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The problem with EQ is SOE.
So far every game they touched started out good and died/became terrible later.
Their problem is the management.
And a consecutive problem is this:
1. They make people buy landmark (people don't have to I know, let's leave the crap at the door)
2. People build great stuff, castles and you name it but they give up all rights to their work and SOE owns it
3. SOE uses this work, best pieces in EQ Next, not only for free but they made people pay to work for SOE to do their job
4. They make the same (and other people) pay again for EQ Next
If that's not evil I don't know what is.
A game is similar to a movie or tv series. When watching I want to be amazed, given a new perspective, dive into a different world, be entertained. The same applies to games. If I can sink in and forget reality for a while and actually pretend to be something else that's a good game. I don't remember when the last time was (apart from EQ2) in the past decade I was able to.
I hate WoW but it's the biggest reason for its success. At the end of Warcraft 3, which had a great story, it all lead to World of Warcraft. And even I played it in the beginning that's how strong the pull from WC3 to WoW was.
EQ1 had story but it was also a shitty game, sorry. EQ2 had a great story and with it also events that sucked you into the story, into the world, away from the real world.
I watched a few EQ2 raidvids just a few hours ago, and I was raiding pretty no-life hardcore for a while in EQ2. I don't think I could stomach another random noob raid where few people say what you have to do and miserable players ruin the fun because of single mistakes made again and again. And let's not forget the "meet at 7 p.m. hey it's 7:30 where's joe? oh he went to the mall said he'll brb" unorganized crap. And the raid itself, watching timers, moving because of some script. DPS epeen waving. Ugh. EQ3 yes, maybe, but different, not like this again. Only thinking about this creates a bad feeling.
EQ Next, meh I'll give it a chance, if I don't have to pay for it and I'll always have "It's SOE" in mind, "they'll ruin it eventually anyway"
Originally posted by Torgrim EQN migration system sounds really intresting, long gone are the static mob spawn, mobs move around and if you kill them to much they migrate to other places. Old Everquest ala themepark are dead, get over it, we are entering a new era of MMO gaming, flow with it or stay back and play your arcane stale themepark buildup It's your choice. I embrase changes.
It's what Darkfall promised but never delivered, sadly.
Originally posted by Darq1 The problem with EQ is SOE. So far every game they touched started out good and died/became terrible later. Their problem is the management. Can't disagree, but without SOE, we wouldn't have those games to begin with, heck might not have the genre as quickly as we did. Not sure what went through their minds when they made sweeping changes to EQ/SWG, could of been fear of the competition, listening to the wrong players/devs, or simply trying something else in hopes to be more successful. Many still enjoy EQ/EQ2, but who knows where they would of ended up if they had done it differently. And a consecutive problem is this: 1. They make people buy landmark (people don't have to I know, let's leave the crap at the door) I wasn't "made" to buy landmark. If someone isn't willing/able to pay $20 for a game, they probably shouldn't be playing games. They could of simply said it costs ~$20 like almost all EA games, would you or anyone been upset then? Will be F2P eventually so not sure why people so angry about this. Don't want to pay for the chance to participate, don't. I've waited for games to drop in price or go F2P, we all place value on products and have our limits. 2. People build great stuff, castles and you name it but they give up all rights to their work and SOE owns it Which is built with their tools on their servers. Players will be able to make a profit as well. Not much different then apps or any other online market. Don't like it, don't participate. If I hated Apple taking a percent from my music/app or whatever, I wouldn't use iTunes, guess what? Many don't. Those who do, take advantage of all that it provides. 3. SOE uses this work, best pieces in EQ Next, not only for free but they made people pay to work for SOE to do their job Again, no one "made" anyone do it nor are they stealing work. People submit their creations and want their work to be in EQN or be sold to players in either game. Think you are missing the point of why people are enjoying Landmark and the connection to EQN. We get to be part of the game's development. That is reward to some. Not everyone needs a huge check. I'd love to see people using what I create and know I made it. 4. They make the same (and other people) pay again for EQ Next Hate when SOE comes into my home and "makes" me do these things...as Landmark/EQN will be F2P and players can choose to purchase items or not, still missing what you are upset about. If that's not evil I don't know what is. Turn on the news. Google evil in the world. If that is where your bar is, you must live a pretty blissful life. That isn't even "first world problem" status. EQ Next, meh I'll give it a chance, if I don't have to pay for it and I'll always have "It's SOE" in mind, "they'll ruin it eventually anyway" You are perfectly fine playing a game and potentially not spending a dime for endless entertainment, yet think it is evil of SOE to try and make a profit off of players willingly participating in their ecosystem? Makes sense to me.
Sounds like you want your cake, pie, ice cream, a back rub and for SOE to pay you to play their game. Really doesn't make any sense to me. They are trying to make it as free as possible for those unable/willing to pay, with that comes ways to make a profit. Don't like it, play another game.
I'm assuming you either haven't played Landmark and or don't submit things in the building competition. Which goes back to I don't know what you are going on about. SOE could easily build EQN with zero outside input, some of us enjoy them not going this route. Don't like it? Wait until it is released and enjoy for free. Take advantage of all those that put in the effort to make it as good as it can be.
Edit: Problem with gaming and the world in general is entitled people thinking others owe them something. Unless you are on top of the food chain, expect to be paying with your time-money-energy to someone else for a bit of reward in return. That's life.
A lot of cry babies on here, but that's to be expected. Personally I'm most excited for EQN specifically because it's going in a completely different direction than other MMOs.
Horizontal progression alone has me very interested, because I'm sick of grinding content, getting to "end game" and just repeating the same old 2 or 3 raids/zones over and over while I wait for another carrot on a stick treadmill update. All while being barred from playing with my friends who aren't "the right level" or don't have "good enough gear".
With horizontal progression combined with emergent AI, rallying calls and shifting underground dungeons, I get the feeling that EQN will feel like the first true MMORPG. A game about adventure, exploration, roleplaying, partying when your friends without barriers, and just having fun in a living virtual world.
People here complaining about how EQN looks baffles me. I keep up on all MMO news and can't seem to find a single game that is anywhere near as interesting as what EQN is promising. If not EQN with it's horizontal progression, emergent AI, destructible environments, rallying calls, multiclassing/class customization, etc etc... well what game then?
What has you so entranced that it makes EQN not interest you? Because I don't see any.
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Change is hard. I will admit EQ is the game that engrossed me into the MMO world so it does have a special meaning to me. WHen i think of EQ i do think of class specific roles, groups, dungeons & raiding.
I have been trying to keep an open mind about this new version. WHile i do think that there are some great features, it also seems that they are also taking away the things that make the game EQ. IMO its like taking star wars, but removing light sabers. I dont know. It just feel swrong to me.
Originally posted by DMKano Originally posted by Azoth Originally posted by Allein Originally posted by DamonVile I think a mind wipe so people could play an mmo like it was their first time again, would be easier to build than a new mmo people here would actually like.
So true, nothing will please the majority here. People have such a narrow list of expectations that no game will ever make them happy. Sad really. I can see why people like one game or another (I don't like many myself) but some reasons are just silly.
Trying to please the majority is the problem. We need more niche games.
Can't create a niche game with a 100mil+ cost.
Remember that they scrapped the 2 previous versions - this project has drained SoE of many millions already.
and people say gamers don't really know what they want. look like SOE is clueless aout what they want then
Lets give it a shot and complain if we don't like it.
Remaking EQ would not be a big hit sadly, few potential players would go through the stuff we old MMOers did in the first MMOs.
Remaking EQ2 might work better but I did play it for 5 years, and I think the chance is about zero that they wouldn't use portals everywhere and even if they didn't SOE needs to try new stuff, that is what made them into an important MMO company from the beginning.
EQ was in many ways groundbreaking and trying something never before done might not be a bad strategy as long as they are able to make it fun and actually make a better coded engine than EQ2 (it actually ran worse than AoC FPS wise right after AoC was released on my computer back then).
If it sucks then I will be with you guys but I actually will give the game a chance first even if some features sounds a bit weird.
Originally posted by delete5230 First I'll say, I don't know much about this MMO. But the little I do, I don't like it at all. I may be slightly off track on my negatives listed below. But everything about this game turns me off. - Fully destructible world, I know players are screaming for a change, but this isn't it ! - F2P turns me right off, leave it to SOE to pull this crap. - Few abilities on your bar ?.....I hate this in the more recent mmo's.....Maybe it's just me, but I like versatility in both talent builds and like to choose and be in control of how I play......I like having something to look forward to, More abilities, not just some minor enhancements. - What's so bad about class roles ? It works and it will always work, it has nothing to do with old style. - The marketing. Now I know developers like to give long notice about there product. But I don't think SOE even knows much about what they will eventually give us. I would like to see a real remake of EQ2. Open world and non instanced, Very cool abilities, something never thought of yet. Vanguard had done this, they were innovative, it's just that it ran like dog poo !.....When I first found out about EQ Next, I figured great !....Until I started reading about it.
Be careful or you will be called a dinosaur here. The so called mmo is evolving now in to what the a.d.d. crowd of gamers want now. No thinking or learning to play anymore. Less skills on the bar so its not so hard for them.
Originally posted by Hariken Originally posted by delete5230 First I'll say, I don't know much about this MMO. But the little I do, I don't like it at all. I may be slightly off track on my negatives listed below. But everything about this game turns me off. - Fully destructible world, I know players are screaming for a change, but this isn't it ! - F2P turns me right off, leave it to SOE to pull this crap. - Few abilities on your bar ?.....I hate this in the more recent mmo's.....Maybe it's just me, but I like versatility in both talent builds and like to choose and be in control of how I play......I like having something to look forward to, More abilities, not just some minor enhancements. - What's so bad about class roles ? It works and it will always work, it has nothing to do with old style. - The marketing. Now I know developers like to give long notice about there product. But I don't think SOE even knows much about what they will eventually give us. I would like to see a real remake of EQ2. Open world and non instanced, Very cool abilities, something never thought of yet. Vanguard had done this, they were innovative, it's just that it ran like dog poo !.....When I first found out about EQ Next, I figured great !....Until I started reading about it.
The a.d.d crowd, I think you may well have got the essence of it! This recent "trend" (which I think thankfully is already dead) toward "twitch" games... total crap there. $oE seems to have grabbed a bunch of what they thought was the "trends", or what was "cool" and mashed them together, the whole "parkour" thing is the perfect example! I'll keep a eye on this but any hope I had that this game is going to be good... there's not much left.
Personally I would love a Vanguard 2.0 but I would settle for a well made EQ3.
I will not spend a cent on EQN or any other game that tries to cater to everyone, instead of focusing on a quality game for a select audience, like EQ/VG and many other older games did.
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If the original EverQuest was a slight variation of what was already out there at the time would we be having this conversation? Would I play an updated version of the original EQ? I sure would. Would it be as interesting as what EQN is hoping to have with AI and a voxel world? No. I understand the frustration towards the easy mode themeparks we've been fed lately, and share them, but we need actual innovation more. Hopefully....hopefully... EQN does have some sort of difficulty curve.
Regarding the twitch combat it has nothing to do with ADD or lowest common denominator ridiculousness. It's about being engaged in the combat more than skill rotations and RNG. Is the GW2/WS style enough? No, IMO there needs to be ability "tiers" where the player can make in combat decisions and there is more complexity.
I would like to see both, EQ:N as a beautiful sand box MMO living world, and EQ3 as a tried and true themepark with open world raids and dungeons like the original. There is no reason they shouldn't and can't make both to appeal to both types of gamers.
The Everquest franchise remains one of the strongest and best MMORPG series out there imo. EQ:N isn't going to kill EQ, much like ESO won't kill ES, and the sooner people realize there is plenty of space of both Sandbox and Themepark MMO's out there, the better off we will be. Neither way is technically "right" for MMO design, it's all subjective opinions. Both styles of games appeal to me, I will give any game under the sun a fair shot.
Isn't it time we start accepting games for what they are instead of demanding developers make what we want personally instead of what is best for the game and the genre?
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIVHave played: You name itIf you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
Originally posted by DMKano EQN is the 3rd iteration, the 2 previous iterations were EQ3 basically. SOE is hoping to bring in a wide audience to EQN for max profit. It will be an ultra casual game, most likely not even a true MMORPG like EQ1 and 2. I expect EQN to be a massive disappointment to EQ fans. I mean if H1Z1 is their idea of a game for SWG fans, it should tell you how out of touch they are.
Spot on DMkano I have said the same since I realised that H1Z1 is the game he was talking about when he said SWG players can come home. He has no frigging clue what he is talking about and he is the biggest reason I am nervous about how bad EQ Next is going to be.
Originally posted by Dihoru You guys keep coming back up to the top demanding EQ 3.0 when EQ 1 spawned WoW. Enough of the theme parks, anything is better than color between the lines or get bent over a rock and violated by trolls games. You do not like the way this game is going? Tough we had 10 years of EQ and WoW knock-offs with barely anything else, time for something new not milk the nostalgic fans game nr 3747658384.
Spot on. How many WoW/EQ clones do we need before they realize that we want EQN, not another rehash of the same-old game.
Originally posted by Gallus85 Originally posted by Dihoru You guys keep coming back up to the top demanding EQ 3.0 when EQ 1 spawned WoW. Enough of the theme parks, anything is better than color between the lines or get bent over a rock and violated by trolls games. You do not like the way this game is going? Tough we had 10 years of EQ and WoW knock-offs with barely anything else, time for something new not milk the nostalgic fans game nr 3747658384.
If there were as many EQ clones out there as everyone seems to claim I wouldn't still be looking for an MMO to play.
Played: EQ1 (10 Years), Guild Wars, Rift, TERATried: EQ2, Vanguard, Lord of the Rings Online, Dungeons and Dragons Online, Runes of Magic and countless others...Currently Playing: GW2
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Originally posted by Trudge34 Originally posted by Gallus85 Originally posted by Dihoru You guys keep coming back up to the top demanding EQ 3.0 when EQ 1 spawned WoW. Enough of the theme parks, anything is better than color between the lines or get bent over a rock and violated by trolls games. You do not like the way this game is going? Tough we had 10 years of EQ and WoW knock-offs with barely anything else, time for something new not milk the nostalgic fans game nr 3747658384.
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Most of the major MMORPGs that have launched over the past 15 years have been near carbon copies of EQ, with a small twist or added gimmick.
Does any of this sound familiar?
-Create a character that is of a "class", which fits into 1 of 3 or 4 "roles".
-Level up through a vertical progression system that trivializes old content.
-Do this by either killing monsters, completing "quests" or a combination of the two.
-Obtain gear that increases your stats in a vertical manner.
-Once you've climbed the vertical level ladder, kill "raid" mobs, with large groups of other players to obtain better gear to further increase your vertical progression.
-Once you have the best gear and max level, wait until the next expansion releases that has more levels and gear to obtain. Kill time by PvPing, role playing, farting around, making alts, etc.
This is the EQ model. If you've played more than 1 or 2 MMOs over the past 15 years, these core features should sound extremely familiar as this basic elements make up that vast majority of MMORPGs on the market.
As a day one 1999 veteran of EQ myself, I understand why you're confused. EQ is special for many of us because it was one of our first MMOs. It was new, exciting, challenging. But even though I can list out everything that made up EQ, and can point to a ton of other games that are "new" but hold to the same formula... it's not the same. We've been there and done that, so they fail to capture that sense of wonder and excitement EQ gave us. So nothing trying to be EQ, even if it's everything EQ was and more, is not good enough.
The fact that you don't think there are any EQ clones out there points to two possibilities.
1. You don't branch out and play many MMORPGs.
2. You actually don't want a "New EQ". You want to time travel and replay "Your first MMO" before you got bored of it and went looking around for a new game to recapture the nostalgia that you feel for EQ.
There are lots of games that have done what EQ did and then some, but you're still not happy. This is why people like you need EQN. Something new and different to recapture that "fresh feeling". It's clear that more EQ clones will not satisfy you.
While I don't wish to relive the past, I sure would love to have the free time I had back then. No way I could play early EQ with my schedule today. I could be a casual player just hanging out, but to really play took a crazy amount of time and dedication needing to camp, raid, grind, corpse run, etc just doesn't fit anymore for me.
I remember setting alarms for 4am to get up to check a spawn. I was in my late teens/early twenties when I played EQ and early mmos, college and eventually work took over. Even now that I'm settled, still couldn't see myself doing 30+ hours a week for vertical rewards that are made pointless every expansion or update.
While I don't like how many mmorpgs have become basically lobby games, I do see the appeal. Even more so of how MOBAs and FPS games have exploded and cast a long shadow over the mmorpg genre in popularity.
For those of you longing for and that have the time for EQ 3, feel free to mail me some free time
Originally posted by Gallus85
Looking at my sig, it's pretty obvious this one isn't true.
No, I would really like a "New EQ." There's a reason I try out many of the newer MMOs, find them lacking because it's just the same hub to hub gameplay that's been in existence since WoW, and go back to my custom servers I've played since I quit the real EQ.
While the core class, progression 1-x, raid is similar I don't think any game I've tried did it in the style of EQ. There's a core gameplay style that just isn't the same. Hub to hub, questing to level up solo play style that has been basically the core gameplay element has to go. I'm open to new things and really looking forward to more EQN news, but a polished up EQ I'd welcome with open arms as well. I still get that feeling of adventure I don't get from other games while playing EQ I don't get from other games, so it's not just nostalgia fueling it.
I won't even comment on Nan's post.
Originally posted by zanfire Im kind of on both sides in a way. I would much rather something more old school with some more recent updates (i was big on EQOA and FFXI...nothing has kept me for even a fraction of time as those). Of course some of the things they suggest still sound amusing enough for me to at least give it a try, so i will, but chances are i will tire of it fast (if it ends up too damn casual/ for the masses as most games have been recently. Nowadays i just hope for MMOs these days will just keep some of the old stuff i liked and try to get over the overdone "me too" designs. I still find it funny that pretty much every MM) trys so hard to "be for the masses" yet almost every single one since WoW blew up has either shut down or went F2P and scraping by 6-12 months later. If i was making an MMO i would point that out and build a game that would appeal to the niche and craft my budget around that fact, instead of blowing 100s of millions on the same thing as everyone else with some tweaks.
Maybe the real issue is that the developers haven't learned what the masses really want any more than those who poll it on this website. I see a lot of lambasting aimed at casual gamers, yet most casual games are hardly that in the eyes of casual gamers as they are subjected to many types of content and mechanics that are far from casual friendly, whether it's raiding with little or no alternative at end game or forced pvp in a pve game or having to deal with stupidly low drop rates for quest items or competition for quest related npc's and items. Let alone the recent departure from roleplaying and focusing too much on combat and action combat at that, with few if any systems beyond the hack and slash formula (something I consider to be very casual unfriendly).
Personally, I think so many gamers and developers are so hung up on time limited gaming that they forget that it's completely different from playing casually. So now we have all this misdirected development toward an audience that doesn't exist and they end up alienating both casuals and hardcores and many of the in betweens. The trend toward console style gaming doesn't help either. Piss poor quality can also be a factor, but something tells me that many times that is mistakenly labeled due to incorrect audience selection.