be instanced.  I believe it would take a very serious engine and server space to "store" every ones house without bogging the server down all in the same gameworld.

    That alone would be very costly to developers.

    I wouldn't mind the "Open" world housing with todays graphics, but it's probably more difficult than it was back then to implement properly with ZERO Lag ect ect ect and ect. :)

    TGIF...Thank God I'm Female

    "My Fantasy is having two men at once...
    One Cooking and One Cleaning!"

  • FelixMajorFelixMajor London, ONPosts: 576Member
    Originally posted by GreenHell
    The only game I have ever played where I felt housing was done right is SWG. 

    SWG was my first MMO aside from Planetside.  I remember the first day I was playing it I had no idea what I was doing.  Some random guy met me in town and offered to teach me a few skills and of course I said yes.

    Then I ventured off into the desert unarmed and came across someone's hut, he then offered to give me a rifle and holy shit from that point on we went out hunting Tusken Raiders.

    Loved it.

    Originally posted by Arskaaa
    "when players learned tacticks in dungeon/raids, its bread".

  • FoomerangFoomerang Portland, ORPosts: 5,565Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by GreenHell
    I wouldn't say that I am jaded nor am I saying that you called me jaded. When I play an MMO I always think "it would be cool if they added this feature or that feature" that doesn't mean I hate the game. I would just like the game to be better. What I consider better may not be what you consider better but thats why we have forums to discuss ideas and waste time. 
    I am in agreement with you. I think that stuff to myself all the time, the "wouldn't it be cool if" stuff that fuels my desire to play as many games as I can.
    But in the context of the original post, I think that is not really constructive. Its more just another rant about how someone isnt getting what they want. The best thing about swg was the potential it had. Thinking about how awesome it was gonna be once they actually got most of that stuff working.
  • thremmathremma Fredericktown, OHPosts: 16Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ironhorse1010

    . Instanced housing leaves it so you and a few of your friends visit or no one does?

    That is the way my actual house is; only my family and friends come in and I don't want anyone else.  So instanced is fine.

     

    image
  • FoomerangFoomerang Portland, ORPosts: 5,565Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Distopia
    Fluff to me means it serves no real purpose in the game outside of a novelty. Sitting in chairs as an example, is more novelty than purposeful. SWG and some others actually had a utility to their housing/buildings. Be it Med bays. Player shops, Cantinas, Cloning facilities, Fast travel, so on and so forth. When something actually has a purpose I have a hard time calling it fluff.

    Ok, so cantinas, med bays, garages, cloning facilities, factories, and shuttleports were all structures that players could interact with and served specific function. However, specifically talking about player housing, what did it serve the community besides vendors and crafting stations? Both of those features can be done via instanced housing, standalone or in neighborhoods. The rest was fluff. And it was amazing fluff. The custom decorations and museums and aquariums that people designed was one of the best things about that game. But utility wise, the houses in SWG had less to offer than Wildstar and FFXIV do today.

  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKPosts: 8,553Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by thremma
    Originally posted by ironhorse1010

    . Instanced housing leaves it so you and a few of your friends visit or no one does?

    That is the way my actual house is; only my family and friends come in and I don't want anyone else.  So instanced is fine.

     

    Yeah but your house is there for others to look at even if they can't go in - and thats the beauty of open world housing - it creates a sense of community.

    Instanced  housing = invisibility, it exists in separate reality.

     

  • AnirethAnireth Posts: 599Member Uncommon

    Before we get real open world housing, we need to be able to enter, or at least look inside off all those houses that are already there, e.g. the cities. Developers design grand cities with hundreds of  houses, but you can only enter a few. Or none at all, often the NPCs are standing outside, or the houses you can "enter" are actually open stands or only a roof over a square.

    Thats even common in single player games.

    The thing is, this has nothing to do with hardware. It was done before, so it can be done. And houses are rather static, compared to hundreds of players running around.

    One solution to overcrowding with houses could be instances - but not per house, but per zone. While many people despise instances, it would be a huge step forward from having the house itself an instance.

    I'll wait to the day's end when the moon is high
    And then I'll rise with the tide with a lust for life, I'll
    Amass an army, and we'll harness a horde
    And then we'll limp across the land until we stand at the shore

  • FoomerangFoomerang Portland, ORPosts: 5,565Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by DMKano
    Originally posted by thremma Originally posted by ironhorse1010 . Instanced housing leaves it so you and a few of your friends visit or no one does?
    That is the way my actual house is; only my family and friends come in and I don't want anyone else.  So instanced is fine.  
    Yeah but your house is there for others to look at even if they can't go in - and thats the beauty of open world housing - it creates a sense of community.

    Instanced  housing = invisibility, it exists in separate reality.

     



    I like instanced neighborhoods. Ffxiv has 30 house neighborhoods for grand companies. I am curious how large the player housing neighborhoods will be. It was cool last weekend I was out of town and before I left, I asked my ward if anyone would volunteer swinging by my house and watering my garden. When I came back, my log showed four people who regularly tended my plants. I also got an email complimenting me on the house. I have setup a meditation area outside and it has been used by a few roleplayers.
    All in all, its brought about a decent neighborhood community.
  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,915Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Foomerang

     


    Originally posted by Distopia
    Fluff to me means it serves no real purpose in the game outside of a novelty. Sitting in chairs as an example, is more novelty than purposeful. SWG and some others actually had a utility to their housing/buildings. Be it Med bays. Player shops, Cantinas, Cloning facilities, Fast travel, so on and so forth. When something actually has a purpose I have a hard time calling it fluff.

     

    Ok, so cantinas, med bays, garages, cloning facilities, factories, and shuttleports were all structures that players could interact with and served specific function. However, specifically talking about player housing, what did it serve the community besides vendors and crafting stations? Both of those features can be done via instanced housing, standalone or in neighborhoods. The rest was fluff. And it was amazing fluff. The custom decorations and museums and aquariums that people designed was one of the best things about that game. But utility wise, the houses in SWG had less to offer than Wildstar and FFXIV do today.

    Well I think that's what it really boils down to, if a themepark adds real functionality (WS as an example) it becomes more than fluff IMO. There's a real purpose to it, that's all I was saying.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • ThaneThane berlinPosts: 2,232Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ironhorse1010

    Either making housing for the open world or just leave it out of the game. Wildstar has really cool housing features but its instanced. Instanced housing leaves it so you and a few of your friends visit or no one does? If they want to make it instanced at least make it a huge instance where tons of people live? Much larger than LOTRO instances. Or just leave it out of the game it just ties up resources and devs that could be working on bugs or just have less devs and a better Free 2 Play game. I dont know it is just my opinion. When SWG came I loved the housing it was as close to perfect as anyone has gotten to housing. Yes it would leave houses everywhere but then you make larger maps. I mean really look at the size of Darkfalls map it is gigantic. You could even designate housing neighborhoods like Archeage is doing that is still better than instanced housing. It will probably take 5-10 years for devs to learn that instanced housing is just a bad route to go down and I think Wildstar boxed themselves in with instanced housing? Imagine if they had a bigger map and an open world like SWG? They would be leaders in the industry for years. Like I said just my opinion.

     

    Hey devs if you really want a great game? Open world housing is where its at to get those that love housing and even those on the fence about it.

    DAoC had an amazing housing system, not only did it have guild houses, it also had flat share and an own zone for alooooot of houses, you could open a shop outside of your house, and decide who you let in and who not.

    i liked that system.

    anyway. carbine already said the WILL enhance their housing system sooner or later, maybe have guild houses and also they didnt negate the possibility that you might acually SEE your neighbors

    "I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKPosts: 8,553Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Foomerang

     


    Originally posted by DMKano

    Originally posted by thremma

    Originally posted by ironhorse1010 . Instanced housing leaves it so you and a few of your friends visit or no one does?
    That is the way my actual house is; only my family and friends come in and I don't want anyone else.  So instanced is fine.  
    Yeah but your house is there for others to look at even if they can't go in - and thats the beauty of open world housing - it creates a sense of community.

     

    Instanced  housing = invisibility, it exists in separate reality.

     


    I like instanced neighborhoods. Ffxiv has 30 house neighborhoods for grand companies. I am curious how large the player housing neighborhoods will be. It was cool last weekend I was out of town and before I left, I asked my ward if anyone would volunteer swinging by my house and watering my garden. When I came back, my log showed four people who regularly tended my plants. I also got an email complimenting me on the house. I have setup a meditation area outside and it has been used by a few roleplayers.
    All in all, its brought about a decent neighborhood community.

     

    Yep it's great for those 30 players - and it only gets better once it's shared by more players - which ultimately open world housing does the best as it doesn't separate it into an instance.

     

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,221Member Uncommon

    I like Wildstar housing. It was useful and fun. My favorite, of the games I play, is probably EQ2. It's fun has many build styles, can be functional and useful, and can be a showcase of accomplishments.

    Housing neighborhoods in LotRO didn't work well. I suppose it would depend on how they're implemented, but if people don't frequent them they look like ghost towns. One reason I like instanced doors in EQ2 is the housing is in towns that people use.

  • FoomerangFoomerang Portland, ORPosts: 5,565Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by DMKano
    Originally posted by Foomerang   Originally posted by DMKano Originally posted by thremma Originally posted by ironhorse1010 . Instanced housing leaves it so you and a few of your friends visit or no one does?
    That is the way my actual house is; only my family and friends come in and I don't want anyone else.  So instanced is fine.  
    Yeah but your house is there for others to look at even if they can't go in - and thats the beauty of open world housing - it creates a sense of community.   Instanced  housing = invisibility, it exists in separate reality.  
    I like instanced neighborhoods. Ffxiv has 30 house neighborhoods for grand companies. I am curious how large the player housing neighborhoods will be. It was cool last weekend I was out of town and before I left, I asked my ward if anyone would volunteer swinging by my house and watering my garden. When I came back, my log showed four people who regularly tended my plants. I also got an email complimenting me on the house. I have setup a meditation area outside and it has been used by a few roleplayers. All in all, its brought about a decent neighborhood community.  
    Yep it's great for those 30 players - and it only gets better once it's shared by more players - which ultimately open world housing does the best as it doesn't separate it into an instance.

     



    I get what you're saying. But its not 30 players, its more like a couple hundred. Which is more populated than most swg player cities were. Im more curious about personal housing though. If they are just a replica of what we already have, it will be sorta pointless. Im hoping for 50+ houses and some market incentives. But we shall see.

    SWG had hidden gems which made it really fun to go exploring. Just to see someones immaculate decorations was worth the journey. There were a handful of those, maybe a couple of unique city layouts. By the end, it was a mess, they added so many nonsensical structures it just looked obnoxious. It looked less like sw universe and more like sw superfan's bedroom haha. Then there were the countless abandoned structures that littered the landscapes, all vacant. It made the world feel small, nothing tucked away. There was a structure every few hundred yards across every planet and it kind of ruined the immersion.

  • FoomerangFoomerang Portland, ORPosts: 5,565Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by Foomerang   Originally posted by Distopia Fluff to me means it serves no real purpose in the game outside of a novelty. Sitting in chairs as an example, is more novelty than purposeful. SWG and some others actually had a utility to their housing/buildings. Be it Med bays. Player shops, Cantinas, Cloning facilities, Fast travel, so on and so forth. When something actually has a purpose I have a hard time calling it fluff.
      Ok, so cantinas, med bays, garages, cloning facilities, factories, and shuttleports were all structures that players could interact with and served specific function. However, specifically talking about player housing, what did it serve the community besides vendors and crafting stations? Both of those features can be done via instanced housing, standalone or in neighborhoods. The rest was fluff. And it was amazing fluff. The custom decorations and museums and aquariums that people designed was one of the best things about that game. But utility wise, the houses in SWG had less to offer than Wildstar and FFXIV do today.
    Well I think that's what it really boils down to, if a themepark adds real functionality (WS as an example) it becomes more than fluff IMO. There's a real purpose to it, that's all I was saying.

    I agree. And I think devs are getting that. Ive seen a lot more functionality brought into current housing systems than ever before tbh.

  • ZoeMcCloskeyZoeMcCloskey Phoenix, AZPosts: 1,148Member Uncommon
    Yeah really want open world housing like in SWG again.  Build up your own cities and everything is much more fun.  I thought Wildstar would go this route but it didn't. :(

    image
2»
Sign In or Register to comment.