Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Fuzzy Avatars Solved! Please re-upload your avatar if it was fuzzy!

Gold Buyers : Losers or Not?

1246712

Comments

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by bcbully

    Loser.

     

    Insert excuse why they can't get gear and need to buy gold.

     

    Pretty lame imo..

    Loser .. yes. Lame .. no .. because you can make money by selling stuff to them.

    D3 let you do that before RoS, and i made enough to get RoS for free. I don't mind playing a game for free, and get some extra cash from playing. I don't *need* the cash but i have a lot less guilt spending AH money on gaming stuff.

     

  • DarwinianDarwinian Chambersburg, PAPosts: 38Member

    Money is the root of all evil, whether it's real or not.

  • moosecatlolmoosecatlol Boring, TXPosts: 1,171Member Uncommon

    The fault of "Gold Buying" is within the game and its developers.  When a player finds his time in game is being devalued, then he will find a way to mitigate the problem, or quit.

    During the peak of the competitive PvE scene in WoW:BC during the Muru wall, no amount of gold was going to get you the kill. Only the filthiest of backhanded tactics allowed premonition to take that world first.

     

    Progress should be tied to feats of skill, not the stretching of ones wallet. Which is why I'm loving equalized PvE.

  • DamonVileDamonVile Vancouver, BCPosts: 4,818Member
    Originally posted by Quesa

    I honestly have better things to do with my life than grind for 8 hours what I can get for 20m of RL effort.

    The bitchers and moaners about gold sellers and how cash shops have pop'd up because of this type of behavior are just spitting out anecdotal nonsense.  It's all about time management and efficiency for me.

    It's anecdotal nonsese that the people mass hacking accounts are doing it to supply gold to people buying it ? I'd love to hear why you think they're doing it then.

    Buying gold from third party sites spports all the bad that goes along with it no matter how blind you pretend to be about it.

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,899Member Uncommon
    Losers is a strong word as you don't know these people, could be good people IRL who simply like to bypass grinds for whatever reason. Also why do people act like cheating in video games is something new?

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • lugallugal Escondido, CAPosts: 636Member Uncommon
    I used to buy gold when I played WoW. A friend had his own gold selling business and I would buy from him. Looking back, yeah it was stupid to buy and I regret doing it. My reasoning for it though was I did not have the time to farm the gold/mats needed to procure/make the reagents that were required of a person in a raiding guild. I certainly think it is stupid, and game makers should be more proactive in conrolling inflation. Again, I was stupid and will not do it.

    Roses are red
    Violets are blue
    The reviewer has a mishapen head
    Which means his opinion is skewed
    ...Aldous.MF'n.Huxley

  • laseritlaserit Vancouver, BCPosts: 1,933Member Uncommon

    IMHO once monetization enters a game, it ceases to be a game.  Maybe more of an addiction.

    "If you make an ass out of yourself, there will always be someone to ride you." - Bruce Lee

  • PAL-18PAL-18 AnachronoxPosts: 802Member

    in gaming we have gamers,we know that we might lose or win.

    gold /gem/itemshop buyers arent any of those,i would call them something like "wannabe gamers"

    So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.
    By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014.
    **On the radar:http://cyberpunk.net/**

  • Peer_GyntPeer_Gynt Brooklyn, NYPosts: 78Member Uncommon

    Not going to vote as I refuse to blanketly impune or pardon people I do not know. Regardless of what feelings people may hold about gold selling and gold buying, the real culprit is the gaming industry themselves for making long and tedious time and money sinks and unscrupulously presenting them as game play. When you make activities and goals artificially difficult and tedious people are going to find away around them. The gold buying community are simply cutting the Gordian Knot instead of settling for what they are given.

    Now do I personally agree with this behavior? No I feel it's a massive waste of money on top of what was already paid for what was supposed to be entertainment. I feel the better behavior would be for these bored or annoyed players to stop rewarding companies for poor game mechanics and let them go bankrupt.

    image

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,187Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by inemosz

    People buy gold because it's not fun to find the gold themselves. Every single mmo, AAA mmo particularly, have gold sellers and buyers. So there is no decent mmo around?

    People buy gold because there are things in the MMO they desire enough to spend real money for. If the game wasn't perceived as "decent" by those that buy the gold, they wouldn't be investing more money in it. They would invest less (i.e. LEAVE). 

    When you go to a sports game, do you buy a jersey because you're bored and not having fun? When you go to a concert, do you buy the shirt to help you enjoy the music more? 

    Don't you do those things because you are already enjoying it to the point of being willing to spend extra on it?

    If you really do want to figure out if people are "losers or not" for how they chose to pay for their entertainment, it seems the first thing you need to do is ditch the illogical rationalizations you've created to villainize, insult or berate them for doing what they do. The whole 'bypass the content' talking point is getting old, but you guys seem to love that one, so I guess it's not going away anytime soon, no matter how ridiculous it is. 

    This is a very good point, but I don't think it addresses a core flaw in the gold seller/buyer "problem". Like Damonville said above your post, it's not so much the buying of the gold or gear, but how those sources acquire and produce it.

    Developers have a set system of gold fountains and sinks. The intention is to try and balance how much enters and leaves the game. This can be perverted by people running bots and hacks to accelerate or circumvent the system. Not everyone who does this has to be a gold seller, but all gold sellers employ these methods and it is bad for the game.

    Gold buyers aren't inherently bad, but they are supporting the adverse influx of gold into the game and are cheating the system and other players who must acquire that gain at a slower rate if they play legitimately. In games where there is explicit competition for resources and pvp that sort of easily obtained power can cause an imbalance. Even in themeparks with more tightly regulated progression it can still accelerate a player or guild over the rest.

    This is one reason I generally prefer cash shops and built in cash to game currency exchanges. It allows the developer to influence and monitor the system. It encourages people to use safer methods to accelerate and provides an open system for all.

  • Cramit845Cramit845 Port Ewen, NYPosts: 343Member Uncommon

    I definitely think they are Losers.  The main reasons ppl say they buy gold is, "My time is too important to farm gold", which basically means, that that person has chosen the wrong hobby.  Rather than realizing it, they support a group of people that not only hinder everyone else in the game, but also cause theft.  It's really despicable, if these people were actually moral people, they would either play the game as it was intended or find something else to take up their time.  Go game on consoles or something rather then ruining our games, thank you.

     

    The other defense is, "Things are too expensive, which is the devs fault" which isn't true at all, that's the players fault.  Once there is "unlimited gold" which is offered by gold sellers, well now the players can charge whatever they want on the AH and actually get it.  It's complete nonsense and really has hindered the entire MMO industry, whether people agree with that assessment or not.

     

    Personally I've moved to servers that have strict no RMT/botting rules and auto ban anyone that does it.  Doesn't catch everyone, but keeps the server a hell of a lot cleaner than any other F2P games I have seen.

    image

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,633Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Cramit845

    I definitely think they are Losers.  The main reasons ppl say they buy gold is, "My time is too important to farm gold", which basically means, that that person has chosen the wrong hobby.  Rather than realizing it, they support a group of people that not only hinder everyone else in the game, but also cause theft.  It's really despicable, if these people were actually moral people, they would either play the game as it was intended or find something else to take up their time.  Go game on consoles or something rather then ruining our games, thank you.

    You're only looking at one half there. Do you feel the same about those that use GW2 gems or Wildstar CREDD?

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • MaelwyddMaelwydd CrawleyPosts: 1,123Member
    Originally posted by Quesa

    I honestly have better things to do with my life than grind for 8 hours what I can get for 20m of RL effort.

    The bitchers and moaners about gold sellers and how cash shops have pop'd up because of this type of behavior are just spitting out anecdotal nonsense.  It's all about time management and efficiency for me.

    You have the wrong hobby if you feel like it is work or you can equate time spent in game with time spent working.

    That is most obviously the case when you talk about time management and efficiency when talking about a social past time/hobby.

    My advice, donate to charity and get a new hobby that you can enjoy with the time you have available.

     

  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,606Member Uncommon

    A more interesting question would be... Other than the obvious security/safety issues, is there a difference between buying gold form a 3rd party or from the developer?

     

    Quite frankly, I don't think there is. So if you're going to pass judgement on the character of those who buy gold from 3rd parties, you have to apply the same criteria to those who do the same directly from developers in games like Rift for example, where you can buy items or just gold from the in-game cash shop.

     

    Also... some good points in this thread about the unnecessary drudgery of a grind to get the same gold in the game not being most people's idea of fun.

  • DarLorkarDarLorkar Texarkana, TXPosts: 699Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Peer_Gynt

    Not going to vote as I refuse to blanketly impune or pardon people I do not know. Regardless of what feelings people may hold about gold selling and gold buying, the real culprit is the gaming industry themselves for making long and tedious time and money sinks and unscrupulously presenting them as game play. When you make activities and goals artificially difficult and tedious people are going to find away around them. The gold buying community are simply cutting the Gordian Knot instead of settling for what they are given.

    Finally, someone that has thought about this.  It has been going on since the first game that used gold like the games now do. And will continue as long as the dev's make games the same way.

    They then act all hurt and surprised when the game gets gold farmers and spammers.P Bull.  

    Is and always has been a easy fix, 2 of them actually. First change game design so you do not  have to farm it in the first place. And 2nd sell it themselves, regulate it, so they can get all the profit if they wish to make the same old game systems.

    As above you put a problem/puzzle before people well guess what? They will find a way to deal with it themselves to make it easier and or profitable. Human nature. Do not try to fight it, just use it sensibly.

  • ImpmonImpmon Niagara, NJPosts: 30Member

    In vanilla WOW I suggested blizzard start their own gold exchange service.  They shot me down on the official forms ignoring my idea.  I'd go on to purchase gold all the time.  Why ?  I could afford it, and didn't waste my time grinding.  I used the gold to make low level OP bg twinks. 

    The way they did it without being detected.  You'd put 10 bandages on the auction house at 200g, or whatever items they suggested & they would buy the item transferring the money.  If they ever wanted to send the cash directly via in game mail worked just as well.  I did that too mutiple times and never got in trouble.

    Guildwars 2 comes along and they did pretty much exactly what I suggested.  You buy gems in via their trading company with real money and convert those gems to in game gold.  Cutting out gold farmers entirely.  Sure they still try to sell gold but whats the point really.

    Your poll is a waste of time because someone who wants to buy gold will do so without giving a sh-- what other people think.  They do it because they can afford it.

     

     

  • MaelwyddMaelwydd CrawleyPosts: 1,123Member
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by Cramit845

    I definitely think they are Losers.  The main reasons ppl say they buy gold is, "My time is too important to farm gold", which basically means, that that person has chosen the wrong hobby.  Rather than realizing it, they support a group of people that not only hinder everyone else in the game, but also cause theft.  It's really despicable, if these people were actually moral people, they would either play the game as it was intended or find something else to take up their time.  Go game on consoles or something rather then ruining our games, thank you.

    You're only looking at one half there. Do you feel the same about those that use GW2 gems or Wildstar CREDD?

     

    Can't speak for others (or about Wildstar as I have only played 4 hours of it an uninstalled) but when I was playing GW2 I really hated the gem system, same for Neverwinter. (I guess that is why I do not play either anymore).

    My dislike of allowing external interference (excluding the players control of course) is essentially the same argument against metagaming when trying to engage in Roleplaying. Just because you the player know something, you should try to roleplay your character without the knowledge. I find it hard justifying how my character suddenly got 10,000 gold suddenly in his bank...Gods exist (in game) but holy fuck!

    To me it is like trying to play Chess with someone who every now and then adds another Queen to the board. Invalidates the point of playing and the point of continuing and sooner or later I just get to a point of not caring to play any more..

  • HorusraHorusra maryland, MDPosts: 2,578Member Uncommon
    External interference is aways there from internet speeds, rigs, addons, mouse you use...
  • MaelwyddMaelwydd CrawleyPosts: 1,123Member
    Originally posted by Horusra
    External interference is aways there from internet speeds, rigs, addons, mouse you use...

    I specified it didn't include player control.

    To simplify my point. Anything that doesn't make sense being in the game world. So gold suddenly appearing in a bank account (due to external influences) or knowing the specific weakness of a Boss by looking it up on the internet (which the character still doesn't know).

    Not sure if you understand what metagaiming is but there you go...

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,187Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Quesa

    I honestly have better things to do with my life than grind for 8 hours what I can get for 20m of RL effort.

    The bitchers and moaners about gold sellers and how cash shops have pop'd up because of this type of behavior are just spitting out anecdotal nonsense.  It's all about time management and efficiency for me.

    Regardless of whether you feel justified for doing so, you're cheating. The developer/publisher of the game doesn't sanction the activity within their game environment and you're choosing to break the rules to gain your advantage. People who don't cheat in the game aren't obligated to accept or approve of it. There is nothing anecdotal or nonsensical about the cheating or labeling the cheaters. It's not really even subjective. Either you're a cheater (illegal gold buyer) or you're not. There is very little gray area in there.

    Again, this is why sanctioned rmt in EVE, Wildstar, GW2, and Cryptic games makes much more sense. This is also why I would prefer cash shops. It means everyone has access to those features.

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,187Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Iselin

    A more interesting question would be... Other than the obvious security/safety issues, is there a difference between buying gold form a 3rd party or from the developer?

    Quite frankly, I don't think there is. So if you're going to pass judgement on the character of those who buy gold from 3rd parties, you have to apply the same criteria to those who do the same directly from developers in games like Rift for example, where you can buy items or just gold from the in-game cash shop.

    Also... some good points in this thread about the unnecessary drudgery of a grind to get the same gold in the game not being most people's idea of fun.

    It's not the same at all. For one thing, the former is cheating. There is no hedging around that. Some people don't mind being cheaters, but let's not pretend it is otherwise.

    The second difference is one of consistency and availability. The developer provides consistent universally available access. Gold sellers provide opportunistic access that depends on how much they can get that week. They aren't universally available as some players won't cheat and some players won't risk their accounts to bans or theft.

    Finally in a system where the developers don't provide access to rmt gold they set an intended balance of gold fonts and sinks. Botters/hackers/exploiters bypass the intended font rate and imbalance the amount of resources.

    Fundamentally there isn't a theoretical difference in the concept of providing access to accelerated progression or resources, but the implementation is worlds apart as is the effect.

  • HarikenHariken Brighton, MAPosts: 977Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by JOverlord
    Originally posted by loopback1199
    These days, I'm beginning to doubt that gold sellers are even third party anymore. Likely, with the unlimited amounts of gold offered up for sale on some of these sites, the company itself is using it as another outlet to rape you of your hard earned cash. If they're not, then their investors and financial officers have utterly failed to corner such a sound business model.

    Ehh im not really sure. I use to sell gold in WoW. Just by myself I could make around 300k gold  to these companies which sells for about $210. Not that hard to get either.

    I knew a few people from my eve online days that used to sell isk to 3rd party companies. They were making an extra 2k a month doing it. I thought it was wrong but they believed its only pixels on the screen and people that get mad over it are the losers. But i will say this..For all the talk over the years of this killing games or even shutting them down hasn't happened to one game yet. I think its because these game companies pull in enough money to look the other way most of the time. Sure they will ban some accounts but it has no real effect. It just shows that they are trying is all. Gold selling and buying is just another part of the genre. The choice to do it is and always will be up to the player. And i'm willing to bet more people do it than you think or these companies would go out of bussiness. It will never go away. And i didn't bother to vote on the subject. Its been part of the mmo genre since the very first game. 

  • MerklynnMerklynn FLUSHING, NYPosts: 87Member Uncommon

    Losers in my book plain and simple...

    I'm sorry but I can't stand them in my mmo period. Finding goldseller spam in my characters mailbox, splattered  messages to buy their cr@p in chat screens, personal group invites or whispers from these cretin are not a welcome sight as far as I'm concerned. If they could be simply ignored one time it would be just a minor annoyance but you block one & here comes another and so on. Like 99% of the advertisements on tv or websites I will never care about let alone support the gold spammer can be assured I don't want him in my game.

    Just knowing someone will fall for their sales pitch promising the easy way to success is sad especially since most buyers will find they were scammed by losing their accounts to "hackers". Your gold purchase encourages sellers to get more gold and the easiest way to do that is to steal it from players so let the buyers beware it's not only their account being placed in jeopardy but your friends & guild mates as well.

    I never understood it since we pay monthly subscription  fees to adventure & level up why pay someone else to do it for you. Pure laziness & definitely not something I believe should be allowed to thrive in any shape or form. Removing the sellers reduces the temptation to run for the shiny loot so yes I voted LOSERS!

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,290Member Uncommon
    Not just those games. Eq2 and eq you can buy k err kronor for err rl money and sell it to players for in game plat. Not sure if it still does but wow used tohave items and cards that could be bought for rl money and sold on the auction house.

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,606Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by Iselin

    A more interesting question would be... Other than the obvious security/safety issues, is there a difference between buying gold form a 3rd party or from the developer?

    Quite frankly, I don't think there is. So if you're going to pass judgement on the character of those who buy gold from 3rd parties, you have to apply the same criteria to those who do the same directly from developers in games like Rift for example, where you can buy items or just gold from the in-game cash shop.

    Also... some good points in this thread about the unnecessary drudgery of a grind to get the same gold in the game not being most people's idea of fun.

    It's not the same at all. For one thing, the former is cheating. There is no hedging around that. Some people don't mind being cheaters, but let's not pretend it is otherwise.

    The second difference is one of consistency and availability. The developer provides consistent universally available access. Gold sellers provide opportunistic access that depends on how much they can get that week. They aren't universally available as some players won't cheat and some players won't risk their accounts to bans or theft.

    Finally in a system where the developers don't provide access to rmt gold they set an intended balance of gold fonts and sinks. Botters/hackers/exploiters bypass the intended font rate and imbalance the amount of resources.

    Fundamentally there isn't a theoretical difference in the concept of providing access to accelerated progression or resources, but the implementation is worlds apart as is the effect.

    So you're basically saying that P2W by developer design is acceptable but P2W by 3rd party sales is not. The only difference I see is that one is gated by the willingness to take risks purchasing from unknowns and having the means to afford it and the other one is gated by just the means to afford it.

    They're both cheating. The fact that one is encouraged by developers because they profit and the other one is demonized because they don't is just a thin and hypocritical rationalization.

    They're both shortcuts to achieving what should be solely a gameplay objective and they both undermine the game system and mechanics.

Sign In or Register to comment.