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  • RamanadjinnRamanadjinn Huntsville, ALPosts: 1,365Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Dreamo84

    My personal opinion on why they won't have a PvE server is because they know too many people would play on it.

    Generally, given a choice more people prefer optional consensual PvP. The problem with a game like this, is the core open PvP servers absolutely require a large amount of active players. It's basically a way to force the PvEers to join with the PvP crowd. I personally think it will ultimately backfire. But since they aren't developing this game themselves, their actual investment might be small enough they can afford to have a relatively small player base and still make money.

    The PvP crowd is always against PvE servers, because they know they need the PvEers too. Not necessarily to "gank" but to just give them more numbers in general and help separate all the predators from the prey.

    A forest full of 100 wolves and 10 deer is less fun for the wolves than 100 deer and 10 wolves.

    On the same note, a forest full of 100 deer and no wolves is far more fun for the deer than a forest with any wolves in it. lol

     

    It has nothing to do with opinions, preferences, or anything like that.  The game is designed such that it doesn't work without PVP on a fundamental level.  This game isn't just a reskinned version of WOW where you can just flip a switch to turn PVP off and the game works the same but without PVP.

    You seem to like metaphors.

    Imagine a forest full of 100 wolves and you are playing a deer.  Imagine if you can get through the forest the game rewards you with a big lump of gold that you use to buy stuff from other deer with.  Imagine getting this gold is the main point of the game.

    Now imagine the wolves are gone.

    Every deer now has infinite gold and the game is ruined.

    That is how Archeage works.  You can't just give everyone a license to print free money and expect the game to not crash and burn.

    There is a reason Trion isn't doing PVE servers.  You guys need to understand its not because they hate you and they think you need to be more "hardcore" and stop being a "carebear."  Its because the game doesn't work that way.

  • DihoruDihoru ConstantaPosts: 2,731Member
    Originally posted by Sinella
    Originally posted by Dihoru
    Originally posted by Madimorga

    It seems a lot of people want an OWPVP sandbox.  They're getting Archeage.

     

    But I can tell from reading forums a lot of us want a sandbox without gankers.  We have money, too.  Sooner rather than later, some smart devs are going to figure that out and sell us what we want.  Meanwhile, sorry to those who spent money on this without doing enough homework, for everyone else, keep your wallets closed until someone is selling what you want to buy.

    Wurm Online, A tale in the desert, Landmark and there are many more out there but who's names I cannot remember at this hour. There are plenty of PVE sandboxes around but the greatest currently launched is Wurm and the others are in similar straights to their PVP focused counterparts, tells you something, does it not?

    Wurm currently launched ? It launched in 2006 lol. Developed by 1 person, with awful character graphics ( environment graphics is better). A Tale in the desert ? It launched in 2003, even worse graphics than Wurm, developed by 1 person ( I've heard he sold the game recently), plus the game resets in every 1.5-2 years, so your character and all your progress gets deleted. Landmark hasn't launched yet. So please try to find another PvE sandbox which is not ancient with awful graphics and is available. Thank you. I have been trying to find one for years, so that would be a great help.

    There's a reason for that: Extremes ( PVE or PVP ) do not attract large crowds and lose many of those fast too, many call EVE a cesspool or such derogative terms because, in their mind, it is exactly like MO or even DFUW but in truth EVE is the only game on the market to have sandbox elements and a balance of PVP and PVE without either really dominating the game ( those thousand dollar ganks are against people who try to enforce gear progression upon the game).

    True PVE or PVP sandboxes died not because of griefers or carebears but because they do not offer that much in the way of their opposite's features, first game to blend both sides like EVE does already will be another hit or sleeper hit ( depending on Dev clout here )

    image
  • gelraengelraen Vancouver, BCPosts: 227Member
    Originally posted by Ramanadjinn
    Originally posted by Dreamo84

    My personal opinion on why they won't have a PvE server is because they know too many people would play on it.

    Generally, given a choice more people prefer optional consensual PvP. The problem with a game like this, is the core open PvP servers absolutely require a large amount of active players. It's basically a way to force the PvEers to join with the PvP crowd. I personally think it will ultimately backfire. But since they aren't developing this game themselves, their actual investment might be small enough they can afford to have a relatively small player base and still make money.

    The PvP crowd is always against PvE servers, because they know they need the PvEers too. Not necessarily to "gank" but to just give them more numbers in general and help separate all the predators from the prey.

    A forest full of 100 wolves and 10 deer is less fun for the wolves than 100 deer and 10 wolves.

    On the same note, a forest full of 100 deer and no wolves is far more fun for the deer than a forest with any wolves in it. lol

     

    It has nothing to do with opinions, preferences, or anything like that.  The game is designed such that it doesn't work without PVP on a fundamental level.  This game isn't just a reskinned version of WOW where you can just flip a switch to turn PVP off and the game works the same but without PVP.

    You seem to like metaphors.

    Imagine a forest full of 100 wolves and you are playing a deer.  Imagine if you can get through the forest the game rewards you with a big lump of gold that you use to buy stuff from other deer with.  Imagine getting this gold is the main point of the game.

    Now imagine the wolves are gone.

    Every deer now has infinite gold and the game is ruined.

    That is how Archeage works.  You can't just give everyone a license to print free money and expect the game to not crash and burn.

    There is a reason Trion isn't doing PVE servers.  You guys need to understand its not because they hate you and they think you need to be more "hardcore" and stop being a "carebear."  Its because the game doesn't work that way.

    I agree with some of what you say, but also you could say the same about the sheep being gone.  The game most definitely depends on a large range of players from pure PvE to hardcore PvPers.  There's something for everyone.  The beauty of how it's set up though is that you can play with the style you like and slowly ease your way out of your comfort zone.  Play mostly PvE and then dabble in PvP via trade runs, etc. at your own pace.  I think it's a nice balance.

  • greatskysgreatskys marlboroughPosts: 449Member

    Sound to me like the OP wants either a pve game or  a carebear pvp one . Plenty of those about for him to choose from . Thankfully given he hates it Archeage might actually have something new to offer . 

    I'm sure he will be happier in Final Fantasty 14 with its decent pve or WoW with is decent carebear PVP . 

  • PhryPhry HampshirePosts: 6,295Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by greatskys

    Sound to me like the OP wants either a pve game or  a carebear pvp one . Plenty of those about for him to choose from . Thankfully given he hates it Archeage might actually have something new to offer . 

    I'm sure he will be happier in Final Fantasty 14 with its decent pve or WoW with is decent carebear PVP . 

    Which probably highlights why FFXIV;ARR is a far more popular game than Archeage, by far the majority of MMO players, prefer PVE related games, its the one constant that all developers have to bear in mind, thats not to say that there is not a place for PVP orientated games, but more an indication as to how popular they will be, and sadly for those games that have forced PVP as Archeage does, it further relegates into a much smaller Niche than those games that combine PVE with optional PVP. The problem for Archeage however, is that while the PVP orientated players need the PVE players, the reverse is not true, and the more they try to integrate the two types of players, by forcing PVE players to take part in PVP through game mechanics, the more likely the PVE players are to leave. The only ones to benefit are games like FFXIV;ARR oddly enough, one of many games that does cater to the PVE orientated player, and may gain a few extra players because of it.image

  • negativf4kknegativf4kk WorthingPosts: 377Member Uncommon

    there is NO forced PvP in AA, there are people who just to lazy to explore PvE content.

     

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  • eyesadieyesadi East Berlin, CTPosts: 46Member Uncommon

    Great post P!  Could not agree more.  Again, to me it just seems so silly for ANY company to purposely limit their market so severely.

    I have no doubt Beta will be PACKED.

    As I also have no doubt that by the time they release, absent some serious changes, the game will be a wasteland.  Why would anyone spend an hour or more making the trade pack only to lose it rather quickly upon trying to deliver it?  What am I missing here?  Does Trion REALLY think they are going to get Patrons with that mechanic in place?  

    Come to think of it.......does the pvp'er even really need patron status to have their fun?  Hmmmm.....

    I keep hearing it's all about "risk versus reward"!  

    So why is all the risk on us pve carebears and all the reward on pvp gankers?

    Tell me what the pvp'er risks as opposed to the pve'er?

    I also loved the posts saying we will never get a pve server as it would be to popular! 

    DUH.....

    Can any game company ever have a game thats to popular?  

    Ask Blizzard?

  • eyesadieyesadi East Berlin, CTPosts: 46Member Uncommon

    No forced PVP?  Strange comment.  I suppose you could argue that if you just stay on you continent and avoid the war times?

    But I'd have to argue that there most definitely is forced PVP IN the game.........

    Try and cross the Sea and tell me there is no forced PVP.....or simply try and gather on other than your home continent.

    Seems I am not being given any option NOT to PVP?  Is that not forced PVP?

  • itchmonitchmon west islip, NYPosts: 1,714Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by OminousDawn
    Originally posted by DMKano
    Originally posted by OminousDawn

    You don't know this.  Very few, If any, F2P PvE MMORPG's release active player base numbers.  We do know, for a fact, that many of them have released subscriber numbers totaling in the millions.  GW2, TERA, FFXIV, to name a few.  And there are many more. 

     

    Oh but we DO know this - none have released active player numbers - those million figures are registered accounts which is meaningless.

    If those games had active # of players in the millions - they would have a LOT more servers because when you have a couple of million players daily - you'd need a shit ton of servers to handle so many concurrent users.

    The fact that all of the games have shrunk or added very few servers means they don't have millions of active players.

    That's how we know.

     

     

    That is all speculation.  Players come and go.  These are F2P and B2P games.  Meaning players come and go.  That is why its so unpredictable.

    BTW, how many servers does Eve have?

    Exactly.

    if eve servers were setup like wow servers, eve would have roughly 20 servers.

    RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.

    Currently Playing EVE, DFUW

    Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.

    Dwight D Eisenhower

    My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.

    Henry Rollins

  • Silt1Silt1 ButtfucknowherePosts: 12Member
    I really don't understand your issue here. Why does every game have to cater to your tastes? The developers knew what they were doing when they made this game and when they implemented the patch. If the game they designed and envisioned has a specific demographic I imagine they're fine with that. I am sick of people whining on forums unable to accept that the latest mmo might just not be for them. So instead of just accepting that like a reasonable person they start posts like this with every possible rationalisation as to why the game should be changed to cater to them and people with their taste. There are plenty of games out there friend, move on.
  • DihoruDihoru ConstantaPosts: 2,731Member
    Originally posted by eyesadi

    No forced PVP?  Strange comment.  I suppose you could argue that if you just stay on you continent and avoid the war times?

    But I'd have to argue that there most definitely is forced PVP IN the game.........

    Try and cross the Sea and tell me there is no forced PVP.....or simply try and gather on other than your home continent.

    Seems I am not being given any option NOT to PVP?  Is that not forced PVP?

    Forced implies you are forced to experience every part of the game to meet the goal of it but here's a shocker: in games like AA and EVE you choose your goal and how you do that may force you to interact with PVPers in one way or another but how about you adept instead of bitching ad nauseum ? You have to be a little stuck up your own exhaust to go into a game and demand to be catered to especially in this day and age where PVE centric games number in the dozens or even hundreds. You do not want to adapt? Move on, plenty more games out there.

     

    Edit: And before anyone says that I played EVE online for nigh on a decade before taking a pause from it: Yeah as a PVE centric player, did a 2 year stint in 0.0 during the first great eve war and the 2nd, I lived around constant war, became adapt at moving unseen and did my thing with barely 3 lost ship in all those years. If anyone wants proof how non-PVP orientated I am I can supply a KB and contacts still in EVE which can attest I also never had an alt. EVE is the best game for both kinds of player if they go in ready for anything and without a stick up their arse if they have to dabble in their other's field.

    image
  • RamanadjinnRamanadjinn Huntsville, ALPosts: 1,365Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by eyesadi

     

    I also loved the posts saying we will never get a pve server as it would be to popular! 

    DUH.....

     

     

    Did you not read my last post?  Have you read the thread?

    I've explained several times on this site why Archeage doesn't have a PVE server.  There are good reasons for it.

    Address them rather than rebutting a fake argument you created.

     

    Anyone can refute an argument that they get to make up thesmselves.

  • eyesadieyesadi East Berlin, CTPosts: 46Member Uncommon

    We're really going around and around the same issues here.

    To be clear on my thoughts.

    I do NOT expect any game to cater to my wants and/or needs.  And I agree that if one does not like a game, it's very easy to just move on.  There are many, many choices these days.

    This game is the first one to come along in a long time that is DIFFERENT.  I so want to see it survive and prosper.

    Korea is failing.....Russia is failing........

    Does anyone care?  Why do we think, if we follow the same path, that we will succeed?  Even my detractors here must concede there are more pve'ers that pvp'ers?

    Trion should be trying to strike a balance here, try and keep both camps happy?  The game WILL NOT SURVIVE with only PVP'ers.  Pvp'ers NEED their supply of sheep.  And we will not, trust me, we will not be subbing under the current rule set.  I have already lost several guildies out of the frustration........

    I ask again.....strange that no one has offered a response.......What is the RISK for the PVP crowd?  We do all the work so they can get their jollies by ganking me?  

    At the very least their has to be SOME risk involved for them?

    Can we at least agree on THAT?

  • MadimorgaMadimorga Atlanta, GAPosts: 1,887Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Dihoru
    Originally posted by Madimorga

    It seems a lot of people want an OWPVP sandbox.  They're getting Archeage.

     

    But I can tell from reading forums a lot of us want a sandbox without gankers.  We have money, too.  Sooner rather than later, some smart devs are going to figure that out and sell us what we want.  Meanwhile, sorry to those who spent money on this without doing enough homework, for everyone else, keep your wallets closed until someone is selling what you want to buy.

    Wurm Online, A tale in the desert, Landmark and there are many more out there but who's names I cannot remember at this hour. There are plenty of PVE sandboxes around but the greatest currently launched is Wurm and the others are in similar straights to their PVP focused counterparts, tells you something, does it not?

    I play Landmark, it's in its infancy, the rest, in MMO terms, are quite ancient.  I'm hoping a new, ganker free sandbox/sandpark will be released sooner rather than later.  You have your game now, why begrudge me mine?

     

    But it's true the sandbox dollar isn't where the themepark dollar is for PvP or PvE.  That might change, though.  People might just get sick of questing and raiding eventually.  

    image

    I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.

    ~Albert Einstein

  • MadimorgaMadimorga Atlanta, GAPosts: 1,887Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ramanadjinn
    Originally posted by Dreamo84

    My personal opinion on why they won't have a PvE server is because they know too many people would play on it.

    Generally, given a choice more people prefer optional consensual PvP. The problem with a game like this, is the core open PvP servers absolutely require a large amount of active players. It's basically a way to force the PvEers to join with the PvP crowd. I personally think it will ultimately backfire. But since they aren't developing this game themselves, their actual investment might be small enough they can afford to have a relatively small player base and still make money.

    The PvP crowd is always against PvE servers, because they know they need the PvEers too. Not necessarily to "gank" but to just give them more numbers in general and help separate all the predators from the prey.

    A forest full of 100 wolves and 10 deer is less fun for the wolves than 100 deer and 10 wolves.

    On the same note, a forest full of 100 deer and no wolves is far more fun for the deer than a forest with any wolves in it. lol

     

    It has nothing to do with opinions, preferences, or anything like that.  The game is designed such that it doesn't work without PVP on a fundamental level.  This game isn't just a reskinned version of WOW where you can just flip a switch to turn PVP off and the game works the same but without PVP.

    You seem to like metaphors.

    Imagine a forest full of 100 wolves and you are playing a deer.  Imagine if you can get through the forest the game rewards you with a big lump of gold that you use to buy stuff from other deer with.  Imagine getting this gold is the main point of the game.

    Now imagine the wolves are gone.

    Every deer now has infinite gold and the game is ruined.

    That is how Archeage works.  You can't just give everyone a license to print free money and expect the game to not crash and burn.

    There is a reason Trion isn't doing PVE servers.  You guys need to understand its not because they hate you and they think you need to be more "hardcore" and stop being a "carebear."  Its because the game doesn't work that way.

    This analogy doesn't work because the PvP crowd ends up controlling all the resources and setting all the prices on anything worth having.  The deer have nothing and very quickly realize they have no reason to play at all.

    image

    I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.

    ~Albert Einstein

  • An4thorAn4thor RomaPosts: 524Member
    Originally posted by Madimorga
    Originally posted by Ramanadjinn
    Originally posted by Dreamo84

    My personal opinion on why they won't have a PvE server is because they know too many people would play on it.

    Generally, given a choice more people prefer optional consensual PvP. The problem with a game like this, is the core open PvP servers absolutely require a large amount of active players. It's basically a way to force the PvEers to join with the PvP crowd. I personally think it will ultimately backfire. But since they aren't developing this game themselves, their actual investment might be small enough they can afford to have a relatively small player base and still make money.

    The PvP crowd is always against PvE servers, because they know they need the PvEers too. Not necessarily to "gank" but to just give them more numbers in general and help separate all the predators from the prey.

    A forest full of 100 wolves and 10 deer is less fun for the wolves than 100 deer and 10 wolves.

    On the same note, a forest full of 100 deer and no wolves is far more fun for the deer than a forest with any wolves in it. lol

     

    It has nothing to do with opinions, preferences, or anything like that.  The game is designed such that it doesn't work without PVP on a fundamental level.  This game isn't just a reskinned version of WOW where you can just flip a switch to turn PVP off and the game works the same but without PVP.

    You seem to like metaphors.

    Imagine a forest full of 100 wolves and you are playing a deer.  Imagine if you can get through the forest the game rewards you with a big lump of gold that you use to buy stuff from other deer with.  Imagine getting this gold is the main point of the game.

    Now imagine the wolves are gone.

    Every deer now has infinite gold and the game is ruined.

    That is how Archeage works.  You can't just give everyone a license to print free money and expect the game to not crash and burn.

    There is a reason Trion isn't doing PVE servers.  You guys need to understand its not because they hate you and they think you need to be more "hardcore" and stop being a "carebear."  Its because the game doesn't work that way.

    This analogy doesn't work because the PvP crowd ends up controlling all the resources and setting all the prices on anything worth having.  The deer have nothing and very quickly realize they have no reason to play at all.

    There are things called guilds. You can be the farmer and do nothing but that all day while everyone else gather the other resources and at the end of the day you share stuff.

    If there is one thing that WoW and other MMos promoted was selfishness. If you are selfish you are going to have a very hard time in this game.

  • ReaperUkReaperUk Cambridgeshire, UKPosts: 657Member Uncommon

    Despite what so many people on this forum would have you believe, PvP in Archeage always has been  a minority activity and presumably always will be. Nothing in the latest patch made PvE less viable. Gilda Stars are even easier to obtain now simply by doing daily quests. Making a game exclusively enjoyable for PvPers is not exactly a recipe for financial success, which is why Archeage doesn't.  Even the people who describe themselves as PvP players, in reality spend most of their time doing PvE activities such as questing, crafting, farming, foraging, mining, trading, fishing etc. as they are the core gameplay features. In fact, it's not unusual to see people complaining in faction chat about how boring the PvP is.

    The game is very similar to SWG in as much as it has great open world PvP for people who want it but is completely avoidable for those who don't.  Where SWG had the flagging system, Archeage doesn't but instead has seven out of the twelve regions in your continent PvP free at all time, a further two out five are safe a lot of the time leaving just three out of twelve PvP enabled most of the time.

    The oceans are the only places permanently PvP enabled but there is no reason to go there if you don't want to, apart from just one quest that most people will want to complete for the large farm deed.

  • DihoruDihoru ConstantaPosts: 2,731Member
    Originally posted by An4thor
    Originally posted by Madimorga
    Originally posted by Ramanadjinn
    Originally posted by Dreamo84

    My personal opinion on why they won't have a PvE server is because they know too many people would play on it.

    Generally, given a choice more people prefer optional consensual PvP. The problem with a game like this, is the core open PvP servers absolutely require a large amount of active players. It's basically a way to force the PvEers to join with the PvP crowd. I personally think it will ultimately backfire. But since they aren't developing this game themselves, their actual investment might be small enough they can afford to have a relatively small player base and still make money.

    The PvP crowd is always against PvE servers, because they know they need the PvEers too. Not necessarily to "gank" but to just give them more numbers in general and help separate all the predators from the prey.

    A forest full of 100 wolves and 10 deer is less fun for the wolves than 100 deer and 10 wolves.

    On the same note, a forest full of 100 deer and no wolves is far more fun for the deer than a forest with any wolves in it. lol

     

    It has nothing to do with opinions, preferences, or anything like that.  The game is designed such that it doesn't work without PVP on a fundamental level.  This game isn't just a reskinned version of WOW where you can just flip a switch to turn PVP off and the game works the same but without PVP.

    You seem to like metaphors.

    Imagine a forest full of 100 wolves and you are playing a deer.  Imagine if you can get through the forest the game rewards you with a big lump of gold that you use to buy stuff from other deer with.  Imagine getting this gold is the main point of the game.

    Now imagine the wolves are gone.

    Every deer now has infinite gold and the game is ruined.

    That is how Archeage works.  You can't just give everyone a license to print free money and expect the game to not crash and burn.

    There is a reason Trion isn't doing PVE servers.  You guys need to understand its not because they hate you and they think you need to be more "hardcore" and stop being a "carebear."  Its because the game doesn't work that way.

    This analogy doesn't work because the PvP crowd ends up controlling all the resources and setting all the prices on anything worth having.  The deer have nothing and very quickly realize they have no reason to play at all.

    There are things called guilds. You can be the farmer and do nothing but that all day while everyone else gather the other resources and at the end of the day you share stuff.

    If there is one thing that WoW and other MMos promoted was selfishness. If you are selfish you are going to have a very hard time in this game.

    In EVE the other person on equal footing in terms of popularity with the infamous Mittani is Chirrba and he's basically the polar opposite of Mittens in almost every respect ( if rumors are true he is also the only player allowed to field capital ships in high sec conditioned upon the fact that they be fitted for mining only ).

    PVE extremists would have you believe PVPers rule the roost in EVE but that isn't true as the constant flux in 0.0 makes building permanent industrial bases impossible, most stuff comes into 0.0 from carebears in high-sec and wormhole space, you don't even have to step into 0.0 to enjoy the game fully but if you do there's an entire coalition of PVP/PVE-RP people in Providence that has survived there since time immemorial and kept their space safer sometimes than even than high sec.

    image
  • MadimorgaMadimorga Atlanta, GAPosts: 1,887Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by An4thor
    Originally posted by Madimorga
    Originally posted by Ramanadjinn
    Originally posted by Dreamo84

    My personal opinion on why they won't have a PvE server is because they know too many people would play on it.

    Generally, given a choice more people prefer optional consensual PvP. The problem with a game like this, is the core open PvP servers absolutely require a large amount of active players. It's basically a way to force the PvEers to join with the PvP crowd. I personally think it will ultimately backfire. But since they aren't developing this game themselves, their actual investment might be small enough they can afford to have a relatively small player base and still make money.

    The PvP crowd is always against PvE servers, because they know they need the PvEers too. Not necessarily to "gank" but to just give them more numbers in general and help separate all the predators from the prey.

    A forest full of 100 wolves and 10 deer is less fun for the wolves than 100 deer and 10 wolves.

    On the same note, a forest full of 100 deer and no wolves is far more fun for the deer than a forest with any wolves in it. lol

     

    It has nothing to do with opinions, preferences, or anything like that.  The game is designed such that it doesn't work without PVP on a fundamental level.  This game isn't just a reskinned version of WOW where you can just flip a switch to turn PVP off and the game works the same but without PVP.

    You seem to like metaphors.

    Imagine a forest full of 100 wolves and you are playing a deer.  Imagine if you can get through the forest the game rewards you with a big lump of gold that you use to buy stuff from other deer with.  Imagine getting this gold is the main point of the game.

    Now imagine the wolves are gone.

    Every deer now has infinite gold and the game is ruined.

    That is how Archeage works.  You can't just give everyone a license to print free money and expect the game to not crash and burn.

    There is a reason Trion isn't doing PVE servers.  You guys need to understand its not because they hate you and they think you need to be more "hardcore" and stop being a "carebear."  Its because the game doesn't work that way.

    This analogy doesn't work because the PvP crowd ends up controlling all the resources and setting all the prices on anything worth having.  The deer have nothing and very quickly realize they have no reason to play at all.

    There are things called guilds. You can be the farmer and do nothing but that all day while everyone else gather the other resources and at the end of the day you share stuff.

    If there is one thing that WoW and other MMos promoted was selfishness. If you are selfish you are going to have a very hard time in this game.

    True, social crafters might find a niche, in spite of the ease of rolling alts.  A lot of us don't enjoy being part of a guild at all, though, and some enjoy small, independent family and friend guilds that stand no chance against larger ones.

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    I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.

    ~Albert Einstein

  • DihoruDihoru ConstantaPosts: 2,731Member
    Originally posted by Madimorga
    Originally posted by An4thor
    Originally posted by Madimorga
    Originally posted by Ramanadjinn
    Originally posted by Dreamo84

    My personal opinion on why they won't have a PvE server is because they know too many people would play on it.

    Generally, given a choice more people prefer optional consensual PvP. The problem with a game like this, is the core open PvP servers absolutely require a large amount of active players. It's basically a way to force the PvEers to join with the PvP crowd. I personally think it will ultimately backfire. But since they aren't developing this game themselves, their actual investment might be small enough they can afford to have a relatively small player base and still make money.

    The PvP crowd is always against PvE servers, because they know they need the PvEers too. Not necessarily to "gank" but to just give them more numbers in general and help separate all the predators from the prey.

    A forest full of 100 wolves and 10 deer is less fun for the wolves than 100 deer and 10 wolves.

    On the same note, a forest full of 100 deer and no wolves is far more fun for the deer than a forest with any wolves in it. lol

     

    It has nothing to do with opinions, preferences, or anything like that.  The game is designed such that it doesn't work without PVP on a fundamental level.  This game isn't just a reskinned version of WOW where you can just flip a switch to turn PVP off and the game works the same but without PVP.

    You seem to like metaphors.

    Imagine a forest full of 100 wolves and you are playing a deer.  Imagine if you can get through the forest the game rewards you with a big lump of gold that you use to buy stuff from other deer with.  Imagine getting this gold is the main point of the game.

    Now imagine the wolves are gone.

    Every deer now has infinite gold and the game is ruined.

    That is how Archeage works.  You can't just give everyone a license to print free money and expect the game to not crash and burn.

    There is a reason Trion isn't doing PVE servers.  You guys need to understand its not because they hate you and they think you need to be more "hardcore" and stop being a "carebear."  Its because the game doesn't work that way.

    This analogy doesn't work because the PvP crowd ends up controlling all the resources and setting all the prices on anything worth having.  The deer have nothing and very quickly realize they have no reason to play at all.

    There are things called guilds. You can be the farmer and do nothing but that all day while everyone else gather the other resources and at the end of the day you share stuff.

    If there is one thing that WoW and other MMos promoted was selfishness. If you are selfish you are going to have a very hard time in this game.

    True, social crafters might find a niche, in spite of the ease of rolling alts.  A lot of us don't enjoy being part of a guild at all, though, and some enjoy small, independent family and friend guilds that stand no chance against larger ones.

    Use the core group to form the guild and get a few good people together around that. If you want to be antisocial in a MMO then I suggest terraria or minecraft single player with mods.

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  • GregorMcgregorGregorMcgregor FalkirkPosts: 222Member Uncommon

    Another game that's fell under the PvP hammer.

    Hope the doorhandles are happy.

    Hope this finally busts Trion, time to learn the hard way!

     

    No trials. No tricks. No traps. No EU-RP server. NO THANKS!

    image

    ...10% Benevolence, 90% Arrogance in my case!
  • MadimorgaMadimorga Atlanta, GAPosts: 1,887Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Dihoru
     

    Use the core group the form the guild and get a few good people together around that. If you want to be antisocial in a MMO then I suggest terraria or minecraft single player with mods.

     

    A lot of family and friend players don't want strangers in their guild, outside their core or not.  And it leads to bickering, favoritism, and I've noticed even more douchebaggery when guilds do form like that (and many or most do).

     

    In any case, we'll get our game eventually.  If people like me will stop being stupid and wasting money on games that don't fit our play style.  I am reformed.  Never again!  I might come goof around in these type of games for free (I am in Swordsman Online right now) but not a penny from my pocket will another ganker game get.  I do not exist to be content for PvPers.

     

    I'm glad I didn't shell out for this one, but I've been guilty of it in the past, so I'm not looking down on anyone who spent the $150 only to realize it was a mistake.  I sympathize.

     

    Edit:  Also, as someone pointed out I believe in this thread and as I have said before, it seems the ones who want to settle in and trade and farm will be the only ones who need to even pay a sub in this game.  What is to stop the gank and grief crowd from playing for free?  So not only are the 'deer' content for the 'wolves', in many case the deer will be the ones paying the subs! 

    image

    I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.

    ~Albert Einstein

  • rodarinrodarin camarillo, CAPosts: 576Member Uncommon

    This game is eerily similar to Fallen Earth. Except this game is stable. But it started put as some PvP wet dream with apretty awesome crafting system. But tweaks and changes and stupidity turned it into a niche game (at best). But it stayed sub a long time and even after going free to play has held on for even more time.

     

    So catering to a specific audience no matter how small, as long as they pay the bills these games will make money.

     

    I am sure trion was looking for a lot more but depending on who you believe they dont have a lot of control. Which is the biggest concern with this game. No one knows who can do what. So there is always the blame game and finger pointing. Both sides of the layers base blame both sides of the developer/publisher base. Some say Trion can make changes others say they cant no one knows for sure. All I know is they have to be smarter than this and they have to have SOME control over things if not it was another waste of time (and money sink) for them just like defiance was.

  • SinellaSinella BudapestPosts: 340Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Dihoru
    Originally posted by Sinella
    Originally posted by Dihoru
    Originally posted by Madimorga

    It seems a lot of people want an OWPVP sandbox.  They're getting Archeage.

     

    But I can tell from reading forums a lot of us want a sandbox without gankers.  We have money, too.  Sooner rather than later, some smart devs are going to figure that out and sell us what we want.  Meanwhile, sorry to those who spent money on this without doing enough homework, for everyone else, keep your wallets closed until someone is selling what you want to buy.

    Wurm Online, A tale in the desert, Landmark and there are many more out there but who's names I cannot remember at this hour. There are plenty of PVE sandboxes around but the greatest currently launched is Wurm and the others are in similar straights to their PVP focused counterparts, tells you something, does it not?

    Wurm currently launched ? It launched in 2006 lol. Developed by 1 person, with awful character graphics ( environment graphics is better). A Tale in the desert ? It launched in 2003, even worse graphics than Wurm, developed by 1 person ( I've heard he sold the game recently), plus the game resets in every 1.5-2 years, so your character and all your progress gets deleted. Landmark hasn't launched yet. So please try to find another PvE sandbox which is not ancient with awful graphics and is available. Thank you. I have been trying to find one for years, so that would be a great help.

    There's a reason for that: Extremes ( PVE or PVP ) do not attract large crowds and lose many of those fast too, many call EVE a cesspool or such derogative terms because, in their mind, it is exactly like MO or even DFUW but in truth EVE is the only game on the market to have sandbox elements and a balance of PVP and PVE without either really dominating the game ( those thousand dollar ganks are against people who try to enforce gear progression upon the game).

    True PVE or PVP sandboxes died not because of griefers or carebears but because they do not offer that much in the way of their opposite's features, first game to blend both sides like EVE does already will be another hit or sleeper hit ( depending on Dev clout here )

    You can't say that PvE sandboxes died since there hasn't been any ( apart of 1-person projects with awful graphics). Runescape is the closest one, and its still very succesful, although not that much as it used to be. And most if not all PvE sandbox fans doesn't mind PvP...what we hate is forced PvP. I would be more than happy if a PvE sandbox embraced consensual PvP...but where is that game.

    There are and were many attempts to create sandbox games but all of them are open world forced PvP. No wonder they fail. Can't wait for EQN and Landmark. Seems I'll skip Archeage, or wait for the PvE server which they will launch when they realize that their business is running low on PvPers only.

  • RamanadjinnRamanadjinn Huntsville, ALPosts: 1,365Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Madimorga
    Originally posted by Ramanadjinn
    Originally posted by Dreamo84

    My personal opinion on why they won't have a PvE server is because they know too many people would play on it.

    Generally, given a choice more people prefer optional consensual PvP. The problem with a game like this, is the core open PvP servers absolutely require a large amount of active players. It's basically a way to force the PvEers to join with the PvP crowd. I personally think it will ultimately backfire. But since they aren't developing this game themselves, their actual investment might be small enough they can afford to have a relatively small player base and still make money.

    The PvP crowd is always against PvE servers, because they know they need the PvEers too. Not necessarily to "gank" but to just give them more numbers in general and help separate all the predators from the prey.

    A forest full of 100 wolves and 10 deer is less fun for the wolves than 100 deer and 10 wolves.

    On the same note, a forest full of 100 deer and no wolves is far more fun for the deer than a forest with any wolves in it. lol

     

    It has nothing to do with opinions, preferences, or anything like that.  The game is designed such that it doesn't work without PVP on a fundamental level.  This game isn't just a reskinned version of WOW where you can just flip a switch to turn PVP off and the game works the same but without PVP.

    You seem to like metaphors.

    Imagine a forest full of 100 wolves and you are playing a deer.  Imagine if you can get through the forest the game rewards you with a big lump of gold that you use to buy stuff from other deer with.  Imagine getting this gold is the main point of the game.

    Now imagine the wolves are gone.

    Every deer now has infinite gold and the game is ruined.

    That is how Archeage works.  You can't just give everyone a license to print free money and expect the game to not crash and burn.

    There is a reason Trion isn't doing PVE servers.  You guys need to understand its not because they hate you and they think you need to be more "hardcore" and stop being a "carebear."  Its because the game doesn't work that way.

    This analogy doesn't work because the PvP crowd ends up controlling all the resources and setting all the prices on anything worth having.  The deer have nothing and very quickly realize they have no reason to play at all.

     

    I'm sorry my analogy works.  I only described Archeage as it exists now in an effort to describe to the players asking for a PVE server why we will not see one.

    To remove the metaphor:

    Intercontinental trade is a way to make a lot of money in Archeage.  The fact that it is so lucrative is balanced only by the fact that there are players who kill traders for their goods and many merchants do not run merchant ships solo because of this fact.  It becomes a team effort.

    This means without PVP a player could load a merchant ship up solo and safely transport it to the other continent and receive maximum reward on each trade pack every single time.  Players could do this indefinitely and solo all night if they wish.

    This would be the equivalent of a button on the screen a player can click for free money.  Unlimited gold with no chance for loss.

    The game would die.

     

    My metaphor, my analogy, whatever you want to call it does not depend on any agreement from anyone.  The game simply works that way.  If you think that will cause the game to die so be it.  I never claimed anything in regards to this other than that this is one of the main reasons we will not see a PVE server.

This discussion has been closed.