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[Column] Elder Scrolls Online: Veteran Rank Changes Unifying the Game at What Cost?

SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
in News & Features Discussion

ZeniMax published a post late last week saying it planned to make a series of changes to Veteran Rank content. Those changes, which began rolling out this week, were indicative of what the studio called a desire to listen to the feedback people had been giving and gauge just where the community had been on the matter of Veteran Rank content. After listening, there were several key points, including that the difference in difficulty between the 1-50 game and the post-50 game surprised players, who felt forced into groups or simply felt they had hit a wall and then gave up. Some were also dissatisfied with the VR content necessarily taking them through the content of other factions with little change. If you pledged your sword to Queen Ayrenn, why would you then go off happily questing in service of Jorunn?

Read more of Christina Gonzalez's Elder Scrolls Online: Veteran Rank Changes Unifying the Game at What Cost?

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Comments

  • orbitxoorbitxo Member RarePosts: 1,956

    all the elder scroll games never had veteran leveling-and they were successful

     

    id rather see a percentage number than a redundent leveling rank after hitting 50 cap.

  • CrusadesCrusades Member Posts: 480
    I'd rather contemplate things that actually matter. I clicked on this article simply to see what kind of stunt they would try next. Looks like pandering to casuals is the next item up for bid Bob.
  • NyghthowlerNyghthowler Member UncommonPosts: 392

    The problem as I see it is that some of the classes / builds are still majorly broken. Then the PvP'ers cry nerf because they feel some thing is to OP and the devs do just that; nerf what is working and further unbalancing PvE.

    Wanting to be a Plate wearing, 2hander wielding tank and being forced into a dress and staff wielding build just to be effective is not my idea of balanced or Play your Way...

  • Tyr216Tyr216 Member UncommonPosts: 168
    Originally posted by Crusades
    Looks like pandering to casuals is the next item up for bid Bob.

    Yes because mindless grinding for the sake of grinding is both inspired and intelligent design that clearly makes you "hardcore" and therefor better than people who don't want to endlessly quest immediately after hitting max level.

    image
  • SoandsosoSoandsoso Member Posts: 533
    Originally posted by Tyr216
    Originally posted by Crusades
    Looks like pandering to casuals is the next item up for bid Bob.

    Yes because mindless grinding for the sake of grinding is both inspired and intelligent design that clearly makes you "hardcore" and therefor better than people who don't want to endlessly quest immediately after hitting max level.

    GW2...its simple...and its free. I'm sure  there are more. You have options.

    Or you can qq with most of the vocal minority.

  • ZieglerZiegler Member Posts: 159
    Originally posted by Soandsoso
    Originally posted by Tyr216
    Originally posted by Crusades
    Looks like pandering to casuals is the next item up for bid Bob.

    Yes because mindless grinding for the sake of grinding is both inspired and intelligent design that clearly makes you "hardcore" and therefor better than people who don't want to endlessly quest immediately after hitting max level.

    GW2...its simple...and its free. I'm sure  there are more. You have options.

    Or you can qq with most of the vocal minority.

    Why that sounds like an excellant idea.  Cancel your sub Tyr216...Zenimax doesnt want your money, as SoandSoso has eloquently pointed out.

    Then we can watch Soandsoso cry and whine about them going F2P.

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719

    Grouping in MMOs is a genre-defining great thing. But it should be done in content designed for group play.

     

    Taking content that is so obviously designed for solo play 1-50 and then ramping up the difficulty so that it could only be soloed by those with robes and sticks was always a bad idea. it is the very definition of "quick and dirty" grouping. We know the difference between true solo and true group content and you just can't pass one off as the other.

     

    Craglorn is the real post-50 group content. It has been generally well received and no one is saying that it should be soloable. If they want to encourage grouping - which is a worthwhile thing to do, they should do it by creating more true group content... more Craglorns, more 1-50 low-level outdoor or indoor large group areas, instanced or not. 

     

    Even their stated efforts to allow grouping in the 1-50 content that currently is solo-only is a waste of time and effort, IMHO... no matter how many say they want that. It'll make couples who want to faceroll through content designed for one happy, I guess. But it will still be solo content and the conspicuous lack of enough true group content will still be there.

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  • GregorMcgregorGregorMcgregor Member UncommonPosts: 263

    The main issue with "encouraging grouping from the start is the way to go" is that most of the other players you meet are self-centered, greedy asshats that would sooner stand on your throat as give you the time of day.

    The days of games like EQ and DAoC where players helped each other, or gave out gold and/or buffs is long gone.

    Maybe it's just me as an older PC/mmo gamer (in his 40ies), but the future isn't looking to bright, and only seems to get worse with each new mmo that comes out. :(

    No trials. No tricks. No traps. No EU-RP server. NO THANKS!

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  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 32,010
    Originally posted by Iselin

    Grouping in MMOs is a genre-defining great thing. But it should be done in content designed for group play.

     

    Pretty much this.

    I soloed most of Lineage 2. Was it a "solo game"? No. But there was always content for solo players.

    Then there were areas/dungeons where you had to group. however, the rewards, the items, etc that you could get in these group dungeons/areas are what encouraged players to group.

    Not difficult areas for the sake of being difficult. Again, in Lineage 2, there was an area that was notoriously difficult because the mobs were not only magic resistant but they would run and get help. No one leveled there because there was no reason to.

    Yet Cruma Tower, Tower of Insolence, Antharas Cave, Forge of the Gods among others were areas where players routinely grouped.

    Elder Scrolls Online should have had complex, in-depth dungeons that were clearly group areas. The rewards should have been decent and they could have even given significant xp boosts for being grouped in these areas.

    The system they have now is just ridiculous and making it easier doesn't really solve the "grouping problem" for those who want to group.

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  • CenthanCenthan Member Posts: 483
    Originally posted by GregorMcgregor

    The main issue with "encouraging grouping from the start is the way to go" is that most of the other players you meet are self-centered, greedy asshats that would sooner stand on your throat as give you the time of day.The days of games like EQ and DAoC where players helped each other, or gave out gold and/or buffs is long gone.Maybe it's just me as an older PC/mmo gamer (in his 40ies), but the future isn't looking to bright, and only seems to get worse with each new mmo that comes out. :(

     

    Couldn't agree more, and is why I have been playing nothing but single player games for quite some time. I'm in my 40's as well and have seen nothing but a decrease in MMO game quality and an increase in asshattery over the last decade. I'm honestly not sure which of those two reasons keep me from playing MMO's more. So why do I come back here? Don't know...mainly nostalgia and the hope that some game somewhere will bring back the interest in playing an MMO again.
  • MargraveMargrave Member RarePosts: 1,362
    Originally posted by GregorMcgregor

    The main issue with "encouraging grouping from the start is the way to go" is that most of the other players you meet are self-centered, greedy asshats that would sooner stand on your throat as give you the time of day.

    The days of games like EQ and DAoC where players helped each other, or gave out gold and/or buffs is long gone.

    Maybe it's just me as an older PC/mmo gamer (in his 40ies), but the future isn't looking to bright, and only seems to get worse with each new mmo that comes out. :(

     

    You reminded me of the days of just running around, and some random person putting SoW on me. Such a nice, friendly surprise when it would happen. Oooooo, when I would get Breeze, or Clarity it was like winning the lottery. I was a Eru Wiz back in the day...

     

    /sigh ... Oh the memories... When EQ was good.... sure it only had 450K at it's peak, but that's all it needed dangit....

  • Gel214thGel214th Member UncommonPosts: 188

    Excuse me? What exactly is the problem here?

    Implement encounter scaling in code. If it's one person, it scales to one person. If it is a group, it scales to the group. 

    See Guild Wars 2 for how this can be done, to accomodate ALL play styles with the same content.

    Alternately, see Dungeons and Dragons which had hard difficulty selections at the start of their story instances as another way to do this.

    The team that's making ESO don't seem to be versed in the more recent advancements in MMOs, and that seems to be part of the problem.

    Take this Free to Play, make the necessary changes and let the game grow. 

    See SWTOR for how this can be done successfully. 

  • SoandsosoSoandsoso Member Posts: 533
    Originally posted by Gel214th

    Excuse me? What exactly is the problem here?

    Implement encounter scaling in code. If it's one person, it scales to one person. If it is a group, it scales to the group. 

    See Guild Wars 2 for how this can be done, to accomodate ALL play styles with the same content.

    Alternately, see Dungeons and Dragons which had hard difficulty selections at the start of their story instances as another way to do this.

    The team that's making ESO don't seem to be versed in the more recent advancements in MMOs, and that seems to be part of the problem.

    Take this Free to Play, make the necessary changes and let the game grow. 

    See SWTOR for how this can be done successfully. 

    If you want a gw2 like game just play GW2

    If you want F2P pick one of the many F2P games out there.

    The problem is people have options but choose to play a game that is obviously not for them and choose then tell everyone around about the big bad company that scammed them.

  • sketocafesketocafe Member UncommonPosts: 950
    I really liked the ramping difficulty in VR content. I was less pleased that the class balance was such that I could repeatedly bash my head against something with my nightblade and then watch a dragonknight or sorcerer moonwalk by and utterly destroy it in a heartbeat. I want to feel challenged, but I don't want to feel challenged by something that's trivial for others.
  • augustgraceaugustgrace Member UncommonPosts: 628
    The title is rather misleading.  Asking, "but at what cost?," makes it sound as though everything is ship shape and this could be a disaster.  The fact is they've heard the feedback and seen that players ditch the game once they hit veteran rank.  Not making these changes is the far bigger risk.  However loud the "hardcore," fragment of players may be, the fact is they measure a tiny tiny portion of the paying player base.
  • Don_XDon_X Member UncommonPosts: 4
    We'll  hey  , it's  summer and  if  they  don't  screw the  game  up  too  much  I may  go  back  to  it.
     
  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,838

    Christina if you are going to write about this game, you need to pvp. ESO is a pvp game.

     

    What you are doing is the same as going to FFARR and talking only about it's boring battle grounds.

     

     

    "We see fundamentals and we ape in"
  • pappacubepappacube Member UncommonPosts: 99
    IMHO SW:TOR has hit the sweet spot for mix of solo and group content.  I have pretty much left ESO and gone back to SW:TOR.
  • pappacubepappacube Member UncommonPosts: 99
    Originally posted by Iselin

    Grouping in MMOs is a genre-defining great thing. But it should be done in content designed for group play.

     

    Taking content that is so obviously designed for solo play 1-50 and then ramping up the difficulty so that it could only be soloed by those with robes and sticks was always a bad idea. it is the very definition of "quick and dirty" grouping. We know the difference between true solo and true group content and you just can't pass one off as the other.

     

    Craglorn is the real post-50 group content. It has been generally well received and no one is saying that it should be soloable. If they want to encourage grouping - which is a worthwhile thing to do, they should do it by creating more true group content... more Craglorns, more 1-50 low-level outdoor or indoor large group areas, instanced or not. 

     

    Even their stated efforts to allow grouping in the 1-50 content that currently is solo-only is a waste of time and effort, IMHO... no matter how many say they want that. It'll make couples who want to faceroll through content designed for one happy, I guess. But it will still be solo content and the conspicuous lack of enough true group content will still be there.

     

    100%  agree.  Nice post.

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 32,010
    Originally posted by bcbully

    Christina if you are going to write about this game, you need to pvp. ESO is a pvp game.

     

    What you are doing is the same as going to FFARR and talking only about it's boring battle grounds.

     

     

    Well, "no" it isn't.

    Just because that's how you view it doesn't mean that there are other people even touching pvp. They are going through all the faction content and Craglorn.

    One never has to touch pvp if one doesn't want to. Not really a pvp game since that is the case.

     

    Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb." 

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    Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo 
  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid Member EpicPosts: 10,722

    Also, when game companies realize that group content doesnt mean just increasing difficulty of solo content, then they will start making good group oriented games from scratch. They are slowly killing what is left of ESO.

     

    ESO is not the next installement in the TES series. Its an mmo that tries to be the next TES VI..... lame.





  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,838
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by bcbully

    Christina if you are going to write about this game, you need to pvp. ESO is a pvp game.

     

    What you are doing is the same as going to FFARR and talking only about it's boring battle grounds.

     

     

    Well, "no" it isn't.

    Just because that's how you view it doesn't mean that there are other people even touching pvp. They are going through all the faction content and Craglorn.

    One never has to touch pvp if one doesn't want to. Not really a pvp game since that is the case.

     

    I feel sorry for those people. They are missing what makes ESO special (outside of the ES lore). If they did "touch" Cyrodiil  they would look at these solo/group discussion and laugh. 

    "We see fundamentals and we ape in"
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 32,010
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by bcbully

    Christina if you are going to write about this game, you need to pvp. ESO is a pvp game.

     

    What you are doing is the same as going to FFARR and talking only about it's boring battle grounds.

     

     

    Well, "no" it isn't.

    Just because that's how you view it doesn't mean that there are other people even touching pvp. They are going through all the faction content and Craglorn.

    One never has to touch pvp if one doesn't want to. Not really a pvp game since that is the case.

     

    I feel sorry for those people. They are missing what makes ESO special (outside of the ES lore). If they did "touch" Cyrodiil  they would look at these solo/group discussion and laugh. 

    No reason to feel sorry for them as it's content they don't care about.

    Just because others think it's special doesn't mean it is special. That's the problem with these discussions, others insist that x is what makes a game great. If "x" isn't even of interest then it never enters into the equation. Just like others might say raiding is what makes an mmo great.

    I know many pvp players that despise raiding. Should you feel sorry for them as well?

    Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb." 

    Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w


    Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547

    Try the "Special Edition." 'Cause it's "Special." https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/64878/?tab=description

    Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo 
  • RemyVorenderRemyVorender Member RarePosts: 3,991
    You guys kill me with the gloom and doom titling you give all of you ESO articles.

    Joined - July 2004

  • artemisentr4artemisentr4 Member UncommonPosts: 1,431
    The design concept should have been. Simple. All questing, including delves and VR should have been like the 1-50. Solo style while seeing others running around in the world. All group dungeons should have been much longer with worth while loot and XP. Then have PvP and elete dungeon runs along with craglorn be the group end game. All options viable ways to progress your character.

    Hopefully by the console release it will be that way. All options viable. Nothing forced on players. Being able to play thecwayvyou want.

    “How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?”
    R.A.Salvatore

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