Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

[Column] Pathfinder Online: Welcome to Alpha

SBFordSBFord Associate Editor - News ManagerThe CitadelPosts: 19,578MMORPG.COM Staff Rare

I have not kept it a secret that Pathfinder Online, in development by Goblinworks, is a MMORPG that I am truly looking forward to. Over the past two weeks Pathfinder has hit a couple major milestones in its development process and in this week’s column we will take a look at two of them.

Read more of Rob Lashley's Pathfinder Online: Welcome to Alpha.

image

We have a NEWS PAGE - Try it sometime!

image
«1

Comments

  • TelondarielTelondariel Ottawa, ONPosts: 1,001Member

    I wouldn't be praising SOE too hard for their crowdforging efforts.  Their Round-Table for EQN proved, fairly quickly, to give the appearance of choice through voting and discussion, with the reality of it being simply another hype tool with little substance.  Those with common sense abandoned it after the smoke and mirrors were made evident.  EQN at this point remains vaporware: there has been zero footage of in-game development since last summer, and the only bait to hook the truly dedicated is to fool people into believing they are helping to shape development through Round-Table discussions.

     

    Other companies, like Pathfinder?  Who knows how they will manage it.  Ultimately, I think it's important to listen, and keep lines open for discussion, while maintaining whatever vision you have.  Acting on the voices of the vocal few, as we've seen time and time again, can simply lead to a bigger mess than they started with.  

     

    Crowdforging should be a carefully used sounding board, nothing more.

    image
  • KonfessKonfess Dallas, TXPosts: 1,173Member Uncommon

    I think the gaming public lies about what it truly wants.  They will say, we want Capital A, B, & C the altruistic form.  When you give it to them on a silver platter, then you find out they wanted lower case a, b, & c the corrupt and shady form.  The problem with asking the games followers during development, you get a narrow profile and mainly fanbois.  These are the ones that stifle words of warning with flames of “see you at release”, or “its fixed already on the PTS this is just an old build.”

    A project manager has to take charge and have a concrete idea and goal in mind.  Otherwise they are just a used plastic shopping bag blowing aimlessly in the wind.

    Pardon any spelling errors
    Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven
    Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
    Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
    As if it could exist, without being payed for.
    F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.

  • Dreamo84Dreamo84 Niagara Falls, NYPosts: 3,631Member Uncommon
    Trove is the best example of developers listening to feedback. They immediately make changes based on direct feedback which is often pretty drastic changes. It's really an interesting process to see.

    image
  • OzmodanOzmodan Hilliard, OHPosts: 7,540Member Uncommon

    Roundtables just don't work.  The vocal people almost always do not represent the majority and you end up with a game that only a few will play.

    I just don't see this game going anywhere.  The developers just don't seem to understand how to make a decent MMO.

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,709Member Uncommon
    Im so pulling for all these guys.
  • strawhat0981strawhat0981 Phoenix, AZPosts: 969Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ozmodan

    Roundtables just don't work.  The vocal people almost always do not represent the majority and you end up with a game that only a few will play.

    The loud mouths represent maybe 5% of the people, the silent majority are way above the ones talking. But like the saying goes, the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

    Originally posted by laokoko
    "if you want to be a game designer, you should sell your house and fund your game. Since if you won't even fund your own game, no one will".

  • acidbloodacidblood melbournePosts: 364Member Uncommon

    I'm really hoping games like Pathfinder are a success (by which I mean, they release, are well made and fit their audience) as while they may not be for me (though I'd certainly be curious to give it a try), at the very least they can introduce (or bring back) some ideas to MMOs that the 'professionals' seem too scared to touch.

     

    The whole 'dynamic event' thing is a great example. Lots of MMOs have them now, but they still feel scripted after a while, they are still limited, and they still all leave the world how it was (and always will be). Could Monster Escalations finally be the true dynamic events that change the world and leave it up to the players (not some event timer) to set things right again?

     

    Maybe, either way it's something different, and it will be interesting to see how games like Pathfinder, SOTA, and CU turn out.

     
     
  • MMOGamer71MMOGamer71 Pittsburgh, PAPosts: 1,930Member Uncommon
    Gimme Gimme Now !!!!!
  • KuviskiKuviski KajaaniPosts: 215Member Uncommon

    Honestly, I am not a very big fan of the whole ask-the-community thing. Tends to attract a small group of a certain type of players that like posting on forums but whose views might not necessarily represent the wellbeing of the average player.

    Not only that, but I also tend to have this belief that the best games are created by designers with a clear vision that allows little to no compromises.

    Listening to the community when it comes to opinions on individual mechanics and that kind of thing I see no harm in, but I wouldn't base a whole game's design around the views of the community.

  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko JohannesburgPosts: 4,655Member Rare

    Don't let the tail wag the dog.

     

    The players will always hold the developers responsible for the eventual game design. The developers may say "But you all asked for that !", and the answer from the players will always be "Well, you should have known better !!"

     

    It almost seems like AAA MMO developers typically start their design by saying: "Which features appeal to the various significant player groups ? Now, how can we include all these features in our game design ?"

     

    Instead, it may be more effective to identify the target player group and figure out how to best design the game to appeal to that group. Ultimately, it's probably better to please a relatively small group, as opposed to dissappointing a very large one.

  • haplo602haplo602 Posts: 223Member Uncommon

    I am all for developers listening to the community, but AFTER they have made clear what the general idea/direction is.

     

    Also they have to be good a gauging unintended impact of changes ....

  • WolfhammerWolfhammer KetteringPosts: 737Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Im so pulling for all these guys.

    You need to leave yourself alone mate lol

    I'll never pay for development of a game but if a studio comes up with something at least in alpha that makes me sit up, I will invest at that point...   I will not throw money at an idea.

    Pathfinder looks interesting so look forward to seeing some in-game footage covering combat and crafting.

    Have a good weekend peeps.

  • ApraxisApraxis RegensburgPosts: 1,508Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Konfess

    I think the gaming public lies about what it truly wants.  They will say, we want Capital A, B, & C the altruistic form.  When you give it to them on a silver platter, then you find out they wanted lower case a, b, & c the corrupt and shady form.  The problem with asking the games followers during development, you get a narrow profile and mainly fanbois.  These are the ones that stifle words of warning with flames of “see you at release”, or “its fixed already on the PTS this is just an old build.”

    A project manager has to take charge and have a concrete idea and goal in mind.  Otherwise they are just a used plastic shopping bag blowing aimlessly in the wind.

    Exactly that.. players don't know what they really want. As a developer you have to have a Vision and stay true to that Vision.

    That doesn't mean you can listen to good ideas from the community, or to work together with them at some points.. but finally you as developer have to make the decision fitting the best to your Vision.

  • TaranxTaranx Victoria, BCPosts: 155Member Uncommon
    So, just to be sure, in order to get into this Alpha you need $1000.00 to support it? The peasant fee of $35.00 is for Access in 2016 ?
     
  • FanOfSupermanFanOfSuperman Burlington, VTPosts: 143Member Uncommon

    I have my doubts and fears for Pathfinder Online. The biggest one being that like other table-top games that have gone MMO, i.e. DDO and Neverwinter, this game will stray too far from it roots and lose sight of where it came from.

    I was so looking forward to Neverwinter, however that game was a major letdown, not to mention an in-your-face cash-grab!

    DDO perhaps didn't stray as far from its roots as Neverwinter; however, the insane amount of instancing in that game killed it for me.

    So far from what I've seen of Pathfinder Online, it looks like a more fitting title would be "Lord of the Pathfinder Online"!

    I realize it's still early in its development and maybe it's me, but the graphics and gameplay look far too similar to Lord of the Rings Online -- even if it's a sandbox rather than on rails. Been there, done that!

    The combat will have to be a lot more advanced than the old-school tab-targeting it appears to have in the videos. I can't seem to find anything on their site that states otherwise, so I'll assume that is their approach.

    Frankly, I'm having way too much fun with combat in games like ESO and WildStar to ever go back to the old-school tab-targeting combat system -- I've tried it since playing ESO and WildStar and it feels so slow and boring now. Those two games have spoiled me, so sue me. :P

    If it does indeed have the old tab-targeting combat system, about the only thing that might be the game's saving grace for me is whether or not it adheres closely to its table-top counterpart and if/when the game includes the Aasimar race and/or my beloved Witch class.

    As of this moment, I'm refraining from getting too excited about Pathfinder Online.

     

    Edit: Formatting

  • sacredfoolsacredfool prague, TXPosts: 751Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by strawhat0981
    Originally posted by Ozmodan

    Roundtables just don't work.  The vocal people almost always do not represent the majority and you end up with a game that only a few will play.

    The loud mouths represent maybe 5% of the people, the silent majority are way above the ones talking. But like the saying goes, the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

    It's very hard to listen to the silent majority because guess what? THEY ARE SILENT!

    If a developer wants to listen to the players he needs to guess what the silent majority wants, which usually ends in a disaster, or listen to those players that do speak up. 


    Originally posted by nethaniah

    Seriously Farmville? Yeah I think it's great. In a World where half our population is dying of hunger the more fortunate half is spending their time harvesting food that doesn't exist.


  • sakersaker harrisburg, PAPosts: 1,059Member Uncommon
    My best hopes and wishes for this game. Everything I've seen and read already has it head-and-shoulders above the big-money so-called AAA crap I see out currently and in the works that just don't impress. I deeply dis-like the current crony-capitalism paid alpha's but if it works to get this game out so be it.
  • FanOfSupermanFanOfSuperman Burlington, VTPosts: 143Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Kuviski

    Honestly, I am not a very big fan of the whole ask-the-community thing. Tends to attract a small group of a certain type of players that like posting on forums but whose views might not necessarily represent the wellbeing of the average player.

    Not only that, but I also tend to have this belief that the best games are created by designers with a clear vision that allows little to no compromises.

    Listening to the community when it comes to opinions on individual mechanics and that kind of thing I see no harm in, but I wouldn't base a whole game's design around the views of the community.

    Originally posted by Apraxis

    Originally posted by Konfess

    I think the gaming public lies about what it truly wants.  They will say, we want Capital A, B, & C the altruistic form.  When you give it to them on a silver platter, then you find out they wanted lower case a, b, & c the corrupt and shady form.  The problem with asking the games followers during development, you get a narrow profile and mainly fanbois.  These are the ones that stifle words of warning with flames of “see you at release”, or “its fixed already on the PTS this is just an old build.”

    A project manager has to take charge and have a concrete idea and goal in mind.  Otherwise they are just a used plastic shopping bag blowing aimlessly in the wind.

    Exactly that.. players don't know what they really want. As a developer you have to have a Vision and stay true to that Vision.

    That doesn't mean you can listen to good ideas from the community, or to work together with them at some points.. but finally you as developer have to make the decision fitting the best to your Vision.

    Everything you guys said x 100!

    Just look at Apple (whom I despise), they've been extremely successful and have made a fortune telling people what they want, not asking!

    Whether it is truly what you need, that's a different story!

    However, the point is, IMHO, you don't get rich or become successful by listening and doing what the consumer tells you to do. While it's certainly nice to listen to your consumers, as a company creating a project, you need to know your corporate identity and have a firm idea of what you are creating -- not let the consumer determine that for you!

    Ironically, this topic was discussed in-depth in a book for one of the courses I'm taking in my degree program.

     

    Edit: Formatting

  • zellmerzellmer Fakesville, WIPosts: 442Member
    Originally posted by Taranx
    So, just to be sure, in order to get into this Alpha you need $1000.00 to support it? The peasant fee of $35.00 is for Access in 2016 ?
     

    Yup, unless they're giving them out to anybody with a "press excuse" or that works for a site like this, that does seem to be the case.
     

    So there really isn't much to even speak about with "that aspect" sadly..

     

  • TaranxTaranx Victoria, BCPosts: 155Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by zellmer
    Originally posted by Taranx
    So, just to be sure, in order to get into this Alpha you need $1000.00 to support it? The peasant fee of $35.00 is for Access in 2016 ?
     

    Yup, unless they're giving them out to anybody with a "press excuse" or that works for a site like this, that does seem to be the case.
     

    So there really isn't much to even speak about with "that aspect" sadly..

     

    Indeed, well I coughed up my tax refund for Archage Founders and that was ok, for the $150.00 .. but sadly the lint in my jean pockets will have to make me wait for another way into this game. Looks pretty good so far from peeking through the window at it.

  • winterwinter El Paso, TXPosts: 2,277Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Telondariel

    I wouldn't be praising SOE too hard for their crowdforging efforts.  Their Round-Table for EQN proved, fairly quickly, to give the appearance of choice through voting and discussion, with the reality of it being simply another hype tool with little substance.  Those with common sense abandoned it after the smoke and mirrors were made evident.  EQN at this point remains vaporware: there has been zero footage of in-game development since last summer, and the only bait to hook the truly dedicated is to fool people into believing they are helping to shape development through Round-Table discussions.

     

    Other companies, like Pathfinder?  Who knows how they will manage it.  Ultimately, I think it's important to listen, and keep lines open for discussion, while maintaining whatever vision you have.  Acting on the voices of the vocal few, as we've seen time and time again, can simply lead to a bigger mess than they started with.  

     

    Crowdforging should be a carefully used sounding board, nothing more.

    +1 about SOE and their round tables. They don't care about what the players want unless its what they already have planned and then will toot their horn about how they are listening to their player base.

      It only took that one time when they took a poll if players wanted racial/class restrictions which came back overwhelming that they did, and then SOE said to bad we're gonna do what we want to do instead to show how much they cared about their player bases opinions. 

  • winterwinter El Paso, TXPosts: 2,277Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by FanOfSuperman

    Originally posted by Kuviski

    Honestly, I am not a very big fan of the whole ask-the-community thing. Tends to attract a small group of a certain type of players that like posting on forums but whose views might not necessarily represent the wellbeing of the average player.

    Not only that, but I also tend to have this belief that the best games are created by designers with a clear vision that allows little to no compromises.

    Listening to the community when it comes to opinions on individual mechanics and that kind of thing I see no harm in, but I wouldn't base a whole game's design around the views of the community.

    Originally posted by Apraxis

    Originally posted by Konfess

    I think the gaming public lies about what it truly wants.  They will say, we want Capital A, B, & C the altruistic form.  When you give it to them on a silver platter, then you find out they wanted lower case a, b, & c the corrupt and shady form.  The problem with asking the games followers during development, you get a narrow profile and mainly fanbois.  These are the ones that stifle words of warning with flames of “see you at release”, or “its fixed already on the PTS this is just an old build.”

    A project manager has to take charge and have a concrete idea and goal in mind.  Otherwise they are just a used plastic shopping bag blowing aimlessly in the wind.

    Exactly that.. players don't know what they really want. As a developer you have to have a Vision and stay true to that Vision.

    That doesn't mean you can listen to good ideas from the community, or to work together with them at some points.. but finally you as developer have to make the decision fitting the best to your Vision.

    Everything you guys said x 100!

    Just look at Apple (whom I despise), they've been extremely successful and have made a fortune telling people what they want, not asking!

    Whether it is truly what you need, that's a different story!

    However, the point is, IMHO, you don't get rich or become successful by listening and doing what the consumer tells you to do. While it's certainly nice to listen to your consumers, as a company creating a project, you need to know your corporate identity and have a firm idea of what you are creating -- not let the consumer determine that for you!

    Ironically, this topic was discussed in-depth in a book for one of the courses I'm taking in my degree program.

     

    Edit: Formatting

     

    As to apple never bought one doubt I ever will. In short they have nothing I want nor anything I need.

      As to MMO's every game out currently including all those recent ones people like to call failures were made from the Developers making they game they wanted, and following their vision instead player ideas. This worked better in same cases then in others. Sure many times players don't really know what they want, but if your not happy with most games out today don't complain because they were made the way you want ie from the designers ideas and suites trying to make money, not from input from actual players. Long live EA and the big business making games for the biggest profit.. Same day DLC allright give us more!! Right guys?

  • JaegerSFJaegerSF Tulsa, OKPosts: 2Member
    Originally posted by Taranx
    So, just to be sure, in order to get into this Alpha you need $1000.00 to support it? The peasant fee of $35.00 is for Access in 2016 ?
     

    No, in between there's the EE or "Early Enrollment".  This would equate to beta access.   Currently if you purchase that the website says access would be expected in August 2014.  The EE/Beta is likely to be a long haul thing, as Open Enrollment (Live game) is expected January 2016 .

     

    BUT, there's a monthly charge for beta access.  The EE does include three months of that.

     

    Yes, yes, we know, some will NEVER pay for beta access.  Please don't clog this stream with your outrage, we all know it's unusual.  TYVM

     
  • JaegerSFJaegerSF Tulsa, OKPosts: 2Member
    Originally posted by acidblood
    <snip> The whole 'dynamic event' thing is a great example. Lots of MMOs have them now, but they still feel scripted after a while, they are still limited, and they still all leave the world how it was (and always will be). Could Monster Escalations finally be the true dynamic events that change the world and leave it up to the players (not some event timer) to set things right again? <snip>

    Well, the places escalations come from are fixed.  And yes, if you and your neighbors don't 'attend to' an escalation, it just gets worse.  (Infects other locations, more mobs, higher level mobs)

     

    However, that's not the dynamic part where what you do makes a permanent difference in the world.

     

    There isn't a concise place on their website to find the info, but it boils down to player founded, built and run settlements, vying over resources to upgrade the settlements to allow the best weapons, gear and training to be furnished.

     

    (That summary is about the same level as saying "The automotive industry makes cars".)

     

    TL;DNR Pathfinder Online is most similar in concept to Eve Online, only based on swords and sorcery, not spaceships.

     
  • KhalathwyrKhalathwyr Denton, TXPosts: 3,138Member
    Originally posted by JaegerSF
    Originally posted by Taranx
    So, just to be sure, in order to get into this Alpha you need $1000.00 to support it? The peasant fee of $35.00 is for Access in 2016 ?
     

    No, in between there's the EE or "Early Enrollment".  This would equate to beta access.   Currently if you purchase that the website says access would be expected in August 2014.  The EE/Beta is likely to be a long haul thing, as Open Enrollment (Live game) is expected January 2016 .

     

    BUT, there's a monthly charge for beta access.  The EE does include three months of that.

     

    Yes, yes, we know, some will NEVER pay for beta access.  Please don't clog this stream with your outrage, we all know it's unusual.  TYVM

     

    Early Enrollment isn't "beta access". Early Enrollment is launch for those that have either bought in via Kickstarter originally or purchased it for month two on the current Goblin Works site. There will be no character wipes once EE starts. EE begins playing for keeps as XP gain is time based (akin to Eve Online) and, as I just said, no character wipes.

     

    EE is LIVE  game, though it will be a minimum viable product (MVP) as they have discussed ad nausem many months ago to in part allow us folks in EE to have a say in how the game develops.

    "Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."

    Kickstarter 2 / Naysayers 0

«1
Sign In or Register to comment.