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"Vet Content is Too Hard" - Upcoming changes
bcbully
Member EpicPosts: 11,838
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/117132/veteran-system-changes-preview
Veteran System Changes Preview
ZOS_JessicaFolsom in Developer Discussions Staff Post
Hi everyone,
One of the topics we frequently get feedback on is ESO’s Veteran content. Some of you may have seen our recent comments about changes we have in store for ESO’s post-50 experience. We want you to know we’ve been listening to your suggestions and concerns, but more importantly, we want to tell you what we’re doing about them. Today, we have an update from the ESO Dev Team to share with you.
Some of the concerns you’ve called out are: Veteran content is too much of a departure from the level 1 to 50 experience, playing and leveling through it is too much of a grind, and that the rewards you get don’t match the effort you have to put in to progress.
One of the guiding principles of our Veteran gameplay was to encourage you (not force you) to group. We wanted you to be able to reach max level by playing solo if you wished, but still encourage you to group with others along the way. This principle was the reason we made our post-50 zones more difficult; we wanted you to get together with others to take on tougher challenges and form social bonds while you did so. But we understand that, despite our vision, this is not how all our players want to experience the game beyond level 50.
We recognize that many of you love the game you played while leveling up, and that you feel the post-50 zones are too much of a departure from that experience. We hear your requests to continue participating in solo content as you progress through Veteran Ranks, and we’re acting on that feedback.
Starting next week on Monday, July 7th, you’ll see the first significant change we’re making to the Veteran System. We’re implementing some balance changes to content in post-50 zones that will make it much more like the content from levels 1-50. Our goal is to remove the feeling of “I have just hit a wall of difficulty” that many of you have expressed—you’ll be able to solo much more easily. This is just the first of many large-scale changes coming to ESO’s Veteran System, and we encourage you to watch our QuakeCon panel on Friday, July 17th, where we’ll go into much more detail about the other parts.
Thank you for sticking with us, sharing your concerns, and supporting a game we all love.
UPDATE - 7/7
Veteran Rank Changes
Phase 1 of our Veteran gameplay changes begins with this patch, the first in a series of changes we'll be making to improve the post-50 experience overall. We've lowered the difficulty of the second and third alliance zones to bring them more in lines with zones from 1-50. You'll be able to continue soloing through them more easily than before, though they'll still be challenging. We have much more information about Veteran System changes on the way, so make sure to watch our site for updates.
Comments
So these changes will be starting the day that the 'original' subscriptions would renew.
Sneaky buggers.
I'll still let mine lapse though, as I'm a bit sick of the vague nothingness that the devs spew out when they talk about improvement. Only numbers or even specifics would help to convince me.
It's "stupid" they way they did it.
You want people to group? Make areas/dungeons/encounters that are group specific.
Even go as far as to make an entire quest line group specific. People want to do this content? They group.
Additionally (and maybe they did someone can tell me though I highly doubt it) they can keep difficutly but add an xp bonus for groups.
Just making things difficult and having players "figure it out" after they have played 1-50 a certain way is not the way to do it.
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I'm not sure if this is the right decision. The veteran content is challenging, but not too difficult. The only difference between 1-50 and veteran content is that you no longer are able to gankfest large groups of monsters without risk. It's better to have another player supporting you.
For me the problem wasn't vet level difficulty, it was vet level boredom. There is no story after 50.. just go out (in "enemy" lands")and run boring quests with no backstory. I got halfway through the first vet area and quit.
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Maybe you should start reading / listening instead of skipping the story? Each zone has got an own story line that in addition is tied to the story arc of the faction.
Excellent news!
Anyone that knows my posting history here knows how I feel about the VR content. and the insignificant rewards considering the extra effort required just to clear trash.
There is a balance of group content (dolmens, the one public dungeon and one instanced dungeon per zone, world bosses) and solo questing 1-50. When that changes so dramatically in the VR "other faction" content it's a shock to the system. More encouragement for grouping should be focused on enhancing the quantity and quality of legitimate group content as well as the XP and loot rewards, not by morphing solo content into group content.
Say what you will about this game but you have to give big kudos to the team for listening and making needed fundamental changes.
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If a tasks take long time to complete doesn't mean its challenging. More like tedious.
People often confuse time sink with challenge.
It's OK to have challenging content, but not OK to change the leveling experience for the standard zones.
It's questionable that they even should have made it so you had to level through the other two factions, but never the less they did this so why make it more tedious by doing so.
You don't let people solo through 50 levels, then decide to encourage (or force) grouping. Do that from day 1, and people will accept it.
And if you are going to do it the way they chose, then you better really ramp up the rewards for grouping the harder content.
Why do I see such obvious things but developers don't?
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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I still say that both of those are wrong. It's more about getting the risk /reward part right. It's just as bad to over-reward as under-reward. WOW leans toward the over and ESO VR content is definitely under.
And by "reward" I don't mean just loot. The rate of character advancement is even more important than that.
This game has a very satisfying 1-50 character advancement reward rate since you don't have to wait for a level to get a skill point and the way you have so many options about what to do with those skill points.
Considering the added difficulty of the VR content, you should be getting 10 skill points on VR level instead of 0 and they should device some system of VR-only skills or traits. I've often used "morphs of the morphs" as an example of how they could make VR rewards better without needing to change things too much... a free respec per VR level would be another easy one... lots of things they could do to make VR game play feel more rewarding.
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This is where I say to be glad to have allot of MMORPG playing on release experiance to know to never run into endgame with a game just released. Most definitly never within a month. I know developers will need time after a game is released to work out certain things.
And so far they seem to be more on top of things then many MMORPG that have come before. Yet the community has become less patient which is really a shame
But one thing for me has always been clear and that's a MMORPG is never done.
If there has ever been a MMORPG that had it all, was bug free, had no issue's at all then I could understand certain complaints, geuss what there never has been a MMORPG at release without any issue, and never will regardless tech, things change in this genre unlike singleplayer games and where there is change there will be errors. As long these errors will be fixed as soon as possible.
Glad to read up on the VR content, but I can't judge how it's now since I am pretty far away from it.
Yes which makes no sense that I am suddenly befriending the Queen of the AD who is my mortal enemy...
The whole vet concept of doing the other zones was obviously just tacked on at the end of development and it shows. If I want to experience the other 2 areas I'll make a character there. The whole setup screams of a desperate last minute decision by the developers when they realized the content would only hold people for a few weeks.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I don't agree with the philosophy that solo content must be faceroll easy and if devs want to add any kind of challenge they should do it in instanced content.
Because thats exactly what ESO pre-vet solo content is: faceroll easy. Now they are going to make veteran easy....the word "veteran" itself already means something more than normal content.
So disappointed that they are already dumbing down stuff...
Hodor!
The whole point of this change was in regard to the massive complaints about not being able to see it all on one character. It was not a smart change by any means, the same goes for the change to the starter areas. It's a pretty good lesson on not caving to every complaint your audience makes.
The added content was nothing but a bonus for Zenimax at least at the time. We see now though that it didn't make much difference in long term appeal.
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Was it really difficult to begin with or was it overly tedious? There's a huge difference.
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Exactly my feelings on the starter zones and VR content. This latest change, instead of adding faction-specific content for VR levels - which they could do a couple levels at a time over 6 months and still make me happy - is seriously making me consider uninstalling the game and forgetting about it. I haven't subscribed since the first 43-day period ended (early access, free apology time) but I'd been waiting for Thieves Guild and/or Dark Brotherhood to give it another try. Not so sure I'm interested now. Not that it matters, I'm just one person. Just venting!
I never found the veteran content difficult. By comparison I suppose it was, but I only died a few times per VR level. Not a big deal, given there's no real penalty for death. I'm happy they realized it needed a change, just not a fan of the one they came up with. Poor comparison, but it's like saying I don't like Peach Tea and having someone say "how about just half a cup then, so you can get through it faster?".
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If you had a good group of people you did it with then it was fun and adventurous with a slight difficulty. They already have people soloing the VR content so I dont see how its too hard for a group. Its just going to seem dumbed down.
They aren't dumbing it down, they are trying to save the game.
When a significant proportion of the player base hits VR levels and then quits the game, they know they have a problem to deal with. The problem really stems from Cyrodiil though, and that VR levels are needed to compete, that was probably a mistake they made in development, and given how much difference it does make to the PvP, i am totally surprised they did not see it coming, which kind of lends a lot of credence to the theory that the whole thing was just tacked on because they were facing player backlash due to the whole 'locked off areas' issue.
So, they effectively have 2 choices, either change the PvP so that VR ranks did not give a significant advantage, or make gaining those VR ranks a less tedious experience.
But seriously, this is just the beginning, if they want the fans of the Elder Scrolls games to play ESO, then they really need to start addressing those issues, and so far, they have barely touched the surface. The onus is very much on Zenimax now to deliver.
I agree with you thats its good to see that they are listening, hopefully not too late, and they are making some fundamental changes. I'm also glad that I took my time, now 48 :-), so I wont have to experience what others have gone through hehe. HOWEVER, I still think the entire idea of 50+ and 50++ should be wiped so alts are encouraged instead as IMO the average MMOer prefers alts. This is especially due to the fact that the Class design is not the 'template' Zenimax made it out to be. Those class choices make a huge difference and is exactly why there are so many balance issues. If it was just a template as they made it out to be, then we wouldn't have all these balance issues. Regardless, I agree its a very positive step in the right direction and now I don't have to dread getting to 50 very shortly :-). I'm still debating if I want to make an alt or not knowing that I have to play through Vet content if I want to PVE to the end...which is an annoying decision to have to make.
There Is Always Hope!
Yeah. I've always disliked the VR+ and ++ with one character bit as well and always saw it as a kludge. But I also know that it's here to stay...and if that's the case, this is a good step to make it less tedious... hopefully even fun
And to those confusing tedium with difficulty... VR+ and ++ is not all that difficult as long as you have the hang of speccing (hint: for PVE you spec for AOE for those groups of 3 or 4 you always run into, with a dash of CC for mini bosses). With my VR7 Sorc I can solo even most of the group public dungeons... the problem is that after a while having challenging fights ALL THE TIME, with EVERY TRASH MOB gets to be tedious and old.
Maybe some were complaining because it was too tough for them...likely the spec-challenged. But the vast majority of complaining was about how tedious, unrewarding and seemingly pointless it was to do a part of the game that is required content to reach max level and worse, required to be truly competitive in PVP.
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