I cancelled my sub because I've found something better, however ESO is a good game, but it's just not Elderscrolls for me, there's no sandbox element what so ever which left me 'Meh'. I am playing Wildstar yes it's a themepark but I expected that, I like it and the reason I do is the adventure, dungeons etc they are challenging ESO isn't and ESO as a themepark just doesn't work, yeah ESO has better graphics but sometimes graphics isn't enough nor is the way they've done the quests (for me personally).
All ESO really has to do to have a real solid game is fix the Veteran Ranks. 1-50 I had a blast playing ESO. The combat system is the most enjoyable I've seen in an MMO in a long time, the world is beautiful, and I actually do like the tradeskill system. I didn't care much for the PVP but I'm not a big PVP player anyway so I don't really care much.
However, for me, and for many other players, the game takes a huge nosedive in the fun factor department when you finish the initial campaign and hit VR1. The grind is painful (and I'm someone who played classic EQ1), they remove options on how to level, and playing through the other two faction's campaigns really isn't going to be fun for most people, especially when there is almost no noticeable power gain on your character.
For starters, it has been done before, enter GW2, awesome story line and leveling experience, lack luster end game. I don't think you can successfully capture and hold both single player RPG fans and MMO fans as they both crave different flavors. At this point I don't think they can get back MMO fans so they should focus on storyline and character development at end game for the RPG-ers.
The double edge sword here is with less subs comes less development money which in turn means less content being released. A niche is nice as long as the niche has enough people to keep the game going.
Another option IMO is to revamp the game and re-release it as F2P with a cash store. Similar to what other games have done. At this point they need to focus on what they want to be when they grow up... a MMO, a RPG, or a PvP focused game.
P.S. - They kind of alienated true MMO players when they announced there was no end game raiding or challenging content. in my experience raiders are the most loyal and longest lasting subscribers due to the fact that we are driven by that carrot, dangle it and we keep running.
Speaking for myself I play single player games and MMO games and I honestly do not make a distinction between the two. There are not certain features or aspects that I want out of a single player game that I don't get in a MMO and vice versa. Other than save files for single player, and groups for MMOs.
So I have always struggled with the concept that the two game style and communities are different because I don't think they are.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
No matter what side you stand on there is one fact. ESO had the chance to be much bigger then it is now if not for how the handled things. Even fundamental things like teaming. They got that wrong on so many levels.
I expect the Announcement of the indefinite hold on the Euro Server, the cancellation of Console and the move to F2P by end of August.
Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT Playing: Skyrim Following: The Repopulation I want a Virtual World, not just a Game. ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)
I played ESO to VR2 and lost interest because it was starting to feel more and more like a grind. In PvP the combat was fun and dynamic but the bulk of the time felt like it was eat up by travel.Good looking game fun play through 1 time around but I feel like I can get a game equal to or better than, without a sub.
Speaking for myself I play single player games and MMO games and I honestly do not make a distinction between the two. There are not certain features or aspects that I want out of a single player game that I don't get in a MMO and vice versa. Other than save files for single player, and groups for MMOs.
So I have always struggled with the concept that the two game style and communities are different because I don't think they are.
You know the difference now a days? PvP, there is no pvp in single player games. PvP is the mmo of mmorpg now a days. PvE is becoming more and more single player oriented, while PvP is getting bigger and bigger. ESO's PvP is as big as the genre has seen.
ESO is an amazing game from level 1 to 50 and the PvP is just the best thing of the game. But Zenimax made an HUGE mistake with the VR grind, thats where pretty much everyone quit the game. Now is even hard to find people grinding on Caglorn, and the VR zones are pretty much dead, thats a bad sign because there is only one megaserver on this game, and is empty after VR1.
Not even talking about how all the PvP campaigns are dead but one. ESO is a great game but Zenimax made just too many mistakes.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
A mere bandaide over a gash. Eventually it will bleed out completely and go Buy 2 Play within the year. They have a lot of work to do compared to other MMO's.
1. When World of Warcraft came out there was hardly any end game content either.
2. However it took hardcore players a few months to max out and the casual players 6+ months (usually longer) before maxing out.
3. These days new games come out and your at max level within 2 weeks for casual playing, hardcore are there in a day or two.
4. This does not gicve them time to fix any found bugs so even casual players will hit these and fine the game to be buggy, and this does not give them time to make and do some end game content, rather they would have to rush this out to keep the playerbase from leaving but this brings in many rushed bugs and not much of a good end game.
5. They should go back to the old style of play where it took months before one maxed out their character/s so one could also enjoy the game. Though it also must be done well and interesting. I do not see why hitting max cap in such a quick and short time helps the players? there just going to pout and cry at the end when there is nothing to do. Play the damn games properly and enjoy the ride up.
So a game that reportedly cost something like 200 million is going to be ok making 36 million a year, and that's before things like salaries and other overhead are paid?
"The best graphics of any mmo", you shouldn't glue those glasses on man.
I like that the Ryan also points out that, basically, only one instance of cyrodill is being utilized while completely neglecting to point out that it has a population limit; making it sound like that's where everyone went, and without using it as an indicator of a larger population problem within the game.
"Hundreds, possibly thousands left". This joker can't be serious!
Mmorpg.com is hitting an all-time low when they start posting marketing pieces for games, by "freelance" writers. Every article you guys post by this guy are nothing but propaganda pieces trying to convince people that everything is ok, that the game is great, and everyone not playing is misinformed.
Why don't you just have zenimax write articles for you?
Oh wait, this is exactly how Firor said they'd be marketing the game from now on.
Lost all interest after getting to VR1. I don't mind grind but VR is unacceptable as a concept for me. Playing alts is pointless as well because sooner or later I'll hit VR1 with them. Also I liked my sorcerer so why play some other class?
Originally posted by Doogiehowser Now days.. flop MMO = niche.
This.
But this site defines success in a such way that even Titanic could be considered a success, so who cares what anyone says here, there are indicators of what is happening, even if they dont release numbers.
I was part of the closed and the open beta. Had no experience with ES games except to watch my son play each one contentedly for years.
Sadly, ESO seemed rather ho-hum. It wasn't bad, but it wasn't particularly good, either. But I kept going back because, well, it was only in its beta phases, after all. And there was definitely improvement between the closed and the open.
My son also gave the (open) beta a try. He played about an hour and stopped, citing that the game was not ES, it had lost whatever feel that had, and continues to, draw him to the ES other titles. He said it was almost as if Zenimax had taken bits and pieces of the other titles, half-implemented them into ESO and then nerfed it all.
The classes were interesting but felt unbalanced. I liked the idea of being able to wear any sort of armor and "learning" skills that would boost said armor so that I could wear lighter armor as a traditionally heavy-armored class without losing most of the protection. Same with weaponry. It was freeing in many ways. But was it enough? Was the "pretty" factor enough to counter-balance a lackluster story and overall gaming experience?
I decided that perhaps I would have paid the game price but never a subscription. It's simply not a good enough game to warrant a monthly sub. To be brutally honest, it isn't a good enough game to me to warrant a $60 price tag, either.
I tend to be an explorer who likes to experience the richness of the world and quest lines rather than a zerg-to-the-end player. End game to me is a distant goal, not an immediate concern. ESO really didn't give me either one, unfortunately.
Is the game dieing? I don't know, just as none here knows. I suspect it will retain a certain crowd who will defend it until they're blue in the face. But in our multi-game guild, the adamant ESO players began to dwindle within the first month. Why? The game just does not live up to its promise.
I left after about a month...the devs just made so many bad design decisions it's amazing. No end game, no social interaction, questing questing questing, bugs bugs bugs, no economy....etc.
It does have good graphics, but it's a very hollow shell beyond that.
Sadly ESO is dying fast and i say sadly not because i like the game but because its sad to see new games failing.
I m bored after 10+ years to continue speaking about EQ-WoW etc. I was a huge fan of them too, but that's enough. I will support WS just to give it a chance to evolve and i hope the same will do ppl who like ESO.
Stop recycling the same games. Stop compare games with older ones. WS is not WoW and ESO is not DAoC. Give them the chance to make the step forward. WoW or EQ or DAoC cant anymore. They have nothing more to offer.
All Time Favorites: EQ1, WoW, EvE, GW1 Playing Now: WoW, ESO, GW2
To put it into a different perspective, for those of you who say ESO is going to go F2P in a couple of months. Even if there is only 200,000 (which I believe to be a low estimate) people playing the game, they are all paying the $15/month fee. Which equates to $3 million dollars a month or $36 Million dollars a year. Of course that is nothing compared to WoWs $112,500,000 a month, but ESO isnt WoW and we shouldnt expect it to be.
Did you really just say that they are already making more money that this game is worth, and that they should not try to increase it? With your (fictional) numbers, they are making $36M a year on this game. If they wre to convert to F2P they would easily make $72M (look at the conversion improvements other games have reported).
You have made it clear that they should be happy with what they have, and should not push it... despite the fact that they still will not break even on this product after 10 years.
Comments
All ESO really has to do to have a real solid game is fix the Veteran Ranks. 1-50 I had a blast playing ESO. The combat system is the most enjoyable I've seen in an MMO in a long time, the world is beautiful, and I actually do like the tradeskill system. I didn't care much for the PVP but I'm not a big PVP player anyway so I don't really care much.
However, for me, and for many other players, the game takes a huge nosedive in the fun factor department when you finish the initial campaign and hit VR1. The grind is painful (and I'm someone who played classic EQ1), they remove options on how to level, and playing through the other two faction's campaigns really isn't going to be fun for most people, especially when there is almost no noticeable power gain on your character.
For starters, it has been done before, enter GW2, awesome story line and leveling experience, lack luster end game. I don't think you can successfully capture and hold both single player RPG fans and MMO fans as they both crave different flavors. At this point I don't think they can get back MMO fans so they should focus on storyline and character development at end game for the RPG-ers.
The double edge sword here is with less subs comes less development money which in turn means less content being released. A niche is nice as long as the niche has enough people to keep the game going.
Another option IMO is to revamp the game and re-release it as F2P with a cash store. Similar to what other games have done. At this point they need to focus on what they want to be when they grow up... a MMO, a RPG, or a PvP focused game.
P.S. - They kind of alienated true MMO players when they announced there was no end game raiding or challenging content. in my experience raiders are the most loyal and longest lasting subscribers due to the fact that we are driven by that carrot, dangle it and we keep running.
Speaking for myself I play single player games and MMO games and I honestly do not make a distinction between the two. There are not certain features or aspects that I want out of a single player game that I don't get in a MMO and vice versa. Other than save files for single player, and groups for MMOs.
So I have always struggled with the concept that the two game style and communities are different because I don't think they are.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
Playing: Skyrim
Following: The Repopulation
I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)
You know the difference now a days? PvP, there is no pvp in single player games. PvP is the mmo of mmorpg now a days. PvE is becoming more and more single player oriented, while PvP is getting bigger and bigger. ESO's PvP is as big as the genre has seen.
ESO is an amazing game from level 1 to 50 and the PvP is just the best thing of the game. But Zenimax made an HUGE mistake with the VR grind, thats where pretty much everyone quit the game. Now is even hard to find people grinding on Caglorn, and the VR zones are pretty much dead, thats a bad sign because there is only one megaserver on this game, and is empty after VR1.
Not even talking about how all the PvP campaigns are dead but one. ESO is a great game but Zenimax made just too many mistakes.
fixed
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
I prefer the un-redefined/un-doctored truth
Kinda makes me think more people visit this site than us regular posters.
ok some things to know.
1. When World of Warcraft came out there was hardly any end game content either.
2. However it took hardcore players a few months to max out and the casual players 6+ months (usually longer) before maxing out.
3. These days new games come out and your at max level within 2 weeks for casual playing, hardcore are there in a day or two.
4. This does not gicve them time to fix any found bugs so even casual players will hit these and fine the game to be buggy, and this does not give them time to make and do some end game content, rather they would have to rush this out to keep the playerbase from leaving but this brings in many rushed bugs and not much of a good end game.
5. They should go back to the old style of play where it took months before one maxed out their character/s so one could also enjoy the game. Though it also must be done well and interesting. I do not see why hitting max cap in such a quick and short time helps the players? there just going to pout and cry at the end when there is nothing to do. Play the damn games properly and enjoy the ride up.
So a game that reportedly cost something like 200 million is going to be ok making 36 million a year, and that's before things like salaries and other overhead are paid?
"The best graphics of any mmo", you shouldn't glue those glasses on man.
I like that the Ryan also points out that, basically, only one instance of cyrodill is being utilized while completely neglecting to point out that it has a population limit; making it sound like that's where everyone went, and without using it as an indicator of a larger population problem within the game.
"Hundreds, possibly thousands left". This joker can't be serious!
Mmorpg.com is hitting an all-time low when they start posting marketing pieces for games, by "freelance" writers. Every article you guys post by this guy are nothing but propaganda pieces trying to convince people that everything is ok, that the game is great, and everyone not playing is misinformed.
Why don't you just have zenimax write articles for you?
Oh wait, this is exactly how Firor said they'd be marketing the game from now on.
Lost all interest after getting to VR1. I don't mind grind but VR is unacceptable as a concept for me. Playing alts is pointless as well because sooner or later I'll hit VR1 with them. Also I liked my sorcerer so why play some other class?
Game over.
This.
But this site defines success in a such way that even Titanic could be considered a success, so who cares what anyone says here, there are indicators of what is happening, even if they dont release numbers.
"ESO is a fantastic game, it has the best graphics that have ever been in a MMORPG"
I laughed so hard to this...
Ironic how the very first thought about 6 years ago (and I dont exaggerate it was my very first thought) when I first logged into Darkfall.
'WOW! this is exactly what Morrowind MMO could have been...finally someone has done it!'
yet I have no interest in ESO. odd.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
I was part of the closed and the open beta. Had no experience with ES games except to watch my son play each one contentedly for years.
Sadly, ESO seemed rather ho-hum. It wasn't bad, but it wasn't particularly good, either. But I kept going back because, well, it was only in its beta phases, after all. And there was definitely improvement between the closed and the open.
My son also gave the (open) beta a try. He played about an hour and stopped, citing that the game was not ES, it had lost whatever feel that had, and continues to, draw him to the ES other titles. He said it was almost as if Zenimax had taken bits and pieces of the other titles, half-implemented them into ESO and then nerfed it all.
The classes were interesting but felt unbalanced. I liked the idea of being able to wear any sort of armor and "learning" skills that would boost said armor so that I could wear lighter armor as a traditionally heavy-armored class without losing most of the protection. Same with weaponry. It was freeing in many ways. But was it enough? Was the "pretty" factor enough to counter-balance a lackluster story and overall gaming experience?
I decided that perhaps I would have paid the game price but never a subscription. It's simply not a good enough game to warrant a monthly sub. To be brutally honest, it isn't a good enough game to me to warrant a $60 price tag, either.
I tend to be an explorer who likes to experience the richness of the world and quest lines rather than a zerg-to-the-end player. End game to me is a distant goal, not an immediate concern. ESO really didn't give me either one, unfortunately.
Is the game dieing? I don't know, just as none here knows. I suspect it will retain a certain crowd who will defend it until they're blue in the face. But in our multi-game guild, the adamant ESO players began to dwindle within the first month. Why? The game just does not live up to its promise.
I left after about a month...the devs just made so many bad design decisions it's amazing. No end game, no social interaction, questing questing questing, bugs bugs bugs, no economy....etc.
It does have good graphics, but it's a very hollow shell beyond that.
I agree.. Funny stuff. The graphics are bland and boring. No life.
"You are all going to poop yourselves." BillMurphy
"Laugh and the world laughs with you. Weep and you weep alone."
Sadly ESO is dying fast and i say sadly not because i like the game but because its sad to see new games failing.
I m bored after 10+ years to continue speaking about EQ-WoW etc. I was a huge fan of them too, but that's enough. I will support WS just to give it a chance to evolve and i hope the same will do ppl who like ESO.
Stop recycling the same games. Stop compare games with older ones. WS is not WoW and ESO is not DAoC. Give them the chance to make the step forward. WoW or EQ or DAoC cant anymore. They have nothing more to offer.
All Time Favorites: EQ1, WoW, EvE, GW1
Playing Now: WoW, ESO, GW2
Did you really just say that they are already making more money that this game is worth, and that they should not try to increase it? With your (fictional) numbers, they are making $36M a year on this game. If they wre to convert to F2P they would easily make $72M (look at the conversion improvements other games have reported).
You have made it clear that they should be happy with what they have, and should not push it... despite the fact that they still will not break even on this product after 10 years.