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What is happening?

driver4hiredriver4hire ny, NYPosts: 78Member Uncommon

Alright maybe this is just stupid,  I was speaking with a friend about Start Citizen the other day.  Neither of us have pledged.  

 

We cannot bring ourselves to even believe that a game will come out of the studio, I mean maybe once again we both have a skewed view of what it takes to develop a game but as of today 18/6/2014 they claim to have received approximately 46.5 million dollars in funding.  WoW  46.5 million in funding.  This company could easily bring an amount of money like that to an investment firm and conservatively make 10% in a year.

 

What is stopping these people from banking that money off shore and doing exactly that for the next five years.  I would think that 46.5 million is enough money to literally produce the game that they want in less than 18 months and if I remember correctly, RSI/ star citizen started almost 2 to 2.5 years ago.(significantly less budget then)  If any of these kickstarter/crowd funded projects had any sense they would invest that money and produce games off of the gains alone.(lets not turn this into an investment/spending BS argument please)

 

We have seen indie developers produce great games with over 90% less budget in 90% less time.  What is actually happening here?

 

Maybe I'm just not seeing it from the right point of view or something or maybe it takes 300 million dollars to build a MMO and my numbers are off.    I don't know, I'm not trying to say they are robbing people but it certainly looks like a possibility.

 

I want to pledge this game and I literally want it to be everything that they say, but I cannot bring myself to do it for the reason I mentioned,  It feels to big and too good to be true so maybe someone else can steer me the right direction or  "splain it to me good"

 

 

 

 

Currently playing : World of Tanks, LoL
Waiting for: The game of my dreams
Played: Everything
Favorites being Eve, UO and SWG Pre-CU

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Comments

  • st3v3b0st3v3b0 Gainesville, FLPosts: 147Member Uncommon
    "You know nothing Jon Snow"
  • sahibsahib WarsawPosts: 19Member Common
    Go with Elite: Dangerous for now, pledge for Star Citizen later if/when they show something that you like.
  • AzzrasAzzras Loganville, GAPosts: 389Member Uncommon

    1.  You can already play part of the game via dog fighting.

    2.  If they did what you fear and put the money off shore and didn't produce a game, they would be incarcerated.

    3.  This game has way to much visibility for them to be dumb enough to try that.

    5.  There wouldn't be a place on earth they could hide from all the fans if they ripped backers off.

    5.  I like pie.

    image
  • Colt47Colt47 Naperville, ILPosts: 310Member Uncommon

    They have already released the playable dog fighting module and probably have the most open development process next to Shroud of the Avatar.   The trouble that some people are having seems more linked to expectations that the AAA publishing industry has intentionally fostered.   The majority of the time people don't hear a game announced at the start of it's development: They hear about it after the publisher feels certain that the studio is going to make an approx. deadline and is already past the three quarter completed marker.   Then the game gets hyped up by marketing to cultivate the pre-orders and start raking in early revenue from eager fans.

    There are exceptions to the above such as Duke Nukem Forever and Final Fantasy XIII Vs (now Final Fantasy XV), however those games ran into some unique issues in their development.  Final Fantasy XV got stuck in a technology switch from the PS3 cell architecture to the x86 architecture as well as requiring higher resolution textures for the next gen.  Duke Nukem Forever ran into the "development hell" scenario where multiple studios kept getting handed the project, which went basically no where.

    The one thing that is problematic with Star Citizen and other games past the initial kick start phase is with the pledging.  Is pledging simply another phase of backing a game, or a new term for pre-ordering that doesn't carry all the moral baggage pre-ordering has attached to itself?  Also, if pledging is being used to fund milestones or extra features, are we pre-ordering DLC and just legitimizing it with a different term?

  • GrimfargoGrimfargo ViennaPosts: 53Member Uncommon

    I am a big fan of the Ultima Series and of Richard Garriot as a developer. So I bought the 45$ pack for his upcoming game Shroud of the Avatar and I regret every cent I spent.

    Maybe I should have read more about it and waited a little bit longer for more informations but as it turns out SotA will be a huge money cow for Mr.Garriot and nothing more.

    Same happened to me when I bought the lifetime sub for Hellgate:London (what a rip off) or the lifetime sub for LOTRO (atleast this game is still running).

    I was a big fan of the Wing Commander games but I wont give Mr. Roberts any money before the game has been released.

    I will preorder games if I have to chance to test it (demo or open beta).

  • driver4hiredriver4hire ny, NYPosts: 78Member Uncommon

    Well, I'm certainly pleased with the responses, some reassurance really.  Thanks for that.

     

    For the one person who said they could be incarcerated for taking the money, I do not think that this would be legally possible to be honest pledging money toward something like the OP mentioned is shaky grounds.

    Your not really paying for a product, nor are you owning anything, no rights to anything.  The word "Pledge" is almost like... tithing to a religious group.  You couldn't sue a  religious group for robbing you if you openly "pledged" money for something and never saw results.  It is definitely different from buying/owning something.

    Again like everyone else mentioned they aren't out to rob us but other kickstarter/crowd funded games certainly could, isn't crowd funding at your own risk?  Maybe this is honestly what's worrying me.

     

    Thanks for the quick and relevent responses

    Currently playing : World of Tanks, LoL
    Waiting for: The game of my dreams
    Played: Everything
    Favorites being Eve, UO and SWG Pre-CU

  • TalRashaTalRasha GroningenPosts: 827Member
    Originally posted by driver4hire

    isn't crowd funding at your own risk?

    For people who pledge you mean? Yes of course. You should never pledge what you can't miss. This really is for people with disposable income.

    And not just because people might be going to run away with your money, something else could happen wich would delay (maybe indefinately) a project.

    In case of Star Citizen, I have no such fears. There is lots of visibility for things they are actually doing or organizing. Such as the starship design contest and the "playable" alpha modules. It's clear that people are actually working at this company and not sitting on the money :p

  • NaeviusNaevius Houston, TXPosts: 334Member Uncommon

    I have pledged, but I'm not very confident we'll ever see a good game emerge. And maybe no game at all. I got worried when I saw them keep adding incredibly ambitious goals.

    (Think about SWTOR and how much it cost vs the final product. Now thing about all the stuff SC has promised.)

  • BrenelaelBrenelael Warren, MEPosts: 3,996Member
    Originally posted by Naevius

    I have pledged, but I'm not very confident we'll ever see a good game emerge. And maybe no game at all. I got worried when I saw them keep adding incredibly ambitious goals.

    (Think about SWTOR and how much it cost vs the final product. Now thing about all the stuff SC has promised.)

    There is a major difference between SC and SWTOR. At least 3/4 of the overall budget for SWTOR went into Marketing and Publishing costs. These are two things SC doesn't have. When you take all of this out SWTOR probably only put about 50 million into the actual development of the game. About the same as what SC has.

     

    When you read these 100s of millions dollar budgets for AAA Publisher games you have to figure that at least 50%-75% of that money went into other costs like Marketing and Publishing. Less than half was spent on actually developing the game.

     

    Bren

    while(horse==dead)
    {
    beat();
    }

  • Stryx74Stryx74 Goose Creek, SCPosts: 65Member
    Originally posted by Brenelael

     At least 3/4 of the overall budget for SWTOR went into Marketing and Publishing costs.

      Do you have a source for this? Please post a link documenting this claim, thanks.

  • kabitoshinkabitoshin Posts: 758Member Uncommon
    I have a feeling that this persistent universe will not be what everyone is hoping, the money they have right now could make for an amazing campaign. I'm not too knowledgable but I feel like the engine they chose and the level of detail and features this game will have, will end up running out of funds. Hopefully they can pull it off I'm feeling a bit skeptical cause this sounds like a huge project.
  • demadildemadil palm harbor, FLPosts: 66Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by driver4hire

    Well, I'm certainly pleased with the responses, some reassurance really.  Thanks for that.

     

    For the one person who said they could be incarcerated for taking the money, I do not think that this would be legally possible to be honest pledging money toward something like the OP mentioned is shaky grounds.

    Your not really paying for a product, nor are you owning anything, no rights to anything.  The word "Pledge" is almost like... tithing to a religious group.  You couldn't sue a  religious group for robbing you if you openly "pledged" money for something and never saw results.  It is definitely different from buying/owning something.

    Again like everyone else mentioned they aren't out to rob us but other kickstarter/crowd funded games certainly could, isn't crowd funding at your own risk?  Maybe this is honestly what's worrying me.

     

    Thanks for the quick and relevent responses

    Actually we are. When we pledge to star citizen with our money we have paid for squadron 42 digital download and multiplayer module along with a bunch of other digital stuff. They call it a pledge but we have bought a product.

  • HarikenHariken Brighton, MAPosts: 985Member Uncommon
    Over 40 million dollars and only a dogfight sim. And how long have they been working on this?  Sorry i will never trust this crowdfunding crap for mmo to be developed. And if this game does come out, you better have a supercomputer to even run it. This whole crowdfunding/kickstarter crap is getting way out of hand and i hope the feds.get involved soon. If they have collected that much money they should be investigated and soon.
  • DarLorkarDarLorkar Texarkana, TXPosts: 708Member Uncommon

    First there are no guarantee's. 

     

    Second, people are being unrealistic. 

     

    If they get a game out in under 2 years from now, i will be amazed. But i do not doubt that they WILL put out a game of some type. It is just now all on their time line and that is like taking some kids to a store and saying go crazy,, people did just that to these guys with all the money. They said go crazy do what you have dreamed of. 

     

    Well that's whats happening, they are going to try to add all kinds of extras to the game now that they have plenty of cash and since no on is controlling the time like a dev/publishing company, they can take as long as they please.

     

    Well people sit back and be patient:P you gonna be here a long while.

  • mayito7777mayito7777 Saint Cloud, FLPosts: 636Member Uncommon
    Firefall came to mind, I pledged and then the devs turned their backs on all of its "founders" and changed the game 360 degrees. The biggest regret of my life, so I am not pledging, I will wait until the game goes live.

    want 7 free days of playing? Try this

    http://www.swtor.com/r/ZptVnY

  • BLOBtheTROLLBLOBtheTROLL BelgardePosts: 75Member
    graphic is nice , but gameplay combat sucks so far.
  • DocBrodyDocBrody EldridgePosts: 1,820Member

    so you are insinuating they have criminal intentions running away with money?

    you are "scared" but haven't even pledged?

     

    sounds like publisher endorsed badmouthing of crowdfunding.

     

    go play other space combat games then

    SWTOR Galactic Star Fighter

    X Rebirth

    Vendetta Online (the Best!)

    Battelstar Galactica Online

    Star Conflict

    Evochron Mercenary

    or download old Freelancer

     

     

  • Guardian30Guardian30 Milton, FLPosts: 5Member
    I fully agree with Azzras, and I also like pie!
  • DarwinianDarwinian Chambersburg, PAPosts: 38Member
    Originally posted by mayito7777
    Firefall came to mind, I pledged and then the devs turned their backs on all of its "founders" and changed the game 360 degrees. The biggest regret of my life, so I am not pledging, I will wait until the game goes live.

    ^ This. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

  • ApraxisApraxis RegensburgPosts: 1,515Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by driver4hire

    Alright maybe this is just stupid,  I was speaking with a friend about Start Citizen the other day.  Neither of us have pledged.  

     

    We cannot bring ourselves to even believe that a game will come out of the studio, I mean maybe once again we both have a skewed view of what it takes to develop a game but as of today 18/6/2014 they claim to have received approximately 46.5 million dollars in funding.  WoW  46.5 million in funding.  This company could easily bring an amount of money like that to an investment firm and conservatively make 10% in a year.

     

    What is stopping these people from banking that money off shore and doing exactly that for the next five years.  I would think that 46.5 million is enough money to literally produce the game that they want in less than 18 months and if I remember correctly, RSI/ star citizen started almost 2 to 2.5 years ago.(significantly less budget then)  If any of these kickstarter/crowd funded projects had any sense they would invest that money and produce games off of the gains alone.(lets not turn this into an investment/spending BS argument please)

     

    We have seen indie developers produce great games with over 90% less budget in 90% less time.  What is actually happening here?

     

    Maybe I'm just not seeing it from the right point of view or something or maybe it takes 300 million dollars to build a MMO and my numbers are off.    I don't know, I'm not trying to say they are robbing people but it certainly looks like a possibility.

     

    I want to pledge this game and I literally want it to be everything that they say, but I cannot bring myself to do it for the reason I mentioned,  It feels to big and too good to be true so maybe someone else can steer me the right direction or  "splain it to me good"

    You are to scared.. for whatever reason? Just don't pledge.. they don't need your money.

    They really already do have more than enough money to make exactly what they want.. and they will do it. It may take time, it may take some setbacks.. but it will be released. (i do have no doubts about it).

    Then.. after it is released.. read previews/reviews, read player experiences, get you informed about the game.. and if you are interested buy the game. They will still take your money. Hell.. they are a commercial game development company.. they have to sell their game at one point.

    And that is it basicly for every crowd funded game. Inform you about the developer and there reputation. You either trust their reputation, and believe in their vision and pledge, or you don't. It is really that simple.

    And $40m+ is more than enough proof that a lot of people trust in the reputation of Chris Roberts in the vision of Star Citizen.

  • razor247exrazor247ex HaifaPosts: 9Member

    I pledged for this game. The only one so far.

    And yes, I am aware that this is a "pledge", not a purchase of a finished product.

    Besides the huge credibility Chris Roberts has got for making epic stuff like Freelancer or Wing Commander, the reason behind this pledge is a call - a call that comes from gamers desperate to experience a great space adventure in their lifetime.

    I pledged not because I am trading money for goods, I pledged to fulfill a dream! (or at least try)

    If no one takes a risk, nothing will happen, and we'll keep getting shitty, innovation-less remakes for games. I'm tired of this situation, and I gave money in an attempt to change it.

    If it wasn't for people like us, this wouldn't have been possible. This game is already of epic proportions and I hope it lives up to its (and some of our) ambitions.

  • syriinxsyriinx New York, NYPosts: 1,063Member Uncommon


    If it wasn't for people like us, this wouldn't have been possible.

     

    Of course it would have been possible.

    EvE didn't need crowd funding to get made.

    Its the easiest, cheapest way possible for Roberts though. I hope the game is everything space sim fans want and then some, but this notion that innovation wont happen without crowd funding is just ridiculous.

  • ApraxisApraxis RegensburgPosts: 1,515Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by syriinx

     


    If it wasn't for people like us, this wouldn't have been possible.
     

     

    Of course it would have been possible.

    EvE didn't need crowd funding to get made.

    Its the easiest, cheapest way possible for Roberts though. I hope the game is everything space sim fans want and then some, but this notion that innovation wont happen without crowd funding is just ridiculous.

    Really? Did you played EvE on Release? It was rather shitty.. and took a few more years. And you can't compare EvE with Star Citizen.. how many mony to develop EvE they got in the beginning? maybe $5 mil.? And if not a lot of patient player played it at that point.. EvE wouldn't now what it is. Hell.. it was almost more trust as to pledge... you had to buy a shitty game from a noname developer, with no whatsoever reputation, and reviews talking of bugs all over the place.

    Of course he could made a game for a few millions(1-2.. maybe).. but what kind of game would that be? Or he could have made a game for a lot of millions, but with publisher telling him what it should be.. what kind of game would that be?

    In all honestly.. i am happy that he did the kickstarter and crowdfunding, and we get what we can now expect. And i am glad that something like kickstarter, and crowd sourcing exist.. so that experienced independent Developers can make a game they want to make without to bother with publishers and the big money.

    And as i said already.. for all people don't  trust in the reputation and vision of Chris Roberts(or any other kickstarter).. just don't ******* pledge and let it alone, no one is forcing you.. there are more than enough people trusting in the vision and reputation of Chris Robert.

  • STYNKFYSTSTYNKFYST Sacramento, CAPosts: 290Member
    Originally posted by st3v3b0
    "You know nothing Jon Snow"

    lol...dude. You know that JS will be around for a while right? Jussayin....yer agreeyin with the OP here

  • DaveyColeDaveyCole New York, NYPosts: 85Member
    Originally posted by Grimfargo

    I am a big fan of the Ultima Series and of Richard Garriot as a developer. So I bought the 45$ pack for his upcoming game Shroud of the Avatar and I regret every cent I spent.

    Maybe I should have read more about it and waited a little bit longer for more informations but as it turns out SotA will be a huge money cow for Mr.Garriot and nothing more.

    Same happened to me when I bought the lifetime sub for Hellgate:London (what a rip off) or the lifetime sub for LOTRO (atleast this game is still running).

    I was a big fan of the Wing Commander games but I wont give Mr. Roberts any money before the game has been released.

    I will preorder games if I have to chance to test it (demo or open beta).

    I feel bad for the people who paid into SotA. Garriot literally sold off his Ultima IP to EA to make a quick buck, then tried a "restart" with Tabula Rasa. I was one of the suckers who fell for it and "followed the prophet into the mountains" so to speak. Tabula Rasa was on a collision coarse with disaster and what did he do? He went into space. Literally. After running that game into the ground he tried making a company called Portalarium to develop..."social games." That's obviously not doing well, so he tries to kickstart his original IP under a new name (because he sold it) and tie this new MMO to his failing Portalarium company. All the while the man has been living in a castle...literally...and people still pay him money because of his success with the Ultima series that he no longer owns. Nostalgia hurts...

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