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'We are the problem' - Moviebob

jpnzjpnz SydneyPosts: 3,529Member

In the latest Bob's feature on the escapistmagazine.com (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/the-big-picture/9491-Leave-Michael-Bay-Alone), MovieBob has a quote that rings true. 

'The audience is the problem but you aren't suppose to say that'.

The 6:30mins video is a look at the movie critics who come out and write 'articles' (lets be honest and say what it actually is; an attack piece to get clicks) on how evil Michael Bay is and how his latest blockbuster is a crime against humanity.

Movie Bob makes a statement to his fellow critics; we both know the attack articles on Michael Bay isn't about Michael Bay but its audience, the 'Joe Public'. But you aren't allowed to say that. A critic should never place the blame on why a movie succeeds and fails to where it belongs; the movie goers. And I know you know this because I am a movie critic as well so lets drop the lie.

 

You know what? Just substitute Michael Bay with Blizzard / NCSoft / EA etc and 'latest blockbuster' with 'Latest AAA MMO' and BAM! You have 90% of the thread here ranting about how WoW / themepark killed MMOs.

I personally don't think there is a 'problem' as I believe in such things as 'free market / capitalism' but it was uncanny on how close the comparison between the message of this video and most 'back in my day threads on this site' were.

Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

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Comments

  • ScalplessScalpless SnowballvillePosts: 1,395Member Uncommon

    It's mostly true. On the other hand, the video game industry seems to have severe problems with incompetence that aren't as pronounced in the movie industry. Michael Bay can keep making movies because he makes successful movies and it's ok. It becomes a problem when someone can keep making awful decisions from a financial standpoint and still remain in a position of influence. See: EA screwing up repeatedly and losing a ton of money while its overall structure stays roughly the same.

  • TheQuietGamerTheQuietGamer brightonPosts: 317Member

    For some reason I can't play that link.  

    I would say this, I hate CGI, hate it.  If a movie has excessive CGI I will never watch it.  If a movie has bad poorly utilised CGI (aka Micheal Bay) I will not watch it.  

    Movies these days are trying to sell to an international market, and the one language everyone understands is action and explosions everywhere.  That is largely why we have seen a decline in the quality of summer blockbusters.  However, these homogeneous CGI-laden shit-fests leave more of a niche market for quality films with characterisation, a compelling story, all of those old school qualities that were once fundamental to a good film.  

    The same can be true for mmo's. 

     

  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Elmira, ONPosts: 2,499Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Scalpless

    It's mostly true. On the other hand, the video game industry seems to have severe problems with incompetence that aren't as pronounced in the movie industry. Michael Bay can keep making movies because he makes successful movies and it's ok. It becomes a problem when someone can keep making awful decisions from a financial standpoint and still remain in a position of influence. See: EA screwing up repeatedly and losing a ton of money while its overall structure stays roughly the same.

    Nope, nope, it's exactly the same, actually. Maybe you should give you head a shake and look up some of EA's financial results for the past year, idk, like $700 million operating cash flow, nearly a half billion dollars in mobile revenues, with 130 million active monthly users. See, so EA really is JUST like Michael Bay.

     

     

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
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    ----------------

  • Viper482Viper482 Somewhere, FLPosts: 993Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jpnz

     

     

    You know what? Just substitute Michael Bay with Blizzard / NCSoft / EA etc and 'latest blockbuster' with 'Latest AAA MMO' and BAM! You have 90% of the thread here ranting about how WoW / themepark killed MMOs.

    I personally don't think there is a 'problem' as I believe in such things as 'free market / capitalism' but it was uncanny on how close the comparison between the message of this video and most 'back in my day threads on this site' were.

    I am really getting tired of the attacks on older MMO players on this site. Yes, we know "we" are the problem here, because obviously the masses are enjoying this ridiculous free to play hopscotch between soul-less MMOs.  We want our real MMO communities back that existed to be more than text in some general troll chat, all it will take is ONE game to give it to us and you can be rid of us...trust me on that. 

    You like where the genre is right now, good for you. We don't. If you expect us to just shut up and go away don't hold your breath....we were here first by the way.

  • lugallugal Escondido, CAPosts: 636Member Uncommon
    Gamers in general are idiots. Individually (we all know that certain game companies will releae game with day 1 dlc and the ever popular cash shop while providing less content) we know the companies are screwing us and telling us lies. Then we tell ourselves I will not buy from 'X' company ever again. Yet gamers will still buy 'X' companies crap.
    We do it to ourselves and deserve the crap we have. This can apply to movie studios and movie goers as well.

    Roses are red
    Violets are blue
    The reviewer has a mishapen head
    Which means his opinion is skewed
    ...Aldous.MF'n.Huxley

  • AldersAlders Jack Burton'sPosts: 1,857Member Uncommon

    There's a reason that the best films, or award winning films, rarely make the big bucks at the box office.

    The average consumer is an idiot.

    You have to go back over a decade before you get to a best picture winner that was also considered a blockbuster.  The average stupid movie makes more in the opening weekend than great movies make total.

    Obviously there are some exception and what's considered great is debatable but it's pretty clear what the mass market wants.  They want to turn off their brains and be entertained.  You don't have to look any further than Avatar to see that.

    Pretty similar to MMO's and the playerbase today.

  • DamonVileDamonVile Vancouver, BCPosts: 4,818Member
    Originally posted by Viper482
    Originally posted by jpnz

     

     

    You know what? Just substitute Michael Bay with Blizzard / NCSoft / EA etc and 'latest blockbuster' with 'Latest AAA MMO' and BAM! You have 90% of the thread here ranting about how WoW / themepark killed MMOs.

    I personally don't think there is a 'problem' as I believe in such things as 'free market / capitalism' but it was uncanny on how close the comparison between the message of this video and most 'back in my day threads on this site' were.

    I am really getting tired of the attacks on older MMO players on this site. Yes, we know "we" are the problem here, because obviously the masses are enjoying this ridiculous free to play hopscotch between soul-less MMOs.  We want our real MMO communities back that existed to be more than text in some general troll chat, all it will take is ONE game to give it to us and you can be rid of us...trust me on that. 

    You like where the genre is right now, good for you. We don't. If you expect us to just shut up and go away don't hold your breath....we were here first by the way.

    Who's we ? I was here way before you :P

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,904Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Originally posted by Viper482
    Originally posted by jpnz

     

     

    You know what? Just substitute Michael Bay with Blizzard / NCSoft / EA etc and 'latest blockbuster' with 'Latest AAA MMO' and BAM! You have 90% of the thread here ranting about how WoW / themepark killed MMOs.

    I personally don't think there is a 'problem' as I believe in such things as 'free market / capitalism' but it was uncanny on how close the comparison between the message of this video and most 'back in my day threads on this site' were.

    I am really getting tired of the attacks on older MMO players on this site. Yes, we know "we" are the problem here, because obviously the masses are enjoying this ridiculous free to play hopscotch between soul-less MMOs.  We want our real MMO communities back that existed to be more than text in some general troll chat, all it will take is ONE game to give it to us and you can be rid of us...trust me on that. 

    You like where the genre is right now, good for you. We don't. If you expect us to just shut up and go away don't hold your breath....we were here first by the way.

    Who's we ? I was here way before you :P

    Yeah what he said!

    Wait.. just realized we have the same exact join date lol.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • Solar_ProphetSolar_Prophet Columbus, OHPosts: 875Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by TheQuietGamer

    For some reason I can't play that link.  

    I would say this, I hate CGI, hate it.  If a movie has excessive CGI I will never watch it.  If a movie has bad poorly utilised CGI (aka Micheal Bay) I will not watch it.  

    Movies these days are trying to sell to an international market, and the one language everyone understands is action and explosions everywhere.  That is largely why we have seen a decline in the quality of summer blockbusters.  However, these homogeneous CGI-laden shit-fests leave more of a niche market for quality films with characterisation, a compelling story, all of those old school qualities that were once fundamental to a good film.  

    The same can be true for mmo's. 

     

    Agreed, to a point. Obviously films where practical effects wouldn't be, err, practical get a pass in my book though. The new Godzilla film is a prime example of this, as was Pacific Rim. Then again, those films spared no expense and the CG looks fantastic (especially Godzilla, best CG to date, period).

    But for every Godzilla, you unfortunately have 4 Transformers films which don't even attempt any sort of proper CG integration. They just slap a bunch of shiny robots on the screen in the cinematic equivalent of jingling your keys in front of a two year old to keep him / her busy. Not to say that mindless entertainment is always a bad thing, but the problem is that there's far too much of it being pushed out in the entertainment industry as a whole.

    If somebody spends ten bucks to see Transformers 4 and likes it, good on them. Sucks for those of us who may wish for something a little deeper, but if that's what the market wants, so be it. God knows I've saved a ton of cash due to the crappy overall quality of modern cinema, with only one or two films per year really warranting a view in the theater as opposed to whichever cable network picks them up first.

    Same with video games. Saved a ton of money by waiting a year or so for the GOTY edition with all the DLC included to go on sale for half what the original game itself cost at release.

    AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!

  • LudwikLudwik Rochester, NYPosts: 401Member Uncommon
    We are not the problem.

    There is a small 1% of the population that controls 99% of the money. They make all the decisions.

    Simple fact is this, if we stopped buying poor games they'd just find another way to rip the money from your pockets. Look at the FCC bailing on net neutrality, is there anyone here that actually think net neutrality is a bad thing? You'd be an idiot if you did.

    This 1% of the population wants you to be angry, they want you to blame the developers for shitty products, they want you to blame the kids for instant gratification, they want you to blame the bots, hacks, and cheats for exploiting and ruining your experience. While you turn a blind eye to the fact that 95% of the profits from EA and NC Soft are going to less than a handful of people.

    Blame them, they are the problem.
  • LissylLissyl Peru, INPosts: 271Member Common

    So...the problem is that we, the stupid moviegoers...erm, I mean, MMO players...are just too stupid to know what's good for us, what good really is, and why we play games in the first place. 

     

    ...yah, okay.  Or maybe, JUST MAYBE, the problem is that there's a group of individuals who think they know better than the people they're supposedly trying to serve and that, in their arrogance, that group of individuals actually doesn't know their audience at all.

     

    But that wouldn't fit this inane guy's diatribe about how terrible Transformers, or a AAA MMO, are now, would it?  And we all know messaging about what's good is something that has to be done and done right, because otherwise those stupid cretins who *gasp* play games wouldn't know what it is they're allowed to consider good.

  • jpnzjpnz SydneyPosts: 3,529Member
    Originally posted by Ludwik
    We are not the problem.

    There is a small 1% of the population that controls 99% of the money. They make all the decisions.

    Simple fact is this, if we stopped buying poor games they'd just find another way to rip the money from your pockets. Look at the FCC bailing on net neutrality, is there anyone here that actually think net neutrality is a bad thing? You'd be an idiot if you did.

    This 1% of the population wants you to be angry, they want you to blame the developers for shitty products, they want you to blame the kids for instant gratification, they want you to blame the bots, hacks, and cheats for exploiting and ruining your experience. While you turn a blind eye to the fact that 95% of the profits from EA and NC Soft are going to less than a handful of people.

    Blame them, they are the problem.

    This post makes no logical sense.

    So if 'we stopped buying' how would they 'rip the money'?

    Are people being forced to play MMOs?

    /Facepalm

    Gdemami -
    Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  • Silt1Silt1 ButtfucknowherePosts: 12Member

    Quick question, who made you and people like you the great arbiters of what people should enjoy? Most people could not care less that a movie/game/book lacked certain features or substance in some areas. You know why? They're there to enjoy themselves, simple as that. All of the points that you post here while occasionally valid won't stop this from being fact. They don't want depth or effort when it comes to their entertainment, they want a cheap distraction from their lives that they find enjoyable. There is a time, place and audience for masterpieces, niche titles etc. But games/movies/books of less substance will make more money and have a larger audience for these reasons and more.

    The audience is the problem, but a problem for whom? Not the large number of people enjoying themselves.

    Anyway that's my 2 cents. 

     

  • Tyvolus4Tyvolus4 lincoln, NEPosts: 175Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jpnz

    In the latest Bob's feature on the escapistmagazine.com (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/the-big-picture/9491-Leave-Michael-Bay-Alone), MovieBob has a quote that rings true. 

    'The audience is the problem but you aren't suppose to say that'.

    The 6:30mins video is a look at the movie critics who come out and write 'articles' (lets be honest and say what it actually is; an attack piece to get clicks) on how evil Michael Bay is and how his latest blockbuster is a crime against humanity.

    Movie Bob makes a statement to his fellow critics; we both know the attack articles on Michael Bay isn't about Michael Bay but its audience, the 'Joe Public'. But you aren't allowed to say that. A critic should never place the blame on why a movie succeeds and fails to where it belongs; the movie goers. And I know you know this because I am a movie critic as well so lets drop the lie.

     

    You know what? Just substitute Michael Bay with Blizzard / NCSoft / EA etc and 'latest blockbuster' with 'Latest AAA MMO' and BAM! You have 90% of the thread here ranting about how WoW / themepark killed MMOs.

    I personally don't think there is a 'problem' as I believe in such things as 'free market / capitalism' but it was uncanny on how close the comparison between the message of this video and most 'back in my day threads on this site' were.

    Here is why your point is an EPIC FAIL (just IMO of course).  they still make plenty of other great movies, for every taste.

  • pantaropantaro monticello, NYPosts: 142Member
    Originally posted by jpnz

    In the latest Bob's feature on the escapistmagazine.com (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/the-big-picture/9491-Leave-Michael-Bay-Alone), MovieBob has a quote that rings true. 

    'The audience is the problem but you aren't suppose to say that'.

    The 6:30mins video is a look at the movie critics who come out and write 'articles' (lets be honest and say what it actually is; an attack piece to get clicks) on how evil Michael Bay is and how his latest blockbuster is a crime against humanity.

    Movie Bob makes a statement to his fellow critics; we both know the attack articles on Michael Bay isn't about Michael Bay but its audience, the 'Joe Public'. But you aren't allowed to say that. A critic should never place the blame on why a movie succeeds and fails to where it belongs; the movie goers. And I know you know this because I am a movie critic as well so lets drop the lie.

     

    You know what? Just substitute Michael Bay with Blizzard / NCSoft / EA etc and 'latest blockbuster' with 'Latest AAA MMO' and BAM! You have 90% of the thread here ranting about how WoW / themepark killed MMOs.

    I personally don't think there is a 'problem' as I believe in such things as 'free market / capitalism' but it was uncanny on how close the comparison between the message of this video and most 'back in my day threads on this site' were.

    totally agree,something i have always believed.If we want better quality,regardless of the form of media we need to stop throwing our money at the trash!

  • LudwikLudwik Rochester, NYPosts: 401Member Uncommon
    Nobody is forced to play games.

    But people seem to have this delusion that if they quit buying today's modern games that the quality would get better. Capitalism doesn't work that way.

    Let's say we all quit playing MMOs and switched to MOBAs. MMOs wouldn't get better, rich people would just stop funding them and start making MOBAs and finding ways to profitize them. Surprise, surprise, here's Heroes of the Storm.

    Ultimately, what you choose to do as a hobby is irrelevant. They will find a way to maximize profits at the expense of your enjoyment.
  • jpnzjpnz SydneyPosts: 3,529Member
    Originally posted by Ludwik
    Nobody is forced to play games.

    But people seem to have this delusion that if they quit buying today's modern games that the quality would get better. Capitalism doesn't work that way.

    Let's say we all quit playing MMOs and switched to MOBAs. MMOs wouldn't get better, rich people would just stop funding them and start making MOBAs and finding ways to profitize them. Surprise, surprise, here's Heroes of the Storm.

    Ultimately, what you choose to do as a hobby is irrelevant. They will find a way to maximize profits at the expense of your enjoyment.

    If we all stopped playing WoW and switched to EVE, you don't think the market will be flooded with EVE-Clones?

    The point of the video is that 'wailing at the product for being successful is essentially lying to your audience as you are wailing at the buyers. But we can't say that cause the 'buyers' are those that are keeping the critics employed.'

    This video illustrates why 'hating on WoW / themeparks' makes no sense.

    Gdemami -
    Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKPosts: 8,515Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ludwik
    Nobody is forced to play games.

     

    Tell that to the QA team at any game company.

     

    As far as "we are the problem" - who else could it be? The birds? 

    Humans came up with the entire concept of what constitutes a problem to begin with - so, we're always the problem, as it lies within our cognition.

     

     

  • Tyvolus4Tyvolus4 lincoln, NEPosts: 175Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by pantaro
    Originally posted by jpnz

    In the latest Bob's feature on the escapistmagazine.com (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/the-big-picture/9491-Leave-Michael-Bay-Alone), MovieBob has a quote that rings true. 

    'The audience is the problem but you aren't suppose to say that'.

    The 6:30mins video is a look at the movie critics who come out and write 'articles' (lets be honest and say what it actually is; an attack piece to get clicks) on how evil Michael Bay is and how his latest blockbuster is a crime against humanity.

    Movie Bob makes a statement to his fellow critics; we both know the attack articles on Michael Bay isn't about Michael Bay but its audience, the 'Joe Public'. But you aren't allowed to say that. A critic should never place the blame on why a movie succeeds and fails to where it belongs; the movie goers. And I know you know this because I am a movie critic as well so lets drop the lie.

     

    You know what? Just substitute Michael Bay with Blizzard / NCSoft / EA etc and 'latest blockbuster' with 'Latest AAA MMO' and BAM! You have 90% of the thread here ranting about how WoW / themepark killed MMOs.

    I personally don't think there is a 'problem' as I believe in such things as 'free market / capitalism' but it was uncanny on how close the comparison between the message of this video and most 'back in my day threads on this site' were.

    totally agree,something i have always believed.If we want better quality,regardless of the form of media we need to stop throwing our money at the trash!

    that's like saying if people don't stop eating at McDonalds we cant buy a great Hamburger elsewhere...lol, you people make no sense !!

  • DamonVileDamonVile Vancouver, BCPosts: 4,818Member
    Originally posted by DMKano
    Originally posted by Ludwik
    Nobody is forced to play games.

     

    Tell that to the QA team at any game company.

     

     

     

    People are forced to do their jobs ? or they agree to do it. Show up every day willingly and are paid for their time.

  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKPosts: 8,515Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Originally posted by DMKano
    Originally posted by Ludwik
    Nobody is forced to play games.

     

    Tell that to the QA team at any game company.

     

     

     

    People are forced to do their jobs ? or they agree to do it. Show up every day willingly and are paid for their time.

    People are forced to work - otherwise they couldn't afford to live.

    You call it a choice - it's not a choice, the vast majority of people dislike their work and only do it because they have to earn money somehow to support themselves and their family.

    The idea that people show up willingly and are paid for their time - it's true on surface, in reality there is no alternative.

    When you do something out of necessity, because there are no alternatives, is your choice not forced in some way?

    Yes there is some small % of people who enjoy their job, or who don't have to work at all (the 1%ers) - but the vast majority of the population are doing jobs they hate in many cases.

     

    Now going back to QA teams at game companies - I'm yet to meet any of them that are loving it - yes the noobs maybe, but talk to any of the QA guys who've done if for several years, I can't recall a single one that liked their job.

     

  • jpnzjpnz SydneyPosts: 3,529Member
    Originally posted by Tyvolus4
     

    that's like saying if people don't stop eating at McDonalds we cant buy a great Hamburger elsewhere...lol, you people make no sense !!

    I suspect this thread is maybe a bit too 'meta' for you and therefore can't understand it.

     

    Lets see if I can use your example to better assist in your understanding.

    Statement: 'Should you be angry at McDonalds for making you fat because you always eat there?'

    The above statement makes zero logical sense right? No one made you eat McDonalds.

    Same with MMOs, no one is forcing anyone to play 'modern MMOs / quest hubs / WoW Clone etc' so why get mad at an MMO?

    Gdemami -
    Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 19,987Member Uncommon
    And here I am wondering, who the heck is Michael Bay? I'll Google him tomorrow.

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • LudwikLudwik Rochester, NYPosts: 401Member Uncommon
    jpnz, you're absolutely right.

    If we were to stop playing WoW style and move to Eve style, there would be a massive influx of Eve clones. But the quality of WoW and Eve would not improve.

    What would happen is this:

    1) WoW style MMOs would stop receiving funding and eventually disappear. Very similar to the way classic old school MMOs are being phased away.

    2) NC Soft or EA would buyout CCP and start cutting out game essentials and replace them with more monetization. They would do this while simulanteosly either buying out or pushing out their competition.
    3) Blizzard would release their clone about a year after the genre switch began so they could pickup the disgruntled players moving away from EA CCP.

    All told the genre hasn't advanced at all, if anything it's gotten worse while a bunch of greedy company execs got richer.

    Your solution is not to buy. Not buying doesn't push the genre forward either. These rich company execs aren't going to build a better product, they'll just find a different product to pillage.

    Nothing we do matters. You're given the illusion that voting with your wallet is going to make things better but it won't.

    The only way the genre will improve is if one of these rich suits wants to build a great game without care for profit...ie never. I hate to say it but be happy with what you have because it's never going to get better, only worse.
  • ReklawReklaw Am.Posts: 6,474Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by TheQuietGamer

    For some reason I can't play that link.  

    I would say this, I hate CGI, hate it.  If a movie has excessive CGI I will never watch it.  If a movie has bad poorly utilised CGI (aka Micheal Bay) I will not watch it.  

    Movies these days are trying to sell to an international market, and the one language everyone understands is action and explosions everywhere.  That is largely why we have seen a decline in the quality of summer blockbusters.  However, these homogeneous CGI-laden shit-fests leave more of a niche market for quality films with characterisation, a compelling story, all of those old school qualities that were once fundamental to a good film.  

    The same can be true for mmo's. 

     

    For me there are plenty of good movies and then there's just the entertaining movies aka Michael Bay movies and the like.

    Also when I talk about bad CGI I see sci-fi...oh excuse me SYFY homebuild movies. CGI in most summer blockbusters actually to me have great CGI.

    It has nothing to do with old school taste because those movies are still out there, unfortunaly many focus on that what they don't like and for some reason ignore what is there to enjy for their own taste.

    Just don't go to action oriented moviesif you want a compeling deep characteristic type of movie problemsolved, no need for hate...

    Same with games.

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