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What is the current state of Nightblades ?

ShadanwolfShadanwolf Posts: 2,114Member Uncommon

My main character is a stamina using.. wood elf...leather wearing.....bow/dual wield using ....stealther.

I found doing the main   MANDATED story line quests at level 20 and 50 extrordinarily dificult. So difficult that I was forced into dual wield at 20(something I did not want to do as a answer to enabeling me to even progress....So much for "play the game the way you want to play"  lies).

 

What is the state of the game today...not the promises...but  have the improved the game play substantially  for my play style ?

Comments

  • AeonbladesAeonblades Home, GAPosts: 2,083Member
    Nightblades have been one of the strongest classes in the game since release. As far as making Bow viable 100% of the time, I don't see that happening. It wasn't the case in any of the single player ES games, so I doubt full bow will ever be viable in ESO. You are given the choice of picking two weapon types and changing on the fly, your character is most definitely meant to use that to it's advantage. Just using one weapon type will probably never be a good alternative in ESO.

    Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
    Have played: You name it
    If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  • MrMelGibsonMrMelGibson USAPosts: 836Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Shadanwolf

    My main character is a stamina using.. wood elf...leather wearing.....bow/dual wield using ....stealther.

    I found doing the main   MANDATED story line quests at level 20 and 50 extrordinarily dificult. So difficult that I was forced into dual wield at 20(something I did not want to do as a answer to enabeling me to even progress....So much for "play the game the way you want to play"  lies).

     

    What is the state of the game today...not the promises...but  have the improved the game play substantially  for my play style ?

    You should consider using more of your class abilities.  Such as strife (I think thats the name of the leeching health ability), it will help you stay alive.  You also have some immobilizing abilities that will help you with sticking to just using the bow.  I have 2 mains, and my DPS is nightblade dual wield.

     

    Truthfully, you should also take a look at some guides online to help you build the perfect ranged (bow) dps.  I'm not sure what other people are saying, but from what i've heard in game and read online (forums, guides).  Ranged is strong in ESO and if you want to stay ranged, you shouldn't have to dual wield.

  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,622Member Uncommon

    I've been leveling a medium armored, wood elf, bow/bow NB lately and it's level 26 ATM. I'm having no problems. I've been stacking stamina and magicka and not putting any points into health at all. Depending on which food I use, I can overcharge either magicka or stamina...or both using "purple" food. I'm not finding my lower than normal health to be a problem since I kill everything pretty damn fast.

    For groups of 3 or more I open with Scorched Earth followed by Bombard and then again Bombard to keep them pinned in the AOE. I follow this with Refreshing Path for more AOE damage + self heals. For 2 or less I open with strong bow from stealth followed by Venom Arrow and Swallow Soul and knock melee attackers back with Magnum Shot as needed. When a low health mob gets near me I use Shadowy disguise followed by Killer's Blade. I also keep Lotus Fan and Concealed weapons slotted and use when needed. I use Soul tether as my main Ultimate.

    I think most bow NB problems come from stacking stamina OR magicka and neglecting the other, If you stack both, things go much easier, especially if you take advantage of all the self-heal secondary effects many of the NB abilities have.

    I tried a similar build back in April and gave up on it so either I just know how to play better or the buffs have helped...or both.

  • ScotScot UKPosts: 5,769Member Uncommon

    If you think play the game you want means you don't have to think about what combat abilities you are picking, then this is not the game you want. If you think it means that with planning any build will get you to top level then this is the game you want. Some builds are slower than others, some better at pve as opposed pvp than others...that's not a first in MMO history :) 

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,282Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Shadanwolf

    My main character is a stamina using.. wood elf...leather wearing.....bow/dual wield using ....stealther.

    I found doing the main   MANDATED story line quests at level 20 and 50 extrordinarily dificult. So difficult that I was forced into dual wield at 20(something I did not want to do as a answer to enabeling me to even progress....So much for "play the game the way you want to play"  lies).

     

    What is the state of the game today...not the promises...but  have the improved the game play substantially  for my play style ?

    Redguard Stam using Night Blade here. They buffed Snipe. It helps a lot. We are still squishy, and our dark cloak doesn't work right.  If you can play smart, you can overcome. 

     

    If they see me, I deserve to die imo. That's how I play it. 

  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,128Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Shadanwolf

    My main character is a stamina using.. wood elf...leather wearing.....bow/dual wield using ....stealther.

    I found doing the main   MANDATED story line quests at level 20 and 50 extrordinarily dificult. So difficult that I was forced into dual wield at 20(something I did not want to do as a answer to enabeling me to even progress....So much for "play the game the way you want to play"  lies).

     

    What is the state of the game today...not the promises...but  have the improved the game play substantially  for my play style ?

    To be honest, the game hasn't changed all that much.

    Most of the same problems are still there (though people aren't really falling through the world anymore). And Zenimax has even managed to introduce some fun new ones (like massive FPS drops in Cyrodil, and memory leaks). They've released a plan to improve the game, mostly through cosmetic guild stuff, and a guild market that should've been in the game on release. Oh, and they're nerfing VR content to be more solo-casual friendly, because they somehow think that will fix the issues with it being too grindy.

    As for Nightblades:

    Pretty much the state of classes in the game is this. Every class' best setup is currently light armor (robes) with a staff. Every single last one. You can do a stamina build, and for low lvl pvp (non-vr) it works just fine. For pvp / higher lvl pve you are gimping yourself by doing so.

    Zenimax has mentioned they are aware this a problem, and have promised to address it sometime in the future.

  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,622Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by aesperus
    Zenimax has mentioned they are aware this a problem, and have promised to address it sometime in the future.

    They've been addressing it a bit a time... they're being cautious. Every patch is buffing melee weapons, bow, medium armor and heavy armor a bit.

     

    There's no question that stamina builds feel a bit better already. But they still have a ways to go to catch up to bathrobe + stick builds.

  • justsomemmogamer88justsomemmogamer88 Hamilton, ALPosts: 5Member
    Nightblades are under-powered... 
  • d_20d_20 AmsterdamPosts: 765Member Uncommon

    I don't know about pve (only level 20) but there are some pretty bad ass NBs running around Cyrodiil, at least in one-on-one. I personally saw one of them using at least some heavy armor and 1h+shield + siphoning abilities. He killed my VR12 templar (caster in that encounter) and two other guys. I stayed dead and watched him fight a VR12 sorc, but the fight took too long as he started wearing the sorc's health down. His health never went below 80%. The sorc kept dropping health slowly probably trying to hang on till more help came. I left when sorc was down to 50% and NB got back up to full.

     

    I would like to see him fight a VR12 DK  or another melee build. Casters seemed to have a hard time with that NB build he was running.

     

    Also, I don't know about the relative skill of the players he killed. I'm not the best pvper in the world -- I get by, and I don't know about the skills of the others, but this guy was better than us for sure.

     

    Make of it what you will.

    image
  • thububthubub Moore, OKPosts: 58Member
    Originally posted by Shadanwolf

    My main character is a stamina using.. wood elf...leather wearing.....bow/dual wield using ....stealther.

    I found doing the main   MANDATED story line quests at level 20 and 50 extrordinarily dificult. So difficult that I was forced into dual wield at 20(something I did not want to do as a answer to enabeling me to even progress....So much for "play the game the way you want to play"  lies).

    What is the state of the game today...not the promises...but  have the improved the game play substantially  for my play style ?

     

    I have some good news and some bad news.  The good news is that the bow is in a very good state now with the adjustments to snipe.  It is going to get even better once the changes proposed in http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/118546/pts-patch-notes-v1-3-0/p1  go live.  The bad news is that until you max out your bow line, it is a very difficult weapon to use and be effective with. 

    By the time you max it out, you will find pve to be a breeze.  You will take very little damage most of the time.  You will be able to solo some of the equal level world bosses (depending on the boss mechanics).  Groups of mobs will no longer be a problem and a lot of your time will be devoted to two-shotting things.  In PvP (assuming you get some skill), you will be beastly in 1 vs. 1 encounters.  You will be a terror in small gank groups (2-6 players).  You will excel at scouting.  But there will also be some drawbacks.

    Unfortunately the bow does not shine in zergs.  The movement is to fast, damage and healing happen to rapidly, and all those moving bodies make it hard to effectively target someone and take them down.  In the zerg, the staff rules all.  In group dungeon runs, the same generally holds true.  While the bow has some aoe abilities and some good single target damage, it isn't very good in fast-paced dynamic situations with lots of people/monsters running around like chickens with their heads cut off (kinda like bows in real life).

    So what can you do right now?  Well here are some tips that might improve your nightblade/bow synergy.

    1. Draining shot  Scatter shot (or the draining shot morph) is your friend - this skill is how you can take three mobs at a time.  It disorients them, which is a kind of stun.  So long as the target doesn't take damage, it will not be able to do anything for 5 seconds.  Be sure you don't use flaming as an enchant on your bow for pve.  The dot on it breaks the disoriented state and causes the mob to resume its attack.  Never morph this to magnum shot, because you don't want to go bouncing backwards into another pack of mobs.
    2. AgonyAgony is also your friend - this skill is a 12 second stun.  So you can initiate with a 12 second stun on mob 1.  Take your second shot with draining shot to immobilize mob 2. Then focus fire on mob 3 till you burn him down.  Use agony and draining shot to keep the other two mobs locked down as long as necessary, then burn the next until none remain.
    3. Soul shred Soul shred (or its morph soul tether) is a great ultimate in case things get dicey.  Save this is as your "get out of jail free" ultimate  move.  It will stun mobs that are close to you.  It lets you get control of the situation when you are having trouble or get adds.
    4. Snipe Mark TargetOnce you get snipe and mark target, these becomes your new openers.   From stealth you will mark your target, then snipe.  If you hit them from the side or the back this will stun the target.  You then snipe a second time and the target is dead (almost all the time).  Then you can go into your rotation like before but now you mix it up with snipe a lot.
     
    As for dual wielding, I don't know.  Never used it.  From everything I have seen and heard about dual wield, it is very situational.  I really don't have enough information to tell you how it is, but I do know it will get better once the next patch goes live.
     
    Just like every weapon set or skill line in the game, there are situations that it will excel, situations it will be ok in, and situations that it will do very poorly in.  If all you want to do is run around in medium armor with a bow, you can do it and be very successful in many situations in both PvE and PvP.  My advice is to learn it well, then once you have it mastered pick up another style of play that also appeals to you.  What I love about this game is that my character can do whatever works best for the situation.  When I am ganking and scouting in pvp, I go medium/bow.  If I am at a keep and breeching the walls, I go heavy/sword&board.  If I am in a massive roaming zerg group I go light/staff.  I have an optimal build and skill set for any situation and can adjust to new tactics or situations as they are presented to me.  As for saying that zenimax lied about saying you could "play the game how you want to play", I don't think they lied at all.  Everything they have done so far has shown a commitment to balancing play styles and tweaking skills and classes so that any style can be viable.  Public test server patches continue to move in that direction with the stamina/magica re-balancing.  You should really learn how to utilize the tools your play-style has to offer, before you go trashing the philosophy behind the game.

     

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,282Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by thubub
    Originally posted by Shadanwolf

    My main character is a stamina using.. wood elf...leather wearing.....bow/dual wield using ....stealther.

    I found doing the main   MANDATED story line quests at level 20 and 50 extrordinarily dificult. So difficult that I was forced into dual wield at 20(something I did not want to do as a answer to enabeling me to even progress....So much for "play the game the way you want to play"  lies).

    What is the state of the game today...not the promises...but  have the improved the game play substantially  for my play style ?

    So what can you do right now?  Well here are some tips that might improve your nightblade/bow synergy.

    1. Draining shot  Scatter shot (or the draining shot morph) is your friend - this skill is how you can take three mobs at a time.  It disorients them, which is a kind of stun.  So long as the target doesn't take damage, it will not be able to do anything for 5 seconds.  Be sure you don't use flaming as an enchant on your bow for pve.  The dot on it breaks the disoriented state and causes the mob to resume its attack.  Never morph this to magnum shot, because you don't want to go bouncing backwards into another pack of mobs.
    2. AgonyAgony is also your friend - this skill is a 12 second stun.  So you can initiate with a 12 second stun on mob 1.  Take your second shot with draining shot to immobilize mob 2. Then focus fire on mob 3 till you burn him down.  Use agony and draining shot to keep the other two mobs locked down as long as necessary, then burn the next until none remain.
    3. Soul shred Soul shred (or its morph soul tether) is a great ultimate in case things get dicey.  Save this is as your "get out of jail free" ultimate  move.  It will stun mobs that are close to you.  It lets you get control of the situation when you are having trouble or get adds.
    4. Snipe Mark TargetOnce you get snipe and mark target, these becomes your new openers.   From stealth you will mark your target, then snipe.  If you hit them from the side or the back this will stun the target.  You then snipe a second time and the target is dead (almost all the time).  Then you can go into your rotation like before but now you mix it up with snipe a lot.
     

    Quality build here. I've been running something similar in Cyrodiil.

     

    I replace scatter with mark, and morph agony into Malific's Wrath. Omg the pleasure I get out of watching someone struggle w/o enough stam to break free, then *chirp* my snipe hits. Nighty nighty image

  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,128Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by aesperus
    Zenimax has mentioned they are aware this a problem, and have promised to address it sometime in the future.

    They've been addressing it a bit a time... they're being cautious. Every patch is buffing melee weapons, bow, medium armor and heavy armor a bit.

    There's no question that stamina builds feel a bit better already. But they still have a ways to go to catch up to bathrobe + stick builds.

    Aye, though they made it extremely difficult on themselves, the way they designed the combat for this game.

    Damage scales (though it's not the primary scaling factor) off of the resource used to active such ability (magica or stamina). Atm, staves are the only weapons that actively give you back resources (even if you aren't using any of the abilities assigned to said weapon), and that's the heart of the problem really. Everyone can stack magicka and a resto staff, the resto staff hits too hard as it is, but it also makes it impossible for you to run out of magicka. There's nothing to really do that w/ for stamina. The closest thing is the whirlwind ability (dual wield), which acts as a regen (which gets affected by soft caps). The resto channel gives you back a flat amount.

    I hope (though I haven't seen anything on this yet), that they decide to not making your resource pools scale your damage, so that they can better balance weapons around their intended uses. This would also make hybrid builds (magica + stamina) more useful.

  • ScotScot UKPosts: 5,769Member Uncommon

    Thanks for your thoughts Raquis.

     

    Apart from Agony that was a good build. I would suggest the Fighters guild trap as an alternative.

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